Nation born in a day in 1948?

[Davy]

Great so you rest your defence on Jer 24. Then you falsely accuse other posted of lying.
Looking at a few scholars talking about that I found this
"Jeremiah 24:6 . I will set mine eyes upon them for good. They shall serve the Lord in Babylon, under the ministry of Ezekiel, and under the patronage of Daniel and his three princely colleagues. For them shall be reserved the treasures of righteousness, once more to see their native land, and rebuild the temple, and prepare the way for the kingdom of God, and the call of the gentiles."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/jsc/jeremiah-24.html

"
The people left behind in Jerusalem thought that they had God’s approval, because they were still in their homeland, whereas the others had been punished with shameful exile. Jeremiah points out that this is not so. Those taken captive are the ‘good figs’. The shock of the captivity will awaken many of them to see their sin, repent of it and return to the Lord. God will then bring them back into their land, where they will enjoy a new and living relationship with him (4-7).
Those who remain in Jerusalem are the ‘bad figs’. They continue in their evil ways and think that by relying on Egypt they will escape the power of the Babylonians. Jeremiah tells them that, far from escaping, they will come to the most humiliating and horrible end (8-10)."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/jeremiah-24.html

"(6) I will set mine eyes upon them for good.—The state of the Jews at Babylon at the time of the return from exile was obviously far above that of slaves or prisoners. They had money (Ezra 2:69), they cultivated land, they built houses (Jeremiah 29:4; Jeremiah 29:28). Many were reluctant to leave their new home for the land of their fathers, and among these must have been the families represented at a later date by Ezra and the priests and Levites who accompanied him (Ezra 8:15). They were not subjected, as many conquered nations have been, to the misery of a second emigration to a more distant land. The victory of Cyrus manifestly brought with it every way an improvement in their condition; but even under Nebuchadnezzar they rose, as in the case of Daniel and his companions, to high honour."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/ebc/jeremiah-24.html#verse-6

Those are the first three commentaries I looked at. Your story is nowhere in the ballpark.

How funny, I'll bet those commentaries were written before... 1948.

News flash: most commentaries as ref. works treat most of the Books of the prophets as dead history. So Bible commentaries are not The Gospel, and you can find a commentary to fit just about any belief system one wants.

 

[dad]

Well there is a huge difference between how much Joseph and Mary paid in taxes (not prophesy) that some anonymous commentator saying the prophecy of Ezekiel 20 has already been fulfilled and not know when where and how it has been fulfilled. I am surprised you would resort to such a phony argument to deflect from showing when thei prophecy from Almighty God was fulfilled.

I was addressing YOUR post, not prophesy. You said this "If it is history- we would have a recorded record of it happening" Notice you did not mention prophesy there? You sais we should have a record of things if they were history.

I will agree I cannot expectr to have someone itemize how many Jews came from which country, wghat clothes they were wearing or how big their family is- buit to say that this prophecy is fulfilled and then say you don't know when is highly dishonest.

Prove it is future? That is if you can even pick a verse you claim must be future. That chapter deals in history, and near the end also seems to deal with the future also. So what verse are you talking about?

YOu keep saying scholars and commentators say this is history, but you have 100% failed to name one scholar, one commentator who is alleged to have said this nor cite when this was supposed to happen. Poor discussion tool on your part.

? When Studylight lists some 50 commentaries, who should we assume wrote them, if not people who really studied the bible?? What, you assumed they were illiterate ignoramuses?

Whoever this commentator is is allegorizing and playing fast and loose with Scripture and pretending to be able to read between the lines of a simple passage.

Nice try. The problem is that most commentaries I look at basically say the same thing. That is that this chapter is mostly history.

I never said it was 1948. But it shows that in Israel 2/3 of Jews will be killed before they recieve Jesus, ergo they have to be back in the land and regathered. Just like th ebible says.

The issue is not them being there. The issue is that some claim God gathered them there already. Not a single verse has been offered to say that. Nor commentaries even!

