Obsessed with Rome

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pom2014

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Dec 6, 2014
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The church in Rome had no authority in the empire until the fall of constantinople. They had wealth and influence but no authority.

After the fall they consolidated power and became what they are now. Roman catholics will say that's a sign of God, but really it was a political move to kill the orthodox church and grab the authority of the empire.

Didn't last long as the protestants came soon after thanks to the thing that fundamentalists protestants hate. Humanism.
 

pom2014

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Dec 6, 2014
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Wormwood said:
So no one has it right but you?
I actually go by what he said. Not what the men say.

King said don't pray in public, what do they teach? Pray wherever you like.
King says don't give alms in public, what do they say? Give often anywhere and take a tax write off.
King says divorce ONLY if there is adultery, what do they say? I'll annul anything just to make you happy.
King says NO remarriage while your spouse lives, what do they say? It'll be 200-500 dollars for the great hall to have your reception.
King says if you live by the sword you will die by the sword, what do they say? Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
King says forgive or you cannot be forgiven, what do they say? Hate the sinners, until you find out that they are sinners too, then they want forgiveness.
King says harm children and you should drown yourself, what do they say? Move the clerics around so no one knows they touched any child.

The list goes ON and ON and ON.

So who is going to take a stand and be the fruit inspector and say these trees all are bad?

If WE do not, then we are complicit. And we are as rotten as they.

Support their rebellion to the King and YOU become a rebel. I will not do that.
 

Wormwood

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Nothing like smearing and denouncing everyone and everything as enemies of God with a few, blanket statements. I guess Jesus should have condemned the widow who gave her mite since she did it in view of Jesus and the disciples. smh.

We all need a little grace pom...even you. But I guess its easier to assume everyone is out to rebel against the king with every doctrine or act of which one doesn't approve.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
pom2014 said:
I actually go by what he said. Not what the men say.

King said don't pray in public, what do they teach? Pray wherever you like.
King says don't give alms in public, what do they say? Give often anywhere and take a tax write off.
King says divorce ONLY if there is adultery, what do they say? I'll annul anything just to make you happy.
King says NO remarriage while your spouse lives, what do they say? It'll be 200-500 dollars for the great hall to have your reception.
King says if you live by the sword you will die by the sword, what do they say? Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.
King says forgive or you cannot be forgiven, what do they say? Hate the sinners, until you find out that they are sinners too, then they want forgiveness.
King says harm children and you should drown yourself, what do they say? Move the clerics around so no one knows they touched any child.

The list goes ON and ON and ON.

So who is going to take a stand and be the fruit inspector and say these trees all are bad?

If WE do not, then we are complicit. And we are as rotten as they.

Support their rebellion to the King and YOU become a rebel. I will not do that.
Jesus did not say don't pray in public. He said don't pray in order to be seen of men. There is a subtle but important difference between someone who is praying in public in order to to genuinely seek the Lord's blessing for someone, and praying to boast of ones piety. Jesus Himself prayed in public else how would we have known the details of so many of His prayers? Do we refuse to give to worthy causes because they are a publicly located donation box? As for divorce and remarriage, right on. As for war, I am intimately familiar with at least one denomination whose members, if conscripted, always apply to be medics. Child abuse? Indefensible. Like Wormwood said, blanket statements are not appropriate. Maybe not everyone gets everything right all the time. But then that is why we will always need a Mediator. You, me, all our churches, everyone. Till Jesus returns. Not only do we all need grace but we also need to be gracious. That said, while always loving individuals, I will not hold back if a particular organization, denomination,institution or some-such constantly relentlessly with malice and forethought openly or secretly opposes truth.
pom2014 said:
The church in Rome had no authority in the empire until the fall of constantinople. They had wealth and influence but no authority.

After the fall they consolidated power and became what they are now. Roman catholics will say that's a sign of God, but really it was a political move to kill the orthodox church and grab the authority of the empire.

Didn't last long as the protestants came soon after thanks to the thing that fundamentalists protestants hate. Humanism.
Hello Pom. I'm not to familiar with the history of this fall of Constantinople you speak of, and its effects on Rome. Could you give further detail please? And I am somewhat confused as to the last sentence...humanism brought about the reformation? Is that what you are saying?
 

Keeth

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Apr 11, 2015
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pom2014 said:
The church in Rome had no authority in the empire until the fall of constantinople. They had wealth and influence but no authority.

After the fall they consolidated power and became what they are now. Roman catholics will say that's a sign of God, but really it was a political move to kill the orthodox church and grab the authority of the empire.

Didn't last long as the protestants came soon after thanks to the thing that fundamentalists protestants hate. Humanism.
Protestants were around long long before Humanism. They just weren't called that yet. The same can be said for humanism itself as well. Yet it is not Protestantism which owes it's existence or increased power and influence to Humanism, but rather the exact opposite. The freedom of many to grow and thrive in influence and action, including humanists, was gained by far more Protestant sweat and blood than any other. Their immovable stance upon the word of God, demanded their own freedom and therefore the freedoms of others also. As far as your continued and false claim of the Church of Rome having no authority, observe the following -

