That does not give you license to just make up your own interpretations, as if every time it rains, that's Pentacost. Rain is rain, and Pentacost is Pentacost, and best to not confuse the two.
Muc love!
No Pre-Trib Rapture, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To See The Tribulation And Second Coming
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Muc love!
The Apostles said absolutely NOTHING about some "second Pentacost". Nor did they say that Peter got it wrong:
2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
We wait with patience just like the farmer. Not that we ARE the farmer.
Much love!
And none of these - not one - support your assertion that we are incomplete spiritually, that we are waiting for the rest of the Holy Spirit so we can become complete.
As if Jesus would contradict Himself!
Colossians 2:9-10 KJV
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
True? Or not true? Hint: It's true.
Much love!
It's a simile.
I hope not too many people believe you when you tell them they lack the power to live godly lives.
Much love!
You've built this into a real mountain!
I hate you? I've never even MET you! And if fact, I keep hoping good for you. But I expect you will say this too is a lie!
Is it Cognitive Bias, is that what they call it? When you reject one thing about something, that you feel you must then go on to reject everything so you can feel internally consistent?
Much love!
The words are used, but the doctrine is not taught.
Why not spend your energy showing from the Bible your view? Instead of post after post after post vilifying me? Man, I must have really struck a nerve! You are digging deeper and deeper.
Much love!
A delusion is a fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence.[1] As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or some other misleading effects of perception as individuals with these beliefs are able to change or readjust their beliefs upon viewing the evidence for these beliefs.
Delusion - Wikipedia
Delusion - Wikipedia
By your assertion that because James compares our patience to the farmer who waits for rain?
And how these few simple words are supposed to mean that Pentacost was incomplete, and all the saints who have lived and died since then have done so with only a portion of the Holy Spirit, and while they were admonished in their lifetimes to be holy, as God is holy, and to love one another, and to have koinonia with one another, and to walk in the Spirit, and to overcome sin,
That even though they, like us, were told these things, they, like us, lack the power to do so, having only received the "former rain".
No. James was making a comparison. Not undercutting every Christian from the beginning til now.
You promote that we lack spiritual power to live the way we should. No, I don't find this to be a correction.
2 Timothy 3:5 KJV
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Don't deny God's power. Walk in it.
2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
But you would rather keep calling me fool, and a scorner, and all that other junk,
All because I tell you, we have the Holy Spirit now.
Do you see this yet?
Much love!
From My perspective, it is you who are denying the Power thereof. Until you can see this You are hopelessly blind to it. You are limiting an eternal immortal God By confining him and all he has to offer us to Box of your own mental comprehension and Ability. You are mocking God.
It reminds me of an article i think I posted here before by Tozer You really should read it:
Make room for Mystery: A. W. Tozer | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board
Here is a quote:
"They belong to that class of persons mentioned by Cicero, who "fear nothing so much as to appear to be in doubt about anything." They proceed on the false assumption that everything in heaven and earth can be explained. And than this nothing could be more glaringly false.
Far better than the attempt to understand is the humility that admits its ignorance and waits quietly on God for His own light to appear in His own time. We will be better able to understand when we have accepted the humbling truth that there are many things in heaven and earth that we shall never be able to understand. It will be good for us to accept the universe and take our place in the mighty web of God's creation, so perfectly known to Him and so slightly known to even the wisest of men. The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way."
To those who have (unintentionally) degraded their conception of God to the level of their human understanding it may appear frightening to admit that there are many things in the Scriptures and more things about the Godhead that transcend the human intellect. But a few minutes on our knees looking into the face of Christ will teach us humility, a virtue whose healing qualities have been known by God's elect from time out of mind. "
I get that, yes I do!
Just the same, I'm the one who is saying that we've received the Holy Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ in us, Who FULLY empowers us to fulfill ALL of His will for us.
You somehow twist this into denying His power? I'm the one proclaiming His power!
Mocking God? Once again, you clearly have no sense about who I am, the sort of person I am, or my relationship with God. If you you did, you would not say such things.
And once again, another post all about what a bad bad man I am.
You are limiting an eternal immortal God By confining him and all he has to offer us to Box of your own mental comprehension and Ability.
I'm just astounded that you would say such a thing as if this were a serious statement. It's like, as long as I keep repeating God's word,
His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,
exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature
And ye are complete in him,
as long as I keep repeating these, and affirm that I believe them, that we are in fact already made complete in Christ, and that by His great power has already given us everything we need for life and godliness, as long as I affirm these are true,
So long as I continue this assertion, you continue with your malignments. And make no mistake. That's what you do. I disagree on a particular point of doctrine concerning the Latter Rain teaching as relates to a sort of Second Pentacost, and in response, you,
And the really sad thing? This is only a small sampling. That's sad!
Now, you can do what you've done, ignore what I've just said, and go on about how I'm all so "offended", and I shouldn't be so offended. There's a reason I take the time to make this list of quotes, and that's for the shock value. I hope you will see this. If this can be put behind us, that will be a good thing!