Blame it on God?????????????? So you believe this regathering that is taking place now- and no one can deny Jews are regathering from many nations, is against the will of God?

Define the will of God? If you mean He allows nations to exist, then of course not. If you mean do I think the way Israel today treats neighbours and lives is in the will of God, hell no.

I have neveer said Israel has been restored yet. Where you get that idea is not from my writing. Un less you are allegorizing my words like you do the Scriptures. No there is only one regathering in Gods anger and fury to make Israel pass under judgment and purge them of the rebels, these components are spoken of in Ez,, Jer. Zeph. and Isaiah as I have repeatedly posted. Because you cannot see God regathering His Covenant nation together whiule they are still in unbelief amkes your vision of the Scriptures skewed.

He knows they would gather. Any by the way, there are tons of non Jews that live there also, so what is the covenant business? God has a covenant with Palestinians, Ethiopians, Americans, Chinese, Russians etc etc? Eze 20 is history for the most part, and obviously so. If there is some part you claim is future, show the verse! Zeph tells them to gather themselves, not that He gathers them.
Zephaniah 2:1
Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;

Well the Babylonian Captivity was history when Ezekiel wrote, so God wrongly inspired Ezekiel to use future words.

Verse??

The Babylonian captivity was Israel scattered to one nation. And it was only mostly the inhabitants of Jerusalem that were taken captive- not scattered! Most Jews were left in the land.

So?

So because the date 1948 is written youy cannot accept God doing a work in your day?

That was a secular nation declaring itself and getting started with the help of terrorism. That was God's work? He knew they would go there, and even told them to go ahead and do so. That is NOT God gathering them back there that I can see.

You fulfill prophecy! Behold you scoffers and scoff! for I do a work in your day that you will not believe!

False accuser. I do not scoff at prophesy or the salvation of Israel one day at all. Nor do I call evil good.

 

[dad]

It's sad that you don't believe in the saving Power of God. And it doesn't matter whether they are still living or have already died. Every soul whether there or here will have their opportunity to hear The Gospel and believe, and be held accountable for their choice.

Jesus is the saving power of God. When Israel says uncle they will be saved.

 

[dad]

How funny, I'll bet those commentaries were written before... 1948.

News flash: most commentaries as ref. works treat most of the Books of the prophets as dead history. So Bible commentaries are not The Gospel, and you can find a commentary to fit just about any belief system one wants.

Since Studylight has a plethora of commentaries, good luck with that one.

 

[Davy]

Jesus is the saving power of God. When Israel says uncle they will be saved.

Which is the whole point when God removes their 'blindness' He put upon them, like Apostle Paul said. What you appear to not understand is that God having chosen them, and then put spiritual blindness upon them away from The Gospel, is a working that reveals God 'already' owns them, kind of like Jonah. Remember Jonah? It's clear that he was one of God's chosen elect, because God chose him to go preach to Nineveh. Jonah tried to get out of that duty, but God caused Jonah to be swallowed by a great fish, and it spit him right upon the shore in front of Nineveh.

 

[Davy]

Since Studylight has a plethora of commentaries, good luck with that one.

I use BibleSoft, and even the free version they have comes loaded with various commentaries. I use the commentaries when they have some important historical info, but I'm very careful to realize their professional 'take' on things, which is often per old traditions and not actually per Scripture.

 

[dad]

Which is the whole point when God removes their 'blindness' He put upon them, like Apostle Paul said. What you appear to not understand is that God having chosen them, and then put spiritual blindness upon them away from The Gospel, is a working that reveals God 'already' owns them, kind of like Jonah. Remember Jonah? It's clear that he was one of God's chosen elect, because God chose him to go preach to Nineveh. Jonah tried to get out of that duty, but God caused Jonah to be swallowed by a great fish, and it spit him right upon the shore in front of Nineveh.

