New World Order Bible Versions

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
God does not change and neither does Jesus, but His word does get translated, otherwise we would all need to learn Greek and Hebrew to read the Bible.
How this is lost on KJVO, can only be explained by the spirit of deception they suffer from. God did NOT inspire His word in English, not is any of His original word left for us to see. The are indisputable facts, even if they are not recognized or accepted by those who are KJVO.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
God did NOT inspire His word in English...
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tim. 3:16-17

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. - Acts 2:1-11

...not is any of His original word left for us to see..
They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted. - Psalm 12:2-8
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
sojourner4Christ said:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - 2 Tim. 3:16-17

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. - Acts 2:1-11


They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted. - Psalm 12:2-8
Yes, and when Paul wrote that, the ONLY scripture was in Greek and Hebrew. There has been no scripture given since John wrote Revelation. The HB/KJV is a translation, NOT original scripture.

What the Holy Spirit did in allowing the God fearing Jews to hear the Apostles in their own languages was indeed a miracle. Notice that English wasn't one of those languages, IF you actually read the verse you quoted.

These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Always helps to read God's word IN context, despite what version you prefer.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
.


The HB/KJV is a translation...
lol Of course it is!

The HB/KJV is a translation, NOT original scripture.
Of course! God doesn't care about any so-called "originals," so why should we? Moses broke the "original" stone tablets, so he went back to the Lord for another set of the same, i.e. a "copy."

The survival of ‘the’ original, for example, Greek New Testament is a dream which dissolves with the discovery that not all manuscripts and critical editions are alike. Those applying this term to a Greek text on the bookstore shelf or internet site are unacquainted with the volatile state of the text.

And, of course, you're unable to tell us which “original Greek." Is it Aleph1, Aleph2, Aleph3, B1, B2, B3, C, L, W, Textus Receptus, Westcott and Hort, Scrivener’s, Alfred, Griesbach, Elzevir, Erasmus, Tischendorf, Lachman, Souter, von Soden, Hodge-Farstad, Nestle’s-Aland (If so which edition between 1 and 26? which printing of the 26th?), USB-Aland, Black, Metzger, Wikgren (Which edition between 1 and 47?), or the Greek-English Diglot for the Use of Translators?

It's never been about any "translation" per se. But if wannabe scholars could shift their burden from God's "inspired," "pure" and "preserved" word to man's intellect, then they could proceed to build their ivory towers.

Your position seems to be the nexus of two of your major problems with the Word of God, the KJB. To paraphrase, you believe that only the "original manuscript" is "inspired." And you fail to understand the significance of your uninformed use of the word "original."

So we recognize the "originals" strawman you would construct, and then proceed to dismantle, all in a vain effort to prove yourself among the "scholarly."

The burning question is, were did the "Originals-Only" Heresy originate? What is the scholarly opinion documented truth of the matter?


Clever Cowards: The Origin of the 'Originals Only' Heresy
Jesus Christ is the target of hatred by this world. His living Spirit-inspired words, which give his express will on this earth, are the bull's eye. Christians who stand with Christ's word at the very bull's eye will not only suffer persecution, but they will also be subject to a constant barrage of attack. The word of God brings the same reproach he bore. His word is the only vestige on earth of Jesus Christ, other than the Holy Ghost and the testimony of born again Christians. Many move slightly off center to avoid the unremitting assault of questioning scribes and mocking bystanders. Those edging away from the bull's eye are still 'for Jesus,' but the desire not to appear "foolish" finds puffed egos seeking ways and means to avoid the "shame" that comes from saying that you have a book in which God actually talks to man (Acts 5:41, Heb 12:2).

The living "powerful" quality of the King James Bible incites sinful men to "mock" and "question" it, just as they did Jesus Christ, the living Word, when he was on earth (Mark 10:34, Matt 22:15, Mark 8:11, et al.). The thought seems to be -- 'Point a finger at it, before it points one back.') The apostles scurried away when Jesus was tried and crucified. When the KJB is likewise tried with accusing questions, even some of the best men scurry under the cover of a Greek text, some lexicon, or the elusive 'originals.'

Calvinists such as Carl Barth (1886-1968) and B. B. Warfield (1851-1921), although defending a semblance of traditional Christianity against German rationalism, were among the first to erect imaginary castles to house the word of God, outside of the tangible 'Holy Bible.' Jesus is the "Word" (capital 'W' John 1:1); the scriptures are the "word" (small 'w'). Carl Barth (and Heinrich Brunner), the fathers of neo-orthodoxy, wrongly claimed that the 'word' of God did not actually exist on earth. To them the Bible was merely a fallible man-made book, speaking of Christ, the Word. Therefore Barth began capitalizing the letter 'W' when he referred to the 'word.' This was just one of many weak 'Christian' accommodations to the 19th century skeptics' claims that the Holy Bible could not stand up under their "science falsely so-called." (Today too many copy his liberal capitalization of the letter 'W' when referring to the 'word,' not knowing the unscriptural character of such a switch.)

Pastors, say, "Open your Bibles to..." Sunday School teachers say, "I hope you all brought your Bibles." There are those, however who say that the 'Bible is inspired,' but actually mean that only the originals or some kind of Greek text is inspired. They are practicing Semler's deceptive theory of accommodation. They are trying to give the impression of orthodoxy to their listeners or readers. When I use the term 'Holy Bible' or 'Bible' I mean what every church-going person means and exactly what their dictionary calls the "Bible" -- "the sacred book of Christianity including the Old and the New Testament." A 'book' is defined by Webster as "a set of written or printed pages fastened on an end and enclosed between protective covers." This describes precisely the Holy Bible Christians read and have in their homes. A 'book' is nowhere identified as 'dissolved animal skins or parchments which have been written on'; neither is a 'Bible' thought of by anyone as a rare and unreadable Greek text. No living person identifies a 'Bible' as any of these things, except perhaps those 'clergy' who, like Humpty Dumpty say, "When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean." When children and politicians, like Clinton, do this, it is called lying. The new definition and usage of the word 'Bible,' as the lost originals or conflicting Greek and Hebrew manuscripts or editions, is a neologism, that is, "a new meaning for an already established word" (Webster's II New College Dictionary).

The Unabridged 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary defines "Bible" as, "The Scriptures of the Old and New Testament." As such, the verse "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" would mean that the "Bible" "is given by inspiration of God." One merely needs to see the OED to determine that the Bible is scripture and according to the Bible "All scripture is given by inspiration."

B. B. Warfield was one of the first American theologians to declare war on the Holy Bible's inspiration. In the 1800s this American Presbyterian theologian found himself too close to the bull's eye, the Holy Bible. He unwisely positioned himself under a constant barrage of attack when, in 1876, he went to study for a year in Leipzig, Germany under the highest critics, who denied that God had given man the Bible. Warfield brought to Germany a letter of introduction by Philip Schaff, ASV Chairman and organizer, with the Luciferians, of the Parliment of World Religions. Warfield's questionable associations and dead Calvinism left him no match for the twisted German assault on the Bible. There he readily absorbed the 18th century rationalism of German and other 'Enlightenment' philosophers, which exalt human reason and rule out revelation as a source of knowledge (e. g. Descartes, Spinoza, and Leibniz). Compounding this, he was exposed to the modernism of Schleiermacher, Hume, and Kant, which flatly deny any miraculous intervention by God. These philosophers all redirected their 'faith' from faith in the Holy Bible to a faith in man. Such dark naturalistic philosophies have cast a lingering shadow over the miraculous nature of the Holy Bible in the minds of even seminary graduates.

Warfield sought to merge what he learned in Germany with his previous conservatism. On one hand Warfield wrote against the rank unbelief of Briggs, the German higher critic (and author with Brown and Driver of the corrupt English edition of Genenius' Hebrew Lexicon, unwisely used today). However, Warfield could not defend the Bible in hand. He did not have a strong enough background in manuscript evidence or a humble enough faith in the scriptures to counter the barrage of textual variants and 'poblems' thrust at him in the German classroom. He invented a plan whereby he could retain the creed, that stated that 'the Bible' was inspired. He redefined the word 'Bible' for seminary students. He moved the locus of inspiration from the Holy Bible to the lost originals. This "biblical paradigm shift" by B. B. Warfield contravenes every previous belief and church confession (e. g. Turretin c. 1687, Westminster, 1646, London Baptist, 1677 et al.). Warfield could still defend the inspiration of 'the Bible' with vigor, and he did, but he now stated that this inspiration related only to the originals. He was the spokesman for his compromising contemporaries at Princeton who felt that only the originals "were" inspired. A. A. Hodge, son of textual critic Charles Hodge, who himself had studied two years in Germany, had planted the seed in Warfield's mind; Warfield's fellow associates first put this new heresy in print at the Niagara Conference in 1878. Princeton was the first place in history to harbor this particular shift from an inspired Holy Bible in hand to inspired originals, long gone. Warfield used the Westcott and Hort RV; his "heresies" in other areas (Ecumenical Calvinism) reveal that he was not "approved" according to 1 Cor 11:19. Hence his view of inspiration should be rejected.

In order to divest themselves of a living book that contains the words of the Spirit of God, today's liberals have adopted his distinction between the so-0called 'originals' and the word of God extant today in vernacular Holy Bibles. His 'original' idea about the originals has "crept in unaware" into Bible school textbooks and doctrinal statements. It provides a comfortable respite for those who, as Jesus said, are "ashamed of me and my words," when questions arise (Mark 8:38).

Commenting on Warfield's departure from the historic faith is Dr. James Sightler, a medical doctor and son of Dr. Harold Sightler, the famous and now deceased pastor from Greenville, S. C.. Dr. Sightler took the pulse of the King James Bible and determined that it was alive. His booklet Lively Oracles is his dissertation on the inspiration of the KJB. In his earlier classic, A Testimony Founded Forever, Dr. James Sightler writes,

"It has been stated by Sandeen that the Princeton Theologians Archibald Alexander Hodge and Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield, in 1881, were the first to claim inspiration for the original autographs only and to exchange the doctrine of providential preservation for restoration of the text by critics. This shift was accompanied by a change from reliance on internal verification of the scripture by the witness of the spirit and the structural integrity of the entire Bible to reliance on external evidences. Actually it was Warfield's teacher and predecessor at Princeton, Charles Hodge, father of A. A. Hodge, who was the first to take up naturalistic text criticism and abandon the doctrine of providential preservation. It should also be remembered that the Niagara Creed of 1878, adopted at the Niagara Conference on Prophecy, which was dominated by a coalition of Princeton graduates and followers of J. N. Darby, may well have been the first document to claim inspiration for every word of scripture "provided such word is found in the original manuscripts"" (emphasis mine; See Ernest R. Sandeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism, Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House 1970, pp. 103-131 as cited by James Sightler, A Testimony Founded Forever, Greenville, SC: Sightler Publications, 2001, pp. 31, 32 et al.; Sightler's book gives an entire chapter which documents Warfield's heretical shift. John Asquith has written a book entitled Further Thoughts on the Word of God: Defending the Inspiration of the AV 1611, which I also recommend.)

