FHII said:
Not true.... NO scriptural evidence supports Dec 25th, and nearly ALL historical evidence states that Dec 25th was picked due to pagan influences. Furthermore, the Christian writings you are referring to are closer to 100 years away from the Apostles and NOT based at all on what the Apostles said, making them virtually meaningless.
The truth is that when we look at
actual historical documents they do in fact support a December birth. You may call the writings of a Christian theologian that date to within 100 years of the Apostles “meaningless” and toss it in the trash if that’s the way you treat historical documents, but like it or not it does prove that the earliest Christians did in fact believe that Jesus was born on December 25.
So where is your evidence that they only picked that date because of pagan influences? Where is your 1900-year old document proving such a slanderous accusation? Bring it forth and let’s look it over.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
marksman said:
I think it is a case of you want to believe that.
Actually that’s not true. As a young Christian I was stung by the words of some rather nasty folks to whom I naively showed every kindness and invited into my home to share coffee and Bible study when they accused me before my young children of “idolatry” for celebrating Christmas. So I determined to look into the matter and try, to the best of my ability, to determine the truth. It was of no consequence to me when Jesus was born, it only mattered that my walk with Christ through this life be as true and pure as a sincere and earnest hunger to know the truth could afford.
I do not defend the date that Christians have held as that of our Lord’s birth since the beginning of the faith because I want it to be so, but because I am convinced after years of study that it is in fact so. For me, truth is more important than some church or some men’s doctrine, and especially doctrines that are handed down from some kind of law-giver, whether it’s men in robes in cathedrals in Rome or men in suits in offices in Brooklyn.
marksman said:
In scripture it talks about shepherds being in a field watching their flock by night. In December in Palestine it is winter and very often snow. That being the case, the shepherds would not keep their sheep outdoors in fields and that being the case, it must have been at a time when the temperatures were warmer.
And where did you get this idea? Scripture also says that Jacob tended Laban’s sheep for 20 years and he was in the fields with the sheep in the drought of summer and in the frosty nights, so day and night year round. And in two different tractates of early Jewish writings it specifically states that during 2nd Temple times sheep laid out in the summer and in the rainy season.
Have you ever been to Bethlehem on Christmas Eve? Ever seen pictures of the midnight mass celebrated at Manger Square? The average nighttime low in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve is 42 degrees. Google it and check for yourself. Now are you honestly going to argue that 42 degrees is too cold for
wool covered sheep to be outside? Why don’t you google “Christmas Eve Manger Square” images and take a look at the pictures. Not just one or two, but dozens. Then come back and tell us how people, even women and children, can be outside, dressed in rather light jackets and winter wear, and yet it’s too cold for wooly sheep to be outside!
marksman said:
That is why most scholars put the date somewhere in October.
“
Most scholars?” The December 25 date has 2000 years of Christian scholarship, the finest Christian thinkers and theologians since the Apostle Paul. What scholars are you referring to?
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
