New and old - the meaning of this from the greek text

[Jay Ross]

I have been considering this verse in light of the teaching of Christ, and have pondered on its meaning deeply.

Matthew 13:52: –– Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

I wonder if other members can provide an acceptable explanation as to what is meant by the “new and old.” from the Greek Text

 

[Jay Ross]

I was wondering if a better paraphrase of the verse would be, "who brings out of his treasure something that is refurbished yet very old."

 

[bbyrd009]

I wonder if other members can provide an acceptable explanation as to what is meant by the “new and old.” from the Greek Text

i'm not a Bible scholar, but i see a correlation in a discussion i had recently about keeping milk and meat separate, how that means one thing to a Jew, and another to a Christian--or maybe nothing to a Christian, dunno--and then still another thing to, apparently, only me, as i strangely can find no references online to my pov there; it is something "new" iow (although i seriously doubt i invented it tbh)

even though it was kind of shared and brought out a bit more in "eating meat offered to idols" i guess (the NT equivalent imo)

 

[DPMartin]

I have been considering this verse in light of the teaching of Christ, and have pondered on its meaning deeply.

Matthew 13:52: –– Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

I wonder if other members can provide an acceptable explanation as to what is meant by the “new and old.” from the Greek Text

consider first "every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven" first one must be instructed by who? who knows the Kingdom of Heaven?

and wouldn't you think that Jesus knows of what was to transpire years in the future concerning writings that reveal the truth of such things by those that are His? take even Paul who wrote much of the NT, concerning the relationship with the Torah and Christ. much of what wasn't understood in the OT is now revealed because of the fulfillment in Christ which is considered new in respect to the Torah.

 

[bbyrd009]

nice, but i suggest that that may (also?) be perceived differently, if the "new" is considered to be right then, in Christ's era...
when did logical thought rise? - Google Search

every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven are--imo inarguably--writing from a perspective...other than that of logic, which was new then.

didn't mean to change the subject, your p just showed me how Scripture can be interpreted logically (new) or dialectically--the pov from which It is written--(old)

i'm also led to note how...beauti~fully this serves to oh what is the phrase make the seen unseen, make whatever hidden from the wise, what is it "I thank you Father that you have hidden" ah ya, these things crap what are those things...ha, they are not precisely defined, hidden also, we get examples. Something about not heeding miracles. somethingsomething amazing how ppl can be misled, and how even historical examples from hindsight are not heeded. several are coming to mind, Lincoln and Kennedy had one thing in common lol

and an amazingly long list of (otherwise irrelevant) things in common, as well
who needs fiction
(if this is too clear, someone pls let me know
also, if someone could interpret, that would be nice too :))

 

[Job]

Matthew 13
52 Then He said to them, “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”


I believe Jesus is referencing a collection of new scriptures that shine a light on the old, which bring about a better understanding of God and His ways.


Just a thought...

.

 

[Jay Ross]

If we consider that what has been refurbished, yet is still an ancient covenant, is a reference to the Salvation covenant that God has will all of mankind and that that covenant is from the beginning of time for mankind, from the very moment that God breathed life into Adam, then Jesus did not come to refurbish the "Old" covenant with a "New" covenant that many believe is the case.

The "Old" and the "New" covenant is with the House of Israel, and is better described as a covenant of a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation Covenant, which will be renewed with the House of Israel in our near future after the Armageddon event,when God judges all the kings of the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary in Jerusalem, after which, Paul tells us, all of Israel will be saved.

So the Kingdom of Heaven will be found through God's Salvation Covenant with all of the peoples of the Earth and that this Covenant will be explained to all of the Peoples of the earth by a kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation who will be shortly a redeemed people and from the House of Israel.

So there will be a new age of "scribes" who have a better understanding of the Things of the Kingdom of Heaven who will teach people about a Salvation Covenant of redemption and will lead people into becoming a part of the Kingdom of God during the Age of Harvest in the Millennium Age.

 

[Jun2u]

If we consider that what has been refurbished, yet is still an ancient covenant, is a reference to the Salvation covenant that God has will all of mankind and that that covenant is from the beginning of time for mankind, from the very moment that God breathed life into Adam, then Jesus did not come to refurbish the "Old" covenant with a "New" covenant that many believe is the case.

The "Old" and the "New" covenant is with the House of Israel, and is better described as a covenant of a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation Covenant, which will be renewed with the House of Israel in our near future after the Armageddon event,when God judges all the kings of the earth at the end of the 2,300 years of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary in Jerusalem, after which, Paul tells us, all of Israel will be saved.

So the Kingdom of Heaven will be found through God's Salvation Covenant with all of the peoples of the Earth and that this Covenant will be explained to all of the Peoples of the earth by a kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation who will be shortly a redeemed people and from the House of Israel.

So there will be a new age of "scribes" who have a better understanding of the Things of the Kingdom of Heaven who will teach people about a Salvation Covenant of redemption and will lead people into becoming a part of the Kingdom of God during the Age of Harvest in the Millennium Age.