Dr. Gary La More of Canada wrote an entire paper detailing Warfield's cowardly retreat,

"Having been encouraged by A. A. Hodge to defend the Princeton view of verbal inspiration against an attack by the critical theories of Charles A. Briggs, Warfield found himself on the horns of a dilemma...Warfield's solution was to shift his doctrine of inerrancy to include only the original autographa; no longer holding to the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible of the Reformers, the Traditional Text. Thus he moved that if the locus of providence were now centered in restoration via "Enlightenment" textual criticism, rather than preservation of the traditinal texts, then we need not concern ourselves with the criticism lodged at the text of Scripture presently (and historically!) used in the Church" (Gary La More, B. B. Warfield and His Followers, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada: Grace Missionary Baptist Church, 2007, pp. 27-28).

Warfield accommodated the Bible to modern scientific rationalism, empiricism, and naturalism. Like doubting Thomas, Warfield must see it, not just believe it. Many were drawn to his naturalistic idea because they did not know how to defend their Bibles from the barrage of questions arising out of Germany. As La More observed, Warfield's accommodation is a comfortable resort today for those who cannot answer questions about why the KJB reads as it does and do not want to appear "foolish." It is frightening to think that a non-soul-winning German-trained Calvinist is dictating from the grave his originals-only theory of inspiration to those who disavow many of his other beliefs and practices. Warfield's inspired 'originals only' still stains many churches; 'Statement of Faith.' The churches who have such statements think that their creed is orthodox and have no knowledge if its heterodox origin. They do not realize that it was merly an accommodation to the infidels of Germany who found imaginary faults in the Bible.

Warfield's invention has darkened the sense and spread a faltering faith to even good Christians such as John Burgon, Edward Hills, and their modern day proponents, some of whom have cowered and acquiesced to alleged spots or conceivable future updates or improvement to the KJB. These men have become rationalists, naturalists and modernists in practice by exalting man's role in the transmission of the Bible and denying the miraculous intervention of God. The Bible says. "Thou shalt preserve them..." It is his work. What shall he preserve? He shall preserve his words -- not replace them with men's words. Unwittingly, they have in a sense adopted the neo-orthodox position that the Bible (that we have) only contains God's message (but accurately translated by men into English).

To them Bibles are no longer God's own English words. Remember, he said "I speak" "other tongues." Practically speaking they have adopted the same view as those who create and use modern versions, who say that the Bible was inspired only in the originals and consequently they are free to reconstitute it themselves according to rationalistic methods. There is not a lot of difference (in presumption, not text) between men making NIVs and men making the 'updated' KJV Easy-Reader or KJV Evidence Bible (Ray Comfort). Is the Holy Bible God's words or man's? There is no middle ground. The title even says 'Holy' Bible. Since when can unholy men make a wholly holy book?

Another author observes,

"Throughout the twentieth century, a view of inspiration gained ascendancy among evangelicals and many fundamentalists that marked a departure from that which was previously confessed by believers since New Testament days...Recent scholarship has shown that men like Princeton professor Benjamin Warfield (1851-1921) were not as committed to the Biblical doctrine of verbal inspiration as we are sometimes led to believe. Thinking to answer rationalist theologians on their own ground and legitimize textual studies, these men began to suggest that only the autographs (originals) were inspired; apographs (copies) were not. For this reason many of the Statements of Faith issued by various bodies now speak of the Scriptures being inspired 'as originally given' whereas before this time the conviction was that inspired Scripture was preserved in the copies. All this took place almost unnoticed, but we are being asked to swallow a real whopper! The apostle Paul is right, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22).

What this means is that as the originals have long since turned to dust, no inspired text exists today...Warfield's book on biblical inspiration is still hailed as a 'classic,' but his viewpoint has done more to undermine confidence in Scripture than almost any other in the last 150 years or so." (David W. Norris, The Big Picture, pp. 295-296 as cited in La More, pp. 20-21).

Warfield fought higher criticism, but adopted lower criticism, which is the rationalistic belief that the inspired originals had been lost for a millennium and a half and could be reconstructed by Westcott, Hort, and Schaff on the RV and ASV committees. Warfield said Westcott and Hort "furnish us for the first time with a really scientific method" which "will meet with speedy universal acceptance" (as cited in La More, note 13 pp. 17, 27, et al.; also see Mark A. Noll, Between Faith and Criticism, 2nd ed., Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1991).

In 1886 Warfield wrote the first book in America promoting textual criticism (Introduction to the Textual Criticism of the New Testament). Calhoun's history of Princeton says, "His positive attitude toward textual criticism influenced many to appreciate the science and to value the new translations of the Bible [RV and ASV]..." (David Calhoun, Princeton Seminary, Vol. 2, "The Majectic Testimony 1869-1929," pp. 113-115) Schaff invited Warfield to contribute his Hortian views on manuscript genealogy to his heretical Companion to the Greek Testament and English Version. Sightler says, "Westcott, Hort, Schaff, and Warfield...all knew that Griesbach openly denied the Diety of Christ, and yet they followed his methods in preference to those of Frederick Nolan, who was a believer. They reasoned in circular fashion that the best readings were in codices B and Aleph, therefore B and Aleph gave the best textual evidence [Vaticanus and Sinaiticus]" (Sightler, p. 31).

Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield should have followed in his maternal grandfather and namesake's footsteps. Robert Breckenridge was a lawyer and Presbyterian minister who single-handedly stopped the wavering American Bible Society from printing their own revised version of the KJB thirty years before the RV. This version was edited and corrupted by men including John McClintock (of McClintock and (James) Strong's Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature). This version omitted such important doctrines as, "God was manifest in the flesh" (Sightler, p. 35).

Each generation must remember that --

"With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding" (Job 12:12)

"...ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they say, We will not walk therein." (Jer 6:16)

The Holy Bible has always been recognized as the locus of inspiration, that is, until the Egyptian locusts saw its fruitful boughs and swarmed to consume it.

-- thanks to my sister for providing this to me

From the OP:

Find out why the King James Bible is consistent with all previous English translations, while the modern versions are all dramatically different. The changes being made in the modern versions are not incidental. They are part of a satanic agenda to undermine key Biblical teachings and prepare the population for an all-inclusive one world religion.
Once again, the thesis of the OP has been tried and found worthy.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
There are no originals/autographs and all the bloviation in the world doesn't change that. English is NOT the inspired text, Hebrew and Greek is. You can cut & paste 'til the cows come home but it is simply the same old false teaching and self-righteous garb age we see all the time. constantly repeating it changes nothing.

The only Satanic agenda is WITHIN the KJVO movement.

BTW, GOD wrote the second 10 commandments, so they were also originals.

From: http://dbts.edu/blog/beginning-of-kjv-only-movement/

One of the issues that still troubles many churches today is the King James-only error. By KJV-only, I am specifically referencing the belief that only the KJV of the Bible is the Word of God. All other versions or translations are so corrupt that they are not to be used, nor be appealed to as the Word of God. Translations like the New American Standard Bible or the English Standard Version or even the New King James Version (let alone the New International Version) are not the Word of God and thus should never be used in church, certainly not in the pulpit. They are to be despised and rejected wholesale.
Most KJV-only advocates argue that the printed Greek Text from which the KJV was translated, commonly called the Textus Receptus (TR), is itself inspired and inerrant, and the KJV is the only translation that accurately translates the TR. Thus, the KJV is also perfect, without error. A few KJV-only proponents insist that the KJV itself is the product of inspiration directly (Peter Ruckman).
Because I teach a class called “How We Got Our Bible,” and have written a number of articles related to the KJV-only movement (here, here, and here), I am sometimes asked, “When did the KJV-only movement begin?” Like many movements, theological and otherwise, there is usually never a specific beginning date that one can point to. They begin slowly over time, pick up steam, and often peter out. But if I had to pick a specific date for the beginning of the KJV-only movement, it would be May 17, 1881.
The KJV of 1611 has actually been revised a number of times over the years, particularly in 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769. Current editions of the KJV are substantially reprints of the 1769 edition by Dr. Benjamin Blayney. By the 1800s one can find occasional statements by an odd individual here and there arguing for the perfection of the KJV. This was probably bound to happen. When a particular version has nearly universal preeminence and has been in use for a long period, it can easily be ascribed with the qualities of the original language writings (inspiration and infallibility). This is, in fact, what happened when Jerome produced his Latin Vulgate translation ca. A.D. 400. He ran into stiff opposition from those who were used to reading their Bible in the Old Latin manuscripts, which they considered inspired.


Burgon


In 1870 the Church of England decided to embark on a new revision of the KJV. While the KJV NT was translated from the TR, this new revision closely followed the Greek NT that was being prepared by B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. The NT of the Revised Version was, as I noted, published in England on May 17, 1881. The Revised Version (RV) differed from the KJV in hundreds of places where the RV followed the newer Greek text. There was immediate opposition to the RV and this newer Greek text on which it was based. The chief opponent of the textual changes was John William Burgon, Dean of Chichester. He reviewed the RV in a series of articles in the Quarterly Review from 1881 and 1882, which were then published in 1883 under the title The Revision Revised. It is primarily with the writings of Burgon that the KJV-only movement finds its origins.

continued from : http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20516-new-world-order-bible-versions/page-4


In my previous post, I asked if churches should abandon the King James Version for a modern English translation. I answered, “Yes,” and suggested there were two main reasons. The first is the inferior Greek text from which the KJV was translated, the Textus Receptus (TR). The second is the nature of the translation itself. The KJV is often lauded as an outstanding literary achievement, never to be repeated. But the truth is that after 400 years it suffers a number of shortcomings when compared to modern versions. I will mention two.
The biggest problem by far with the KJV is the archaic language. English is constantly changing, and after 400 years the language of the KJV might even be considered a different dialect. Notice 2 Cor 6:11–13 in the KJV:

O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children) be ye also enlarged.

