New World Order Bible Versions

[walls of jericho941]

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That's scholars for ya. Their above conclusion is incorrect. Here's why:
You may be surprised to know that the word "passover" did not even exist before William Tyndale coined it for his version of 1526-31. His was also the first English Bible to use "Easter." Previously the Hebrew and Greek were left untranslated. For example, in Wycliffe's Bible, which was based on the Latin, we find pask or paske.
An article which appeared in the Trinitarian Bible Society Quarterly Record states:When Tyndale applied his talents to the translation of the New Testament from Greek into English, he was not satisfied with the use of a completely foreign word, and decided to take into acount the fact that the season for the passover was known generally to English people as "Easter"...Tyndale has ester or easter fourteen times, ester-lambe eleven times, esterfest once, and paschall lambe three times.
When he began his translation of the Pentateuch, he was again faced with the problem in Exodus 12:11 and twenty-one other places, and no doubt recognising that easter in this context would be an anachronism, he coined a new word, passover and used it consistently in all twenty-two places. It is, therefore, to Tyndale that our language is indebted for this meaningful and appropriate word (date of article unknown).The English versions after Tyndale followed his example in the Old Testament and increasingly replaced "Easter" with "Passover" in the New Testament. When we come to the Authorized Version, there remained but one instance of the word "Easter" -- Acts 12:4.

It is precisely in this one passage that "Easter" must be used, and the translation "Passover" would have conflicted with the immediate context. In their rush to accuse the Authorized Version of error, many have not taken the time to consider what the passage actually says:
....(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)...intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
To begin with, the Passover occurred before the feast of unleavened bread, not after!
And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. (Number 28:16-17). See also Mark 14:12, I Cor. 5:7-8, etc.
Herod put Peter in prison during the days of unleavened bread , and therefore after the Passover. The argument that the translation "Passover" should have been used as it is intended to refer to the entire period, is ruled out by the inclusion of "these were the days of unleavened bread." Scripture does not use the word "Passover" to refer to the entire period.
Peloubet's Bible Dictionary says:Strictly speaking the Passover only applied to the paschal supper and the feast of unleavened bread followed (p. 486).Therefore, as the Passover had already been observed, and the days of unleavened bread were in progress, and yet Herod was still waiting for "after pascha;" we can only conclude that the word must be taken in a broader sense. History in fact does indicate a pagan and Christian interchange with the word through the translation "Easter."
A. W. Watts writes:The Latin and Greek word for Easter is pascha, which is simply a form of the Hebrew word for passover -- pesach (Easter - Its Story and Meaning, p. 36).Thus, the word came to be associated with both Christian and pagan observance. And it was to this latter that Herod was referring.
In an excellent study, from which some of the above has been drawn, Raymond Blanton explains (in quotations from Alexander Hislop) that Easter is Ishtar, the queen of heaven and goddess of spring:The "pascha" that Herod was waiting for was evidently the celebration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz, the Sun god. The sunrise services today are a continuation of that pagan worship.
"...the great annual festival in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz, which was celebrated by alternate weeping and rejoicing and which, in many countries, was considerably later than the Christian festival, being observed in Palestine and Assyria in June. To conciliate the Pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome, pursuing its usual policy, took measures to get the Christian and Pagan festivals amalgamated, and, by complicated but skillful adjustment of the calendar, it was found no difficult matter, in general, to get Paganism and Christianity - to shake hands." (Alexander Hislop, "The Two Babylons," p. 105).Continuing his quotation from Hislop, Blanton shows:
The term Easter is of pagan origin - "It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven" (p. 103).The connection between the word Easter and Tammuz is thus -The wife of Tammuz was Ishtar (Astarte), who is called Mother Nature, who being refreshed by spring rains brings life. When Tammuz died she followed him into the underworld or realm of Eresh-Kigal, queen of the dead. In her deep grief Astarte persuaded Eresh-Kigal to allow her messenger to sprinkle Astarte and Tammuz with the water of life. By this sprinkling they had power to return into the light of the sun for six months. After which the same cycle must be repeated.
Thus, the goddess of spring or the dawn goddess is responsible for the resurrection of Tammuz. Easter is a joint worship of the two. This Satanic myth is interwoven with the sun's cycle of vernal equinox (dawn) and autumn equinox (sunset). (From "The Flaming Torch" Jan. Feb. Mar. 1987).Dake's Bible adds:Easter...is derived from Ishtar, one of the Babylonian titles of an idol goddess, the Queen of Heaven. The Saxon goddess Eastre is the same as the Astarte, the Syrian Venus, called Ashtoreth in the O. T. It was the worship of this woman by Israel that was such an abomination to God. (I Sam 7:3http://ebible.com/query?utf=8✓&quer...e=http://www.talkjesus.com/pages.php?pageid=1l I Ki 11:5, 33 II Ki 23:13; Jer 7:18; 44:18) (p. 137 N. T.).