He does not allow or put blindness on those who choose to see, such as believing Jews. Those who reject Jesus, such as the unbelieving Jews and all other peoples of course are blind. That does not mean God gathered the people back to the land of Israel. When Israel rejected their long predicted Messiah, they were in blindness.
Romans 11:25
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,
Romans 11:26
and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.So the part of Israel that does not believe is blind until Jesus comes and they repent. Any other point?

 

[dad]

I use BibleSoft, and even the free version they have comes loaded with various commentaries. I use the commentaries when they have some important historical info, but I'm very careful to realize their professional 'take' on things, which is often per old traditions and not actually per Scripture.

1948 did not wipe out older truths of the bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I was addressing YOUR post, not prophesy. You said this "If it is history- we would have a recorded record of it happening" Notice you did not mention prophesy there? You sais we should have a record of things if they were history.

Well you said it is history- so where is the history. You deflect from aanswering by hyper parsing my words.

1948 did not wipe out older truths of the bible.

No they validated that God would regather Israel back in the land in the last days.

Prove it is future? That is if you can even pick a verse you claim must be future. That chapter deals in history, and near the end also seems to deal with the future also. So what verse are you talking about?

Ez. 20 is future because the prophesy has not been fulfilled y8et- so it is still has to happen. God doesn't just kind of fulfill something He says will happen.

Verse??

Ezekiel wrote after the nation was taken captive ( not scattered as the prophesy requires) look up any reputable history of the bible or any study bible.

That was a secular nation declaring itself and getting started with the help of terrorism. That was God's work? He knew they would go there, and even told them to go ahead and do so. That is NOT God gathering them back there that I can see.

Terrorism? You think the arabs were not the original terrorists in all this? The arabs in the land were told to leave th eland because 5 nations were supposedly going to wipe out the Jews and retake the land that was granted to them. You are so blinded in your anti-zionist conspiracy that you refuse to see gods hand in all this! It seems your vision is myopic because you refuse to accept the prophecies that unabiguously declare God is going to gather them back in anger and fury and pass them under judgment. That doesn't sound like a regatheirng with Jews believing in Messiah.

Then to protect your false belief that God has no control of the events of history in 1948, you say Ezekiel is history but can't show one word of evidence showing it is fulfilled prophecy at some date in the past. Don't be so blinded by pride and th efalse thinking that God cannot bring an unbelieving Israel back to the land He covenanted with HImself to give them, because of some notion of piety.

 

[dad]

Well you said it is history- so where is the history. You deflect from aanswering by hyper parsing my words.

You said this
"If it is history- we would have a recorded record of it happening"
When people point out that not all things in the bible are itemized and included in history, that is addressing the issue. Your diversion attempt is overruled.

No they validated that God would regather Israel back in the land in the last days.

People gathering does not mean God gathered them. You think all folks at a Rolling Stone concert were gathered by God?

Ez. 20 is future because the prophesy has not been fulfilled y8et- so it is still has to happen. God doesn't just kind of fulfill something He says will happen.

Which verse in that chapter says God gathers them in the days before Israel repents and God returns? Let's check that and see if any time is involved there.

Ezekiel wrote after the nation was taken captive ( not scattered as the prophesy requires) look up any reputable history of the bible or any study bible.

Says who? (that they were to be scattered in some way that could only fit the last days)

Terrorism? You think the arabs were not the original terrorists in all this?

I do not think that God gathered the unrepentant Arabs either. So what, you think one side has a green pass from God to commit terror acts?

The arabs in the land were told to leave th eland because 5 nations were supposedly going to wipe out the Jews and retake the land that was granted to them. You are so blinded in your anti-zionist conspiracy that you refuse to see gods hand in all this!

I do not care who was 'told to leave'. The issue is the folks that were there, and whether they gathered themselves of God gathered them.

It seems your vision is myopic because you refuse to accept the prophecies that unabiguously declare God is going to gather them back in anger and fury and pass them under judgment.

False. You provided no such prophesy. Yes they will be there and yes they will be judged. That does not mean the Almighty brought them there.

