New blood covenant and new covenant to Israel and Judah

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CoreIssue

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So, @CoreIssue, are you saying that the law is not written on the hearts and minds of Gentiles in the New Covenant?

Also, it seems to me that both 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 and Hebrews 8:8-10 are both speaking of the same covenant, identified as the New Covenant.
No they are not.

Blood covenant ends at the rapture when Christ returns. The new covenant to the houses of Judah and Israel then begin and go through the MK.

If you disagree with that and tell me what return is Christ talking about when he says it will then end?
 

CoreIssue

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'For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,
That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread:
And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said,

"Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you:
this do in remembrance of me."

After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying,
"This cup is the New testament (
covenant) in My blood:
this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till He come.

(1 Corinthians 11:23)

Hello @CoreIssue,

Please consider,

'And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling,
that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
'
(Hebrews 12:24)
“This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

So what covenant is he talking about that will end?
* The covenant which the Lord Jesus is referring to, in the quotation given by Paul, is The New Covenant, for Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.'

(Romans 11:26-27)

'Now the God of peace,
that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep,
through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do His will,
working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight,
through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.'

(Heb 13:20-21)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
'For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,
That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread:
And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said,

"Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you:
this do in remembrance of me."

After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying,
"This cup is the New testament (
covenant) in My blood:
this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till He come.

(1 Corinthians 11:23)

Hello @CoreIssue,

Please consider,

'And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling,
that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
'
(Hebrews 12:24)

* The covenant which the Lord Jesus is referring to, in the quotation given by Paul, is The New Covenant, for Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.'

(Romans 11:26-27)

'Now the God of peace,
that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep,
through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do His will,
working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight,
through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.'

(Heb 13:20-21)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

farouk

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'For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,
That the Lord Jesus the same night in which He was betrayed took bread:
And when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said,

"Take, eat: this is My body, which is broken for you:
this do in remembrance of me."

After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying,
"This cup is the New testament (
covenant) in My blood:
this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew the Lord's death till He come.

(1 Corinthians 11:23)

Hello @CoreIssue,

Please consider,

'And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling,
that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
'
(Hebrews 12:24)

* The covenant which the Lord Jesus is referring to, in the quotation given by Paul, is The New Covenant, for Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.'

(Romans 11:26-27)

'Now the God of peace,
that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep,
through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do His will,
working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight,
through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.'

(Heb 13:20-21)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Wonderful verses; and I do believe that in the wisdom of God so much profitable and encouraging doctrine and truth can be explored and be made the subject of exhortation, with regard to the Lord's Supper. (Also: Matthew 26; Luke 22; Mark 14; Acts 2.42).
 

Jay Ross

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'And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling,
that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
'
(Hebrews 12:24)

You quoted the traditional understanding of this verse and is as translated into the English language?

However, in Matthew 13:52, Jesus said, "Therefore every scribe instructed in the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure what is refurbished and yet also ancient, i.e. from the time of Adam."

In this one verse, Jesus is suggesting that He is bringing a covenant that has been refurbished through Him but which is still ancient in that the same covenant was in force even during the time of Adam.

As such, the Mt Sinai covenant, which is referred within "Christian" circles as being the "Old Covenant," is not the ancient Covenant that Christ came to refurbish to make it better. The covenant that Christ came to refurbish is better known as the Covenant of Salvation. This covenant has over time been modified by the changes to the process by which salvation was obtainable.

In Hebrews 12:24, is the writer actually making reference to the Salvation Covenant or to the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and God's possession among the Nations, covenant which Israel rebelled against even while still at Mt Sinai, but which God in Jeremiah said that He would make like new again in the future with the House of Israel and Judah? I am not sure that Hebrews 12:24 is very clear on this point.

Now we know that Jesus is the mediator of the refurbished form of the covenant and that both are the newest in question. The Jeremiah 31:31ff refurbishment has not happened yet to the Mt Sinai "Old" Covenant.

Shalom
 
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charity

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Hello @Jay Ross,

I thank you for your post, and thank God for the fact that I had to really consider the points you have made in the light of His Word, and that is always a valuable exercise, bringing light and joy in the knowledge of His provision revealed within it's pages.