what I said is not in error. I was not referring to the first instance of the word passover. And I hate to burst your bubble but the word passover predates tyndale by over 3000 years. Also easter and passover are not the same. It is a common misconception that they are. Passover and easter do not always fall on the same dates. Sometimes they do, but not always. The reason is due to how easter is set up dealing with the equinox. Sometimes passover and easter are two weeks apart. This is the most concrete evidence we have today that easter is of pagan orgin.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

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Your documentation is less than threadbare. You wanna try that again? Thanks.

 

[walls of jericho941]

My post is not threadbare, as you claim. Simply look at a calander and you will see passover is not always on the same date as easter. There really is no reason for me to repost the information. It only took you 7 minutes to reply, which is not really enough time to look into what I have posted, therefore your efforts to validate or de-validate what I have said are less than threadbare. If you doubt that pagan culture has crept into christian culture you need look no further than the website you are currently on. Look at the header for the main page of all the forums. Top left corner there is a symbol called a triquetra. Many christians will tell you that symbol represents the trinity.... but..... it dont. It represents the three phases of the sun. Morning noon and evening. Its a symbol for sun worship(nothing new under the sun) originaly it was three circles. The symbol can be found on apparel for witches today on websites, such as the robes they wear. This symbol of three circles is a hidden representation of three 6's. Also the word passover goes back to before the exodus, therefore tyndale or whatever version you want to quote from was not even born yet.
So to answer your question sojourner, no I dont want to try that again. I would like to inform you to go deeper in history. You might learn something.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

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Simply look at a calander and you will see passover is not always on the same date as easter.

That is not at issue.

It only took you 7 minutes to reply, which is not really enough time to look into what I have posted,

There's nothing "to look into" because all that you "have posted" is your opinions. And it's not up to me to research your opinions; rather, the onus is on you to provide verifiable info. Conversely, if you can provide documentation for your opinions, then we can move this from water cooler rumours to reasoning together the truth of the matter.

If you doubt that pagan culture has crept into christian culture you need look no further than the website you are currently on. Look at the header for the main page of all the forums. Top left corner there is a symbol called a triquetra. Many christians will tell you that symbol represents the trinity.... but..... it dont. It represents the three phases of the sun. Morning noon and evening. Its a symbol for sun worship(nothing new under the sun) originaly it was three circles. The symbol can be found on apparel for witches today on websites, such as the robes they wear. This symbol of three circles is a hidden representation of three 6's.

Concerning your asssertions here, I have researched this thoroughly myself, and I have plenty of primary source documentation which supports your opinions -- and the data proves you are 100 PERCENT demonstrably researchably CORRECT.

[concerning the word passover] I would like to inform you to go deeper in history. You might learn something.

I could do that; I could "go deeper" than the documentation I have already shown you. But you've thus far shown me nothing other than your opinion as motivation to do so. I could read the National Enquirer and get the same Op/Ed opinions. At this point, I am the only one who has provided ANY documentation, and you have provided none. It's your turn to reciprocate if you wish to be taken seriously on this issue.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[walls of jericho941]

It is a fact easter and passover are some years as much as 2 weeks apart. Thus, it is not the same day. Therefore it is a valid point. If you have a problem with the calander no amount of words I could post here would be able to help you. Secondly, you have missed my original point. Which is, there is no perfect translation and so we should study, which obviously by your words you are unwilling to even look at a calander. That is very revealing on your disposition to study. Anyone who has studied the greek and hebrew will know that much is lost in translation anyway. Another fact thats revealing to your disposition to study is the documentation you provided. Its copy and pasted from another christian forum, and based upon the fact page numbers are listed it was copy and pasted from another website. Excellent documentation. (Lol) I used to be a member of that forum under a different screen name and was amoung the first to post in the threads of this topic on that forum. Another fact, by you mentioning tydale has the word easter in it also you actualy proved my original point. Which is no translation is perfect and we need to study. And one last fact the word passover came way before english or german. You can read all about that in the book of exodus. Try starting in chapter 12. And since the book of exodus took place around 1400 B.C. the word passover came quite a while before tyndale.
I really do have better things to do with my time than debate with someone who wont even look into all the facts and wants to say that facts are opinions. I wont waste anymore of my time on this.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]It is a fact easter and passover are some years as much as 2 weeks apart. Thus, it is not the same day. Therefore it is a valid point.