How is any English reader supposed to make sense of that? Compare the same verses in the NIV:

We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also.

There is no legitimate reason why anyone should be put at the disadvantage of reading a Bible written in an archaic dialect when there are excellent versions available in current English. Even if one believes that the TR is the preferred Greek text, they have an excellent modern English translation available to them in the New King James Version, which is translated from the same Hebrew and Greek texts as the KJV.

Another part of the translation problem with the KJV is that although it was well done for its day, our knowledge of the biblical languages of Hebrew and Greek has advanced significantly since 1611. This means that today we have a more accurate understanding of what the original authors of Scripture were saying, and we can express that in current, natural English. Even though KJV-only advocates rave about the scholarship of the KJV translators, in fact, they did not understand many of the finer points of the Greek language of the first century.
The KJV translators often failed, for example, to grasp something seemingly so minor as the use of the Greek article, or lack thereof, which has some important differences from English. For example, in John 4:24 (KJV) Jesus explains to a Samaritan woman that “God is a Spirit.” Because of the lack of the article before the word spirit, the KJV translators take the word “spirit” to be indefinite, “a Spirit.” However, it is now well understood that the lack of the definite article indicates that spirit in this situation is qualitative and that the correct translation is “God is spirit,” stressing the nature or essence of God, as we find in the ESV, HCSB, NASB, NKJV, and NIV. Later in 4:27 when the disciples return, they are surprised, as the KJV puts it, that He was speaking “with the woman,” as though the Gospel writer was pointing to a particular woman—the woman. There is, however, no article “the” in the Greek text, but the KJV translators insert one, failing to understand that the word woman should be taken as an indefinite noun. What was surprising to the disciples was not that Jesus was speaking to this particular woman (“the woman”), but that as a rabbi He was speaking to a woman at all, particularly a Samaritan woman. Again, modern translations like the ESV, HCSB, NASB, NKJV, and NIV, correctly record the disciples astonishment that Jesus was speaking “with a woman.”
We constantly emphasize the primacy of the Scriptures and how we want people to read and understand the Bible. And truly nothing is more important for a believer than to hear and obey God’s Word. That being the case, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that will be of more benefit in aiding a person’s understanding of Scripture than a modern version of the Bible.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
.


BTW, GOD wrote the second 10 commandments, so they were also originals.
God could have written, stenciled, or photocopied another twenty 10 commandments; each would still be nothing more than a copy of God's original.



English is NOT the inspired text, Hebrew and Greek is.
StanJ has finally posted his theory in public - that God has not left us with his inspired word for the past 1800 years, that ‘scholars’ have recently resurrected a handful rejected-as-corrupt manuscripts (less than 1% of all available evidence aka the Minority Text), and that we should be downright thankful we have these wise men to guide us via their interpretations of this ‘new’ evidence since God hasn’t.

Rather, I say God’s word was inspired then, it is inspired now, it remains inspired, and we have his inspired word universally available to us today in vernacular Bibles in many languages worldwide.

Obviously, one of us is perpetrating a lie.

We have just learned the origin of the Originals-Only Heresy, the relatively recent theory that “only the ‘originals’ are inspired,” post #107 in this thread.

We learned who invented it, where they invented it, and why they invented it. I provided about 15 verses of scripture and a dozen points of documentation for those who wish to follow-up on the references.

However, in his reply, the contender has zero documentation in his posted one-man-band Op/Ed opinion piece, and has committed the very same crime he has falsely accused me of:



You can cut & paste 'til the cows come home but it is simply the same old false teaching and self-righteous garb age we see all the time. constantly repeating it changes nothing.
We see the pot calling the kettle black.

A lesser problem is that folks still have itching ears and thus are loathe to do their own checking of references and post their own documentation. It’s much easier (but not edifying) to risk following the popular opinions of others. And that’s were the dangers are.

We have also documented, from his own autobiography, a ‘recommended’ new version ‘editor’ as a spiritualist and necromancer who lost his ability to speak, post #74 and post #77 in this thread.

The ‘editor’ describes how, “with remorseless energy this particular demon rushes to and from up and down one’s mind and with savage cruelty exposes everything that the self has done as being useless and worthless.” -- a fitting end of those who would worship at the monument of textual criticism.

The greater problem is that folks do not understand inspiration. Perhaps StanJ or someone else could start a thread with such a topic. In any case, I will continue in this thread to validate the thesis of the OP, New World Order Bible Versions, with the documented facts.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
sojourner4Christ said:
.
God could have written, stenciled, or photocopied another twenty 10 commandments; each would still be nothing more than a copy of God's original.

StanJ has finally posted his theory in public - that God has not left us with his inspired word for the past 1800 years, that ‘scholars’ have recently resurrected a handful rejected-as-corrupt manuscripts (less than 1% of all available evidence aka the Minority Text), and that we should be downright thankful we have these wise men to guide us via their interpretations of this ‘new’ evidence since God hasn’t.

Rather, I say God’s word was inspired then, it is inspired now, it remains inspired, and we have his inspired word universally available to us today in vernacular Bibles in many languages worldwide.

Obviously, one of us is perpetrating a lie.

We have just learned the origin of the Originals-Only Heresy, the relatively recent theory that “only the ‘originals’ are inspired,” post #107 in this thread.

We learned who invented it, where they invented it, and why they invented it. I provided about 15 verses of scripture and a dozen points of documentation for those who wish to follow-up on the references.

However, in his reply, the contender has zero documentation in his posted one-man-band Op/Ed opinion piece, and has committed the very same crime he has falsely accused me of:

We see the pot calling the kettle black.

A lesser problem is that folks still have itching ears and thus are loathe to do their own checking of references and post their own documentation. It’s much easier (but not edifying) to risk following the popular opinions of others. And that’s were the dangers are.

We have also documented, from his own autobiography, a ‘recommended’ new version ‘editor’ as a spiritualist and necromancer who lost his ability to speak, post #74 and post #77 in this thread.

The ‘editor’ describes how, “with remorseless energy this particular demon rushes to and from up and down one’s mind and with savage cruelty exposes everything that the self has done as being useless and worthless.” -- a fitting end of those who would worship at the monument of textual criticism.

The greater problem is that folks do not understand inspiration. Perhaps StanJ or someone else could start a thread with such a topic. In any case, I will continue in this thread to validate the thesis of the OP, New World Order Bible Versions, with the documented facts.
If God wrote it, it's original, no matter how many times He wrote it. A copy would be by somebody else COPYING the first. This lack of understand says some obvious things about how you read and understand the English language.

I didn't post any theory, I posted facts, contrary to what you just did without ANY corroboration or citation, but simply KJVO rthetoric.

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability





by Matt Slick
The New Testament is constantly under attack, and its reliability and accuracy are often contested by critics. If the critics want to disregard the New Testament, then they must also disregard other ancient writings by Plato, Aristotle, and Homer. This is because the New Testament documents are better-preserved and more numerous than any other ancient writings. Because they are so numerous, they can be cross checked for accuracy . . . and they are very consistent.
There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.2
Author Date
Written
Earliest Copy Approximate Time Span between original & copy Number of Copies Accuracy of Copies Lucretius died 55 or 53 B.C. 1100 yrs 2 ---- Pliny A.D. 61-113 A.D. 850 750 yrs 7 ---- Plato 427-347 B.C. A.D. 900 1200 yrs 7 ---- Demosthenes 4th Cent. B.C. A.D. 1100 800 yrs 8 ---- Herodotus 480-425 B.C. A.D. 900 1300 yrs 8 ---- Suetonius A.D. 75-160 A.D. 950 800 yrs 8 ---- Thucydides 460-400 B.C. A.D. 900 1300 yrs 8 ---- Euripides 480-406 B.C. A.D. 1100 1300 yrs 9 ---- Aristophanes 450-385 B.C. A.D. 900 1200 10 ---- Caesar 100-44 B.C. A.D. 900 1000 10 ---- Livy 59 BC-AD 17 ---- ??? 20 ---- Tacitus circa A.D. 100 A.D. 1100 1000 yrs 20 ---- Aristotle 384-322 B.C. A.D. 1100 1400 49 ---- Sophocles 496-406 B.C. A.D. 1000 1400 yrs 193 ---- Homer (Iliad) 900 B.C. 400 B.C. 500 yrs 643 95% New
Testament
1st Cent. A.D. (A.D. 50-100) 2nd Cent. A.D.
(c. A.D. 130 f.) less than 100 years 5600 99.5%
As you can see, there are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing. The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. That is an amazing accuracy. In addition, there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages. The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000.
Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30., then that means the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned--people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.
Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri A.D. 125). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing, and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.
Below is a chart with some of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts compared to when they were originally penned. Compare these time spans with the next closest, which is Homer's Iliad, where the closest copy from the original is 500 years later. Undoubtedly, that period of time allows for more textual corruption in its transmission. How much less so for the New Testament documents?
Important
Manuscript
Papyri
Contents Date
Original Written
MSS
Date
Approx.
Time Span
Location p52
(John Rylands
Fragment)3 John 18:31-33, 37-38 circa
A.D. 96 circa
A.D.
125 29 yrs John Rylands Library, Manchester, England P46
(Chester Beatty Papyrus) Rom. 5:17-6:3, 5-14; 8:15-25, 27-35; 10:1-11, 22, 24-33, 35; 16:1-23, 25-27; Heb.; 1 & 2 Cor., Eph., Gal., Phil., Col.; 1 Thess. 1:1, 9-10; 2:1-3; 5:5-9, 23-28 50's-70's circa
A.D.
200 Approx.
150 yrs Chester Beatty Museum, Dublin & Ann Arbor, Michigan, University of Michigan library P66
(Bodmer Papyrus) John 1:1-6:11, 35-14:26; fragment of 14:29-21:9
70's
circa
A.D.
200 Approx.
130 yrs Cologne, Geneva P67 Matt. 3:9,15; 5:20-22, 25-28 circa
A.D.
200 Approx.
130 yrs Barcelona, Fundacion San Lucas Evangelista, P. Barc.1
If the critics of the Bible dismiss the New Testament as reliable information, then they must also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals, then they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence for the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents than he does for any other ancient writing. It is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.

