Nicodemus.....a master of Israel

[tabletalk]

Christians in their inflated egos think Nicodemus got it wrong when in fact it is they who have it wrong - the requirement for salvation is not only water and spirit but that one must be born again as little Christian children who do simply simply believe[Jn 20:31] for as Jesus said they may loudly say so and madly imagine so but it is very difficult bordering on impossibl;e for adults to simply simply believe as little children imho - twinc

No. It takes no effort at all to "simply believe as little children".

 

[twinc]

No. It takes no effort at all to "simply believe as little children".

again that is according to you and not according to Jesus -twinc

 

[FHII]

guess what else He said = no comment - twinc

I am not even going to pretend to know what you mean by that. Perhaps you can explain it to me.

But by the way, I am sorry I derailed your thread. I look to getting back to it.

On the subject, I agree with amadeus. Children know nothing but what is taught to them. The ones that came to Jesus were seeking him. I cannot speak for all, but when I came I had a mind full of mush when it came to Christian doctrine. I had to unlearn it all (become as a little child.... Knowing nothing but eager to learn).

 

[amadeus]

Jesus said do unto others as you would have them do unto you. ... Not as they have done unto you.

Commonly known as the Golden Rule!

 

[amadeus]

Naturally - birds of a feather flock together understandably - twinc

Twinc, if you would not make it so complicated, we could both walk down the highway of holiness. We both do want to approach God more closely, do we not?

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm, my experience with little children is more like they simply simply keep questioning lol, wadr

alas and sadly this is the big problem - some think they know more and better than God/Jesus - twinc

i only meant to make a valid observation here, not a joke. Can you tell me how your comment is relevant?

No. It takes no effort at all to "simply believe as little children".

hmm, that is another point i hadn't considered, even though when is the last time you saw a kid "simply believe" anything? Can anyone name a single instance in which a kid accepted the first explanation they had been given, and stopped questioning?

with all due respect twinc, i would be examining this for veracity, ok, i mean, look at your reply to me. Somewhere between my observation and your reply, we got disconnected. Is it bc you do not observe little kids questioning after they have gotten their first answer? I mean if so then lemme know, i guess that is possible...in a repressed enough household.

But fwiw that would be like even scarier than...um, what you are displaying up there right now, no offense.

 

[tabletalk]

i only meant to make a valid observation here, not a joke. Can you tell me how your comment is relevant?
hmm, that is another point i hadn't considered, even though when is the last time you saw a kid "simply believe" anything? Can anyone name a single instance in which a kid accepted the first explanation they had been given, and stopped questioning?

with all due respect twinc, i would be examining this for veracity, ok, i mean, look at your reply to me. Somewhere between my observation and your reply, we got disconnected. Is it bc you do not observe little kids questioning after they have gotten their first answer? I mean if so then lemme know, i guess that is possible...in a repressed enough household.

But fwiw that would be like even scarier than...um, what you are displaying up there right now, no offense.

"Can anyone name a single instance in which a kid accepted the first explanation they had been given, and stopped questioning?"
Santa Claus.

 

[bbyrd009]

....sigh... I get so tired of Christians insulting other Christians. Why?

a word here, imo speaking generally as he has done about a subject that is certainly timely enough does not strike me as insulting anyone per se; Christians can have inflated egos, just like anyone else, right. So i dunno if it is right to condemn speaking generally there, is my point; specifically might be a diff subject.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Can anyone name a single instance in which a kid accepted the first explanation they had been given, and stopped questioning?"
Santa Claus.

ha well on the surface this might appear true, but isn't that just bc the little kid opened their eyes wide and nodded in wonder at the bringer of the satan claws news, but then unbeknownst to the bringer there, went and immediately started repeating the news to their friends et al, specifically to observe their reactions? Of course it usually comes out as a statement, right, because we are training up little logical fascists, but in fact aren't these questions?