[SIZE=16pt] 3-BABYLON[/SIZE]​
(All emphasis mine)​

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 14 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]8[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In order to understand this angel’s message, we will have to first know who Babylon is. What is the wine of her fornication that all nations are made to drink? We know that the angel cannot be referring to the literal nation of Babylon, it ceased to exist long before the above message was given to the apostle John. So we must find out who, or what, this Babylon represents. Let us examine the scriptures for more details.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 16 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]17[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In chapter sixteen, we see that Babylon is around in the end to receive the judgment of God. Her judgment is connected with the judgment of the world. In verse nineteen, we see that she is that great city, which is connected to the cities of the nations, which will all fall in the judgment of great Babylon. Babylon then, is the great city, and leader of a planet in rebellion against God and His people. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Chapter seventeen reveals more traits with which to identify Babylon. She is the Mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth. Being a mother, she must have children. The kings of the earth commit fornication with her. She has also made the inhabitance of the earth drunk with the wine of her fornication. Her cup, which no doubt contains the wine, is full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. Lastly, she herself is drunk with the blood of the saints, and the martyrs of Jesus. That is to say, she is responsible for the persecution, and murder of God’s people on earth. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]That’s a lot of identifying marks. Let’s take a look at some of them. We’ll start with the fact that Babylon is the Mother of Harlots. What does a harlot represent in the scriptures?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD. 15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hosea 4:15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The nation of Israel was referred to as a harlot by God, when she had illicit relationships with the kings, or nations around her, and their gods. That is to say, when she trusted and relied upon the power of other nations, and their gods, over the true God of heaven and earth. The same no doubt will hold true for those who now claim to be God’s people, but have illicit relationships with the nations of this earth, and their gods. That is to say, with those who claim to be Christians, but are involved in the same.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The writer contends that the great city we are discussing is none other than Rome, and the harlot, is none other than the Church of Rome. For she is that original form of apostate Christianity, that first abandoned the power of the Holy Spirit in favor of the power of the state. She leaned on the latter, because she had already lost the former. Through compromise, and mixing pagan practices with the true religion, which is an abomination to God, she lost the power of the Holy Spirit, and thus strove for the power of the state.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It is not such a simple thing as to say that the Church of Rome was that apostate Christian institution which first sought the power of the state, over the power of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, she is the result of apostate Christianity seeking the power of the state, because she had lost the power of the Holy Spirit. Among the various apostate Christian entities of the day, she is the one who gained the favor of the state, to the furtherance of her ends. The struggle between these various groups of apostate Christians requires to much detail to address. The observation of which, would convince any true Christian of their fallen state. The purpose of the following is to establish the fact of her relations, and empowerment, with and by the kings of this earth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In any case, Constantine, the first supposed Christian emperor of the Roman empire, was the first to give apostate Christianity the power of the state. He did so by enacting the first Sunday law. Observe the following.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is : [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law : [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday. Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on "the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title, Dies Solis , familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." (History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, sec. 75, par. 5.-Schaff.) ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 391 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In the above quotes, we see some of the identifying marks of Babylon being fulfilled. The establishment of the first Sunday law came about through the illicit relationship of those who claimed to be God’s people, with unconverted and even pagan kings of the earth. In Constantine, we find the first Emperor of Rome to begin committing fornication with the Mother of Harlots, that is Babylon. Let’s look at some more from A.T. Jones.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate, paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal religion was created.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally, a new religion." ( Milman - History of Christianity, book 3, chap. 1, par. 1 )The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 361 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]By instituting the first Sunday laws, Constantine gave the Church of Rome the power of the state. For this law commanded all, those in, and out of the faith, to observe this apostate Christian institution. This was the beginning of the realization of the Church of Rome’s purpose in having illicit relationships with the kings of the earth. By these relations, she hoped to establish herself in a position of power above all others. Though she claims to have been established by Christ, through the first Pope Peter, she was really established through the power of the kings of this earth. It was these with whom she committed spiritual adultery, and fornication. Let’s look at some more historical facts confirming these truths found in the book The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“The Catholic Church demanded assistance in her ambitious aim to make her power and authority absolute over all; and for Constantine’s purposes it was essential that the church should be a unit. These two considerations combined to produce results both immediate and remote, that proved a curse to the time then present and to ages to follow. The immediate result was that Constantine had no sooner compassed the destruction of Licinius in A.D. 323, than he issued an edict against the Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, Cataphrygians, and “all who devised and supported heresies by means of private assemblies,” denouncing them and their heresies, and commanding them all to enter the Catholic Church. The edict runs as follows: —[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus, to the heretics: Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in league with destruction: All your counsels are opposed to the truth,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]but familiar with deeds of baseness; fit subjects for the fabulous follies of the stage: and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with defilement: ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And indeed it is well to turn one’s ears and eyes from such a subject, lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and freshness of one’s own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure? “Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion, take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church, and uniting with it in holy fellowship, whereby you will be enabled to arrive at the knowledge of the truth. In any case, the delusions of your perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with and mar the felicity of our present times; I mean the impious and wretched doublemindedness of heretics and schismatics. For it is an object worthy of that prosperity which we enjoy through the favor of God, to endeavor to bring back those who in time past were living in the hope of future blessing, from all irregularity and error, to the right path, from darkness to light, from vanity to truth, from death to salvation. And in order that this remedy may be applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said), that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be worthy of the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]name) which belong to heretics, and that these be made over without delay to the Catholic Church; that any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility whatever be left for any future gathering; in order that from this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] ( [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Eusebius’s- “Life of Constantine,” book 3, chaps. 64, 65. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Some of the penal regulations of this edict “were copied from the edicts of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights of humanity.” ( Gibbon- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“Decline and Fall,” chap. 21, par. 1. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]As is obvious from the above edict, the establishment of the Church of Rome had nothing to do with the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To the contrary, she was established through the power of the state, not the power of the Holy Spirit. The emperor that established her power did so for purely political reasons, the establishment of his authority above all civil, or religious entities of the day. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] As the emperor of Rome, Constantine was already the head of all the pagan religions of that empire, and was himself a devout worshipper of the sun. His supposed conversion to Christianity was nothing more than a political ploy to be the head of this new religion also. Thus his purpose was, as already stated, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." This settled uniformity was to be under his authority, and complete control. Therefore, the establishment of the Church of Rome was brought about by the selfish motives of a pagan emperor who would embrace Christianity as a means of obtaining his goal. Not to mention the selfish motives and ambitions of apostate Christians who were themselves seeking the power, and prestige of this world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Apostate Christianity, having entered the stage of the politics of this world, has never ceased to be entangled in the same. She is ever entrenched in the political strife, struggles for supremacy, and unquenchable thirst for power of the same. The Church of Rome is the Mother of all supposed Christian institutions which have become more concerned with the politics of this world, and its struggles for power, than the fulfilling of the gospel commission. “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” ( Matt. 24:14 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The following are more historical quotes, and facts regarding the establishment, or re-establishment of the Church of Rome’s authority. As a political entity of this world, her authority, and influence have continually, and are continually being challenged by others of the same. The history of her political struggles, and alliances with the kings of this earth, are sufficient proof that she is the Mother Of Harlots, who commits fornication with the kings of the earth. Thus, this identifying mark is fulfilled in her history. Of the many books that could be studied, for a more detailed history of her politics, the following are recommended by the writer. The Great Empires of Prophecy, and The Two Republics, both written by Alonzo Jones.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Gratian was but the tool of the bishops. Ambrose was at that time bishop of Milan, and never was episcopal ambition more arrogantly asserted than in that insolent prelate. Soon the mind of the bishop asserted the supremacy over that of the boy emperor, and Ambrose “wielded at his will the weak and irresolute Gratian.” ( Milman- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 8, par. 28. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But above all things else that Gratian did, that which redounded most to the glory of the Catholic Church was his choice of Theodosius as associate emperor. Valens was killed in a battle with the Goths, A.D. 378. A stronger hand than that of a youth of nineteen was required to hold the reins of government in the East. In the establishment of the Catholic Church, the place of Theodosius is second only to that of Constantine. About the beginning of the year 380 he was baptized by the Catholic bishop of Thessalonica, and immediately afterward he issued the following edict: —[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“It is our pleasure that the nations which are governed by our clemency and moderation, should steadfastly adhere to the religion which was taught by St. Peter to the Romans, which faithful tradition has preserved, and which is now professed by the pontiff Damasus, and by Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the discipline of the apostles, and the doctrine of the gospel, let us believe the sole deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: under an equal majesty, and a pious Trinity. We authorize the followers of this doctrine to assume the title of Catholic Christians; and as we judge that all others are extravagant madmen, we brand them with the infamous name of “heretics,” and declare that their conventicles shall no longer usurp the respectable appellation of churches. Besides the condemnation of divine justice, they must expect to suffer the severe penalties which our authority, guided by heavenly wisdom, shall think proper[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]to inflict upon them.”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] ( [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall,” chap. 27, par. 6. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]This law was issued in the names of the three emperors, Gratian, Valentinian II, and Theodosius. “Thus the religion of the whole Roman world was enacted by two feeble boys and a rude Spanish soldier.” ( Milman- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 9, par. 1. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In the supremacy of the papacy, Justinian holds the same place as does Constantine and Theodosius in the establishment of the Catholic Church. “Among the titles of greatness, the name ‘Pious’ was most pleasing to his ears; to promote the temporal and spiritual interests of the church was the serious business of his life; and the duty of father of his country was often[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]sacrificed to that of defender of the faith.” ( Gibbon - “Decline and Fall,” chap. xlvii, par. 23. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“The emperor Justinian unites in himself the most opposite vices, — insatiable rapacity and lavish prodigality, intense pride and contemptible weakness, unmeasured ambition and dastardly cowardice.... In the Christian emperor, seem to meet the crimes of those who won or secured their empire by assassination of all whom they feared, the passion for public diversions without the accomplishments of Nero or the brute strength of Commodus,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]the dotage of Claudius.” ( Milman - [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Latin Christianity,” book 3, chap. 4, par. 2. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]In the year 532, Justinian issued an edict declaring his intention “to unite all men in one faith.” Whether they were Jews, Gentiles, or Christians, all who did not within three months profess and embrace the Catholic faith, were by the edict “declared infamous, and as such excluded from all employments both civil and military; rendered incapable of leaving anything by will; and all their estates confiscated, whether real or personal.” As a result of this cruel edict, “Great numbers were driven from their habitations with their wives and children, stripped and naked. Others betook themselves to flight, carrying with them what they could conceal, for their[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]support and maintenance; but they were plundered of what little they had, and many of them inhumanly massacred.” ( Bower - [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of the Popes,” Boniface 2, par. 2. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]THE CODE OF OUR LORD
THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN.
[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]SECOND EDITION. [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=12pt]BOOK 1. [/SIZE]​
[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=12pt]TITLE 1. [/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE
CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE
SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM.
[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] 1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Dated at Thessalonica, on the third of the Kalends of March, during the Consulate of Gratian, Consul for the fifth time, and Theodosius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 2. The Same Emperors to Eutropius, Praetorian Prefect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Let no place be afforded to heretics for the conduct of their ceremonies, and let no occasion be offered for them to display the insanity of their obstinate minds. Let all persons know that if any privilege has been fraudulently obtained by means of any rescript whatsoever, by persons of this kind, it will not be valid. Let all bodies of heretics be prevented from holding unlawful assemblies, and let the name of the only and the greatest God be celebrated everywhere, and let the observance of the Nicene Creed, recently transmitted to Our ancestors, and firmly established by the testimony and practice of Divine Religion, always remain secure. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (1) Moreover, he who is an adherent of the Nicene Faith, and a true believer in the Catholic religion, should be understood to be one [pg. 10] who believes that Almighty God and Christ, the son of God, are one person, God of God, Light of Light; and let no one, by rejection, dishonor the Holy Spirit, whom we expect, and have received from the Supreme Parent of all things, in whom the sentiment of a pure and undefiled faith flourishes, as well as the belief in the undivided substance of a Holy Trinity, which true believers indicate by the Greek word [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]These things, indeed do not require further proof, and should be respected. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (2) Let those who do not accept those doctrines cease to apply the name of true religion to their fraudulent belief; and let them be branded with their open crimes, and, having been removed from the threshhold of all churches, be utterly excluded from them, as We forbid all heretics to hold unlawful assemblies within cities. If, however, any seditious outbreak should be attempted, We order them to be driven outside the the walls of the City, with relentless violence, and We direct that all Catholic Churches, throughout the entire world, shall be placed under the control of the orthodox bishops who have embraced the Nicene Creed. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Given at Constantinople, on the fourth of the ides of January, under the Consulate of Flavius Eucharius and Flavius Syagrius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 3. The Emperor Martian to Palladius, Praetorian Prefect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] No one, whether he belongs to the clergy, the army, or to any other condition of men, shall, with a view to causing a tumult and giving occasion to treachery, attempt to discuss the Christian religion publicly in the presence of an assembled and listening crowd; for he commits an injury against the most reverend Synod who publicly contradicts what has once been decided and properly established; as those matters relative to the Christian faith have been settled by the priests who met at Chalcedony by Our order, and are known to be in conformity with the apostolic explanations and conclusions of the three hundred and eight Holy Fathers assembled in Nicea, and the hundred and fifty who met in this Imperial City; for the violators of this law shall not go unpunished, because they not only oppose the true faith, but they also profane its venerated mysteries by engaging in contests of this kind with Jews and Pagans. Therefore, if any person who has ventured to publicly discuss religious matters is a member of the clergy, he shall be removed from his order; if he is a member of the army, he shall be degraded; and any others who are guilty of this offence, who are freemen, shall be banished from this most Sacred City, and shall be subjected to the punishment prescribed by law according to the power of the court; and if they are slaves, they shall undergo severest penalty. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Given at Constantinople, on the eighth of the Ides of February, under the consulship of Patricius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 4. John, Bishop of the City of Rome, to his most Illustrious and Merciful Son Justinian. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Among the conspicuous reasons for praising your wisdom and gentleness, Most Christian of Emperors, and one which radiates light [pg. 11]as a star, is the fact that through love of the Faith, and actuated by zeal for charity, you, learned in ecclesiastical discipline, have preserved reverence for the See of Rome, and have subjected all things to its authority, and have given it unity. The following precept was communicated to its founder, that is to say, the first of the Apostles, by the mouth of the Lord, namely: "Feed my lambs." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] This See is indeed the head of all churches, as the rules of the Fathers and the decrees of the Emperors assert, and the words of your most reverend piety testify. It is therefore claimed that what the Scriptures state, namely, "By Me Kings reign, and the Powers dispense justice;" will be accomplished in you. For there is nothing which shines with a more brilliant lustre than genuine faith when displayed by a prince, since there is nothing which prevents destruction as true religion does, for as both of them have reference to the Author of Life and Light, they disperse darkness and prevent apostasy. Wherefore, Most Glorious of Princes, the Divine Power is implored by the prayers of all to preserve your piety in this ardor for the Faith, in this devotion of your mind, and in this zeal for true religion, without failure, during your entire existence. For we believe that this is for the benefit of the Holy Churches, as it was written, "The king rules with his lips," and again, "The heart of the King is in the hand of God, and it will incline to whatever side God wishes"; that is to say, that He may confirm your empire, and maintain your kingdoms for the peace of the Church and the unity of religion; guard their authority, and preserve him in that sublime tranquillity which is so grateful to him; and no small change is granted by the Divine Power through whose agency a divided church is not afflicted by any griefs or subject to any reproaches. For it is written, "A just king, who is upon his throne, has no reason to apprehend any misfortune." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] We have received with all due respect the evidences of your serenity, through Hypatius and Demetrius, most holy men, my brothers and fellow-bishops, from whose statements we have learned that you have promulgated an Edict addressed to your faithful people, and dictated by your love of the Faith, for the purpose of overthrowing the designs of heretics, which is in accordance with the evangelical tenets, and which we have confirmed by our authority with the consent of our brethren and fellow bishops, for the reason that it is in conformity with the apostolic doctrine. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt] The following is the text of the letter of the Emperor Justinian, Victorious, Pious, Happy, Renowned, Triumphant, always Augustus, to John, Patriarch, and most Holy Archbishop of the fair City of Rome: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] With honor to the Apostolic See, and to your Holiness, which is, and always has been remembered in Our prayers, both now and formerly, and honoring your happiness, as is proper in the case of one who is considered as a father, We hasten to bring to the knowledge of Your Holiness everything relating to the condition of the Church, as We have always had the greatest desire to preserve the unity of your Apostolic See, and the condition of the Holy Churches of God, as they [pg. 12] exist at the present time, that they may remain without disturbance or opposition. Therefore, We have exerted Ourselves to unite all the priests of the East and subject them to the See of Your Holiness, and hence the questions which have at present arisen, although they are manifest and free from doubt, and according to the doctrines of your Apostolic See, are constantly firmly observed and preached by all priests, We have still considered it necessary that they should be brought to the attention of Your Holiness. For we do not suffer anything which has reference to the state of the Church, even though what causes difficulty may be clear and free from doubt, to be discussed without being brought to the notice of Your Holiness, because you are the head of all the Holy Churches, for We shall exert Ourselves in every way (as has already been stated), to increase the honor and authority of your See. [/SIZE]