Then to protect your false belief that God has no control of the events of history in 1948, you say Ezekiel is history but can't show one word of evidence showing it is fulfilled prophecy at some date in the past.

I actually pointed out that the prophest spoke of history as well as future last days. The problem is I see nothing that says there is a gathering of people BY GOD before He actually gathers them after they repent.

Don't be so blinded by pride and th efalse thinking that God cannot bring an unbelieving Israel back to the land He covenanted with HImself to give them, because of some notion of piety.

There should be Scripture to say He would do that if it were the case. The only time I see Him gather them is after He returns and they repent.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Says who? (that they were to be scattered in some way that could only fit the last days)

Says who?

So you think the scattering that took place 70-135 AD has nothing to do with Scripture?

I do not care who was 'told to leave'. The issue is the folks that were there, and whether they gathered themselves of God gathered them.

You are implying that people can do things without God allowing it. Remember Scripture says that God works ALL things according to teh counsel fo His will.

I do not think that God gathered the unrepentant Arabs either. So what, you think one side has a green pass from God to commit terror acts?

Well as God has no covenant with teh Arab peoples, this is just a strawman. And nO i never even implied God gives Israel a pass. That is you being presumnptious. Does God give you a pass to commit the sins you do?

Says who? (that they were to be scattered in some way that could only fit the last days)

And you are so blinded by the fact Israel came back (and yes The ergun and mossad had a part to play but not a massive role as you seem to imply), that you cannot see that in order for Israel tro be scattered in teh last days- they have to be regathered before that scattering!!!!!!!!!!

So why not accept Ezekiels regathering in anger to judge and purge as the regathering before the scattering? Is it because they weren't wearing priests robes and came praying and singing psalms in the early 20th century and especially after WW 2 when the whole world was actively trying to stop Jews from entering Israel? God commanded Israel to perform greater atrocities in the OT when they were in the land than anytihng th eergun and moosad and any other group did.

And if you look at all the prophecies of Israel fleeing when the antichrist enters the holy place you find out they do not scatter to many nations.

You say Ezekiel 20 was hisotry but have nor reference, now maybe it is an end times prophecy where Israel had to be regathered from the diaspora in order to be scattered again. I await your biblical evidence to provide support for this hypothesis.

 

[dad]

Says who?

So you think the scattering that took place 70-135 AD has nothing to do with Scripture?

So now you are back at 70ad. Which prophesy if any are you saying this fulfilled? Of course the fact that they would be judged and the temple destroyed was connected to Scripture. Not sure how you relate this to the topic about whether God brought them back of they came themselves?

You are implying that people can do things without God allowing it. Remember Scripture says that God works ALL things according to teh counsel fo His will.

Big difference between allowing something and doing it yourself. God allowed Hitler that does not mean He rigged the election to get him there.

Well as God has no covenant with teh Arab peoples, this is just a strawman.

His covenant is with the remnant. The rest might as well be Arab unbelievers.

And nO i never even implied God gives Israel a pass. That is you being presumnptious. Does God give you a pass to commit the sins you do?

I am saved so I have the pass. Israel is not, so they do not have any pass at all until they do get saved. Then He gathers them up, fulfills the promises made long ago to them etc.

And you are so blinded by the fact Israel came back (and yes The ergun and mossad had a part to play but not a massive role as you seem to imply), that you cannot see that in order for Israel tro be scattered in teh last days- they have to be regathered before that scattering!!!!!!!!!!

They gathered there, God knew they would. Anything else?

So why not accept Ezekiels regathering in anger to judge and purge as the regathering before the scattering?

Because that time was not this time. You failed to provide any verse to show that God gathered them in the time leading up to the Tribulation period.

Is it because they weren't wearing priests robes and came praying and singing psalms in the early 20th century and especially after WW 2 when the whole world was actively trying to stop Jews from entering Israel? God commanded Israel to perform greater atrocities in the OT when they were in the land than anytihng th eergun and moosad and any other group did.