As you have NOT demonstrated ANY proof of credentials, and simply cut and paste KJV rhetoric and propaganda without citations or attributions, which in itself is against the rules of this forum and at the least immoral and in some cases illegal, there nothing really to respond to. Lies are lies and addressing them just gives them more credibility than they deserve. You're not fooling anyone here by these onerous and bloviated posts, just confirming you are so deluded by your KJVO belief, that you will say anything, despite it's veracity, to try and make you point. Thankfully the Holy Spirit in the majority of those that read your garbage, knows that's exactly what it is.... GARBAGE!
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
.
Dear readers,

According to StanJ, the "Hebrew and Greek" is "the inspired text":

StanJ said:
English is NOT the inspired text, Hebrew and Greek is.
Also according to StanJ, it is "original" (and inspired) if God makes copies of what God wrote, but it is merely a copy if man makes copies of what God wrote.

StanJ said:
If God wrote it, it's original, no matter how many times He wrote it. A copy would be by somebody else COPYING the first.
So what do we have here? According to StanJ:

1) 'God wrote the 10 commandments; they're originals.'
2) If God writes the same thing multiple times, all are still original (and inspired).
3) 'If some man copies something, then such is a mere copy.'
4) 'The Greek and Hebrew is the inspired text.'

Hmmmmm. We see that StanJ again has a serious credibility problem here. We all know the "the Greek and Hebrew" was not written by God - it was penned by men. So how did StanJ jump from #3 to #4?

Here's how: If, as Stanj says, "the Hebrew and Greek" are "the inspired text," but mere men can write only copies, then logic would require StanJ to claim those men who wrote "the Hebrew and Greek" also were inspired.

While we know men wrote "the Hebrew and Greek text," and later, other men copied it, StanJ's theology would force us to pigeonhole the truths of inspiration so the 'scholars' can proceed with their (uninspired) dissimulations.

Inspiration is the lock that the scholar establishment will never attempt to open, because to do so would remove them from the throne of their own construction..

So, adding to StanJ's list:

5) 'Men who wrote "the Hebrew and Greek" were inspired.' [Where subsequent translators and their texts appear on StanJ's 'credential scale' is unclear, even among fellow 'scholars.']

Dear reader, here we see the problem with man's textual criticism laid out before us. Many of you believe that God inspired men to write God's words and, therefore, as StanJ would promote, 'we better make certain we have credentialed EXPERTS doing the writing.'

This is why StanJ, and many of you, would push for 'bigger and better bibles,' that appear "pleasant to the eyes" and "to make one wise," that come with the highest recommendations of the 'scholars' who offer periodic "updates" of their findings to their yes-men and other subscribers.

People, you've been sold a bill of goods by the world's best merchandiser, Satan himself. We'll come back to that soon.

Thankfully the Holy Spirit in the majority of those that read your garbage, knows that's exactly what it is.... GARBAGE!
Nice try, StanJ; there's no excuse for your utter lack of any documentation for your opinions. You've been shown more than twice now, with verifiable primary and secondary documentation, the utter error of your ways. Yes, the "majority of those that read" are beginning to see exactly what lies beneath the rhetoric of your bankrupt theology.

And, from StanJ, we see another revealing chunk of spam from an "apologetics expert," a one-man-band Op/Ed piece void of documentation - this one a bit more diabolical than most, thoroughly mixing truth with lies:

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability

by Matt Slick
lol @ "Slick." The Lord does have a sense of humor!

StanJ, the image you've posted in these forums is - surprise! - of yourself, while your profile states: "I am a born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit, Bible believing Christian, now for over 43 years!" But your paradoxical 'gospel message' remains far from the Lord's gospel message. This thread presently has over 1000 views. I don't believe for a second they're reading this thread because they are edified by the foul langauge that has spewed from your mouth, or by your recommendation of a modern bible version edited by a necromancer with demons. They read it because they know in their spirit something is very wrong; they are unsure what it is, but they want to know the truth. They are not the 'un-credentialed dummies' you have accused them of being. They also know that both of us cannot be right; therefore, StanJ, one of us is in very grave error on this, and it isn't me.

Getting back to the truth behind the 'scholar' smokescreen, the issue is:

Did God inspire men to write his words? What saith scripture?

We'll give StanJ yet another opportunity to rise to the occasion, then we'll get into the reality of inspiration and what that means for us 'commonfolk uncredentialed dummies.'
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Not hard at all to see this is yet another example of S4C posting much, but saying absolutely NOTHING. What has been lacking throughout this thread is ANY credibility or credulity on his part. Not even common sense.
This supercilious attitude, coupled with NO support whatsoever leaves us to see he has nothing but an ability to type on his keyboard.
IF he can come up with some truth and not just denials, I'll see if it's worth addressing. He is definitely a sojourner, and it seems, has spent way to long in the desert of his own mind. The ONLY truth in this last post of his are the three last words to describe himself.
Madad21 said:
...this thread needs to die, its been dead a while now.
False teachers never die...they just go to hell.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
Not hard at all to see this is yet another example of S4C posting much, but saying absolutely NOTHING. What has been lacking throughout this thread is ANY credibility or credulity on his part. Not even common sense.
This supercilious attitude, coupled with NO support whatsoever leaves us to see he has nothing but an ability to type on his keyboard.
IF he can come up with some truth and not just denials, I'll see if it's worth addressing. He is definitely a sojourner, and it seems, has spent way to long in the desert of his own mind. The ONLY truth in this last post of his are the three last words to describe himself.
As with every professed "born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit, Bible believing Christian, now for over 43 years!" who is found to be abiding in error, we gave StanJ yet another opportunity to do the right thing, i.e. REPENT.

We with discernment understand the truth may be threatening to the likes of StanJ. As the light makes manifest the darkness, we witness that manifestation in the form of putrid fruit and a vile tongue. For example, and as we've thoroughly documented in this thread, StanJ has endorsed a popular demon-infested necromancing modern version 'editor' and has no conscience or remorse about it. And he would still have us following his list of 'credentialed scholarly 'yes-men,'' while continually refusing reproof, admonishment and correction. God help this man!

StanJ (and those who are likewise blinded by his theology) wishes the primary documentation I have posted would just go away - at one point, even subtly attempting to get this thread closed down (post #73). Weak spammed "rebuttals" consisting of 'scholarly' one-man Op/Ed pieces ripped from the net is the best we've seen from this man.

God's command is to "mark and avoid" (Rom. 16:17). From this point forward, and in the total absence of any Godly behaviour from this man, StanJ will be treated as the unbeliever he evinces to be.

Buyer beware.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
sojourner4Christ said:
As with every professed "born again, baptized in the Holy Spirit, Bible believing Christian, now for over 43 years!" who is found to be abiding in error, we gave StanJ yet another opportunity to do the right thing, i.e. REPENT.

We with discernment understand the truth may be threatening to the likes of StanJ. As the light makes manifest the darkness, we witness that manifestation in the form of putrid fruit and a vile tongue. For example, and as we've thoroughly documented in this thread, StanJ has endorsed a popular demon-infested necromancing modern version 'editor' and has no conscience or remorse about it. And he would still have us following his list of 'credentialed scholarly 'yes-men,'' while continually refusing reproof, admonishment and correction. God help this man!

StanJ (and those who are likewise blinded by his theology) wishes the primary documentation I have posted would just go away - at one point, even subtly attempting to get this thread closed down (post #73). Weak spammed "rebuttals" consisting of 'scholarly' one-man Op/Ed pieces ripped from the net is the best we've seen from this man.

God's command is to "mark and avoid" (Rom. 16:17). From this point forward, and in the total absence of any Godly behaviour from this man, StanJ will be treated as the unbeliever he evinces to be.

Buyer beware.
Yes, I have professed my salvation....something you haven't. You hide who you are in the supercilious and onerous posts you make. I for one rebuke you in Jesus' name. The vehement self righteousness of who you are is clearly demonstrated here for ALL to see. I suggest you use a bit of that avatar of yours to get your tough stain of the bondage of sin you are caught in to see if it works. If not then try the real Jesus, I know He can deliver you from the sin that so easily besets you and has you deceived. Sadly you no longer understand God's word, regardless of what the English translation is.

INTRODUCTION
The salesclerk never saw it coming. He had just finished unpacking the new shipment of study Bibles and setting up the new display. He had been working at the Christian bookstore only a week. All seemed well. And then it happened. She seemed like any other lady looking for a Bible for her grandson. More than glad to help he pulled a nice NIV down from the shelf and opened the box. He noticed she immediately turned the Bible and looked at the spine. Her countenance changed. She put the Bible back in the box, withdrawing her hands quickly, as a person does when discovering an object is dirty or oily. "I would like a real Bible," she says. "A real Bible?" The salesclerk asks. "Yes," she replied, "a real Bible, the Bible God honors, the King James Bible, the A.V. 1611."

Scenes like this are repeated almost daily across the English-speaking world. Ask any person who has worked behind the Bible counter at a Christian bookstore. Many have been informed in no uncertain terms that the only Bible they should be carrying is the King James Version. The many others they offer are, in fact, nothing but perversions of God’s Word.

The church today faces many difficult issues and questions. It would seem that a controversy revolving around a group of people who embrace one particular translation of the Bible is barely a bump in the rocky road upon which the church travels. One may well ask why we should take the time to examine an issue such as the King James Only controversy. Are there not more important things to do? Certainly it is true that far too much energy, in our opinion, has been expended upon this topic already, but that energy has come almost exclusively from one side of the debate. Most biblical scholars and theologians, even of the most conservative stripe, do not feel the issue worthy of any real investment of time. So why write an entire book on the topic? An illustration might help.

One of our faithful volunteers was on the phone. The pastor of her church had preached on Matthew 18 on Sunday, and had read verse 11, "For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost" (NASB). She and her husband were both using the New International Version, the NIV, which does not have Matthew 18:11. Neither one saw the textual footnote at the bottom of the page that gave the translation of verse 11. Both were quite puzzled and wondered why the NIV would "delete" this verse.

These friends are not alone. Believers who were raised in good, solid Christian churches have to admit to a large measure of ignorance when it comes to the text of the Scriptures. Why are there different translations? Why are there controversies about words, phrases, sentences, even entire passages? Why does my pastor’s Bible have a verse that mine does not? It is this kind of confusion that provides the perfect breeding ground for controversy. Our friends knew they could call upon us to explain the situation. Many do not know whom they can turn to.

The King James Only controversy, by its very nature, brings disruption and contention right into the pews of the local Christian church. KJV Only advocates, due to the nature of their beliefs, are often disruptive of the fellowship in churches, feeling that their message of "God’s one true Bible" needs to be heard by all. Anyone who does not "know what they know" needs to be told quickly, and most often, forcefully. And since much of the KJV Only material alleges grand and complex conspiracies on the part of the modern translations, distrust of others who use (or would even defend) those translations often results in schisms within the fellowship and a debilitation of the local body. (Does this sound familiar?)

