Keeth said:
and not only that but as Christians we are beholden to believe and accept what Jesus Christ said and believed and accepted re creation, young earth etc - winc
Old Earth
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and not only that but as Christians we are beholden to believe and accept what Jesus Christ said and believed and accepted re creation, young earth etc - winc
Because we have a soul and God has told us. I mean, how do you know you're a sinner?Keeth said:
God directly revealed to us what His expectations are.
God breathing a soul into us was not a gradual thing. It was an event.
When humans had developed full consciousness, God breathed into them a soul and revealed what His expectations are. From that point forward, we have been accountable and since we always miss the mark, we are in need of redemption through the blood of Christ.
River Jordan said:
We don't have souls, we are living souls. Even animals have souls. No soul equals no life. We are living souls and always have been, according to scripture.
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
I know I am sinner because God's word reveals this truth, and the details of what sin actually is. Where in scripture do you think God has told us, and why do you accept this revelation as literally meaning just what it says, as opposed to the creation account which you do not believe means what it literally says? How do you differentiate?
Yes He did. Can you show us where He did so in scripture, and again, why you accept that such means literally what it says as opposed to the creation account?
Again, God did not breathe a soul into us. He breathed the breath of life into us, and then we became living souls. When the breath ceases, so does the living soul. When exactly do you beleive your event above took place? Why do you think God could not have shared this truth with us in His word? What you are suggesting is certainly not above or beyond our comprehension in any way shape or form. It would have been a very easy thing for God to describe our slow developement according to His plan if it were such, rather than have countless millions throughout history believe a false vision of a creation which never took place. Which false account, as you beleive and freely admit, has prevented all the same from seeing and understanding the truth which youi have arrived at. Is this not intentional deception? Is God in the deception buisness?
You understand of course that the above is found nowhere in scripture. That which you have clearly stated, and is easily understood in a staement consisting of only two sentences, is not so complicated that God could not have easily revealed the same in His word. He did not, and if what you say is true, then God Himself founded and supported deception upon countless millions for thousands of years. Not just one time in the creation account, but continually through the various inspired authors of the bible. Yoiu have produced an account found nowhere in scripture, and contradicting the testimony of one inspired author of scripture after another. Does this not bother you?
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. 12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. 14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
Jer 51:15 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by his understanding. 16 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. 17 Every man is brutish by his knowledge; every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 18 They are vanity, the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
Apparently, the above truth was important enough to repeat.
[SIZE=12pt]Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.[/SIZE]
Do you lack the faith described above? It seems so. If not, please do expound. Oh, and once again, God did not give or breathe into us a soul. We are living souls.
Gen 2:7 uses the Hebrew word nephesh, which in context connotes a HUMAN BEING. The difference between Gen 1:20-25 and 2:7 is that God breathed into Adam A soul, which is NOT what He did in creating all other life. That soul is part of our tripartite nature...how we are created in the IMAGE of God, who is also tripartite. The word SOUL is not used in modern accurate translations. Pro-creation insures we all have that soul in us when we are born, and are not just animated by life as animals are.Keeth said:
05315 ??? nephesh neh’- feshStanJ said:
from 05314; n f; [BDB-659a] {See TWOT on 1395 @@ "1395a"}
AV-soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47; 753
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
Nephesh is the living soul which man became after God breathed the breath of life into him, not what God breathed into him. God did not breathe a soul into us, we became living souls after He breathed the breath of life into us. The following is what He breathed into us, which made us a living soul.
05397 ???? nᵉshamah nesh-aw-maw’
from 05395; n f; [BDB-675b] {See TWOT on 1433 @@ "1433a"}
AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)
The body plus the breath or spirit from God make a living soul. It is the spirit which God breathed into us that separates us from the rest of creation.
In context, it is the living or human being God created. Unless of course you believe our soul can die? If that is the case then this is another issue all together. You may want to use a modern English translation of the Bible if you really don't know what the Hebrew or Greek conveys?Keeth said:
Copying and pasting without understanding doesn't really help your case, as you show many connotations but just singularly stick to your own POV.
What do you think Ezek 18:20 is telling us? That our soul dies because of sin or our body dies?
As our soul never dies, calling it a living soul is redundant at best. In the context of God's word, we are living human beings, not living souls.
Heb 4:12 is pretty clear as to our components.