Can you elaborate on the meaning of the House of Israel?

I am not aware there is a teaching of a millennium kingdom other than Revelation 20 which does not teach a millennium age. Can you direct me to Scriptures which teach a thousand year reign of Christ?

 

[Jay Ross]

Can you elaborate on the meaning of the House of Israel?

I am not aware there is a teaching of a millennium kingdom other than Revelation 20 which does not teach a millennium age. Can you direct me to Scriptures which teach a thousand year reign of Christ?

The House of Israel includes all the descendant tribes of the sons of Jacob still existing at the time of the Armageddon event, i.e. Israel as God renamed him.

With respect to Christ's Millennium Reign, there are many scriptures that make mention of his reign during the last age. In Daniel 7:13-14 speaks of the Son of man, i.e. Christ, being given dominion over all of the people of the earth just after the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are judged and allowed to live for a season and a little while. In Daniel 2:44 we are told that during the time of the kings of the fifth segment that God Himself will establish his Everlasting Kingdom and this Kingdom will be given to Christ to Reign over during the last age before the GWT judgement. This age is just over a thousand years in length.

After the end of the last age for mankind, Christ will return the Kingdom back to God to reign over. Rev 21-22?

 

[bbyrd009]

cantcha just see it, "To all Earthicans; the Millennium will be ending on Friday" lol

 

[ScottA]

I have been considering this verse in light of the teaching of Christ, and have pondered on its meaning deeply.

Matthew 13:52: –– Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

I wonder if other members can provide an acceptable explanation as to what is meant by the “new and old.” from the Greek Text

1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

 

[ScottA]

Can you elaborate on the meaning of the House of Israel?

I am not aware there is a teaching of a millennium kingdom other than Revelation 20 which does not teach a millennium age. Can you direct me to Scriptures which teach a thousand year reign of Christ?

The better understanding comes from the passage: "a time, times, and half a time."

In this word picture of the same periods of time as those broken out into seven, here it is most concise. Nonetheless, the subject is time - not some of it, but all of it. Now then, rather than getting hung up on the seven ages and thinking that as the clock continues to tick, that surely there is one yet to come - look to the matter as "a time" meaning all of time; as "times" meaning those times of the first Adam and the natural man, and also those times of the Last Adam, the firstborn of the spirit and those who are in Him also born [again] of the spirit; and as "half a time" meaning the Light following "the evening and the morning." This is the whole matter.

As for the term "millennium" or "a thousand years", just as is the term "seven", it is the translation of an eternal matter which occurred "in the twinkling of and eye" "before the foundation of the world", expressed within the finite realm of created time, for the sake of primeval explanations - they are all word pictures, nothing more.

The seventh angel sounds. What time is it?

 

[Jay Ross]

The better understanding comes from the passage: "a time, times, and half a time."

In this word picture of the same periods of time as those broken out into seven, here it is most concise. Nonetheless, the subject is time - not some of it, but all of it. Now then, rather than getting hung up on the seven ages and thinking that as the clock continues to tick, that surely there is one yet to come - look to the matter as "a time" meaning all of time; as "times" meaning those times of the first Adam and the natural man, and also those times of the Last Adam, the firstborn of the spirit and those who are in Him also born [again] of the spirit; and as "half a time" meaning the Light following "the evening and the morning." This is the whole matter.

As for the term "millennium" or "a thousand years", just as is the term "seven", it is the translation of an eternal matter which occurred "in the twinkling of and eye" "before the foundation of the world", expressed within the finite realm of created time, for the sake of primeval explanations - they are all word pictures, nothing more.

The seventh angel sounds. What time is it?

@ScottA, as usual you are not actually addressing the questions posed but have reverted to your usual message which you claim is a spiritual message that only you know about.

In Daniel 7:25 we have a" time times and half a time" based on the Aramaic which also has the same meaning as H:5708 and corresponds to a period of time which is three and a half years long, which will occur after Satan is released, after being locked up in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years, during the little while period before he is captured and dispatched into the lake of Fire.

The second occurrence of a "time, times and half a time" is found in Daniel 12:7 which is in response as to the question posed by Daniel, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" where the Hebrew Root embedded in the Hebrew word is H:4150 which has embedded in it the meaning of a "season"/an age which is a little longer than a thousand years. To understand the time periods we have to consider that the time periods described are in the reverse order of when they will return.

The starting point for this "time, times and half a time" is that there is half a time/age from when Daniel asked the question, until the coming of Christ, two times/ages when Israel will be scattered to the four corners of the earth and God walks contrary to the people of Israel and the last time/Age when God's everlasting Kingdom exists here on the earth.

The end comes when Satan believes that he has shattered the "powers" of the Saints in his last push to become the "king" over all of the earth and a deity to boot.

But this is getting way off topic of the original OP of what is the message being conveyed in Matthew 13:52 in the original Geek text which is simply translated as "new and old" in most English translations.