Most important, men of God, pastors and elders entrusted with the care of the flock of God, are inevitably, and often unwillingly, drawn into this controversy. Time that should be spent in ministry to families, the sick, the hurting, has to be invested in explaining to zealous members of the congregation why their salvation is not dependent upon a seventeenth-century Anglican translation of the Bible. Energy that could be devoted to the study of the Word and the proclamation of God’s truth from the pulpit has to be directed toward allaying fears inspired by KJV Only publications. These pastors often have to adopt a defensive posture, for KJV Only advocates are quick to spread suspicion of weakness, or even heresy, against those who do not agree with their position.

Those not familiar with KJV Only publications need only pick up The Bible Believer’s Bulletin from Dr. Peter Ruckman (Pensacola Bible Institute) or books such as Let’s Weigh the Evidence by Barry Burton (Chick Publications, 1983), New Age Bible Versions by Gail Riplinger (A.V. Publications, 1993), or Final Authority by William P. Grady (Grady Publications, 1993), to discover how vitriolic this argument can become. Charges of blasphemy, heresy, and even stupidity, fly thick from some elements of the KJV Only movement. Thankfully, not all who hold to this position engage in such name-calling, but sadly the movement as a whole is marked by this kind of invective. The willingness of individuals such as Peter Ruckman to dehumanize those who disagree with him through personal attack breeds an "us versus them" mentality in those who buy into the KJV Only position. Anyone who would seek to reason with these individuals runs the risk of being identified as an "enemy of God’s Word," i.e., the KJV.

Responsibility must be laid at the door of the KJV Only camp for the destruction of many Christian churches. Church splits have taken place as the direct result of the influence of KJV Only materials on elders, deacons, and other influential members. Many pastors have become quite wary of these materials, having experienced great troubles at the hands of those who become mesmerized by the KJV Only cry.

This book is written because of a desire for peace in the church of Jesus Christ. We are not speaking of a peace that is purchased at the price of compromise, but a peace that comes from single-minded devotion to the things of God. Our relationship with Jesus Christ is not based upon a particular Bible translation. Men and women had fine Christian lives for fifteen hundred years before the KJV came on the scene. Obviously one can live such a life without ever opening a KJV Bible. The church should not be distracted by even well-meaning people who seek to force others to read one particular translation of the Bible.

The KJV Only controversy feeds upon the ignorance among Christians regarding the origin, transmission, and translation of the Bible. Those who have taken the time to study this area are not likely candidates for induction into the KJV Only camp. Having a firm grasp of the issues that arise in transmitting an ancient text to the modern day and then translating that text from a rich foreign language into our less rich English tongue is not only vital in providing an answer to the KJV Only advocates, but it is also extremely important to the Christian mission in our day. As we proclaim the Gospel to an ever more skeptical world, we must be clear on why we believe the Bible to be God’s Word. This calls us to be students of that book, and requires us to study its history and the reasons for our trust in its veracity and accuracy.

The Christian who wishes to "give a reason for the hope" that is within him will be quite alarmed at the logical conclusions that are to be derived from the KJV Only perspective. The body of this work will demonstrate that the KJV Only position is forced to make statements about the Bible that in reality undercut the very foundations of the faith itself. Furthermore, KJV Only supporters have to downplay the importance of properly translating various passages of Scripture that are central to the demonstration of the deity of Christ so as to maintain the alleged infallibility of the KJV (see chapter 8). Christian people who believe that the faith is true and able to withstand scrutiny cannot allow such assertions to pass unchallenged.

It is very important to understand the motivation behind this book. This book is not being written to push one particular translation of the Bible over another. There is no desire to get everyone to read the NASB, or the NIV, or the NKJV, or the RSV, or any other ?modern? translation. On the other hand, I am not in any way seeking to stop those who use the KJV from reading that venerable translation. This book is not against the King James Version. I know many fine Christian people who use the KJV and for whom the translation works just fine. However, 1 do oppose those who would force others to use the KJV or risk God’s wrath for allegedly questioning His Word. / oppose KJV Onlyism, not the King James Version itself.

It is not our intention to provide a history or even a full description of the KJV Only movement. This work is not designed to respond to specific individuals within that camp. Rather, the wish is to provide a broad response to the general claims, providing a reasoned response to the concept that there is any particular translation of the Bible in English that God requires the faithful Christian to use. There will also be an examination of the most commonly cited passages in the Holy Scriptures that are utilized by KJV Only advocates to "make their case."

The author of this work is a biblical conservative. In light of this, there are a number of Bible translations that I would not personally recommend. This work does not seek, by responding to the KJV Only position, to give carte blanche to any and all beliefs or theories that might be put forward under the guise of "academic freedom." I am no friend to those who would seek to undercut the very foundations of the Christian faith. Indeed, it is a concern for the integrity of the faith that drives this reply to the KJV Only position, for the cause of conservative values in the Christian faith is by no means aided by the existence of the KJV Only camp. The willingness of many to sacrifice all semblance of logic and rationality in the cause of defending a great, yet imperfect, translation of the Bible as if it were inspired is used by skeptics as evidence of how "backwards" conservatives as a whole truly are.

Whatever factors have motivated you to pick up this volume, let us ask for this one thing: a willingness to listen, to think, and to consider. Much time has been taken to hear the KJV Only position in its many and varied expressions. I have gone to great lengths to be accurate in representing a many-faceted movement. I ask only the same in return. Critical thought is encouraged, not in a humanistic sense whereby man is set up as some sort of demigod, capable of judging even the things of God by his own puny standards. Rather, I encourage the thinking that is marked by wisdom, a wisdom that examines the facts and holds to the highest standard of truth. Christians should not engage in circular reasoning and unfair argumentation. The KJV Only controversy should be examined in such a way that all of us, no matter what our perspective, seek to be consistent in our thinking, consistent in our argumentation, consistent in our beliefs.

Finally, for those who come to this discussion with deep and long-standing commitments to the Authorized Version (AV, as we shall call it at times), please consider well the necessity of examining your beliefs, no matter how cherished they may be, on the basis of God’s truth. We all have our traditions. Yes, even those who claim to "go by the Bible alone" have their traditions, and the more aware we are of our traditions, the more fully we can test them by Scripture. Those who are blind to their own traditions are the least likely to be fully biblical in their beliefs. We all must constantly test our faith by Scripture, and we must pray for a willingness to abandon those beliefs that are found to be contrary to God’s revealed truth.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pgs. III-VIII.
Chapter 1: "King James Only"
The Role of Christian Freedom
The use of a particular English translation of the Bible is surely a personal choice. Many factors can, and should, go into your decisions as you purchase Bible translations. Whether you like a more literal, formal translation, or a more "dynamic," free-flowing translation will impact your choices. Study editions, companion volumes, concordances, even the print style and size, are all issues to take into consideration. What translation is predominant in your local church is important as well, especially if you will be teaching or leading Bible studies. But one thing that should never be a factor is intimidation. You should never have to wonder if you are going to be accepted by others if you use an NIV rather than a KJV (or vice versa!). Fellowship should never be based upon the English translation one carries and studies.

I firmly believe that if people wish to use the KJV, they should feel free to do so. If they find its poetic form, its rhythmic beauty, to be preferable to "modern language," let no one be critical. God made us all differently, for which we should be very grateful. But while quick to grant this freedom to others, it cannot be expected that this freedom would be given by those who have joined the KJV Only movement. For them this is not an issue of freedom, but of doctrine, belief, and faith. While never making their use of the KJV a barrier to our having fellowship with them, sadly, they very often make my use of anything but the KJV an impediment to our relationship. That sharing in the gospel of Christ can be disrupted by such an issue should cause anyone a moment’s reflection, and more than passing concern.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 5.
Chapter 2: "If it Ain’t Broke "
And the Beat Goes On
It would be funny, if it were not so serious. Jerome takes the heat for translating the Vulgate, which eventually becomes the standard. Erasmus then takes the heat for challenging Jerome and for publishing the Greek New Testament. Then, four hundred years later, it is Erasmus’ work itself, in the form of the Textus Receptus, which has become enshrined as "tradition" by advocates of the AV! He who once resisted tradition has become the tradition itself. The cycle continues. Will there someday be an "NIV Only" movement? We can only hope not.

There is nothing wrong with tradition, as long as we do not confuse tradition with truth. As soon as we become more attached to our traditions than we are to the truth, we are in very deep trouble. The best tradition is that which is recognized for exactly what it is: a tradition that may help us to worship God or serve Him better, but which is not in and of itself the embodiment of truth. Traditions must be tested, and that includes traditions that touch on the use of particular translations or texts. As soon as we make our tradition the test of someone else’s standing with God (as people did to Jerome, Erasmus, and today to those who would use a translation other than the KJV), we have elevated that tradition to a status that is anti-biblical.

Before we can enter into the specifics of Erasmus’ work, and hence the translation of the KJV itself, we need to lay a groundwork in the history of the biblical text itself, and to this topic we now turn.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 17.
Chapter 3: "Start at the Beginning"
A Final Word on the text of the New Testament
KJV Only advocates are quick to assert that those who do not join them in making the KJV the final authority in all things do not believe in the "preservation of the Scriptures." Almost all KJV Only books will contain a section on how God has promised to preserve His words, and they will, of course, assume that these "words" are found in the KJV. At this point they believe themselves to be holding the "high ground" in the debate, fighting for a belief that all Christians would naturally defend: the idea that God has revealed himself, and has done so in such a way that we can continue to know that revelation perfectly today.

The problem with the position taken by the defender of the AV is that he has not demonstrated that his way is the only way to understand the idea of "preservation." Does God have to preserve His Word in the way KJV Only advocates believe? Or might God have done this in another way?

Our brief look at the history of the text of the New Testament suggests that there might be a way other than "re-inspiring" the entire Bible (as some would have us believe God did in 1611), or even supernaturally guiding men to give us a particular translation. What if God preserved His Word in a much less flashy way?

When we look at how God led His people to recognize the canon of Scripture, the listing of the books that were inspired over against those books which were not, we note that God did not engage in any celestial fireworks in the process. No angels showed up with golden tablets marked "Divine Index." Instead, God worked with His people over time, leading them to recognize what He had already done through the act of inspiration. It took time, and some might wish for a more "spectacular" method, but God did it in His way, in His time.

