Now it's not me, but sin that lives in me

[marks]

Question: When we say, "I was living in the Flesh back in the day." Are we saying that we were living in our body back in the day, or that we were living in sin?

But that's our modern vernacular. I think it more confuses than clarifies. I prefer to stay with Biblical terminology.

And I don't question whether or not I'll learn something from you, I expect to. I hope to, at least!

"mortify your members that are on the earth." Now what could that possibly mean?

:)

Much love!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

But that's our modern vernacular. I think it more confuses than clarifies. I prefer to stay with Biblical terminology.

And I don't question whether or not I'll learn something from you, I expect to. I hope to, at least!

"mortify your members that are on the earth." Now what could that possibly mean?

:)

Much love!

The Heart of the matter is in Colossians 2:9-15. There really isn't anything that I can add to it . . . it's crystal clear. Until we acknowledge these Seven perfect verses, the Bible will always be elusive. The below verses talk about this "flesh" and what must be done with it. Flesh being the Sinful Nature. For certain when the KJV speaks of "he quickened together with him," what was "it" that was to be quickened together with Jesus? The foreskin of a man's phallus? Oh my . . . no. What was quickened together with Christ were our sins, and one could make the argument that the Sin Nature itself was nailed to the Cross along with Christ, thus putting it all to death.

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

The entire Bible was written with this exact "Operation of God" at the forefront of His entire Plan. Without Circumcision of the Heart, there can be no Holy Salvation. And this is the Work of the Spirit . . . not of man himself, lest he should boast.

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Our Powerful God told us that He would give us new Hearts and Spirit, and we read of this Holy Operation above in Colossians 2:9-15.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV - "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God."

And it is repeated 15 chapters later (must be important):

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

In fact, this Circumcision is what it would have meant for Adam and Eve to have eaten from the Tree of Life just after sinning. No . . . humanity would have to wait some 5,500 years (or so) before Christ would reappear on a Tree, Cursed and having become the Curse for us . . . we eat from His Tree of Life, from His Body, and we will live forever.

Hebrews 10:22 KJV - "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

A Heart that is sprinkled [from] an evil conscience is a Heart that has been Circumcised by Christ. They are the exact . . . same . . . thing. Our Hearts were once controlled by the Devil, but a sprinkled Heart is controlled by the Divine Nature. This does not imply each and every thought, but "controlled" much like a rudder controls a ship. Controlled, just as Job was controlled. In fact, Satan was controlled by God, for it was God who set the boundaries by which Satan could employ his evil plans. It is senseless to fight the will of God! Saul, later turned Paul, gives us this example:

Acts 26:14 NLT - "We all fell down, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is useless for you to fight against my will."

Yes, I used the NLT because it clarifies the point that scripture consistently points out, which is that the Lord is in control of all things. All things. Nothing is outside of the total control of the Lord, and why? So that His Mysterious Plan would and will be fulfilled.

Now here's the deal. If what I have clearly displayed does not at least raise your eyebrow in consideration, there won't be much for me to say about it within this thread. I only have so much time . . . hope you understand.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. :)

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm wondering where you are thinking the corruption of the flesh is found?

It is found in our nature, our instincts. With the mind the Jew knows the Ten Commandments and thus serves God, but their carnal instincts want to do the opposite - especially when it comes to the strongest drive - sex.

Our nature is what is born again. It is what Paul calls the flesh. There was never a solution to this problem until Jesus died to break that curse. And our new birth replicates His resurrection. But we can only understand this if we have actually been supernaturally born again. Many Christians, especially those who can't understand this because they are not born again and not spiritually minded, still cling to Romans 7 and are determined to believe that is the life of a born again Christian. They don't go by the context, but by their own lack of experience.

Those Christians who try to act out the Law of Moses and just add belief in Jesus, but have never been born again, I don't know what their eternal future holds. Only God knows. Personally, I was raised a Seventh-day Adventist until I was 23, so knew the law as well as most Jews. And yet even though I served God with my mind, mainly never lying or stealing even a piece of candy, my sin of choice was sexual after high school. And then I in a debate over the gifts of the Spirit that I did not believe in as a cessationist, God showed me in His word that I was wrong. It was like a light bulb went on with full knowledge. But it took six years to actually experience the supernatural baptism of fire. The Holy Spirit. I now know what it is like to experience the new birth. And you are literally taken out of your carnal desires and they are substituted with power over sin.

You will never understand Romans 7:17 until you realize that is someone UNDER the law with no power over what you do, not someone BORN AGAIN who only desires righteousness.

This is something only the Spirit can reveal to you if you ever experience being born again of the Spirit. Because right now it is over your head. So this is my last response to the same question over and over.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Luke 11:13
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

It is found in our nature, our instincts. With the mind the Jew knows the Ten Commandments and thus serves God, but their carnal instincts want to do the opposite - especially when it comes to the strongest drive - sex.

Our nature is what is born again. It is what Paul calls the flesh. There was never a solution to this problem until Jesus died to break that curse. And our new birth replicates His resurrection. But we can only understand this if we have actually been supernaturally born again. Many Christians, especially those who can't understand this because they are not born again and not spiritually-minded, still cling to Romans 7 and are determined to believe that is the life of a born again Christian. They don't go by the context, but by their own lack of experience.