Much love!
No, but someone implied that God is not One and that we have at least 2 Gods. That's pagan doctrine, not monotheism, but common in the world..
Irrelevant.
No one said God is "defined" by His wrath.
I Have never said those words are not true, and I have agreed with them with you. I Am saying there is more to what Christ has to offer us, the riches of His Grace... All PLUS, He is not just our all, But our All IN ALL. It is known as progressive revelation, And it is scriptural, He gives us gifts when we can handle those gifts, (1 Corinthians 12:11) He reveals future events when we are ready to receive that word of Knowledge (John 16:13), He Gives us a higher calling when we are ready to receive that Which is the way Paul the Apostle approached His life... Listen to His words here:
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians 3:13-15)
In Fact the whole point of Prophets is to reveal things to the church they did not know nor have before, and this is supposed to be a part of orderly worship. (1 Corinthians 14:29-33) This is something the modern church is sorely missing.
What You cannot seem to wrap your head around is He has given us all we need But he also has more to give us Not just life, But abundant life and I am not talking material prosperity like the word faith preachers preach, I am speaking of unsearchable riches, Peace beyond understanding, Joy abounding, I want nothing more than for you to have a Moment of epiphany like Paul had in Romans 11:33, when he first realized what God's plan for His People Israel was.... This sort of event is waiting for you if you are capable of receiving it. I Honestly do not know that you are ready for the unsearchable riches he has for us.... You have to buy the eyesalve, you have to get the gold refined in the fire, and the clothing to cover your nakedness, But you first have to realize you need these things.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him....But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:9,14)
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
We will be with the Lord.
It will be over the earth, not on the earth.
Christ will rule from Jerusalem with the 144k.
Try putting several billion bodies, if not more, in Jerusalem and then call it the camp of the saints. That sounds more like a 1500 square mile permanent city. If you do not think billions have already entered Paradise, it would be interesting to see how any one can know the hearts of all that have lived on the earth. It has been estimated 117 billion people have lived. Even 2% is several billion. The current claim is 2 billion out of near 8 billion claim Christianity. So a lot more than would comfortably fit in one area of the map. I think it safe to say, 144k would fit comfortably in Jerusalem.
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That's straight out of the Jehovah's Witnesses teachings, you answered my suspicion, smiles
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Your suspicion is pure speculation. You don't even want Christ to rule for 1,000 years. You claim it will not happen. Read the verse, and stop jumping to conclusions. You are going to brake something.
"These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes"
Christ comes and sets up His throne in Jerusalem. You make that claim yourself. Then renig, denying that the 144k cannot rule with Christ, even though that verse claims the opposite of your big smile suspicion.
I will take the complement that I am a witness. I do not use the term Jehovah. How about Adonai, God, Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Prince, Lamb of God?
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When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth
As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)
Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim
(Then Cometh The End)
(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)
1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Come on... no one is calling God multiple gods. This thread is (partially) about the "people" who are "already" ...
Physically dead, Accounted dead crucified with Christ, soul Save, spirit Quickened (born Again)....which are they who are CALLED, CONVERTED....WHO are NOT subject to Wrath....and NOT present on Earth DURING, the Tribulation... Duress, Destruction and Wrath occuring upon the Earth.
You argue against the rapture of the Converted, being called UP above the Earth during the tribulation...
BUT...
Never say, WHY.
WHY ... for what purpose, do you believe,
God WILLS the Converted to be present on Earth, subject to, appointed to suffer the Wrath and Devastation upon the Earth?
Please answer your reasoning for that.
This thread is also (partially) about the Converted "being" on Earth, DURING the "Second coming". Please, settle with your reasoning the question asked, then we can move on to addressing the Second coming.
Thanks,
Taken
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The vast majority of your responses, are your words void of scripture as I have been staring for the past few days
More scripture and less your words
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Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived
Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?
1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?
The Above Claims (Don't Exist)
Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ
100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Look, not going to play your game.
I expressly state MY VIEW in MY WORDS.
Your "game" is a Broad sweeping demand that "every word" I express be "verified" with Scripture.
No, I am NOT going to play your "game". It's an old worn out "tactic", played by others as well, to simply Deflect from a topic.
If YOU have "something" I SAID, (my word), that YOU believe IS CONTRARY to Scripture...
YOU, HAVE EVERY OPTION to...
QUOTE "exactly" what I SAID.
REQUEST "a Scriptural QUOTE" that verifies WHAT I SAID".
Until you engage in a forthright conversation, I have no intention of being sucked into your game playing.
You want to Read a Long list of Scriptural Quotes?.... get a Bible.
You disagree with or wonder about something I said?....Use the provided QUOTE Feature to expressly Identify WHAT I said...
And State, that you expressly Disagree...
Or that;
You are incapable of searching the Scriptures to Verify in Scripture, what I said
* Not my requirement to GUESS what Exactly you disagree with.
* Not my requirement to Search the Scriptures FOR YOU.
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