No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming
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I See someone who is ever learning but never able to arrive at the Truth. An Unteachable spirit...
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:13-16)
Your avatar helps! I've always like it!It certainly can get mucky.
Glad it doesn't steal your joy!
God Bless,
Taken
I know. This is what you present to the world. At best your negative opinion of me which you freely share with the internet. Hardly a Christian thing to do.
I don't know about that, though. I don't know that this is actually your opinion or not. Because it could equally be malicious. That's how it comes across. I like to give the benefit of the doubt.
I have no reason to convince that this ISN'T you being malicious, because you just can't stand someone disagreeing. Some people are like that. I'm not saying you are. But it sure seems that way.
This is the mind of Christ? It is not.
David H. said: ↑
from scripture and construed them to fit your theology of complacency and comfort
David H. said: ↑
your denial of any moves of the Holy Ghost
David H. said: ↑
denying that we will do greater works than the Son of Man did in His ministry
David H. said: ↑
you preach a watered down powerless Gospel devoid of the Spirit and all mental and textual.
David H. said: ↑
Cause you are now making a fool of yourself.
David H. said: ↑
There is SOOO much you are missing out on
David H. said: ↑
There you go again getting all offended
David H. said: ↑
you failed to stand corrected.
David H. said: ↑
Anything but say "I am wrong" The hardest three words for you to say.
David H. said: ↑
your missing out by not Hungering and thirsting for more of Jesus
David H. said: ↑
Willful blindness?
David H. said: ↑
then you just plain ignorant
David H. said: ↑
you choose to mock and get defensive
David H. said: ↑
You do not want to see,
David H. said: ↑
That is how much you hate me.
David H. said: ↑
This inability on your part to stand corrected
David H. said: ↑
a total lack of character
David H. said: ↑
a Narcissistic heart that is never in error and always right.
David H. said: ↑
You are hopelessly blind to it.
David H. said: ↑
You are mocking God.
David H. said: ↑
degraded their conception of God
Do you see this yet?
Much love!
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Your avatar helps! I've always like it!
Thanks. (I've been criticized for it...lol)
James the Rabbit
Member
No offense, but isn't this all a bit depressing? It feels like a SimCity game, when the builder gets bored he starts destroying the city. Why would a loving God do this to his people? Or to His creation, for that matter.
And we are supposed to be excited about this idea, like Turkeys in November?
And we are supposed to be excited about this idea, like Turkeys in November?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Already answered somewhere. You use kingdom verses, then declare no kingdom. The new reality is not a kingdom. It is a total different reality. All this government types of this world will be remembered no more. Do you read the verses you post?
Find verses that do not deal with current reality. Then you can declare them "after the former things have passed away".
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There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation?
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ?
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
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When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth
As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)
Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim
(Then Cometh The End)
(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)
1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Once again, you ignore the scripture. Go on a tirade.... It is called diversion and distraction.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians 2:13-16)
What is the point of the Holy Spirit teaching us Spiritual Things if we have all we need in scripture?
How do we Express Logically what can only be understood Spiritually?
If the Holy Ghost reveals something to you, How are you supposed to share it with others if there is no allowance for the Mysteries of the faith to be revealed?
There are parts of Scripture that are sealed up until the time of the end, How is it that they are to be unsealed and revealed? With an attitude like yours, they will never be revealed to you. This is what I am trying to reach you on. This is what you need to make room for. Textualism closes the mind to Spiritual revelation. But alas you've built a wall between the natural and the Spiritual one which can not be penetrated.
You think I am being "Malicious" Towards you, when In my Heart I am saying these things in Hopes of encouraging you and edifying you. Hoping and praying that your faith will blossom Spiritually and you will behold the unimaginable wonders he has to offer us. Wanting you to experience more of Christ is not malicious or nonsense It is brotherly love. Was Jesus always Polite to those he Spoke to? No He told it like it is was brutally honest at times and Got to the heart of the matter. Did the apostle always get along? No They had falling outs with one another, strong disagreements, Even going their separate ways. Paul rebuked Peter, James encouraged Paul to take the Nazerite vow, John Mark and Paul had their falling out, Paul and Barnabas went in opposite directions after disagreeing with each other..... This is church History, I do not expect you to agree with me. What does concern me is your attitude one which is closed minded to divine revelation of any kind. Look back at my interactions with Michael here. He disagreed with me on things yet he did not berate me for them But interacted and asked why I believe what I believe. Sure I gave The author of this OP a "triple face palm" But he is allowed to His view, I do not agree with it for obvious reasons But he has a valid reason for believing it and if you ever get a chance there are some very valid things for you to learn from a partial preterist and their line of thinking. None of us has it all figured out, and that is the point of fellowship.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Not taking sides, but what you said there can be misleading.
Trusting God's Holy Writ as the Measure of all things or not is one of the old arguments between Protestants and Catholics. The Catholics don't believe written Scripture is the sole measure. Kind of easy to see too, with all their superstitious practices and traditions not commanded in God's Word.
So you cannot go claiming you are speaking by The Spirit if it does not align with God's Holy Writ. His Word will NEVER go against The Holy Spirit unction.