Those Christians who try to act out the Law of Moses and just add belief in Jesus, but have never been born again, I don't know what their eternal future holds. Only God knows. Personally, I was raised a Seventh-day Adventist until I was 23, so knew the law as well as most Jews. And yet even though I served God with my mind, mainly never lying or stealing even a piece of candy, my sin of choice was sexual after high school. And then I in a debate over the gifts of the Spirit that I did not believe in as a cessationist, God showed me in His word that I was wrong. It was like a light bulb went on with full knowledge. But it took six years to actually experience the supernatural baptism of fire. The Holy Spirit. I now know what it is like to experience the new birth. And you are literally taken out of your carnal desires and they are substituted with power over sin.

You will never understand Romans 7:17 until you realize that is someone UNDER the law with no power over what you do, not someone BORN AGAIN who only desires righteousness.

This is something only the Spirit can reveal to you if you ever experience being born again of the Spirit. Because right now it is over your head. So this is my last response to the same question over and over.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Luke 11:13
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Did you ever hit the bullseye! As you may remember, I, too, used to believe that I really understood the Bible. That is until He awakened me to His Almighty Power. If I had felt more of God's Holy Power, a Power built on Love and Peace, my physical body would have sustained some form of damage or alteration. After my cleansing of the Sin Nature, the Purification of my soul, I then felt the Power of God in a measurable way. Since then, the Bible is not the same. Since that day, the Lord has been teaching me, teaching me, and teaching me nothing that I have ever been taught in any sermon, live or recorded in any format. And what has the Lord been teaching me? Everything that you have written above!

Let it be said again . . . no one can understand the Word of God, to the degree that He wants it to be understood until He has enabled their Heart, soul, and mind in a way that can comprehend His Mysterious Plan, a Plan that is outlined and slowly being fulfilled from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Behold]

We go to heaven if the Curse of Adam and Eve has been removed, if the debt for sin has been paid, and if a person has received the Indwelling Holy Spirit. This is the sprinkled blood that expiates sin in the Old Testament.

You are describing being born again.

Being born again is the only reason you will end up in Heaven.
And why is that?
Because if you are born again, you are already there.... "in Christ".

 

[Behold]

These are deep questions, and I honestly don't have the desire to go round and round. However, I will say, that there is no way that the Indwelling Holy Spirit is willing to reside within a body that is corrupt, as you say.

God lives inside every born again believer.
However, this is not the "body"...this is the "incorruptible" "new Creation", that is "in Christ".
Thats the "Temple of the Holy Spirit".

 

[marks]

Because right now it is over your head. So this is my last response to the same question over and over.

OK.

Much love!

 

[marks]

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Luke 11:13
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

The beautiful thing is, as He reveals truth to us, we can know that it is real truth because Every Single Word in the Bible harmonized together, holds it's own meaning, and fits within it context, both macro- and micro-.

Comparing Spiritual with Spiritual . . . such a good description of looking at the spiritual truths in Scriptuer, comparing them one to another, comparing with what we find inside us, letting it conform us.

When I find that I cannot explain or harmonize a passage while still holding to what that passage itself says, this will always cause me to return to the Scripture to find what it is I'm missing. God is so very faithful to answer my questions to Him, with the certainty of seeing it taught in His Word.

And that is why this thread is focused on the verse in my OP, because this is a passage that has to mean what it says, and has to fit with everything else.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, I used the NLT because it clarifies the point that scripture consistently points out, which is that the Lord is in control of all things.

So long as you understand the NLT makes Scripture say things it doesn't, for instance, Saul . . . it is hard for you to kick against the goads, compared to NLT "it is useless for you to fight against My will."

It does accentuate God's control, however, it doesn't really say what the Greek says. So while I still love the NLT, and find a certain usefulness for it in coming to learn difficult passages, like the first part of Romans 8.

In this case, where the Greek says, It is hard for you to kick against the goads, this is a very different meaning from "it is useless for you to fight against my will." In the one case, this signifies Paul is having difficulties in resisting against such measures that God is using. In the other case, this states that Paul has no say over what God choosed to do."

Now, whether or not God has complete control of Paul, whether that is true or not, has no bearing on whether this is what that verse says, and, simply stated, it does not itself say that.

Have you reconsidered a word study of "sarx"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

"mortify your members that are on the earth." Now what could that possibly mean?

You have a terrestrial body, and a celestial life. Your terrestrial body will engage in such acts as these, so your celestial being is to put that to death.

Your members that are on the earth. Literally parts of the body, a limb, for instance.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 12:4-5
4) For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5) So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

James 3:5-6
5) Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6) And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

James 4:1
1) From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Matthew 5:29-30
29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

There are many places where "member" is used that show this speaks of parts of the body. We are members one of another, and members of Christ's body.

The tongue is a member, the hand is a member, the eye is a member. The motions of sin work in our members. Lusts war in our members.

There is a law of sin which is in my members.

Much love!