[SIZE=12pt]One Hundred and Thirty-First New Constitution.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]The Emperor Justinian to Peter, Most Glorious Imperial Praetorian Prefect.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]PREFACE.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] We enact the present law with reference to ecclesiastical rules and privileges and other subjects in which holy churches and religious establishments are intrusted. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Chapter I.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] Concerning Four Holy Councils. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Therefore We order that the sacred, ecclesiastical rules which were adopted and confirmed by the four Holy Councils, that is to say, that of the three hundred and eighteen bishops held at Nicea, that of the one hundred and fifty bishops held at Constantinople, the first one of Ephesus, where Nestorius was condemned, and the one assembled at Chalcedon, where Eutyches and Nestorius were anathematized, shall be considered as laws. We accept the dogmas of these four Councils as sacred writings, and observe their rules as legally effective. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Chapter II.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] Concerning The Precedence of Partriarchs. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Hence, in accordance with the provisions of these Councils, We order that the Most Holy Pope of ancient Rome shall hold the first rank of all the Pontiffs, but the Most Blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, or New Rome, shall occupy the second place after the Holy Apostolic See of ancient Rome, which shall take precedence over all other sees. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Source: Corpus Juris Civilis (The Civil Law, the Code of Justinian), by S.P. Scott, A.M., published by the Central Trust Company, Cincinnati, copyright 1932, Volume 12 [of 17], pages 9-12, 125.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt] The Church of Rome presently entertains diplomatic relations with over 170 nations of this earth. She has been, she is, and she ever will be, a political entity of this world. This is why she ever pursues greater power and influence in the same. She does not believe in the separation of church and state. Her rise to power within this country, is in conjunction with the crumbling of the wall which separates the two. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The annals of history testify, that there is no true freedom without a separation of church and state. Maintaining freedom for our future, depends upon remembering the lessons of our past. The following quote is from the late Pope John Paul’s, APOSTOLIC LETTER, DIES DOMINI. This is no doubt, one law that the Church of Rome will work on passing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It was through Sunday legislation that she usurped the power of the state in the past, and she will no doubt use the same proven method in the near future.[/SIZE]
 

JimParker

Active Member
Mar 31, 2015
396
39
28
Las Vegas, NV
Keeth said:
Protestants were around long long before Humanism. They just weren't called that yet. The same can be said for humanism itself as well. Yet it is not Protestantism which owes it's existence or increased power and influence to Humanism, but rather the exact opposite. The freedom of many to grow and thrive in influence and action, including humanists, was gained by far more Protestant sweat and blood than any other. Their immovable stance upon the word of God, demanded their own freedom and therefore the freedoms of others also. As far as your continued and false claim of the Church of Rome having no authority, observe the following -