False. God does not do atrocities. He does righteous judgment. In the ancient times, Israel had not rejected their Messiah. So God was dealing with them, leading, sometimes protecting if the obeyed, etc. In secular modern Israel that is anything but the case.

And if you look at all the prophecies of Israel fleeing when the antichrist enters the holy place you find out they do not scatter to many nations.

People flee when they need to to keep from dying. They are ALREADY IN many nations now and one assumes still will be when that trouble in Jerusalem happens! God will gather them to that land one day. (the believing remnant)

You say Ezekiel 20 was hisotry but have nor reference,

When we talk about Egypt or ancient kings that is obviously history. What you need to do is find a verse in that chapter that talks about God gathering Israel, and then place it in this modern time. Otherwise you have nothing.

now maybe it is an end times prophecy where Israel had to be regathered from the diaspora in order to be scattered again. I await your biblical evidence to provide support for this hypothesis.

? Who says anything about scattering anyone? Try to relate to the topic somehow.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So now you are back at 70ad. Which prophesy if any are you saying this fulfilled? Of course the fact that they would be judged and the temple destroyed was connected to Scripture. Not sure how you relate this to the topic about whether God brought them back of they came themselves?

Boy for someone so ignorant of teh Scriptures, you certainly seem to pretend to know a lot about them.

Luke 21:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Leviticus 26:33
King James Version

33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

Deuteronomy 28:25
King James Version

25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Deuteronomy 28:37
King James Version

37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.

Deuteronomy 28:64
King James Version

64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone

These and many others were fulfilled in 70 AD. It is known as the diaspora among the Jews. And the religious Jews know it was God who did it and the Messianic jews know 70-135 AD was the fulfilment of these prophecies among many others.

People flee when they need to to keep from dying. They are ALREADY IN many nations now and one assumes still will be when that trouble in Jerusalem happens! God will gather them to that land one day. (the believing remnant)

Yep, just like not all the Jews returned from the Babylonian exile after the Persian King Artexerxes allowed them to return. That is why Jesus has to gather them from around the world in Matt. 24.

False. God does not do atrocities. He does righteous judgment. In the ancient times, Israel had not rejected their Messiah. So God was dealing with them, leading, sometimes protecting if the obeyed, etc. In secular modern Israel that is anything but the case.

Prove it! did god give you a secret special revelation? Prove it!

False. God does not do atrocities. He does righteous judgment. In the ancient times, Israel had not rejected their Messiah. So God was dealing with them, leading, sometimes protecting if the obeyed, etc. In secular modern Israel that is anything but the case.

Killing babies? He ordered Israel to do so! Killing all the animals? He also ordered Israel to do that as well.

When we talk about Egypt or ancient kings that is obviously history. What you need to do is find a verse in that chapter that talks about God gathering Israel, and then place it in this modern time. Otherwise you have nothing.

I have you just reject it.

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

This is happening before your very eyes and you reject it, because you can only believe God does something that fits into your little concept box of what God will or will not do! No other time in past history has God regathered Israel in fury and anger to bring them into a covenant. We know it is not Egypt because He is comparing like the historical regathering.

We are done, have the last word if you wish.

 

[dad]

Boy for someone so ignorant of teh Scriptures, you certainly seem to pretend to know a lot about them.

Luke 21:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You offer that as connected to 70ad at the same time as calling others ignorant!?

Leviticus 26:33
King James Version

33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

Deuteronomy 28:25
King James Version

25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

Deuteronomy 28:37
King James Version

37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.

Deuteronomy 28:64
King James Version

64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone

These and many others were fulfilled in 70 AD. It is known as the diaspora among the Jews. And the religious Jews know it was God who did it and the Messianic jews know 70-135 AD was the fulfilment of these prophecies among many others.

So yes, one day it was prophesied they would be scattered. You bring it up, why exactly? Is this supposed to be news?

Yep, just like not all the Jews returned from the Babylonian exile after the Persian King Artexerxes allowed them to return. That is why Jesus has to gather them from around the world in Matt. 24.