[SIZE=medium]A valid point about what? It’s not the issue, according to your own words, which were:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: ...[/SIZE]my original point. Which is, there is no perfect translation and so we should study which obviously by your words you are unwilling to even look at a calander.[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I possess every reference work that I documented in my post. You, however, have posted no documentation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]That is very revealing on your disposition to study.

[SIZE=medium]Attempting to impugn my “disposition” won’t validate your opinions. Thus far, you haven't presented any “study” - just opinions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]Anyone who has studied the greek and hebrew will know…[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Please show us with scripture exactly where we are instructed to ‘study greek and hebrew’ to “know” about Passover and “perfect translations.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]Another fact thats revealing to your disposition to study is the documentation you provided.

[SIZE=medium]You wouldn’t know because you have not studied it, else we wouldn’t be having this conversation around the water cooler about your mere opinions.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]Its copy and pasted from another christian forum, and based upon the fact page numbers are listed it was copy and pasted from another website. Excellent documentation. (Lol) I used to be a member of that forum under a different screen name and was amoung the first to post in the threads of this topic on that forum.

[SIZE=medium]Who do you think researched and posted that original info? I've posted it in several places. BTW, there's no copyright; please pass it on.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]Another fact, by you mentioning tydale has the word easter in it also you actualy proved my original point. Which is no translation is perfect and we need to study.[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]You proved mine. That is, the issue has NEVER been about men and their translations. Rather, it’s always been about God preserving his pure inspired word for ever (Psalm 12:6, 7 ). You either believe God’s promise, or you pefer to chase after the coattails of other men and their inventions. You're right about one thing: someone "needs to study" something...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: And one last fact the word passover came way before english or german. You can read all about that in the book of exodus. Try starting in chapter 12. And since the book of exodus took place around 1400 B.C. the word passover came quite a while before tyndale.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Again, such is not the issue here.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941: [/SIZE]l really do have better things to do with my time than debate..[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]What “debate”? It hasn’t started yet.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]walls of jericho941[/SIZE]…than debate with someone who wont even look into all the facts and wants to say that facts are opinions.

[SIZE=medium]We’ve all heard your opinions. Now try rebutting the "excellent documentation" I posted, with documentation of your own -- and not merely your assertions..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Thanks for your reply.[/SIZE]

 

[Madad21]

They are part of a satanic agenda to undermine key Biblical teachings and prepare the population for an all-inclusive one world religion.

Well if this is true then God has been using my Satanic Bible to teach me. I have prayed and He has brought scriptures to my mind I have read in my modern version, scriptures I had forgotten. I have prayed and while reading my modern version I have had Scripture jump out at me I hadnt really noticed before or read in a certain way. I wonder if the Holy Spirit is using a Satanic Bible to teach?

I dont think we give the Holy Spirit enough credit when it comes to experiencing Gods word as a literal part of our being as opposed to something we simply read and learn from.
Each version is updated to apply in language only to another generation who no longer use the words that people did 50 30 or even 20 years ago.
When we compare old text with our new text the same context and message is received especially by those who have the Spirit to receive it.

I think we place to much importance in the ink and the paper to realize that its not the words on the paper that inform us, but the Spirit of knowledge and wisdom that gives understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:12
"Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God."

 

[sojourner4Christ]

This post is fair, and I will respond casually.

Well if this is true then God has been using my Satanic Bible to teach me.

If the Lord can use an ass (Baalim’s) to speak, then he can certainly use counterfeit bibles. But that’s not the point. Why eat junk food when you can feast on the pure word of God? The NIV and all modern version of the Holy Bible contain some of the word of God. The Holy Bible itself is the word of God. Satan knows those who have been fed a depleted diet are no threat to his kingdom. We’re even to the point now where many, who would say with their lips they are saved, are actually workers of iniquity. The Holy Bible describes this time in detail. These people are smug in their deception.

I have prayed and He has brought scriptures to my mind I have read in my modern version, scriptures I had forgotten. I have prayed and while reading my modern version I have had Scripture jump out at me I hadnt really noticed before or read in a certain way. I wonder if the Holy Spirit is using a Satanic Bible to teach?