[SIZE=16pt] 3-BABYLON[/SIZE]​
(All emphasis mine)​

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 14 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]8[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In order to understand this angel’s message, we will have to first know who Babylon is. What is the wine of her fornication that all nations are made to drink? We know that the angel cannot be referring to the literal nation of Babylon, it ceased to exist long before the above message was given to the apostle John. So we must find out who, or what, this Babylon represents. Let us examine the scriptures for more details.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 16 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]17[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In chapter sixteen, we see that Babylon is around in the end to receive the judgment of God. Her judgment is connected with the judgment of the world. In verse nineteen, we see that she is that great city, which is connected to the cities of the nations, which will all fall in the judgment of great Babylon. Babylon then, is the great city, and leader of a planet in rebellion against God and His people. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Chapter seventeen reveals more traits with which to identify Babylon. She is the Mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth. Being a mother, she must have children. The kings of the earth commit fornication with her. She has also made the inhabitance of the earth drunk with the wine of her fornication. Her cup, which no doubt contains the wine, is full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. Lastly, she herself is drunk with the blood of the saints, and the martyrs of Jesus. That is to say, she is responsible for the persecution, and murder of God’s people on earth. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]That’s a lot of identifying marks. Let’s take a look at some of them. We’ll start with the fact that Babylon is the Mother of Harlots. What does a harlot represent in the scriptures?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD. 15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Hosea 4:15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The nation of Israel was referred to as a harlot by God, when she had illicit relationships with the kings, or nations around her, and their gods. That is to say, when she trusted and relied upon the power of other nations, and their gods, over the true God of heaven and earth. The same no doubt will hold true for those who now claim to be God’s people, but have illicit relationships with the nations of this earth, and their gods. That is to say, with those who claim to be Christians, but are involved in the same.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The writer contends that the great city we are discussing is none other than Rome, and the harlot, is none other than the Church of Rome. For she is that original form of apostate Christianity, that first abandoned the power of the Holy Spirit in favor of the power of the state. She leaned on the latter, because she had already lost the former. Through compromise, and mixing pagan practices with the true religion, which is an abomination to God, she lost the power of the Holy Spirit, and thus strove for the power of the state.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It is not such a simple thing as to say that the Church of Rome was that apostate Christian institution which first sought the power of the state, over the power of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, she is the result of apostate Christianity seeking the power of the state, because she had lost the power of the Holy Spirit. Among the various apostate Christian entities of the day, she is the one who gained the favor of the state, to the furtherance of her ends. The struggle between these various groups of apostate Christians requires to much detail to address. The observation of which, would convince any true Christian of their fallen state. The purpose of the following is to establish the fact of her relations, and empowerment, with and by the kings of this earth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In any case, Constantine, the first supposed Christian emperor of the Roman empire, was the first to give apostate Christianity the power of the state. He did so by enacting the first Sunday law. Observe the following.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is : [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law : [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday. Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on "the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title, Dies Solis , familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." (History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, sec. 75, par. 5.-Schaff.) ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 391 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In the above quotes, we see some of the identifying marks of Babylon being fulfilled. The establishment of the first Sunday law came about through the illicit relationship of those who claimed to be God’s people, with unconverted and even pagan kings of the earth. In Constantine, we find the first Emperor of Rome to begin committing fornication with the Mother of Harlots, that is Babylon. Let’s look at some more from A.T. Jones.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate, paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal religion was created.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally, a new religion." ( Milman - History of Christianity, book 3, chap. 1, par. 1 )The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 361 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]By instituting the first Sunday laws, Constantine gave the Church of Rome the power of the state. For this law commanded all, those in, and out of the faith, to observe this apostate Christian institution. This was the beginning of the realization of the Church of Rome’s purpose in having illicit relationships with the kings of the earth. By these relations, she hoped to establish herself in a position of power above all others. Though she claims to have been established by Christ, through the first Pope Peter, she was really established through the power of the kings of this earth. It was these with whom she committed spiritual adultery, and fornication. Let’s look at some more historical facts confirming these truths found in the book The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“The Catholic Church demanded assistance in her ambitious aim to make her power and authority absolute over all; and for Constantine’s purposes it was essential that the church should be a unit. These two considerations combined to produce results both immediate and remote, that proved a curse to the time then present and to ages to follow. The immediate result was that Constantine had no sooner compassed the destruction of Licinius in A.D. 323, than he issued an edict against the Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, Cataphrygians, and “all who devised and supported heresies by means of private assemblies,” denouncing them and their heresies, and commanding them all to enter the Catholic Church. The edict runs as follows: —[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus, to the heretics: Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in league with destruction: All your counsels are opposed to the truth,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]but familiar with deeds of baseness; fit subjects for the fabulous follies of the stage: and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with defilement: ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And indeed it is well to turn one’s ears and eyes from such a subject, lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and freshness of one’s own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure? “Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion, take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church, and uniting with it in holy fellowship, whereby you will be enabled to arrive at the knowledge of the truth. In any case, the delusions of your perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with and mar the felicity of our present times; I mean the impious and wretched doublemindedness of heretics and schismatics. For it is an object worthy of that prosperity which we enjoy through the favor of God, to endeavor to bring back those who in time past were living in the hope of future blessing, from all irregularity and error, to the right path, from darkness to light, from vanity to truth, from death to salvation. And in order that this remedy may be applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said), that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be worthy of the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]name) which belong to heretics, and that these be made over without delay to the Catholic Church; that any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility whatever be left for any future gathering; in order that from this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] ( [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Eusebius’s- “Life of Constantine,” book 3, chaps. 64, 65. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Some of the penal regulations of this edict “were copied from the edicts of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights of humanity.” ( Gibbon- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“Decline and Fall,” chap. 21, par. 1. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]As is obvious from the above edict, the establishment of the Church of Rome had nothing to do with the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To the contrary, she was established through the power of the state, not the power of the Holy Spirit. The emperor that established her power did so for purely political reasons, the establishment of his authority above all civil, or religious entities of the day. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] As the emperor of Rome, Constantine was already the head of all the pagan religions of that empire, and was himself a devout worshipper of the sun. His supposed conversion to Christianity was nothing more than a political ploy to be the head of this new religion also. Thus his purpose was, as already stated, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." This settled uniformity was to be under his authority, and complete control. Therefore, the establishment of the Church of Rome was brought about by the selfish motives of a pagan emperor who would embrace Christianity as a means of obtaining his goal. Not to mention the selfish motives and ambitions of apostate Christians who were themselves seeking the power, and prestige of this world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Apostate Christianity, having entered the stage of the politics of this world, has never ceased to be entangled in the same. She is ever entrenched in the political strife, struggles for supremacy, and unquenchable thirst for power of the same. The Church of Rome is the Mother of all supposed Christian institutions which have become more concerned with the politics of this world, and its struggles for power, than the fulfilling of the gospel commission. “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” ( Matt. 24:14 )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The following are more historical quotes, and facts regarding the establishment, or re-establishment of the Church of Rome’s authority. As a political entity of this world, her authority, and influence have continually, and are continually being challenged by others of the same. The history of her political struggles, and alliances with the kings of this earth, are sufficient proof that she is the Mother Of Harlots, who commits fornication with the kings of the earth. Thus, this identifying mark is fulfilled in her history. Of the many books that could be studied, for a more detailed history of her politics, the following are recommended by the writer. The Great Empires of Prophecy, and The Two Republics, both written by Alonzo Jones.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Gratian was but the tool of the bishops. Ambrose was at that time bishop of Milan, and never was episcopal ambition more arrogantly asserted than in that insolent prelate. Soon the mind of the bishop asserted the supremacy over that of the boy emperor, and Ambrose “wielded at his will the weak and irresolute Gratian.” ( Milman- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 8, par. 28. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But above all things else that Gratian did, that which redounded most to the glory of the Catholic Church was his choice of Theodosius as associate emperor. Valens was killed in a battle with the Goths, A.D. 378. A stronger hand than that of a youth of nineteen was required to hold the reins of government in the East. In the establishment of the Catholic Church, the place of Theodosius is second only to that of Constantine. About the beginning of the year 380 he was baptized by the Catholic bishop of Thessalonica, and immediately afterward he issued the following edict: —[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“It is our pleasure that the nations which are governed by our clemency and moderation, should steadfastly adhere to the religion which was taught by St. Peter to the Romans, which faithful tradition has preserved, and which is now professed by the pontiff Damasus, and by Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the discipline of the apostles, and the doctrine of the gospel, let us believe the sole deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: under an equal majesty, and a pious Trinity. We authorize the followers of this doctrine to assume the title of Catholic Christians; and as we judge that all others are extravagant madmen, we brand them with the infamous name of “heretics,” and declare that their conventicles shall no longer usurp the respectable appellation of churches. Besides the condemnation of divine justice, they must expect to suffer the severe penalties which our authority, guided by heavenly wisdom, shall think proper[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]to inflict upon them.”[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] ( [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall,” chap. 27, par. 6. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]This law was issued in the names of the three emperors, Gratian, Valentinian II, and Theodosius. “Thus the religion of the whole Roman world was enacted by two feeble boys and a rude Spanish soldier.” ( Milman- [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 9, par. 1. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In the supremacy of the papacy, Justinian holds the same place as does Constantine and Theodosius in the establishment of the Catholic Church. “Among the titles of greatness, the name ‘Pious’ was most pleasing to his ears; to promote the temporal and spiritual interests of the church was the serious business of his life; and the duty of father of his country was often[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]sacrificed to that of defender of the faith.” ( Gibbon - “Decline and Fall,” chap. xlvii, par. 23. )[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]“The emperor Justinian unites in himself the most opposite vices, — insatiable rapacity and lavish prodigality, intense pride and contemptible weakness, unmeasured ambition and dastardly cowardice.... In the Christian emperor, seem to meet the crimes of those who won or secured their empire by assassination of all whom they feared, the passion for public diversions without the accomplishments of Nero or the brute strength of Commodus,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]the dotage of Claudius.” ( Milman - [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of Latin Christianity,” book 3, chap. 4, par. 2. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]In the year 532, Justinian issued an edict declaring his intention “to unite all men in one faith.” Whether they were Jews, Gentiles, or Christians, all who did not within three months profess and embrace the Catholic faith, were by the edict “declared infamous, and as such excluded from all employments both civil and military; rendered incapable of leaving anything by will; and all their estates confiscated, whether real or personal.” As a result of this cruel edict, “Great numbers were driven from their habitations with their wives and children, stripped and naked. Others betook themselves to flight, carrying with them what they could conceal, for their[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]support and maintenance; but they were plundered of what little they had, and many of them inhumanly massacred.” ( Bower - [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“History of the Popes,” Boniface 2, par. 2. )[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]THE CODE OF OUR LORD
THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN.
[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]SECOND EDITION. [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=12pt]BOOK 1. [/SIZE]​