Where the attention of the child is after they make a statement of that nature will make it apparent, imo.
If you make a statement of fact to inform someone, you will not keep your attention focussed on them for their reaction, iow, dunno if this is making any sense or not. Little kids make "statements" and then laser-beam in on you for a reaction; iow a question is really being asked. Or an affirmation is being sought

 

[twinc]

ha well on the surface this might appear true, but isn't that just bc the little kid opened their eyes wide and nodded in wonder at the bringer of the satan claws news, but then unbeknownst to the bringer there, went and immediately started repeating the news to their friends et al, specifically to observe their reactions? Of course it usually comes out as a statement, right, because we are training up little logical fascists, but in fact aren't these questions?

Where the attention of the child is after they make a statement of that nature will make it apparent, imo.
If you make a statement of fact to inform someone, you will not keep your attention focussed on them for their reaction, iow, dunno if this is making any sense or not. Little kids make "statements" and then laser-beam in on you for a reaction; iow a question is really being asked. Or an affirmation is being sought

still trying to get through but not succeeding because of adult know alls and know better than even God/Jesus - especially those who know nothing about the subconscious mind or rationalisation or brain washing or hypnotism or mesmerism etc - listen and be told will ya - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

still trying to get through but not succeeding

sorry? the kid is still trying to get through, but not succeeding? Not sure i quite get it, but imo the kid will succeed, despite the egos/answers they might get from one person, simply because they have no problems just going and either asking or stating their pov to someone else, to get a different/better/more complete understanding from a separate witness. Iow logic does not defeat little kids; it only hampers or defeats adults, who accept yes or no answers at face value.

"Ask, seek, knock."

 

[bbyrd009]

No. It takes no effort at all to "simply believe as little children".

again that is according to you and not according to Jesus -twinc

i suggest that maybe this "simply believe, like little children" is really not true--it is more like the perception an adult gets after they tell a little kid there is a santa claus--and not what Christ meant to point to.

That there are cases in which the little kid simply believes--simply because the reply is immediately matched by empirical evidence--really only serve to cloud the issue. iow if you tell a kid "this will do that," and then you demonstrate that this will in fact do that, obv the kid will not ask further (which also becomes a way to deceive little kids, right)(ps, adult logical thinkers are total suckers for this as well).

 

[bbyrd009]

ha well on the surface this might appear true, but isn't that just bc the little kid opened their eyes wide and nodded in wonder at the bringer of the satan claws news, but then unbeknownst to the bringer there, went and immediately started repeating the news to their friends et al, specifically to observe their reactions? Of course it usually comes out as a statement, right, because we are training up little logical fascists, but in fact aren't these questions?

Where the attention of the child is after they make a statement of that nature will make it apparent, imo.
If you make a statement of fact to inform someone, you will not keep your attention focussed on them for their reaction, iow, dunno if this is making any sense or not. Little kids make "statements" and then laser-beam in on you for a reaction; iow a question is really being asked. Or an affirmation is being sought

still trying to get through but not succeeding because of adult know alls and know better than even God/Jesus - especially those who know nothing about the subconscious mind or rationalisation or brain washing or hypnotism or mesmerism etc -

sorry, i must be having a brain fart or something, i just cannot connect your reply to my post

listen and be told will ya - twinc

um, that santa claus is real? (an analogy) are you sure that is the best idea?
regardless of the reply there, do you actually observe any little kids just accepting in this manner, other than when there is obvious empirical evidence to back it up? Even then, can they not be often detected rehashing the experience with others, in a probing manner?

imo this "simply believe" thing is not really accurate, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

listen and be told will ya - twinc

this is always a one-way street, huh

 

[twinc]

this is always a one-way street, huh

there is no compulsion or suppression - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

listen and be told will ya

there is no compulsion or suppression

um, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

i post the above on the fly, not meaning for it to be taken as an attack, ok, but so that you have an opp to resolve the apparent dichotomy

 

[twinc]

i post the above on the fly, not meaning for it to be taken as an attack, ok, but so that you have an opp to resolve the apparent dichotomy

apparent is not real imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

apparent is not real imho - twinc

yes, hence why i bothered to type the rather laborious "apparent."

please continue, then

 

[bbyrd009]

apparent is not real imho - twinc

ok, i can proceed w/o you here, but your silence is rather deafening? apparent is becoming more real iow, the longer...ya. Guess that tag will come in handy after all lol