" Regarding the promises of God you refer to, made to Adam, to Noah, and also to Abraham in Genesis 15, I found that they were covenants of promise, which required no obligation on the part of one party, God Himself being the only party covenanting, they being unconditional. So no mediator was required for them. That is not so for the Mosaic covenant at Sinai, for which Moses was the mediator, on the basis of the blood of the sacrifices offered. It is this covenant which is to be replaced by a new covenant, of which our Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator, His own blood being the blood of the covenant made. It will be made with the children of Israel, as the old covenant was.

* During the Acts period, gentiles were able to benefit from part of the new covenant, and that was the forgiveness of sins, but the remainder of the terms of the covenant await it's institution, at the coming of Christ. For Israel failed to acknowledge Christ as their Messiah and Lord, and so the New Covenant is now in suspension, awaiting that coming day.

* Hebrews chapter eight and Jeremiah 31:31, describe the covenant in question in Hebrews 12:24 sufficiently I believe, so that there need be no misunderstanding.

* The promise made to believers in this dispensation (ie., Titus 1:2 & 2 Timothy 1:9) were made with Christ, before the foundation of the world, so the believer is 'complete' in Him. Praise God! Mediated by Him, on the basis of His all-sufficient sacrifice, so all is secure and sure.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you again, Jay,
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 

Jay Ross

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Hello @charity

This can be a difficult subject to get our heads/laughing matter around.

The Priesthood operating in Israel prior to Mt Sinai, was after the pattern of Melchizedek where the princes of the respective tribes were the "High" Priests of that respective tribe. In the covenant at Mt Sinai, before Israel rebelled, God was making all of Israel a kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations in that covenant. After the rebellion against God and Moses pleading on behalf of Israel, God relented from wanting to destroy Israel and start again with a new people derived through Moses and entered into a new covenant with Moses known as the Mosaic Covenant which drew much from the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations, but with one change, all of Israel would no longer be Priests serving God, only the tribe of Levi would be priest and then only the descendants of Aaron would act as the High Priests and be responsible for the offering of sacrifices to sanctify the nation for their iniquities. It is my view that the Mosaic Covenant had a sun set clause embedded within it, such that when Christ came, and offered up His life for all the sins of the world, the instigated Mosaic priesthood would no longer have a part to play in the redemption process through the offering up of animal sacrifices for the sins of people. Christ became the new (neos G:3501) mediator for all the nations of the earth.

Now in the second commandment is imbedded the reason for the scattering of Israel to all the four corners of the earth. Israel was scattered because, although they were given 490 years prior to the first advent of Christ, they would not repent of their idolatrous worship, and the consequences of not repenting of their idolatrous worship, their iniquities of the first two ages of the fathers were visited upon their children and the children's children for a further two ages. As we read the OT we see that God keeps remining the nation of Israel that even though they had rebelled against God's statues and continually sinned against God, that at the end of the visitation of their sins against the nation of Israel, if they repented and turned once more to Him, that He would hear their cries and redeem them once more into His purposes.

Because of Israel's continuous idolatrous behaviour, they had rejected God. Because they were rejecting God, they would not nor could not accept God's offer of redemption through the acts of His Son who came at the very time that their iniquities began its visitation upon their children at the beginning of the third age of the existence of Israel. As presented in Daniel.9:24, after the period of grace of 490 years, God intended to have the redemption process changed such that the sacrifice of His son on the Cross would now suffice for the redemption of all sin from that point onwards.

Jesus during His ministry, acknowledged that some of Abraham's descendants would return to the land of Canaan, (Parables concerning the Fig tree), in their own strength during the fourth age of their existence and used that budding of new leaves of Israel as a sign and indicator of the beginning of the seventh age of the Ages. Around this time, Christ indicated that the returned descendants would attempt to build a third temple in Jerusalem, on the site where Solomon built his temple, but that they would not have the means to complete this task and that nations would come up against Israel and Jerusalem against which He would fight and Judge which would be visible from Jerusalem. Christ also warned Israel that if they did not regain their saltiness at that time that God would throw them out onto the dung heap even though God's prophetic words suggested otherwise.

In the Parable of the Pound, Christ indicated that Israel, at that time, will declare that they no longer want Satan to be king over them. That they will seek out God's/Christ's terms of peace.

The requirement of seeking out God's redemption has not been made redundant, but the process whereby we are redeemed has been changed such that animal sacrifices are no longer required nor acceptable unto the Lord. That went immediately after Christ rose from the dead.

The Salvation process/covenant has not been done away with such that there is a need for a new covenant, however the process where by redemption is gained has been refurbished/refreshed (kaineous, G:2537) through the better promises that it has gained.