[SIZE=12pt]TITLE 1. [/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE
CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE
SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM.
[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] 1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Dated at Thessalonica, on the third of the Kalends of March, during the Consulate of Gratian, Consul for the fifth time, and Theodosius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 2. The Same Emperors to Eutropius, Praetorian Prefect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Let no place be afforded to heretics for the conduct of their ceremonies, and let no occasion be offered for them to display the insanity of their obstinate minds. Let all persons know that if any privilege has been fraudulently obtained by means of any rescript whatsoever, by persons of this kind, it will not be valid. Let all bodies of heretics be prevented from holding unlawful assemblies, and let the name of the only and the greatest God be celebrated everywhere, and let the observance of the Nicene Creed, recently transmitted to Our ancestors, and firmly established by the testimony and practice of Divine Religion, always remain secure. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (1) Moreover, he who is an adherent of the Nicene Faith, and a true believer in the Catholic religion, should be understood to be one [pg. 10] who believes that Almighty God and Christ, the son of God, are one person, God of God, Light of Light; and let no one, by rejection, dishonor the Holy Spirit, whom we expect, and have received from the Supreme Parent of all things, in whom the sentiment of a pure and undefiled faith flourishes, as well as the belief in the undivided substance of a Holy Trinity, which true believers indicate by the Greek word [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]These things, indeed do not require further proof, and should be respected. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] (2) Let those who do not accept those doctrines cease to apply the name of true religion to their fraudulent belief; and let them be branded with their open crimes, and, having been removed from the threshhold of all churches, be utterly excluded from them, as We forbid all heretics to hold unlawful assemblies within cities. If, however, any seditious outbreak should be attempted, We order them to be driven outside the the walls of the City, with relentless violence, and We direct that all Catholic Churches, throughout the entire world, shall be placed under the control of the orthodox bishops who have embraced the Nicene Creed. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Given at Constantinople, on the fourth of the ides of January, under the Consulate of Flavius Eucharius and Flavius Syagrius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 3. The Emperor Martian to Palladius, Praetorian Prefect. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] No one, whether he belongs to the clergy, the army, or to any other condition of men, shall, with a view to causing a tumult and giving occasion to treachery, attempt to discuss the Christian religion publicly in the presence of an assembled and listening crowd; for he commits an injury against the most reverend Synod who publicly contradicts what has once been decided and properly established; as those matters relative to the Christian faith have been settled by the priests who met at Chalcedony by Our order, and are known to be in conformity with the apostolic explanations and conclusions of the three hundred and eight Holy Fathers assembled in Nicea, and the hundred and fifty who met in this Imperial City; for the violators of this law shall not go unpunished, because they not only oppose the true faith, but they also profane its venerated mysteries by engaging in contests of this kind with Jews and Pagans. Therefore, if any person who has ventured to publicly discuss religious matters is a member of the clergy, he shall be removed from his order; if he is a member of the army, he shall be degraded; and any others who are guilty of this offence, who are freemen, shall be banished from this most Sacred City, and shall be subjected to the punishment prescribed by law according to the power of the court; and if they are slaves, they shall undergo severest penalty. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Given at Constantinople, on the eighth of the Ides of February, under the consulship of Patricius. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 4. John, Bishop of the City of Rome, to his most Illustrious and Merciful Son Justinian. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Among the conspicuous reasons for praising your wisdom and gentleness, Most Christian of Emperors, and one which radiates light [pg. 11]as a star, is the fact that through love of the Faith, and actuated by zeal for charity, you, learned in ecclesiastical discipline, have preserved reverence for the See of Rome, and have subjected all things to its authority, and have given it unity. The following precept was communicated to its founder, that is to say, the first of the Apostles, by the mouth of the Lord, namely: "Feed my lambs." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] This See is indeed the head of all churches, as the rules of the Fathers and the decrees of the Emperors assert, and the words of your most reverend piety testify. It is therefore claimed that what the Scriptures state, namely, "By Me Kings reign, and the Powers dispense justice;" will be accomplished in you. For there is nothing which shines with a more brilliant lustre than genuine faith when displayed by a prince, since there is nothing which prevents destruction as true religion does, for as both of them have reference to the Author of Life and Light, they disperse darkness and prevent apostasy. Wherefore, Most Glorious of Princes, the Divine Power is implored by the prayers of all to preserve your piety in this ardor for the Faith, in this devotion of your mind, and in this zeal for true religion, without failure, during your entire existence. For we believe that this is for the benefit of the Holy Churches, as it was written, "The king rules with his lips," and again, "The heart of the King is in the hand of God, and it will incline to whatever side God wishes"; that is to say, that He may confirm your empire, and maintain your kingdoms for the peace of the Church and the unity of religion; guard their authority, and preserve him in that sublime tranquillity which is so grateful to him; and no small change is granted by the Divine Power through whose agency a divided church is not afflicted by any griefs or subject to any reproaches. For it is written, "A just king, who is upon his throne, has no reason to apprehend any misfortune." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] We have received with all due respect the evidences of your serenity, through Hypatius and Demetrius, most holy men, my brothers and fellow-bishops, from whose statements we have learned that you have promulgated an Edict addressed to your faithful people, and dictated by your love of the Faith, for the purpose of overthrowing the designs of heretics, which is in accordance with the evangelical tenets, and which we have confirmed by our authority with the consent of our brethren and fellow bishops, for the reason that it is in conformity with the apostolic doctrine. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt] The following is the text of the letter of the Emperor Justinian, Victorious, Pious, Happy, Renowned, Triumphant, always Augustus, to John, Patriarch, and most Holy Archbishop of the fair City of Rome: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] With honor to the Apostolic See, and to your Holiness, which is, and always has been remembered in Our prayers, both now and formerly, and honoring your happiness, as is proper in the case of one who is considered as a father, We hasten to bring to the knowledge of Your Holiness everything relating to the condition of the Church, as We have always had the greatest desire to preserve the unity of your Apostolic See, and the condition of the Holy Churches of God, as they [pg. 12] exist at the present time, that they may remain without disturbance or opposition. Therefore, We have exerted Ourselves to unite all the priests of the East and subject them to the See of Your Holiness, and hence the questions which have at present arisen, although they are manifest and free from doubt, and according to the doctrines of your Apostolic See, are constantly firmly observed and preached by all priests, We have still considered it necessary that they should be brought to the attention of Your Holiness. For we do not suffer anything which has reference to the state of the Church, even though what causes difficulty may be clear and free from doubt, to be discussed without being brought to the notice of Your Holiness, because you are the head of all the Holy Churches, for We shall exert Ourselves in every way (as has already been stated), to increase the honor and authority of your See. [/SIZE]