Why are you talking about how they are scattered, do we not all know this? Point?

Prove it! did god give you a secret special revelation? Prove it!

? You need proof God does not tell us to commit murderous atrocities?? Do you need proof a serial killer did not hear the voice of God in his head telling him to do it also?

Killing babies? He ordered Israel to do so!

The destruction of an extremely wicked enemy was a righteous judgment from God. Who are you to question it? People that kill babies are not righteous. They murder.

I have you just reject it.

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

This is happening before your very eyes and you reject it, because you can only believe God does something that fits into your little concept box of what God will or will not do! No other time in past history has God regathered Israel in fury and anger to bring them into a covenant. We know it is not Egypt because He is comparing like the historical regathering.

We are done, have the last word if you wish.

"
Having clearly illustrated that Israel had always shown a tendency to idolatry, Ezekiel now began to apply the lessons of history to his fellow exiles in Babylon. He reminded them that as soon as the people of Israel settled in Canaan they copied the religious practices of the Canaanites (27-29). Those of Ezekiel’s day were just as idolatrous in heart and were thinking of copying the idolatrous ways of Babylon. God warns that he will not allow this to happen (30-32).
As he saved his people from Egypt, so God will save them from Babylon. He will bring them back to their homeland (33-34). Again they will pass through the wilderness, but this time God will take firm control of them. He will sort them as a shepherd sorts sheep, removing those who still want to worship idols. This time only those loyal to him will inherit the promised land (35-38).
With all their idolatrous tendencies left behind in Babylon, God’s people will worship him in holiness in Jerusalem. They will offer sacrifices that are acceptable to him (39-40). When surrounding nations see Yahweh and his people living in true holiness, they will appreciate the character of Israel’s God (41-42). The people of Israel will then have a proper understanding of God and will be ashamed of their former unfaithfulness (43-44)"
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/ezekiel-20.html#verse-27

If we were to take this as specific to these last days, there would be some other bible passages that supported that. As it is, you have chosen to interpret what some scholars see as history as applying to today specifically. Israel passed under the rod in history. It will pass again.

AFTER the passages you cited we see this in the chapter.

Ezekiel 20:39
As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God ; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
Ezekiel 20:40
For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord God , there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.
Ezekiel 20:41
I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
Ezekiel 20:42
And ye shall know that I am the Lord , when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.


The comfort and being sanctified comes after. That is when HE brings them out. So God did bring them into other lands in the past. When they rejected Jesus they got scattered big time. The time God brings them back the 'when' is when they are saved and sanctified.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You offer that as connected to 70ad at the same time as calling others ignorant!?

Having clearly illustrated that Israel had always shown a tendency to idolatry, Ezekiel now began to apply the lessons of history to his fellow exiles in Babylon. He reminded them that as soon as the people of Israel settled in Canaan they copied the religious practices of the Canaanites (27-29). Those of Ezekiel’s day were just as idolatrous in heart and were thinking of copying the idolatrous ways of Babylon. God warns that he will not allow this to happen (30-32).
As he saved his people from Egypt, so God will save them from Babylon. He will bring them back to their homeland (33-34). Again they will pass through the wilderness, but this time God will take firm control of them. He will sort them as a shepherd sorts sheep, removing those who still want to worship idols. This time only those loyal to him will inherit the promised land (35-38).
With all their idolatrous tendencies left behind in Babylon, God’s people will worship him in holiness in Jerusalem. They will offer sacrifices that are acceptable to him (39-40). When surrounding nations see Yahweh and his people living in true holiness, they will appreciate the character of Israel’s God (41-42). The people of Israel will then have a proper understanding of God and will be ashamed of their former unfaithfulness (43-44)"
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/ezekiel-20.html#verse-27

You can still have the last word but I can't let this stay without comment.

Study light is guilty of reinterpreting Scripture and history! None of what they comment on took place in the return from exile to Babylon.