The same thing is true regarding the protection and preservation of the text of the Bible. One might well see a tremendous amount of divine wisdom in the way in which God worked over the years. By having the text of the New Testament in particular "explode" across the known world, ending up in the far-flung corners of the Roman Empire in a relatively short period of time, God protected that text from the one thing that we could never detect: the wholesale change of doctrine or theology by one particular man or group who had full control over the text at any one point in its history. You see, because the New Testament books were written at various times, and were quickly copied and distributed as soon as they were written, there was never a time when any one man, or any group of men, could gather up all the manuscripts and make extensive changes in the text itself, such as cutting out the deity of Christ, or inserting some foreign doctrine or concept. No one could gather up the texts and try to make them all say the same thing by "harmonizing" them, either. If someone had indeed done such a thing, we could never know for certain what the apostles had written, and what the truth actually is. But such a thing did not, and could not, happen. Indeed, by the time anyone did obtain great ecclesiastical power in the name of Christianity, texts like p66 or p75 were already long buried in the sands of Egypt, out of the reach of anyone who would try to alter them. The fact that their text is nearly identical to even the most "Byzantine" manuscript of 1,000 years later is testimony to the overall purity of the New Testament text.

The side effect of this method of preserving the New Testament is the relatively small amount of textual variation that we will be discussing extensively below. But one point must be emphasized. Dr. Kurt Aland has pointed out what he calls the tenacity of the New Testament text. This refers to the fact that once a variant reading appears in a manuscript, it doesn’t simply go away. It gets copied and ends up in other manuscripts. Why is this important? It is important because readings don’t just "disappear" in the New Testament. And that means that we still have the original readings of the New Testament works. You see, if readings could just "disappear" without a trace, we would have to face the fact that the original reading may have "fallen through the cracks" as well. But the tenacity of the New Testament text, while forcing us to deal with textual variants, also provides us with the assurance that our work is not in vain. One of those variant readings is indeed the original. We are called to invest our energies in discovering which one it is.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 47-48.
Chapter 4: "Putting it Together"
A Grand Work
Hopefully we can better analyze the claims of the KJV Only movement in light of the facts of how the KJV came into existence. The King James Version is a monument to those who labored to bring it into existence. Of this there can be no question. But as we have seen, it was a human process, and as in all of human life and endeavor, it did not partake of infallibility.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 82.
Chapter 5: "The King James Only Camp"

The term "misrepresentation" seems, at times, simply too mild to describe this kind of writing. And when one remembers that this is ‘ directed toward servants of Christ who are working to proclaim His truth in churches and missionary works all over the land and even the world, one has trouble passing over Dr. __________’s invective in silence.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 121.
Chapter 6: "Translational Differences"
No Grand Conspiracies
It seems fair to say that, in a majority of the passages examined in the preceding pages, translations such as the NASB and NIV have been seen to surpass the KJV with reference to clarity and ease of comprehension far more often than the reverse. No grand conspiracies have been uncovered, no attempts to hide doctrines or beliefs by mistranslating the text have been found. What we have discovered is that the comparison of various translations of the Bible is often very useful in ascertaining the meaning of the passage being studied, and that the KJV is one of those many fine translations available for just that task. When used in conjunction with such fine modern translations as the NKJV, NIV, and NASB, the KJV adds a noble rendering to the list and is often helpful in grasping the literal meaning of the terms involved.

We hope it has also become clear that we must be very careful to look closely at the claims of those who would attack the work of Christian scholars as found in the NKJV or NIV. Most of the time a translation that differs from the KJV is just as valid and reliable as the one found in the AV itself, and frequently, it is more clear and understandable. When differences are examined in a context of seeking to understand the reasons for the differences, rather than in one of fear and emotion, we learn more about the Word and the original intents of the authors. This is how Christian dialogue and discussion should take place. Whenever you encounter a supposed "change" in the Bible’s text, take the time to look carefully at the available information. You will discover that there are reasons for the differences, and that there is no rationale at all for running to theories of conspiracies or evil intentions on the part of modern translators. Their goal is not to corrupt God’s Word but to preserve it and accurately pass it on to future generations.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 146-147.
Chapter 7: "Textual Differences"
Modern Texts Found Innocent
Conspiratorial thinking tends to see the "facts" in such a way as to always support one’s preconceived notions. Once a person has accepted the idea that the ?modern versions? are somehow in league with one another to "get" the KJV and to "hide" God’s truths, every instance of variation between the KJV and those versions is filled with great importance. Rather than examining the facts and gaining a proper perspective on the issue, KJV Only advocates find in the most innocent scribal error a grand scheme to rob Christ of His deity or deny that salvation is by grace through faith. Yet, even a cursory examination of the facts is sufficient to make the reasoning behind the modern versions and their textual choices plain and understandable for those who are willing to listen.

Those who use a modern translation that was produced by godly men who were seeking simply to follow the best texts of the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament, and to faithfully translate those texts into the English language, can have great confidence that they are reading God’s Word in the best form in which it can be found in their language. The comparison of these translations against one another only serves to sharpen our understanding of the intention of the original authors. And when textual variants appear in footnotes or in comparison with the KJV, believers can be assured that these things arose not because of some attempt to hide the truth from them, but due to the very understandable actions of scribes down through the centuries who were themselves doing their best to accurately copy those precious manuscripts. Rather than being fearful that they can’t be "certain" about what God has revealed, they should rejoice that God has made it possible for them to have and hold His Word, and they should seek to obey His will that is so clearly presented therein. The preacher and teacher can proclaim God’s truth from the pages of such a translation with the full assurance that he is proclaiming the whole counsel of God, and can trust God with the results.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 186-187.
Chapter 8: "The Son of God, the Lord of Glory"
Modern Translations Vindicated Again
The doctrine of the deity of Christ is indeed a vitally important issue. But we have seen that KJV Only advocates are, in fact, guilty of using an important doctrine as a brickbat to further their promotion of the KJV. Their arguments have been found, again, to be utterly inconsistent and most often circular. Modern translations such as the NIV and NASB have been cleared of the accusations made against them, not by appeal to emotion or through use of insulting rhetoric, but by examination of the facts themselves. Surely we must decry the use | of such a precious doctrine as the deity of Christ in the way we have seen it used by advocates of the AV. Such is surely not a proper use of such an important Christian belief. And what is worse, we have often seen that passages that do testify to the deity of Christ, and hence should be shared with those who have been deceived on this topic, are often translated more clearly in the modern translations than in the KJV. Followers of the prophets of KJV Onlyism are, therefore, less prepared to defend the faith than those who have not limited themselves to a single English translation from the seventeenth century.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 219.
Chapter 9: "Problems in the KJV"

It needs to be emphasized one more time that the preceding information is not meant to "bash" the KJV, but to treat it as its translators would have desired. Any result of human effort will be, in some measure, flawed. And despite the strong assertions of some in the KJV Only camp, the AV is the result of human effort, human skill, human work. As a result, we are able to locate problems, ranging from unclear translations to simple mistranslations, such as Acts 5:30. This is exactly what one would expect given the background of the KJV, but it is not what one would expect if the claims of KJV Only defenders regarding supernatural oversight or even inspiration are true. The presence of errors and mishaps in the text of the KJV is an insurmountable obstacle for those who wish to proclaim the KJV inspired, inerrant, and infallible.
The King James Only Controversy. James R. White. 1995. Bethany House Publishers. Minneapolis, MN 55438.
Pg. 237-238.
Let The Reader Understand
This book has been a plea for understanding. It is my desire that the reader, upon completing this work, will first and foremost have a desire to understand why our English translations of the Bible read as they do. This is the one thing that I have found to be lacking in most KJV Only advocates with whom I have spoken: a desire to truly know why someone might be willing to use something other than the KJV, to really understand why some readings in the modern translations are, in fact, superior to those in the KJV. You cannot get far with a person who does not wish to travel with you. And I well know that many who are in the KJV Only camp will never set foot upon the path I have attempted to clear in the past pages.

I have written this work for the person who has a godly desire to know the truth. I have not attempted to convince the already convinced. I have written for those who are seeking answers, facts, explanations. I have been prompted by the honest inquiries, the concerned questions, of those who wonder about the claims made by KJV Only advocates. 1 have sought to be of assistance to the beleaguered pastor who does not need yet another problem cropping up in the congregation. And 1 admit to a desire to aid in the vindication of men of God who have labored diligently in the field of textual study and translation, a field hardly fraught with riches and glory. The constant denigration of their work, their spirituality, and even their intelligence cries out for a solid refutation and even rebuke, and 1 hope to have provided that in these pages.

King James Onlyism is a human tradition. It has no basis in history. It has no foundation in fact. It is internally inconsistent, utilizing circular reasoning at its core, and involves the use of more double standards than almost any system of thought I have ever encountered. And yet it is embraced by fellow believers, and as such must be addressed if I am to follow Christ’s command, "Love one another."

The facts of the matter are now before you, the reader. Whatever you decide I pray that your deepest desire will be to believe only what is true, nothing that is false. I hope that you will be challenged to dig deeper, to become a student of the Word who is not dependent upon this writer or that "authority," but one who can draw from the rich supply of wisdom and knowledge that is available to us in our day, doing this solely and only to the glory of God.
Finally, as 1 said at the beginning, my desire is for the peace of Christ’s church. I truly hope that this work will help to quell restless spirits in congregations who are by their zealousness for a human tradition (KJV Onlyism) causing dissension and discord. May the facts of the matter, rather than the emotions of the moment, convince such people to refrain from disturbing the brethren, and may the church focus instead upon the weighty and important issues that face her.

FROM: http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/Bible/kjv_only.html
 

Madad21

Boast in Christ
Dec 28, 2013
1,108
39
0
Stan I would probably just stop talking to someone so immature, if ya notice nobody else can be bothered with him and no ones going to teach him anything.
He's already said a bunch of stuff that has made it pretty clear to all the type of personality were dealing with. If anyone was to read his posts in context it wouldn't take long to get the picture. He started with this and been rebuked and he continues to fight against reason which is plainly evident in the manipulative way he deals with the posts of others.

John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

Much love and respect bro.
 

StanJ

Lifelong student of God's Word.
May 13, 2014
4,798
111
63
70
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Madad21 said:
Stan I would probably just stop talking to someone so immature, if ya notice nobody else can be bothered with him and no ones going to teach him anything.
He's already said a bunch of stuff that has made it pretty clear to all the type of personality were dealing with. If anyone was to read his posts in context it wouldn't take long to get the picture. He started with this and been rebuked and he continues to fight against reason which is plainly evident in the manipulative way he deals with the posts of others.