[SIZE=12pt]One Hundred and Thirty-First New Constitution.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]The Emperor Justinian to Peter, Most Glorious Imperial Praetorian Prefect.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt]PREFACE.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] We enact the present law with reference to ecclesiastical rules and privileges and other subjects in which holy churches and religious establishments are intrusted. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Chapter I.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] Concerning Four Holy Councils. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Therefore We order that the sacred, ecclesiastical rules which were adopted and confirmed by the four Holy Councils, that is to say, that of the three hundred and eighteen bishops held at Nicea, that of the one hundred and fifty bishops held at Constantinople, the first one of Ephesus, where Nestorius was condemned, and the one assembled at Chalcedon, where Eutyches and Nestorius were anathematized, shall be considered as laws. We accept the dogmas of these four Councils as sacred writings, and observe their rules as legally effective. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Chapter II.[/SIZE]​
[SIZE=12pt] Concerning The Precedence of Partriarchs. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Hence, in accordance with the provisions of these Councils, We order that the Most Holy Pope of ancient Rome shall hold the first rank of all the Pontiffs, but the Most Blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, or New Rome, shall occupy the second place after the Holy Apostolic See of ancient Rome, which shall take precedence over all other sees. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Source: Corpus Juris Civilis (The Civil Law, the Code of Justinian), by S.P. Scott, A.M., published by the Central Trust Company, Cincinnati, copyright 1932, Volume 12 [of 17], pages 9-12, 125.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt] The Church of Rome presently entertains diplomatic relations with over 170 nations of this earth. She has been, she is, and she ever will be, a political entity of this world. This is why she ever pursues greater power and influence in the same. She does not believe in the separation of church and state. Her rise to power within this country, is in conjunction with the crumbling of the wall which separates the two. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The annals of history testify, that there is no true freedom without a separation of church and state. Maintaining freedom for our future, depends upon remembering the lessons of our past. The following quote is from the late Pope John Paul’s, APOSTOLIC LETTER, DIES DOMINI. This is no doubt, one law that the Church of Rome will work on passing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]It was through Sunday legislation that she usurped the power of the state in the past, and she will no doubt use the same proven method in the near future.[/SIZE]
<<[SIZE=12pt]The writer contends that the great city we are discussing is none other than Rome, and the harlot, is none other than the Church of Rome. >>[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Wrong.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There was no "Church of Rome" when Revelation was written.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]You really need to find a better hobby than developing your hatred for the Body of Christ[/SIZE] in the RCC.