You should discern the answer to that already, having been through some of the things in your life that you have described for us in these forums. And scripture tells us he would. The Lord never said witchcraft didn’t work; he said don’t use it! If you are convinced in your flesh (it’s never because of God telling you himself) that what the world’s marketers/merchants continue to shout at you from birth (i.e. hey, this “bible” is easier to read, let us be your authority, you don’t need the Holy Spirit because you have us; or, hey, this is too hard to read, don’t ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to all truth, we’ve already done that for you so buy this one; or, you are afraid of what your friends may think of you when you make the stand for what God has already said he has provided to his people via Psalm 12:6,7), then you should expect to receive a recompense equal to your failure to perform due diligence. Those who do not love the truth are sent strong delusion by God that they should believe a lie. To those, the Lord tells you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear. For those who fear man, the Lord brings a snare upon them. And it is the Lord who chooses their delusions. “Missionaries among primitive peoples” often complain and return, when they’re able, modern versions sent to them by well-meaning but ignorant people precisely because they cannot be effective for the kingdom when using junk so-called bibles.

The Lord wants to use you in a mighty and powerful way. But until you are willing to entertain the possibility that you may have been sold a bill of goods on the “versions” issue, your self-deception will continue and your walk (and the walk of other potential converts) will suffer for it.

A main problem here is people’s fear of man, rather than fear of God. How strong for Christ are you? In word only and not deed?

A born again friend had this to say:

“Jesus Christ is the target of hatred by this world. His living Spirit-inspired words, which give his express will on this earth, are the bull's eye. Christians who stand with Christ's word at the very bull's eye will not only suffer persecution, but they will also be subject to a constant barrage of attack. The word of God brings the same reproach he bore. His word is the only vestige on earth of Jesus Christ, other than the Holy Ghost and the testimony of born again Christians. Many move slightly off center to avoid the unremitting assault of questioning scribes and mocking bystanders. Those edging away from the bull's eye are still 'for Jesus,' but the desire not to appear "foolish" finds puffed egos seeking ways and means to avoid the "shame" that comes from saying that you have a book in which God actually talks to man (Acts 5:41, Heb 12:2).

The living "powerful" quality of the King James Bible incites sinful men to "mock" and "question" it, just as they did Jesus Christ, the living Word, when he was on earth (Mark 10:34, Matt 22:15, Mark 8:11, et al.). The thought seems to be -- 'Point a finger at it, before it points one back.' The apostles scurried away when Jesus was tried and crucified. When the KJB is likewise tried with accusing questions, even some of the best men scurry under the cover of a Greek text, some lexicon, or the elusive 'originals.'”

Another problem is that people do not understand what “inspiration” means. They’ve been taught by the world that it means God inspired men to write etc. But that’s not what the scripture says; there’s no mention of man anywhere in that verse. It says all scripture is given by inspiration of God. By his Spirit. It’s not about man in any manner. God did not inspire any men, although this is the diversionary worldly playground that the scholars are working so hard to convince you to visit. The scripture means what it says: The word of God is alive; it is spirit (a mere breath is neither). Yes, God has indeed kept his promise to preserve HIS pure word for ever (ala Psalm 12:6, 7). We do have it. The question today is, which “word” is it, i.e. which Bible is the real deal?

Did you not expect that these times would be as they are? The word has been under attack since Satan changed a single word back in the garden. Satan doesn’t change a game plan that works. Satan does not have to kill you outright to neuter your walk; he can simply flood the marketplace with 600+ modern counterfeit bibles and accomplish the same feat more easily.

With your moxy, you could be (and should be!) of use to the Lord in an amazing capacity. Yet, the field is littered with Satan’s stumbling blocks. Therefore we must walk wisely, redeeming the time in this evil day.

 

[Madad21]

Ok, well I was answering BM's OP but its up to you if you want to talk to me because as you should have learnt from our last run in, if you deal with me you deal with Gods word in me, solid and unwavering, I stand upon it firmly like the promises of God, I have no fear of man and no fear in using the word as the sword I wield.

Dont make the mistake of judging the quality of my faith by your own doubts, Judge all I have said by the word and tell me where I have made a mistake. If you can not then you judge your own faith.

You should discern the answer to that already, having been through some of the things in your life that you have described for us in these forums. day.

BTW this was a rhetorical question.