After Armageddon in our near future, God will make like new again, with a few tweaks, the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations covenant and will teach Israel, where they live scattered throughout the world, about the things of the Heavenly Kingdom that at that time will be established here on the earth.

This is God's Glory being manifested in His people.

Shalom
 

charity

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Hello @charity

This can be a difficult subject to get our heads/laughing matter around.

The Priesthood operating in Israel prior to Mt Sinai, was after the pattern of Melchizedek where the princes of the respective tribes were the "High" Priests of that respective tribe. In the covenant at Mt Sinai, before Israel rebelled, God was making all of Israel a kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations in that covenant. After the rebellion against God and Moses pleading on behalf of Israel, God relented from wanting to destroy Israel and start again with a new people derived through Moses and entered into a new covenant with Moses known as the Mosaic Covenant which drew much from the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and God's Possession among the nations, but with one change, all of Israel would no longer be Priests serving God, only the tribe of Levi would be priest and then only the descendants of Aaron would act as the High Priests and be responsible for the offering of sacrifices to sanctify the nation for their iniquities. It is my view that the Mosaic Covenant had a sun set clause embedded within it, such that when Christ came, and offered up His life for all the sins of the world, the instigated Mosaic priesthood would no longer have a part to play in the redemption process through the offering up of animal sacrifices for the sins of people. Christ became the new (neos G:3501) mediator for all the nations of the earth.

Now in the second commandment is imbedded the reason for the scattering of Israel to all the four corners of the earth. Israel was scattered because, although they were given 490 years prior to the first advent of Christ, they would not repent of their idolatrous worship, and the consequences of not repenting of their idolatrous worship, their iniquities of the first two ages of the fathers were visited upon their children and the children's children for a further two ages. As we read the OT we see that God keeps remining the nation of Israel that even though they had rebelled against God's statues and continually sinned against God, that at the end of the visitation of their sins against the nation of Israel, if they repented and turned once more to Him, that He would hear their cries and redeem them once more into His purposes.

Because of Israel's continuous idolatrous behaviour, they had rejected God. Because they were rejecting God, they would not nor could not accept God's offer of redemption through the acts of His Son who came at the very time that their iniquities began its visitation upon their children at the beginning of the third age of the existence of Israel. As presented in Daniel.9:24, after the period of grace of 490 years, God intended to have the redemption process changed such that the sacrifice of His son on the Cross would now suffice for the redemption of all sin from that point onwards.

Jesus during His ministry, acknowledged that some of Abraham's descendants would return to the land of Canaan, (Parables concerning the Fig tree), in their own strength during the fourth age of their existence and used that budding of new leaves of Israel as a sign and indicator of the beginning of the seventh age of the Ages. Around this time, Christ indicated that the returned descendants would attempt to build a third temple in Jerusalem, on the site where Solomon built his temple, but that they would not have the means to complete this task and that nations would come up against Israel and Jerusalem against which He would fight and Judge which would be visible from Jerusalem. Christ also warned Israel that if they did not regain their saltiness at that time that God would throw them out onto the dung heap even though God's prophetic words suggested otherwise.

In the Parable of the Pound, Christ indicated that Israel, at that time, will declare that they no longer want Satan to be king over them. That they will seek out God's/Christ's terms of peace.

The requirement of seeking out God's redemption has not been made redundant, but the process whereby we are redeemed has been changed such that animal sacrifices are no longer required nor acceptable unto the Lord. That went immediately after Christ rose from the dead.

The Salvation process/covenant has not been done away with such that there is a need for a new covenant, however the process where by redemption is gained has been refurbished/refreshed (kaineous, G:2537) through the better promises that it has gained.

After Armageddon in our near future, God will make like new again, with a few tweaks, the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations covenant and will teach Israel, where they live scattered throughout the world, about the things of the Heavenly Kingdom that at that time will be established here on the earth.

This is God's Glory being manifested in His people.

Shalom
Hello @Jay Ross,

Thank you for the time and effort you have put into your response to me. I have read it through this morning, but will need to sit down with an open Bible, and consider it properly later. This is merely an acknowledgement, to let you know that your efforts are not wasted, but that I will consider what you have said carefully.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Hello @Jay Ross,

I thank you for your post, and thank God for the fact that I had to really consider the points you have made in the light of His Word, and that is always a valuable exercise, bringing light and joy in the knowledge of His provision revealed within it's pages.