And since God's written Word was given by... The Holy Spirit to holy men, it is also required in order to understand God's written Word. This is why the unbelieving have a veil over their mind when reading God's Word, like Apostle Paul said. It is only lifted when they come to Jesus Christ and believe.
One of the problems for the last days, and we were warned by Christ's Apostles about it, is the problem of many believers not listening to 'sound doctrine', but heeding false prophets and such. Even in John 10 Jesus warned about the 'hireling' that preaches for money, and will run when the wolves creep into the congregation. Those aren't given to understand God's Word, they're in it for the money. That's why anyone with Bible discipline checking them out easily realize those hirelings don't really know what God's Word actually says.
You really DON'T read my posts. This is very clear to me. You misread something, and run with it.
I didn't say that. I raised the possibility that you might be. You see, I don't know you. Just like you don't know me. And while you feel free to think whatever nasty thing about me that you feel like, and you feel free to repeat those evil thoughts to others, I'm not that way.
I don't make assumpions about you, coming up with these vile things, and I don't go around trumpeting to others about you being some terrible person, as you do with me.
You are living in this fantasy, but I am not bound by it. You cannot stop yourself from trashing me, but that fact means nothing to you. Still, you cannot stop yourself.
That really should mean something.
Much love!
I challenge you, if this is true of you, show that to me. I'll know the difference as soon as I see it.
Much love!
Is that really so?
This to you is encouraging and edifying?
I post this again because you have ignored it.
David H. said: ↑
from scripture and construed them to fit your theology of complacency and comfort
David H. said: ↑
your denial of any moves of the Holy Ghost
David H. said: ↑
denying that we will do greater works than the Son of Man did in His ministry
David H. said: ↑
you preach a watered down powerless Gospel devoid of the Spirit and all mental and textual.
David H. said: ↑
Cause you are now making a fool of yourself.
David H. said: ↑
There is SOOO much you are missing out on
David H. said: ↑
There you go again getting all offended
David H. said: ↑
you failed to stand corrected.
David H. said: ↑
Anything but say "I am wrong" The hardest three words for you to say.
David H. said: ↑
your missing out by not Hungering and thirsting for more of Jesus
David H. said: ↑
Willful blindness?
David H. said: ↑
then you just plain ignorant
David H. said: ↑
you choose to mock and get defensive
David H. said: ↑
You do not want to see,
David H. said: ↑
That is how much you hate me.
David H. said: ↑
This inability on your part to stand corrected
David H. said: ↑
a total lack of character
David H. said: ↑
a Narcissistic heart that is never in error and always right.
David H. said: ↑
You are hopelessly blind to it.
David H. said: ↑
You are mocking God.
David H. said: ↑
degraded their conception of God
Edifying? Really?
Much love?
I Understand Your concern, One cannot truly understand scripture without the Spirit that inspired the Authors of it, which is my Point. The text by itself is just words in a book, the letter, and the human mind can only grasp it on a carnal mind way, the Spirit adds depth and intent and Spirit to the words.
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (2 Corinthians 3:6)
I Am not berating fundamentalism in that it is an essential component of sound doctrine But when it becomes problematic is when it is devoid of the Spirit and the scribe decides what it means and all the rest must accept the scribes teaching. This is when fundamentalism crosses the line and becomes Nicolaitan No different than the Catholic claims of hierarchy. Those Hireling preachers come in all denominations and the one way to avoid them is to be taught by the Spirit.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I agree, pretty much, as long you are including literal Bible study with that, which even with The Holy Spirit, is a requirement.
2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV
So literal Bible study with discipline is not the idea of 'letter killeth', and should not be compared as such.
One has to understand when Apostle Paul used expressions too. And God's Word uses a whole lot... of allegories, expressions, idioms, analogies, etc., just like all languages do. God did this to make understanding His Word easier, not more difficult. So there is a certain amount of education that is necessary too in order for The Holy Spirit to guide us in it. And I have to laugh at those who misinterpret Isaiah 28 where God showed study of His Word is line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. They often say it's just the opposite, which is how many preach their own word, instead of sticking to His by The Holy Spirit.
If You are about to walk off a cliff should i politely say "excuse me there is a cliff...." as you fall off, Or should I get your attention and yell "stop" first, and then explain why?
If You actually read my comments all over again you will see that these words which you are dwelling on of mine are there to get your attention and To warn you That you are heading off a cliff.
What I want for you is more of Christ, More of the riches of his grace for you, More awe for His holiness and majesty and wisdom, to the point where you are able to be taught by the Holy Ghost. That is what my calling is all about, and a lot has to do with awakening the need in you for this.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Does that mean you really don't know what this present world is about concerning God's Plan of Salvation?
In Luke 4, why do you think Satan would take Jesus upon a high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of this world, and then offered them to Jesus only if Jesus would follow him? How could Satan offer that if they weren't given to him in this world?
And in John 18:36, Lord Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, otherwise His servants would fight to prevent Him from being delivered up.
So you are in a BATTLEZONE for this present world if you belong to Jesus Christ. And we are His SOLDIERS in this present world, here to serve our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ. In the world to come, when Lord Jesus returns, that... is when we will truly rejoice in Him and have real peace.
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