1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

The Lord hasn't given me over to a poor understanding or a bad bible because Im apparently to ignorant to study a "real one" or do real study, I know full well when I have been spoken to by God through scripture He makes it known in my spirit so I am not left in any doubt, Nor am I deluded by marketing like some brain dead dribbling moron (I have provided a picture of myself below as confirmation)
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:465]

Have you not heard "God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong." (1 Corinthians 1:27)
Even talking donkeys, addicts, convicts, the unschooled and the poor and the sick.
What Bibles do you think they have, some of em don't even own a bible, but I bet you they could teach you a thing or two about Gods forgiveness, His compassion, His grace and His love. God gives wisdom to those who love Him and those who love His Word and the Word became flesh.
John 14:19-20 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
Do you understand, this goes with "I am the way the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father but through me"

Gods true Word is not hidden in a real deal book somewhere for only the accomplished to seek out.
While your seeking out the real deal the rest of us will be reading the word of God.
Its no secret He has kept His Word in plain sight and so many are staring right at it but they refuse to see it, they want to see conspiracy's instead, because by them they think they have special knowledge and special insights, the chosen few.
Romans 1:19-21
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Heres a scripture to help you understand the character of my Father, its yours to keep.
Luke 11:9
“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

When we pray for wisdom and we seek God earnestly does he give us over to bad bibles and "moxy" instead of the Spirit that guides?

I dont call the Holy Spirit my "moxy" maybe you have moxy, but I have the Holy Spirit

The question today is, which “word” is it, i.e. which Bible is the real deal?

its not the words on the paper that inform us, but the Spirit of knowledge and wisdom that gives understanding.
Man does not live by bread alone, but every word from the mouth of the Lord (Matthew 4:4)

1 Corinthians 2:12
"Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God."


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[StanJ]

If the Lord can use an ass (Baalim’s) to speak, then he can certainly use counterfeit bibles. But that’s not the point. Why eat junk food when you can feast on the pure word of God? The NIV and all modern version of the Holy Bible contain some of the word of God.

IMO, Balaam's ass has not been the only ass to speak throughout history.

ALL Bibles today pretty much contain at least 66 books, so they contain the same as the Holy Bible of 1611. As far as accuracy is concerned, the Holy Bible, as you like to call it, is less accurate than most modern translations today, in ANY language.

The following article is 15 years old, which shows how long the false teaching of KJVO has been around.

http://www.dbts.edu/journals/1999/Combs.pdf

 

[sojourner4Christ]

IMO, Balaam's ass has not been the only ass to speak throughout history.

I'm sorry; I'm not intentionally ignoring you. Please, speak up.

And Madad21, thanks for getting back to me. Please allow me to respond to your comments.

Ok, well I was answering BM's OP but its up to you if you want to talk to me..

Yes, I do want to talk to you, because iron sharpeneth iron.

...because as you should have learnt from our last run in, if you deal with me you deal with Gods word in me, solid and unwavering and I can stand upon it firmly like the promises of God, I have no fear of man and no fear in using the word as the sword I wield.

Do not give place to pride; it is a blend of vanity and vexation of spirit. You know that one cannot maintain a “stand upon it firmly” if one “stands upon” anything other than what is “firm” i.e. the word of God.

Even talking donkeys, addicts, convicts, the unschooled and the poor and the sick.
What Bibles do you think they have, some of em don't even own a bible, but I bet you they could teach you a thing or two about Gods forgiveness, His compassion, His grace and His love. God gives wisdom to those who love Him and those who love His Word and the Word became flesh.

Amen. I’m still learning about ‘forgiveness, compassion, and grace’ -- how about you?

Gods true Word is not hidden in a real deal book somewhere for only the accomplished to seek out. While your seeking out the real deal the rest of us will be reading the word of God.

It is not hidden. But there are many counterfeits competing for your attention.

Its no secret He has kept His Word in plain sight and so many are staring right at it but they refuse to see it,

The question, as we will explore, is, why do so many "refuse to see it"?

they want to see conspiracy's instead, because by them they think they have special knowledge and special insights, the chosen few.

Yes, there are many of those antichrists, even in these forums. Even now, one has been attempting to dog me for some time. It's a direct confirmation that I'm on target with the truth - i. e. it's a good thing. If I don't get dogged regularly, it means I'm falling back into complacency and comfortability with the world.

Conspiracy is a biblical word, appearing over 30 times. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. - Eze. 22:25

When we pray for wisdom and we seek God earnestly does he give us over to bad bibles and "moxy" instead of the Spirit that guides?