Instead of studying all that crap, why not meditate on a verse or two written expressly or you and your brothers in hatred.

1Jo 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

1Jo 4:20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

Do you love me?

And since you attack the RCC as if it were your enemy, here's what Jesus said to do:

Mat 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies
Luk 6:27 But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies,
Luk 6:35 But love your enemies,

A good way to start is; whenever you feel a urge to tell the world what's wrong with them damn KATH-licks, just shut up. Instead of practicing your ungodly hatred, go watch Sponge Bob and chill out.
 

aspen

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The only worse than scrolling through miles and miles of meaningless cut and paste posts is having to do it again when a person answers the post and quotes the cut and paste....mercy
 
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Born_Again

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aspen said:
The only worse than scrolling through miles and miles of meaningless cut and paste posts is having to do it again when a person answers the post and quotes the cut and paste....mercy
I was thinking the same thing before I read your post, Aspen.
 

JimParker

Active Member
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I started this thread with:

Could someone please explain why, in every Christian forum, there are always two or three people
who are obsessed with (indeed possessed by) a need to attack the Roman Catholic Church and to
demonize the head of that church, the pope.

No body answered the question.

But the usual suspects did take the opportunity to rail against the fundamentalists favorite "ni###rs," them damn KATH-licks and their damn anti-Christ pope.

So religious bigotry is alive and well in this "Christian" forum where you can't say a Mormon or a JW isn't really Christian (we wouldn't want to offend them) but you can say anything nasty thing you want about members of the Body of Christ in the Catholic Church.

Onward Christian soldiers! :(
 

pom2014

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JimParker said:
I started this thread with:

Could someone please explain why, in every Christian forum, there are always two or three people
who are obsessed with (indeed possessed by) a need to attack the Roman Catholic Church and to
demonize the head of that church, the pope.

No body answered the question.

But the usual suspects did take the opportunity to rail against the fundamentalists favorite "ni###rs," them damn KATH-licks and their damn anti-Christ pope.

So religious bigotry is alive and well in this "Christian" forum where you can't say a Mormon or a JW isn't really Christian (we wouldn't want to offend them) but you can say anything nasty thing you want about members of the Body of Christ in the Catholic Church.

Onward Christian soldiers! :(
Why do they attack the roman catholics?

Because that is what protestants do.

They have been told by pastor after pastor that the RC is evil incarnate. All the while they ignore the evil they caused on catholics, anabaptists and all manner of people that didn't tow the protestant line.

The worst thing is both sides are heretics to God.
 

HammerStone

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So religious bigotry is alive and well in this "Christian" forum where you can't say a Mormon or a JW isn't really Christian (we wouldn't want to offend them) but you can say anything nasty thing you want about members of the Body of Christ in the Catholic Church.
Entirely untrue. I really wish you'd stop hanging an entire community because you cannot get exactly what you want out of a loaded question. We've made clear provision for our Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brethren on the boards here, specifically in our Statement of Faith, realizing that we have some pretty divergent viewpoints. The majority of the members here do not hold this position, but trying to draw them out in this manner is flawed to support your own position. Coming to a place and chastising a duck for being a duck is an activity where time is probably better else spent.

Expecting a Protestant board to exclude such commentary is rather pie-in-the-sky. I am all for reasonable ecumenism, but I also deal in reality.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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I agree....a as I posted before....... I had negative feeling towards Catholicism before I joined the church and that has given insight and understanding about where people are coming from - there is a lot of misinformation out there. Also, many people on this site have become a community to me
 

Axehead

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JimParker said:
<<[SIZE=12pt]The writer contends that the great city we are discussing is none other than Rome, and the harlot, is none other than the Church of Rome. >>[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Wrong.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There was no "Church of Rome" when Revelation was written.[/SIZE]
Just to make an observation about Scripture. Many times Scripture talks about things that did not happen at the time a particular passage or book was written. That is why the Word of God is "prophetic". The Holy Spirit sees the future.
 

Axehead

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JimParker said:
I started this thread with:

Could someone please explain why, in every Christian forum, there are always two or three people who are obsessed with (indeed possessed by) a need to attack the Roman Catholic Church and to demonize the head of that church, the pope.

No body answered the question.

But the usual suspects did take the opportunity to rail against the fundamentalists favorite "ni###rs," them damn KATH-licks and their damn anti-Christ pope.

So religious bigotry is alive and well in this "Christian" forum where you can't say a Mormon or a JW isn't really Christian (we wouldn't want to offend them) but you can say anything nasty thing you want about members of the Body of Christ in the Catholic Church.

Onward Christian soldiers! :(
Jim, do you really think everyone is so obtuse to not notice you are attacking, also in a backhanded sort of way? Don't you see it? Why not concentrate on Christ and not "two or three people". There are also "two or three" people that disagree with doctrines of other "christian" religions, including two or three RCC representatives that attack varying protestant religions. Most people are aware of who is who, here if they stay here long enough. Looks like the RCC reps have one more here, now. That's ok and please don't be afraid to admit it.

A Christian forum is a public "street corner" on the Internet highway. Believers and Non-believers are on this street corner and no one knows who is who, but on a public street corner everyone has the right to voice their opinions and beliefs and not be banned (until they start attacking people). Now, whose speech do we want to shut down first? And, if you cannot shut down someone's speech why slander and defame them (then you start to attack them)? Everyone should focus on the topic and not the person. When someone disagrees with Catholic or Protestant doctrine, it should not be twisted to say they are attacking Catholics or Protestants. Unfortunately, that is what is often said and then the topic of debate is lost. That is the stance that extremist Islam takes. And they want to shut down free speech by imposing their "Sharia" law by intimidating people. It would be good if everyone did not impose their brand of "Sharia" law, here.

The reason that people often cannot be polite while discussing religious issues is because they have idols in their hearts regarding their religion. People should ask themselves what that thing is that is rising up out of their heart when people disagree with them. If we truly love the Lord and are dead to this world, then nothing anyone says, even about our beliefs and our Lord will cause us to lash back out at them.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Jim, is it important for you to feel like other Christians hate Catholics? You seem to have started this thread with that premise and when it really didn't get much of a response you sort of summed it up for everyone here - as if your initial thoughts were confirmed. I do not me to be harsh, but this site really doesn't support snticatholic rhetoric.... None of the admin hate Catholics and it sets the tone for the board. Every other conservative protestant board I be posted on has allowed open hostility towards me because I am Catholic - that is just not the situation here