1. they were not scattered among the nations.
2. They were not regathered in gods fury and anger.
3. The rebels were not purged.
4. Israel was not brought into teh bond of the old covenant- they already were in it!
5. Israel was exiled to Babylon because they violated the Sabbath land rest!

Sorry but you may accept it, but kind of close is not good enough when looking to see fulfilment of prophecy.

Babylon doesn't fit the prophecy which is why it is future!

We demand that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of Messiah exactly but yet you are willing to just be kind of close with other prophecies?? That is being a dishonest student of Srfipture.

AFTER the passages you cited we see this in the chapter.

And if you had a ru8dimentary knowledge of English Grammar (same rules apply to the Hebrew here) you would know that verse 39 by its construct forms a new line of thought.

 

[dad]

You can still have the last word but I can't let this stay without comment.

Study light is guilty of reinterpreting Scripture and history! None of what they comment on took place in the return from exile to Babylon.

1. they were not scattered among the nations.

So the commentary must be wrong because it does not use 'scattered' in the extreme total way you want it to be used. It has to be 'all' nations meant here, not just some, so we can make this look like it only could fit 1948.

2. They were not regathered in gods fury and anger.

So God had no fury or anger anytime but this modern age? We must assume that because the word fury was used it has to be dealing with modern times?

3. The rebels were not purged.

How would you know who died and who was purged then? Obviously a lot of people probably died before after and during that captivity. But that cannot count for you, it has to be the end time. Yet there is nothing in any of those verses to indicate that at all.

4. Israel was not brought into teh bond of the old covenant- they already were in it!

"I will bring you into the bond of the covenant — You shall be placed under the same obligations as before, and acknowledge your selves bound; ye shall feel your obligation, and live according to its nature."
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/acc/ezekiel-20.html#verse-37
I am not sure we would say that the modern secular nation has been under the same obligations as ancient Israel!

5. Israel was exiled to Babylon because they violated the Sabbath land rest!

For one reason, yes...so what? That does not mean secular Israel obeys the old laws.

Then as you ignored, it says in the chapter near the end when it does start talking about the future..

Ezekiel 20:39
As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God ; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.
Ezekiel 20:40
For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord God , there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.
Ezekiel 20:41
I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.
Ezekiel 20:42
And ye shall know that I am the Lord , when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.
There are no offerings in Israel today and none accepted.
God is not sanctified in Israel today.

And if you had a ru8dimentary knowledge of English Grammar (same rules apply to the Hebrew here) you would know that verse 39 by its construct forms a new line of thought.

Right and that would be it then starts talking about the future!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So God had no fury or anger anytime but this modern age? We must assume that because the word fury was used it has to be dealing with modern times?

Foolish statement! Anyone who reads the bible knows how silly this straw man is.

So the commentary must be wrong because it does not use 'scattered' in the extreme total way you want it to be used. It has to be 'all' nations meant here, not just some, so we can make this look like it only could fit 1948.

Well scattered in the way I use it is the standard normal way it is used when there is no modifier in the statement.

Another useless rabbit trail BTW this verb is in the niphal so is defined to be strewn ABROAD- MEANING WIDE RANGING!

How would you know who died and who was purged then? Obviously a lot of people probably died before after and during that captivity. But that cannot count for you, it has to be the end time. Yet there is nothing in any of those verses to indicate that at all.

Individually? NO! Nationally we know it is not accomplished.

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

ReaD THE VERSE CAREFUYLLY THIS TIME. THE ANSWER IS AS PLAIN AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE!

For one reason, yes...so what? That does not mean secular Israel obeys the old laws.

Being exiled is different to being scattered aborad!

Really how many of these gnats are you going to keep straining at? Does your anti-semitism run so deep that you refuse to accept Isarael is back in the land in unbelief as Scripture plainly says?

Then as you ignored, it says in the chapter near the end when it does start talking about the future..

I did not ignore but addressed this. You make it a point of argument simply because you appear to lack grammatical skills. Verse 39 starts a new thought. It is not connected to 38 other than to who as a nationality is being addressed.