" Regarding the promises of God you refer to, made to Adam, to Noah, and also to Abraham in Genesis 15, I found that they were covenants of promise, which required no obligation on the part of one party, God Himself being the only party covenanting, they being unconditional. So no mediator was required for them. That is not so for the Mosaic covenant at Sinai, for which Moses was the mediator, on the basis of the blood of the sacrifices offered. It is this covenant which is to be replaced by a new covenant, of which our Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator, His own blood being the blood of the covenant made. It will be made with the children of Israel, as the old covenant was.

* During the Acts period, gentiles were able to benefit from part of the new covenant, and that was the forgiveness of sins, but the remainder of the terms of the covenant await it's institution, at the coming of Christ. For Israel failed to acknowledge Christ as their Messiah and Lord, and so the New Covenant is now in suspension, awaiting that coming day.

* Hebrews chapter eight and Jeremiah 31:31, describe the covenant in question in Hebrews 12:24 sufficiently I believe, so that there need be no misunderstanding.

* The promise made to believers in this dispensation (ie., Titus 1:2 & 2 Timothy 1:9) were made with Christ, before the foundation of the world, so the believer is 'complete' in Him. Praise God! Mediated by Him, on the basis of His all-sufficient sacrifice, so all is secure and sure.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you again, Jay,
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
As to Israel failed to acknowledge Christ Jesus, well that is not true at all because Israel is the servant of God and when we understand that Jesus said to his disciples go to the Israelites, we find that not all are truly Servants of God Israel ? you see.
But his disciples are Servants of God for sure = true Israel as was Nathaniel called remember all that Jesus said to him and all ?

Only the truly born again can see the Kingdom of God, so if you are truly born again you are in the Kingdom of God, regardless of what, it's the same as the 2ed coming is, only that in that day all will be born again and the kingdom of God comes in fullness on earth.

Now Jesus said to Nathaniel what would he would see ? now that was 2000 years ago you know. do your remember what Jesus said to him. does that not blow you away !

Water baptised are only given to forgiveness of sins and in the hope that they will come to the Holy Spirit that is above.

I believe that Nathaniel went to Heaven right then, and I believe that many have in 2000 years, but to say that the New Covenant has been in suspension is wrong not to mention that such is a rejection of Jesus Christ. all the disciples did know who Jesus was 100% after he went up to Heaven and it's they who preached the word to the whole world.
I don't give a rats for if one claims to be Jew or Gentile, you have the message or you don't, it's a free gift that you must cherish.
Christ Jesus is the wellspring and all must come to drink of him and anything outside of that is worthless regardless of the past or the future.
 

Jon Mathews

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Constantly seeing people trying to say these are the same thing when they are not.

When I asked them they Judah or Israel they go silent.

So let's take a look and discuss the issues.

The the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the Power of God, the New Covenant unto Salvation for both Jew and Gentile..... to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16, Romans 2:10

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached first to the Jews. When they rejected it, God sent the Gospel to the Gentiles, until the fullness of the Gentiles come into Christ. Then the Jews will be made jealous and will return to God and receive Jesus Christ, and they too will become part of the Church, which is the Body of Christ. God does not have a separate Gospel for Jews and Gentiles. Jesus Christ is for everyone and only in Him is the New Covenant.
 

Jon Mathews

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You need to get a proper understanding of the Church. Please read and study Romans 11 and all other Scriptures about the Church.

1. The New Covenant was given to Israel (the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, or the twelve tribes of Israel).

2. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant, since it was His shed blood which ratified this Covenant.

4. The New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died, and said "It is finished". The tearing of the temple veil in two meant the end of the Old Covenant.

5. Fifty days after the crucifixion, the Holy Spirit was poured out on earth to fulfill the promise of the Spirit under the New Covenant.

6. Three thousand Jews were saved on the day of Pentecost, and this was the beginning of the Church under the New Covenant.

7. Therefore the New Covenant was applied immediately to Israel, but would not be limited to Israel.

8. Peter was sent to the home of the Gentile Cornelius to begin the grafting of Gentiles into the Church. Therefore the Church consists of the root and tree of believing Israel, and Gentiles are called branches grafted from the wild olive tree into the good olive tree.

9. The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant, which means that after the Second Coming of Christ, all unbelieving Jews will be gathered to the land of Israel, and a believing remnant will be placed within greater Israel during the Millennium (and beyond). They will all be regenerated and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

10. There is only one New Covenant in the blood of Christ, and that covers both the Church and redeemed and restored Israel.

This correct. You got it!