[and]

I dont call the Holy Spirit my "moxy" maybe you have moxy, but I have the Holy Spirit

You’ve conflated two separate issues here, and the result will be double mindedness. “Moxy” has nothing to do with “the Spirit that guides,” so, please, do not twist my words to attempt such as deception; that is not Godly. BTW, I misspelled the word “moxy;” that is why you could not find it in the dictionary. The correct spelling is moxie, and I used it to describe one of your apparent character traits. Relax, it’s a good thing.

So let’s talk more about this question:

When we pray for wisdom and we seek God earnestly does he give us over to bad bibles and "moxy" instead of the Spirit that guides?

Of course I understand you are being rhetorical, even sarcastic (pehaps just hyperbole?). But that question hs merit on its own.

First, we establish the baseline. Did God tell you to use modern copyrighted versions of the Holy Bible? It’s a simple yes or no answer.

Second, I know that God did not tell you that. Now, you may have presumed that it was ok to do so, because when you chose to began using those inventions, you heard nothing from God telling you anything to the contrary. I also know that God wishes for his people to move from the milk to the meat (and I’m not implying that modern versions of the Holy Bible qualify as meat -- or even milk!).

Judge all I have said by the word and tell me where I have made a mistake.

Back to your question:

When we pray for wisdom and we seek God earnestly does he give us over to bad bibles and "moxy" instead of the Spirit that guides?

A brother with whom I correspond, has the following to say about your question.

In the book of Ezekiel, we see that the LORD says to the prophet: "Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face. Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet, I, the Lord, will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols." - Ezekiel 14:3,4

When God says this applies to "every man of the house of Israel," he is speaking of his people. Ironically, the prophetic perception as to the identity of the party to whom the prophecy is addressed is itself part of the "stumbling block" that is referred to in the passage!

The New Testament tells us that the "chosen" of the LORD are the Christians - as opposed to, for exazmple, the pre-trib rapture cult position that tells us the Jews are God's people, and the Church is a separate entity. Thus, cult teachers immediately dismiss this prophecy as not being applicable to them because they do not believe they are "of the house of Israel." This tradition of men is a Stumblingblock to their ability to hear and learn what God is telling them in this very passage. The truth is, Jesus Christ plainly taught against the concept of two groups of believers.

So while the cult teaches that Israel is one group and the Church is another group, the Gospels say otherwise. Before the Gentiles were called into the salvation offered by JESUS CHRIST, he said "And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." (John 10:16)

Back to Ezekiel. When Ezekiel says that when the people "cometh to the prophet" to seek the will of the Lord," they are inquiring of God through the authority of "the prophet" - who the New Testament tells us is JESUS CHRIST. For example, in the book of John we learn that when Jesus preached, the people said "Of a truth, this is the prophet." (John 7:40) Peter also said that Jesus fulfilled the prediction of a great prophet that would arise in Israel when he stated "A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you...." (Acts 7:37) There are many Scriptural texts proving that Jesus is "the prophet."

Ezekiel is told by the Lord that when "every man" comes to him to seek his will and they "setteth up idols" in their hearts, God will answer them "according to the multitude of his idols" (Ezekiel 14:3, 4). First we need to see that an "idol" that is in the heart can be anything that comes between the believer and God. Because idolatry is a concept (as opposed to a statue that one worships), we must realize that an idol can be any thought, belief, bible version, or even doctrine that we want to believe.

When God says he will answer the inquirer "according to" the idol, He is saying he will not tear down the false beliefs that exist in the hearts of the believers. Remember, the text says the believers are the ones that have "set up their idols in their heart" (Ezekiel 14:3) Thus, the Lord plainly states that he will give you the answer you've already decided you want!

This is a gigantic truth, and it is another area concerning God's attributes that is commonly distorted by the false teachers. Pastors and Christian writers commonly tell us that God never deceives people - yet the Scriptures tell us that God allows us to continue in the deceptions that we've ensnared ourselves in. The Bible says "the Lord knoweth how to...reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (II Peter 2:9).

In fact, the Apostle Paul plainly says that God will actually initiate deception when He writes that "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (II Thessalonians 2:11,10).

And it is also God who chooses their delusions! I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not (Isaiah 66:4).