In case yo uhaven't learned this yet, many many many chapters of Scripture speak of differing time frames within the one chapter.

 

[dad]

Foolish statement! Anyone who reads the bible knows how silly this straw man is.

Yet God dealt with Israel often and was angry. You cannot limit it to the end time every time the word angry or wrath was used.

Well scattered in the way I use it is the standard normal way it is used when there is no modifier in the statement.

That does not rule out scattered into Babylon and some surrounding countries does it?

Another useless rabbit trail BTW this verb is in the niphal so is defined to be strewn ABROAD- MEANING WIDE RANGING!

Brown-Driver-Briggs'
1) to scatter, be dispersed, be scattered

1a) (Qal) to be dispersed, be scattered

1b) (Niphal)

1b1) to be scattered

1b2) to be spread abroad

1c) (Hiphil) to scatter

1d) Hithpael) scatter

2) (Qal) to flow, overflow

3) to break

3a) (Polel) to shatter

3b) (Pilpel) to dash to pieces

Strong's
A primitive root; to dash in pieces, literally or figuratively (especially to disperse): - break (dash, shake) in (to) pieces, cast (abroad), disperse (selves), drive, retire, scatter (abroad), spread abroad.

So Israel was dashed apart and scattered, That does not have to refer to the end.
Here is a commentary speaking of this

"
He warned them that if they persisted in their disobedience and idolatry he would scatter them among foreign nations. He would leave them to harm themselves by following heathen customs such as child sacrifice (23-26).
Verses 27-44


Past mistakes must not be repeated (20:27-44)

Having clearly illustrated that Israel had always shown a tendency to idolatry, Ezekiel now began to apply the lessons of history to his fellow exiles in Babylon. He reminded them that as soon as the people of Israel settled in Canaan they copied the religious practices of the Canaanites (27-29). Those of Ezekiel’s day were just as idolatrous in heart and were thinking of copying the idolatrous ways of Babylon. God warns that he will not allow this to happen (30-32).
As he saved his people from Egypt, so God will save them from Babylon. He will bring them back to their homeland (33-34). Again they will pass through the wilderness, but this time God will take firm control of them. He will sort them as a shepherd sorts sheep, removing those who still want to worship idols. This time only those loyal to him will inherit the promised land (35-38).
With all their idolatrous tendencies left behind in Babylon, God’s people will worship him in holiness in Jerusalem.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/bbc/ezekiel-20.html#verse-1
You cannot take this to be end time and especially relevant to the end time.

Individually? NO! Nationally we know it is not accomplished.

The commentary talked about how God weeded the rebels out of the nation so that they never made it back to Jerusalem.

Being exiled is different to being scattered aborad!

You added the word abroad, I missed that in the bible?

Really how many of these gnats are you going to keep straining at? Does your anti-semitism run so deep that you refuse to accept Isarael is back in the land in unbelief as Scripture plainly says?

Don't be a sore loser.

I did not ignore but addressed this. You make it a point of argument simply because you appear to lack grammatical skills. Verse 39 starts a new thought. It is not connected to 38 other than to who as a nationality is being addressed.

Well, it does start to look to the future so that seems to make sense. The stuff before is apparently historical.

In case yo uhaven't learned this yet, many many many chapters of Scripture speak of differing time frames within the one chapter.

Yes and it is not rocket science to see when the change happens. Here you seek to interject a future context into history. That would be bad enough, except in this case you have nothing in all the bible, and always resort to the few verses of history in Eze 20 as if that were your great proof and you rest your whole case on it. That is why you won't admit the obvious.

 

[Davy]

He does not allow or put blindness on those who choose to see, such as believing Jews.

By your statement above you have completely changed... what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about God having blinded Paul's brethren.

GOD Himself is Who blinded them; they did not do it upon themselves. That means they are in ignorance and not accountable yet, like Apostle Paul once was when he was following the Pharisees in hunting down Christians.

 

[Davy]

1948 did not wipe out older truths of the bible.

That's a totally illogical statement.