John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

Much love and respect bro.
Apparently he's a she based on some of the posts under that name, but who knows. May just be a troll or a demon. You're right though, and it is going on my ignore list.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

This is all we need to know...
This is heresy placed before your very eyes, at the alter of Knowledge. The tactic is called "Lying with the truth." Satan also “knows” that God’s word goes out from God’s mouth -- so what? Dear reader, what is it, that is “all we need to know”? The above scripture, presumed to be the gospel, is not the gospel i.e. “knowing” anything leads NO ONE to SALVATION. Dear reader, do you discern what is missing? Where is the blood?

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud, blasphemers...unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection...false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good...highminded...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 2 Tim. 3:1-9

I for one rebuke you in Jesus' name.
The Holy Bible teaches that the ability to rebuke and cast out devils is not a talisman that can be appropriated. Rather, such ability requires an unwavering personal faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. Mormonism, with its ‘celestial kingdoms,’ doesn’t have it. Calvinism, with its ‘pre-picked tulips,’ doesn’t have it. JW, with its ‘144,000,’ doesn’t have it. J. B. Phillips, one of StanJ's 'recommended' demon infested necromancers and new version ‘editors,’ doesn’t have it. Once again, the blood is missing.

Earlier we mentioned the folly of worshipping at the monuments of men. For example,

I will stand up for ALL men who have tried to make the Greek and Hebrew texts more understandable for ALL languages including English, but those who insist on supporting the nonsense that ANY language but the Greek or Hebrew autographs was inspired, is deceived and living in a false reality.
“I will stand up for ALL men...”? It won’t do him any good when he ”stands up” before the King of kings and spouts that humanistic drivel. Rather, this man needs to fall down on his knees. Folks, it’s the complete faith in the blood of Jesus that must be claimed and declared -- and nothing else.

The born again believers are not of “ALL men.” We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6)

Even worse are those that support the nonsense that a four hundred year old Elizabethan English translation was inspired of God.
We know all scripture (indeed, every word of God) is pure and is given by inspiration of God. By StanJ’s own “nonsense,” then, he does not have the Scripture! But this commoner does! It happens to be God’s COMMON BIBLE given to the COMMON man in the COMMON language of the day. For English-speaking people today, it’s the text-type from antiquity preserved by God i.e. the Authorized Version. Dear reader, how about you? Thank you, Jesus!

One again, concerning the OP, zeke25 is spot-on with the following:

[SIZE=8pt] Now we have said that 99.9% of those 5000+ manuscripts agree with each other almost[/SIZE]
perfectly, but what about the other .1%??? These are commonly called the MINORITY TEXTS, but
they are also known to many as the corrupted manuscripts. For much unlike the 5000+, these five
manuscripts are radically different. They do not even agree with each other. Their names are as
follows:
Codex Vatican B
Codex Sinaiticus (Aleph)
Codex Alexandrian (A)
Codex Ephraemi C
Codex Bezae (D)
If we are to understand the foundation of the NIV, it is critical to understand that the NIV is translated
from these five manuscripts above which do not agree with one another.

Westcott and Hort were the original textual critics of their day. Though they no longer live, their
legacy lives on in the form of a corrupted Greek text. The influence of their methods blackens and
corrupts every modern translation of the Bible available (NIV, NASB, NKJV, NRSV, NAB, REB, RSV,
CEV, TEV, GNB, LIVING, PHILLIPS, NEW JERUSALEM, NEW CENTURY, and the New Word
Translation). Readers of these new Bibles are quite unaware that they are reading the translation of a
corrupt text. Without thinking or looking deeper into the matter, they blindly assume that every Bible
is the same. They assume some are just more easy to read than others. But we must remember that
Bibles are translated by men, and thus corruption is possible. Westcott and Hort did what was
unthinkable.....they picked through five Greek texts which did not agree with each other, and came up
with a new revised Greek version of the Bible. All modern Bibles of the day have therefore not been
translated from the 5000+ Majority text, but from the 5 disagreeing witnesses. Which Bible do you
think is more reliable? Isn't it better to trust that God preserved His Word in the 5000+ witnesses rather
than the five witnesses who do not agree with each other? The KJV is a straight translation from the
Majority text. The NIV (and others) is taken from the five Minority texts, which do not agree. We
don't even know what part of which text they used and where! The consensus however is they favored
the Aleph and B text more than the others.
All StanJ has is his anti-KJVO rhetoric; he can’t seem to understand that I don’t “fit” into his propaganda machine -- I am foreign to him. It’s never been about the KJV -- the KJV’s been around for only four hundred years! It’s not about scholarship; it’s about the blood. StanJ is sooooo SO, i.e. Scholarship-Only. I could do the same as he has done, and spam this site with anti-SO propaganda, but I don’t need to, because I have the truth, the priceless blood -- and not the worthless diplomas, credentials, copyrighted inventions and backslaps of mere men. None of the countless men's "Exclusivity Cults" have the blood.

The fear comes in for these Nicolaitans when they realize they could lose their kingdoms they’ve built on the backs of the sheeple: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on [Christ Jesus]: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. (John 11:48, 53). They’re afraid of losing their status and their stuff.

Nothing has changed to this day.

Continuing with his “worshipping at the monuments of men” theme:

Also the sad pathetic attempt to denigrate Westcott & Hort...
What is “sad and pathetic” is that his beloved Westcott and Hort were also necromancers and spiritualists and worse. Sound familiar? Kindred spirits seek to communicate with one another, but Satan cannot cast out Satan -- because there’s no blood there.

So we’ll take a closer look at the ‘highly esteemed’ Westcott and Hort. If you’re a born again believer in Jesus Christ, saved by the blood, what you are about to learn will shock you. And the effort will be made incredibly easy. Rather than going out to buy the autobiography of StanJ's ‘recommended’ demon-infested necromancer for its documentation, I will include the links with which you can download, for free, the primary documentation directly re: Westcott and Hort, for your own perusal and verification, in your own time.
 

sojourner4Christ

sojourning non-citizen
May 23, 2014
388
8
18
.
We’ll take a peek into the personal lives of heretics Wescott and Hort in a minute.

Dear reader, in post #109, we saw the problem with man's textual criticism laid out before us. Many of you believe that God inspired men to write God's words and, therefore, 'we better make certain we have “scholars” and “credentialed” “EXPERTS” doing the writing.'

This is why there is the push for 'bigger and better bibles,' that appear "pleasing to the eyes" and "to make one wise," that come with the highest recommendations of the 'scholars' who offer periodic "updates" of their findings to their yes-men and other subscribers. It also explains why those modern versions of the Holy Bible must be copyrighted -- they are not an inspired work of God but works of men who claim owner$hip of them.

We will speak casually for a moment. Let’s take a look at the relevant passage:

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim. 3:15-17 AV

Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!

Notice that it is God who gives scripture -- not man. Man does not even feature in this verse.

Notice that the purpose of God giving to man God’s inspired scripture is so “that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Notice how God gives scripture -- by inspiration. Nowhere does it say that God inspired men! “All scripture is given by inspiration of God.” God’s Spirit (i.e. inspiration) is the vehicle with which God ‘gives all scripture’ -- God does not give scripture via any man, or by inspiring any man, or by any other means. Thus, God’s scripture has life -- it is alive, it is the living Spirit-filled words of God. Conversely, man does not have life; outside of God, man is dead. Yes, man has breath, but mere breath is not life; God’s Spirit is life. The words of men are mere breaths; whereas God’s word is Life itself. The reality of the inspiration of scripture has no connection with any efforts of man.

This living quality of scripture puzzles those who are not born again. It even puzzles those who are born again but who have had their thought processes impaired by spiritual deception.

Don’t let the wanna-be scholars deceive you by their attempts to shift the inspiration of God’s living Spirit-filled words to man’s mere breath. So the next time you hear, “only the ‘Hebrew and Greek’ is the inspired text,” you’ll know the truth of the matter.

God's pattern has always been the same: He gives the COMMON man the COMMON bible in the COMMON language of the day, to do one thing -- evangelize the world. Acts 2:6 says, "Every man heard them speak in his own language." God has spoken to men around the world through a text like the KJV in the German Tepl Bible, the Italian Diodati Bible, the French Olivetan Bible, the Hungarian Erdosi Bible, the Spanish Valera Bible, the Polish Visoly Bible, the De Grave Bible in Holland, the Russian Holy Synodal Bible, the German Luther Bible, and the Gottshcalkson Bible of Iceland. These all agree with the King James Version. The King James Bible Society (527 Benjulyn Rd., Cantonment, Florida) keeps a list of good foreign Bibles and missionaries in agreement with the KJV. People looking around in their church think everyone uses an NIV or another new version. That may be true within the context of their limited vision, but when looking back at the history of the church around the world, you will see, for example, that those 64,000 missing words in the NIV have not been missing through the history of the church.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Mat. 10:22

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark 13:13

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. Luke 21:17


[SIZE=24pt]Westcott & Hort[/SIZE]

The unsound doctrines in new versions cannot be examined without realizing that they are only symptoms of a disease that was contracted years ago.

New versions (and the ‘new’ church they are producing) owe their occult bend to their underlying Greek text, a novelty produced in the 1880’s by Brooke Foss Westcott, a London Spiritualist, and his cohort, Fenton John Anthony Hort. Secular historians and numerous occult books see Westcott as ‘the Father’ of the current channeling phenomenon, a major source of the ‘doctrines of devils’ driving the New Age movement.

The New Age movement’s expressed goal of infiltrating the evangelical church and gradually changing the bible to conform to its One World Religion is evident in the current new versions. Their words and doctrines prepare the apostate church of these last days to accept the Antichrist, his mark, image, and religion -- Lucifer worship.

This has taken place because the editors of the new versions, as well as the authors of the Greek editions, manuscripts, lexicons and dictionaries used in their compilation, hold beliefs which an orthodox Christian would find shocking. Research opens the door exposing them in seance parlors, mental institutions, prison cells and courtrooms for heresy trials. A surprising number of new version editors have permanently lost their ability to speak (five and still counting).

Westcott and Hort wrote the Greek text underlying the new versions. A look into their private thoughts, via their personal correspondence preserved in their biographies, reveals the thoughts and activities of these men.

Their activities described here were occurring while they were deciding what does and does not belong in the bible.

All references can be downloaded, and documentation verified, free-of-charge, here.

Let’s take a look, via a timeline, at some of their New Age heresies (all emphasis mine).