Jun2u's question was a great question concerning the scriptural teaching about a Millennium Age where Christ will reign. I believe that I had answered that question.

ScottA, if you can add to everyone's understanding of what Christ was referring to with the three Greek words, “καινὰ καὶ παλαιά.”, then please feel free to post, otherwise build yourself a sand pit in which you can play, by yourself without mudding the waters, so to speak, for everybody else.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA, as usual you are not actually addressing the questions posed but have reverted to your usual message which you claim is a spiritual message that only you know about.

In Daniel 7:25 we have a" time times and half a time" based on the Aramaic which also has the same meaning as H:5708 and corresponds to a period of time which is three and a half years long, which will occur after Satan is released, after being locked up in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years, during the little while period before he is captured and dispatched into the lake of Fire.

The second occurrence of a "time, times and half a time" is found in Daniel 12:7 which is in response as to the question posed by Daniel, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" where the Hebrew Root embedded in the Hebrew word is H:4150 which has embedded in it the meaning of a "season"/an age which is a little longer than a thousand years. To understand the time periods we have to consider that the time periods described are in the reverse order of when they will return.

The starting point for this "time, times and half a time" is that there is half a time/age from when Daniel asked the question, until the coming of Christ, two times/ages when Israel will be scattered to the four corners of the earth and God walks contrary to the people of Israel and the last time/Age when God's everlasting Kingdom exists here on the earth.

The end comes when Satan believes that he has shattered the "powers" of the Saints in his last push to become the "king" over all of the earth and a deity to boot.

That is all fine, but it must be discerned spiritually. But obviously, you are no friend to the spirit...'cause you criticize every time I bring it up, and therefore miss the point and the understanding.

But this is getting way off topic of the original OP of what is the message being conveyed in Matthew 13:52 in the original Geek text which is simply translated as "new and old" in most English translations.

Jun2u's question was a great question concerning the scriptural teaching about a Millennium Age where Christ will reign. I believe that I had answered that question.

ScottA, if you can add to everyone's understanding of what Christ was referring to with the three Greek words, “καινὰ καὶ παλαιά.”, then please feel free to post, otherwise build yourself a sand pit in which you can play, by yourself without mudding the waters, so to speak, for everybody else.

It is not off topic, but answers the prophecy directly.

Correction: Christ "does" reign, even now...yes, with those who "were" resurrected with Him, and reign with Him as Priests. You really need to work on proper tense.

As for "mudding" the waters - that is the way I found them. Of course, there you were.

 

[Jay Ross]

@ScottA why not go and trash another thread, as I am sick of your pious belief that you have the only "true" spiritual understanding of what is written in scripture given to you by the spirit.

Sadly my gifts of the Spirit associated with the Holy Spirit does not respond to your expressed views which you claim is given to you through spiritual discernment.

I am sure that you are a "Good" servant of the man who goes away to receive a kingdom, but I would rather be the "Wicked" servant as then I would be doing the work of Christ demonstrating the right understanding about the expectations of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Good day to you sir, and please close the door as you leave.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA why not go and trash another thread, as I am sick of your pious belief that you have the only "true" spiritual understanding of what is written in scripture given to you by the spirit.

Sadly my gifts of the Spirit associated with the Holy Spirit does not respond to your expressed views which you claim is given to you through spiritual discernment.

I am sure that you are a "Good" servant of the man who goes away to receive a kingdom, but I would rather be the "Wicked" servant as then I would be doing the work of Christ demonstrating the right understanding about the expectations of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Good day to you sir, and please close the door as you leave.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Luke 6:22
Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake.

Matthew 8:29
And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

...You should have seen these things coming.

 

[bbyrd009]

The end comes when Satan believes that he has shattered the "powers" of the Saints in his last push to become the "king" over all of the earth and a deity to boot.

nice post for the most part, couldn't like it bc of the judgement, no offense. Your reflection of "3.5" may likely have some relevance too, even if it is the understanding of those on a...um, wider path.

for now i would like to object to "Saints" up there, for the simple reason that your characterization of them up there does not seem to fit the manner in which all of the Saints come to a Revelation of christ; iow, would making that singular rather than plural be...um, verboten, in your opinion?

The end comes when Satan believes that he has shattered the "powers" of the Saint in his last push to become the "king" over all of the mind, kingdom, world that i personally inhabit, not sure what v we are looking at here, but iow an extraction of that v that would fit.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe that I had answered that question.

Hitler fulfilled every qualification for a Christian in order to be "saved" too, bro

i mean, no offense, perhaps we just aren't aware of who you are! :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Christ "does" reign, even now

i really like the new reflection of "3 1/2" you gave earlier, that was awesome btw

 

[Jay Ross]

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Luke 6:22
Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake.

Matthew 8:29
And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

...You should have seen these things coming.

So ScottA you acknowledge whom you serve as the "Good Servant."