What we're seeing here should be frightening, because it is a scriptural proof text that indicates if we are not completely sold out to hearing the truth - regardless of how unsavory the truth may be - we are subject to be deceived. Furthermore, the very fact that this principle exists is tantamount to a prediction that there will be believers that think they are truly seeking the truth, but in actuality they have placed their idolatrous doctrines in their hearts, and are going before the LORD to ask him to validate the "idol" that is their false interpretation.

In the passage in Ezekiel, the Lord also refers to "the stumblingblock of their iniquity" as another obstacle to receiving the truth when seeking God. The text indicates that when the believer "putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face" when he seeks the Lord on a matter, this too will cause the Lord to "set my face against that man...." (Ezekiel 14:8).

This aspect of the prophecy informs us that our iniquity produces a "stumblingblock." Although we see variations on the term with the Scriptures sometimes calling it a "stumblingstone," the idiom is not used much in the modern English vernacular. It might be useful to state that if we think of walking forward and tripping over a large stone that we did not see, we have a valid picture of what is being said. For example, I live out in the country where it is completely pitch black at night. If I am walking around in total darkness and can't see a significant stone in my path, I'm likely to fall over it and be injured.

A stumblingblock is not intrinsically evil as the Scriptures state that Christ was to "the Jews a stumblingblock, and a rock of offense...." (I Corinthians 1:23) What we see in this amazing prophecy from Ezekiel is that it is our sin that keeps us from seeing things that we need to see. To put it another way, our iniquity is directly proportional to our spiritual blindness, and God will not just override that sin and force us to hear his truth. In order to get past this vulnerable condition, we must consistently demonstrate our willingness to receive the truth - in short, we must LOVE the TRUTH.

JESUS CHRIST told us that HE is the truth - "I am the way, the truth, and the life." (John 14:6) If we genuinely love the truth, then we will find it. Indeed, the very fact that there exists a multiplicity of "Christian traditions" is an indicator that something is dreadfully wrong. Thus, the idea that 'we can agree to disagree' is completely unscriptural on any matter concerning the faith. There is only one truth, and everything else is a lie.

This is an extraordinary perspective and it cuts like the proverbial two-edged sword. The idea of stumblingblocks is essentially synonymous with the New Testament concept of Strongholds. This is another way of describing a stumblingblock. A "Stronghold" is a place where someone or something may be defended. This term is commonly used as a military concept in the context of warfare - and the Bible frequently speaks of the war that is continuously occurring in the realm of the Spirit. In I Corinthians, we see,

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing [read idol] that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ...." (II Corinthians 10:3-5)

What this verse is so eloquently teaching us is that we are the ones that pull down the "Strongholds." We are the ones that seek out the "Stumblingblocks" in order achieve the victory in Christ. And we do these things, not in our power, but "through God" as we become "sanctified through the truth" (John 17:19). To be sanctified means to be set apart for glory, but for those that are not sanctified of God, "...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...." (Romans 1:18)

To put this into perspective, whenever we fail to fully embrace the truth, we allow the Devil to establish a Spiritual Stronghold that enters into our lives - and this is something that can eventually destroy us. When we refuse to see the truth that God wants us to see, that Stronghold becomes a Stumblingblock that causes us to stumble and fall further and further away from the will of the LORD. As this process continues, we are not abiding in the truth, and we then become subject to the wrath of God which is directed to all that "hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Romans 1:18). Essentially, when we say that we love him, and do not love the truth, we have become liars because he IS the truth.

Through Ezekiel, God says that he has allowed this situation to progress because "they are all estranged from me through their idols" (Ezekiel 14:5). God desires our fellowship - a fellowship that is true and unfeigned - not simply words, but deeds. God will hold all accountable, and the only way to ensure that we know him is to be found in Him - in righteousness and in truth. "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? For the time is come that the judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God?" (I Peter 4:18,17)

I pray that this has answered your question. Thanks for your reply.

-- Brother James

 

[StanJ]

so I wonder how this HB/KJVO stronghold can be pulled down if those that have built it up are so deceived they cannot see it?

Here is one verse I like in the HB/KJV;

But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

 

[Madad21]

Yes, there are many of those antichrists, even in these forums. Even now, one has been attempting to dog me for some time. It's a direct confirmation that I'm on target with the truth - i. e. it's a good thing. If I don't get dogged regularly, it means I'm falling back into complacency and comfortability with the world.

Tell me, why is it every time one of you guys run up against reason, you all say the same thing. It never fails "Im being persecuted, I must be on the right track."
"Everyone who disagrees with me is an antiChrist!!"
It will never matter what anybody says nothing gets through and now you call my brother a dog and an anti-Christ?

