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That is the point you need to provide Scripture for. Not that they would be in that place and have gathered there, but that, in this end time, GOD gathered them there. Please do not offer historical references and try to apply them to the last days unless they actually clearly apply. Example, Eze 20 does not.
That is a given as it is clear prophesy.
True, then He gathers them to the land.
[/QUOTE] True again. Looks like you have only one point to focus on. That also happens to be the topic.
That might explain the crossed communication, perhaps it was another poster.
Here we go again, chapter and verse? (better not be eze 20 that I posted a commentary on that placed it as history)
He is very interested in Palestinian believers, and all believers, such as Jewish believers. He told us Israel would be there and invaded in the end. His interest did not include ordering terrorist acts such as blowing up a hotel, or etc. That would be man's idea, in this case the men forming or involved with the secular nation of Israel.
Looking at this commentary, for example we see that it is viewed as history.
Let's look at the text
Your own verses tell us the opposite of what you claim!
Yes, as your verse says, they gather THEMSELVES!
Zephaniah 2:1
No, you offered a historical text that commentaries discuss as if it were a future last days prophesy. I do not need to do anything, the claim falls flat. Your quest was to show beyond doubt that this was a last days prophesy. Thankfully we have actual last day prophesies aplenty and they would not match up with your scenario.
Israel are His people and now they are in rebellion. Only a remnant can and will be saved. In the chapter you cite it is talking about Israel.
Sorry, there is nothing clear there that places anything in the end time. What has a south field got to do with God gathering Israel in 1948??!
Sometimes we look before and after passages to get some sort of context. Some of us even look at the rest of the bible as well!
OK, two down then.
They gathered their selves. Ha. That is the context. Of course they have to be there to be invaded. That does not mean God gathered them. Some people try to suggest we ought to love and support the modern secular state of Israel as a duty to God.
Say what? Chapter and verse about the mid point of the Trib?
Who cares? They were told to gather themselves. Therefore I cannot blame God for what they did when the rebellious people did gather their little selves.
No, that is the heart of the matter of the thread. Either God gathered them already in 1948, or they gathered themselves and will face judgment there.
They were saved and followers. No comparison.
Today! The trick is that God did not gather them, they went by themselves. The judgment is still on the way.
That both happened in history and will happen again, so it depends on the verse and passage.
The gathering of the elect in Mat 24 is at the end. Not just Jews. All believers. It looks to me like that is after the Tribulation.
If you were doing more we would see it by now, no? If scholars say that things are history, we would need more than for you to suggest otherwise. Especially since the last days prophesies as far as I can tell are all pretty clear.
You have records of the taxes Joseph and Mary payed, and who made John the Baptist's clothes, etc? I am not sure we are supposed to have all events in the captivity era catalogued by someone somewhere? Is there something in Eze 20 that a commentary sees as history that you can dispute factually?
For verse 38, a different commentary says this
Of course, and that sure was not 1948! Your point?
Not at all, I just see no reason to blame it on God?
So verse 38 of what chapter?
The parts about God restoring His people are not fulfilled. The issue is you thinking that some parts about them gathering themselves are some sort of another gathering BY God.
I have no problem with a temple, or Israel being there in the end. Yes God knew they would be there. So? That does not mean He Personally gathered them there. If and when He does, all enemies will be toast.
They are not in His will, obviously. Where else could they operate but outside of His will? That does not mean that He tried to stop them from gathering in the end there. In fact He told them to gather themselves.
Not at all. They must gather because we know how it all ends. What I am wary about is that some people claim God gathered them already and the land is flowering like rose, and that God helps them win wars, and that our duty is to support Israel today, etc etc.
Having a small remnant does not mean the nation and people are blessed. Israel is a secular nation that depends on weapons of war to survive in a land that many people feel is not theirs. When God gathers them there all will know it is theirs. Not the secular Jews. Only the believers will be gathered.
Which verse are you talking about?
What prophesy? Not about GOD gathering them there. Of course they will be there.
I see. Well all Israel in the end will be saved, of course the bible does say that most of them will have already died by then. This is also called the remnant. So, what are you suggesting, that all the unsaved, unregenerate, unrepented folks in the secular nation of Israel will be saved anyhow?? Ha
Of course He can, and made the Way for that to be able to happen. Jesus did not die for nothing. I hope you are not suggesting that somehow some folks are too special and the heck with believing in Jesus??
The issue is not that works save us, they don't. Jesus saves. The folks in the OT were saved by belief He would come one day, and we are saved believing He already did come. There is not any other Way.
Great so you rest your defence on Jer 24. Then you falsely accuse other posted of lying.