1840
“...he took a strange interest in Mormonism...procuring and studying the Book of Mormon.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 19.)

1842
“In the evening I go with Tom to the wizard; but he does not dare perform before us.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 9.)

1845
Westcott, Hort, and Benson start the ‘Hermes’ Club.

1846
“...his diary tells of a walk to Girton with C. B. Scott in which metaphysics was discussed.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 42.)

[R]efers to evangelicals as “dangerous” and “unsound.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, pp. 44-45.)

“New doubts and old superstitions and rationalism, all trouble me...I cannot determine how much we must believe; how much in fact is necessarily required of a member of the church.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, pp. 46-47.)

1847
“So wild, so skeptical am I; I cannot yield.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 52.)

In speaking of heretic Dr. Hampden, he says, “If he be condemned, what will become of me?”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 52.)

1848
Hort refers to the “...fanaticism of bibliolaters.” He remarks, “The pure Romish view seems to me nearer and more likely to lead to truth than the evangelical.”
(Hort, Vol. I, pp. 76-77.)

“Protestantism is only parenthetical and temporary.”
(Hort, Vol II, p. 31.)

1850
Hort speaks of “...confused evangelical notions...” He says, “I spoke of the gloomy prospect should the Evangelicals carry on their present victory.”
(Hort, Vol. I, pp. 148, 160.)

Westcott was, “troubled in thought about this passage” (blasphemy against the Spirit).
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 109.)

1851
Hort joins the ‘Philosophical Society’ and comments, “Maurice urged me to give the greatest attention to Plato and Aristotle and to make them the center point of my reading.”
(Hort, Vol. I, pp. 202, 93.)

Hort refers to, “the common orthodox heresy: inspiration.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 181.)

Westcott, Hort, and Benson start the ‘Ghostly Guild.’

Westcott was ordained a ‘priest’ in the Anglican church.

Hort also joins ‘the Apostles’, a secret club.

1852
Westcott and Hort distribute ‘Ghostly Guild’ literature.

Westcott, in speaking of Revelation, admits, “On this, my views are perhaps extreme.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 225.)

Referring to the traditional Greek Text, then currently in use, Westcott says, “I am most anxious to provide something to replace them.” He admits the drastic changes he plans and calls it, “our proposed recension of the New Testament.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 229.)

1853
Hort “was diligently preparing for his ordination” into the Anglican priesthood. “It was during these weeks with Mr. Westcott, who had come to see him [Hort] at Umberslacle, that the plan of a joint revision of the text of the Greek Testament was first definitely agreed upon.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 240.)

“About this time Mr. Daniel Macmillan suggested to him [Hort] that he should take part in an interesting and comprehensive ‘New Testament Scheme’. Hort was to edit the text in conjunction with Mr. Westcott, the latter was to be responsible for a commentary, and Lightfoot was to contribute a New Testament Grammar and Lexicon.” (Hort, Vol. I, p. 241.) “He and I are going to edit a Greek text of the New Testament some two or three years hence if possible.” (Hort, Vol. I, p. 250.) “We came to a distinct and positive understanding about our Greek Text and the details thereof. We still do not wish to be talked about but are going to work at once and hope we may have it out in a little more than a year. This of course gives good employment.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 264.)

1855
“How certainly I should have been proclaimed a heretic.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 223.)

1856
“Campbell’s book on the Atonement...unluckily he knows nothing except Protestant theology.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 322.)

“I hope to go on with the New Testament Text more unremittingly.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 355.)

1857
“I am just now chiefly occupied about a proposed Cambridge translation of the whole of Plato...another scheme likely to be carried out if a publisher can be found.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 349.)

“But no doubt there was an element of mystery about Westcott. He took his turn preaching in chapel, but he dreaded and disliked the duty and he was quite inaudible.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 198.)

“The principle literary work of these years was the revision of the Greek Text of the New Testament. All spare hours were devoted to it.” “Evangelicals seem to me perverted...There are, I fear, still more serious differences between us on the subject of authority, especially the authority of the Bible.” “At present many orthodox but rational men are being unawares acted upon by influences which will assuredly bear good fruit in due time if the process is allowed to go on quietly; but I fear that a premature crisis would frighten back many into the merest traditionalism.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 400.)

1859
“I shall be very glad to learn what are the objectionable parts in my sermon: I fancied that I kept wonderfully within the limits of orthodoxy: but I trust that my object was rather to say what I felt rather than square what I say with some scheme.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 208.)

“My dear Lightfoot, thank you very much for your kind present. But why did you send beer instead of coming yourself? I have another question to ask about palimpsest fragments of the first seven chapters of St. Luke...I can testify to the high value of the MS [manuscript].”
(Hort, Vol. I, pp. 403-404.)

1860
“If only we speak our minds, we shall not be able to avoid giving grave offense to...the miscalled orthodoxy of the day.”
(Hort, Vol, I, p. 421.)

“I...looked at the Christian Observer[‘s]...condemnation of my heresy.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 241.)

“If you make a decided conviction of the absolute infallibility of the New Testament a sine qua non for cooperation, I fear I could not join you.”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 420.)

“[M]y doubts about infallibility [remain]. Lightfoot wants you to take Hebrews, if it does not go to Benson [Ghostly Guild].”
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 422.)

“I reject the word infallibility of Holy Scriptures overwhelmingly.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 207.)

“I am also glad that you take the same provisional ground as to infallibility that I do...In our rapid correspondence about the New Testament, I have been forgetting Plato. (Hort’s letter to Lightfoot, Hort, Vol. I, p. 424.)

1861
“...imputations of heresy and the like against me.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 222.)

“[T]his may be cowardice -- I have sort of a craving that our text should be cast upon the world before we deal with matters likely to brand us with suspicion. I mean, a text issued by men who are already known for what will undoubtedly be treated as dangerous heresy will have great difficulty in finding its way to regions which it might otherwise hope to reach and whence it would not be easily banished by subsequent alarms.”
(Hort’s letter to Westcott regarding their writing other things.)
(Hort, Vol. I, p. 445.)

1865
“[T]he idea of La Salette [appearances of the Virgin] was that of God revealing Himself, now, not in one form, but in many.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 251.)

During his trip to visit the shrine of the Virgin he stopped in Milan to make “examination of the Muritorian Fragment of the Canon.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 254.)

1866
“All the questionable doctrines which I have ever maintained are in it.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 290.)

1869
“We must somehow contrive...some way of adding to income.”
(Hort, Vol. II, p. 108.)

“Westcott urges me to try what writing will do.”
(Hort, Vol. II, p. 110.)

1870
“Dr. Butler calls him [Westcott]...mysterious...His voice reached but a few and was understood by still fewer.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 272.)

“Dr. Westcott and myself have for about seventeen years been preparing a Greek text...we hope to have it out early next year.”
(Hort, Vol. II, p. 137.)

“...strike blindly...much evil would result from the public discussion.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 229.)

1871
“I shall aim at what is transcendental in many peoples eyes...I suppose I am a communist by nature.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 309.)

Westcott, Hort, and Lightfoot were invited to join the Revision Committee of the New Testament. “Westcott believes we ought to seize the opportunity especially since we three are on the list.”
(Hort, Vol, II, p. 133.)

1872
Westcott, Hort and Lightfoot begin the Eranus Club (the “we three” of the Ghostly Guild). Sidgwick and Balfour, of upcoming Society for Psychical Research, also join Eranus.

[Work on New Testament revision continues, 1871-1881.]

1873
“Truth is so wonderfully large.”
(Westcott, Vol. I, p. 333.)

1877
Eranus meet in Hort’s room.

1881
“Our Bible as well as our Faith is a mere compromise.”
(Westcott, On the Canon of the New Testament: A General Survey, p. vii.)

“[T]he work which has gone on now for nearly 30years was brought to a conclusion.”
(Hort, Vol. II, p. 234.) (The Revised Version and ‘New’ Greek are published; or is he talking about the Ghostly Guild, which also began exactly 30 years ago and inspired the Society for Psychical Research in 1882?)

1882
“The truth seems to me to be so overwhelmingly vast and manifold that I shrink from drawing any outline except provisionally.”
(Westcott, Vol. II)

1889
“Life and truth grow more and more mysterious.”
(Westcott, Vol. II, p. 61.)

1893
“He sometimes with much seriousness professed to be much drawn to beer...”
(Westcott, Vol. II, p. 178.)

“His zeal in the cause of pure beer involved him in a correspondence which was published in the newspapers in the later part of 1893 and his picture together with some of the following words spoken by him, was utilized for the adornment of the advertisement of a brewer of pure beer.” “My idea is that they might have a public house in which good beer alone would be sold...I consider pure beer...to be an innocent and wholesome beverage...ubstitutes for malt...is not what the purchaser demands nor expects.” [Westcott’s letter written to Brewer’s Society in complaint against inferior beer]
(Westcott, Vol. II, pp. 218-219, 177.)

1896
“The Prohibitionists once more showed themselves to be unstatesmanlike...”
(Westcott, Vol. II, p. 238.)

1899
“But from my Cambridge days I have read the writings of many who are called mystics with much profit.”
(Westcott, Vol. II, p. 309.)

miscellaneous:

Both Wescott and Hort assert that the devil is not a person but a general “power of evil.”
(Wescott, Commentary on 1-3 John, p. 106.)

Hort’s hostility to the well-known Trinity verse, I John 5:7+8, haunts his writings. “It could be gotten rid of...” he stabs. (The Life of Hort, Vol. II, p. 128.) Today one NIV editor admits, “It is the strongest statement in the KJV on the Trinity.” (The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation, p. 56.) So out it goes from the NIV; its omission is masked to readers because the NIV steals some of verse 8 and calls it verse 7. The NASB’s sleight of hand instead slipped out some of verse 6 and calls it 7.

From the OP:

The changes being made in the modern versions are not incidental. They are part of a satanic agenda to undermine key Biblical teachings and prepare the population for an all-inclusive one world religion.
For a third time, the thesis of the OP has been tried and found worthy.

Beware of Satan’s new age bible versions.

“It doesn’t matter if the info came from a deacon or a dumpster -- trust but verify!”

Much research was conducted on documentation found in:
New Age Bible Versions, Fifteenth printing, 2008
[SIZE=8pt] ISBN-10:[/SIZE][SIZE=8pt] 0963584502[/SIZE]

-- Thank you, my sister, for your selfless assistance!
 

lforrest

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Admin
Aug 10, 2012
5,602
6,859
113
Faith
Christian
The topic is closed due to JW propaganda.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.