In the other forum you went after my name going to another thread to gather evidence against me of which you had none, a truly despicable non christian act of cowardliness only a desperate person would preform and you have the gal to call my brother an antiChrist and a dog for confronting you like a man, for challenging your thinking?

You have the cheek to try and convict me of pride because I said I stand on the word and speak from the word that is in me. while you so flagrantly pass judgement on everyone else. Dont you know that by the same measure you will be judged?(Matt 7:2)

This whole time you have done nothing but twist my words and quote me out of context to suit your arguments. side stepping where you can and just ignoring me when you have no answer. "Did God really say you must not eat from any tree of the garden?" Genesis 3:1
truly a detestable and low dealing cowardly way of dealing with others.

please do me the pleasure of ignoring me too.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

Tell me, why is it every time one of you guys run up against reason, you all say the same thing. It never fails "Im being persecuted, I must be on the right track."
"Everyone who disagrees with me is an antiChrist!!"
It will never matter what anybody says nothing gets through and now you call my brother a dog and an anti-Christ?

In the other forum you went after my name going to another thread to gather evidence against me of which you had none, a truly despicable non christian act of cowardliness only a desperate person would preform and you have the gal to call my brother an antiChrist and a dog for confronting you like a man, for challenging your thinking?

You have the cheek to try and convict me of pride because I said I stand on the word and speak from the word that is in me. while you so flagrantly pass judgement on everyone else. Dont you know that by the same measure you will be judged?(Matt 7:2)

This whole time you have done nothing but twist my words and quote me out of context to suit your arguments. side stepping where you can and just ignoring me when you have no answer. "Did God really say you must not eat from any tree of the garden?" Genesis 3:1
truly a detestable and low dealing cowardly way of dealing with others.

please do me the pleasure of ignoring me too.

Have you gone off the rails again?

because I said I stand on the word and speak from the word

But you don't.

Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face. Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet, I, the Lord, will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.

so I wonder how this HB/KJVO stronghold can be pulled down if those that have built it up are so deceived they cannot see it?

Ask Baalim.

 

[lforrest]

Proverbs 9:7-8 7"Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. 8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

.
Thanks, lforrest, I needed that. It's also good to see that you are indeed aware.

 

[StanJ]

Proverbs 9:7-8 7"Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. 8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Well maybe not at first, but sooner or later he will, or he proves he is one of the former.

There is also Prov 12:23;
A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness.

 

[Madad21]

on of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face. Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet, I, the Lord, will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.

Finally, Im glad you found a scripture that is actually in context with you. good job!!

Heres another one you can use to build on to that.
Romans 1:19-21
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Good on ya man.


As for me Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Psalms 1–41
Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers,
but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
and who meditates on his law day and night.
That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

Amen

Proverbs 9:7-8 7"Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. 8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

This is true. thanks man

Long night shifts and little sleep makes me an emotional easy target for the enemy to get a foot hold and claim a petty victory.

The Bible has only changed in the way that as language changes so does or vocabulary, what once grammatically applicable in the 50's and 60's is no longer applicable in the now.

It is true however that there is a lot of grammatical clues lost from Aramaic to Greek to Latin and then to English and then again in to modern use of the language. which is why it is well worth studying Greek and Hebrew, there is so much more we can pick up on like accents on certain words etc.
However the message is not lost. The Gospels are the most important part of the Bible and this happened at a time when Aramaic was the most common language of the Jews. from this language the Greek is no too far of the mark so learning Greek is great idea if deeper understand of themes and ideas with in the text is what we look for. Other than this the englishs translation all give a very clear message of the gospel account.
And we should never discount the fact the Holy Spirit works through Gods Word and speaks directly to us by it, so in all the translation is of no regard.

.

.

 

[sojourner4Christ]

The Bible has only changed in the way that as language changes so does or vocabulary, what once grammatically applicable in the 50's and 60's is no longer applicable in the now.

For I am the LORD, I change not... Malachi 3:6

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:7

...thy word is truth. John 17:17

...it is well worth studying Greek and Hebrew, there is so much more we can pick up on...

...learning Greek is great idea...

...in all the translation is of no regard....

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. Hebrews 13:8-9

 

[Madad21]

For I am the LORD, I change not... Malachi 3:6

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:7

...thy word is truth. John 17:17

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. Hebrews 13:8-9

Yup,..I can see how you got that from what I said,..good job