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
The problem isn't as simple as you make it out to be. The issue isn't necessarily the age of the earth in itself, but all of the garbage tacked onto the old earth belief by its proponents. If the earth is old, then this allows evolutionists to make up anti-Biblical just-so fairy tales about the very history of the earth and how all living creatures came to be. It allows Satan's disciples to claim that by death came man as evolution teaches, instead of death entering into the world by the sin of one man as the Bible teaches. However, if the earth is no more than a few thousand years old or far younger than claimed, as the mountain of evidence strongly suggests, then this in itself will deal a fatal blow to the evolutionist since there won't be enough time for evolution by common descent to occur as per the totally made up "geological timescale".pom2014 said:
Yea, I know Stan, never mind the details or weight of scriptural evidence contradictng what you say, just listen to your superior self. No thanks. Souls can and do die.StanJ said:
[SIZE=12pt]Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]05397 [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]hmvn[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]from [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]05395[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]; n f; {[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]}[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1) breath, spirit[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1a) breath (of God)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1b) breath (of man)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1c) every breathing thing[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]1d) spirit (of man)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Eccl 12:5..….. because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy
5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is it’s end. When life ends, it ends.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again, the soul is identified with the person. If the person lives, the soul lives. If the person dies, the soul dies. A soul is a living person with a body combined with the breath, or spirit from God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Matt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.[/SIZE]
Evidently you don't know Keeth, which is why you keep getting refuted and rebuked. Not recognizing truth is always the issue with false teachers of your ilk.Keeth said:
Souls cannot die, as you have been shown countless times, only bodies die and only those that insist on equivocating and vacillating about the word SOUL have a problem with that.
ψυχή (psychē)
Strong: G5590
GK: G6034
breath; the principle of animal life; the life, Mt. 2:20; 6:25; Mk. 3:4; Lk. 21:19; Jn. 10:11; an inanimate being, 1 Cor. 15:45; a human individual, soul, Acts 2:41; 3:23; 7:14; 27:37; Rom. 13:1; 1 Pet. 3:20; the immaterial soul, Mt. 10:28; 1 Pet. 1:9; 2:11, 25; 4:19; the soul as the seat of religious and moral sentiment, Mt. 11:29; Acts 14:2, 22; 15:24; Eph. 6:6; the soul, as a seat of feeling, Mt. 12:18; 26:38; the soul, the inner self, Lk. 12:19
Regrettably you hide within the ambivalence of the KJV and play word games instead of actually learning what the Bible properly connotes.
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.
Based on the last scripture that Luke writes in Hebrews, you have NOT moved FORWARD to MATURITY.
Are you saying that God is surrounded by a pile of dead souls in Heaven??? How does Jesus pass judgment on dead souls??? Why would He read out the names in the Book of Life to a bunch of dead souls?Keeth said:
Angels are eternal, but we are not? That makes no sense.
What's the purpose of salvation if we will not be alive when we leave this earth? Isn't that the purpose of salvation? To be with God and to worship Him for eternity?
The word "soul" has more than one meaning in the Bible. Someone has already provided the many definitions of Soul found in the Bible. Even today, in modern usage, it has more than one meaning. Soul can mean the core character of a person, the physical body of a person, or it can mean the spirit of a person. "He's a soulful gentlemen" "Not a soul came to my party" "Bless your soul!"
Another word is used in a similar fashion throughout the Bible: "Heart" Loving God with all your heart is a figure of speech, is it not? Isn't heart referring to the core being (soul) of a person?
Proverbs 4:23 says that heart is the source of life.
In Matthew 5:8, Jesus called our spirit the heart.
Some of the scriptures you used to prove your point are actually talking about the physical body of a person (1 Corinthians 15:53) In Heaven, we are given a new eternal body that will not decay.
I am only refuted and rebuked in the minds of those who have rejected the truth and maintain Satan's first lie to humanity.StanJ said:
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The term immortal soul exists nowhere in scripture. To the contrary I have provided ample evidence that souls die, all of which you reject in favor of a theory which contradicts conclusive statements of scripture. Never mind making the scripotures work together, those who choose and love deception care not if they make God's word constantly condratdict itself.
1 Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Yet here you are saying every single human being has an immortal soul. A doctrine of devils to be sure. Immortality is the gift of God to the saved. Nothing in and of humanity is immortal at all, save it is attached to Him alone who hath immortality. The bible clearly states when we will recieve it, but you reject this also unto your own hurt.
1 Cor 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Those who choose to believe lies will be decieved by them. Countless millions of professed "Christians" already are. Believing as you do and promote they pray to the dead and are answered by the same. This deception will only increase as the end approaches and more continue to reject the plain truth.
2 Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Those who persistently reject the truth are left to their deception and even given over to strong delusion by God Himself by their own choice. Countless millions of "Christians" communicate with the dead today, and these numbers will only continue to grow as the first lie of Satan is promolgated through false teachers unto destruction.
Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. 8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Go to. Falsely accuse, twist and manipulate scripture, and deny the validity of what I have shared. Make the Holy scriptures of none effect by denying the above and making them contradict themsleves, or else please do explain how they do not mean what so apparently seem to say. The gospel is quite simple really. It is only when we reject truth that it becomes more complicated.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
It doesn't get much simpler than that, and yet the testimony of scripture does get even simpler.
1 Joh 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
What you are describing in Revelation is after the resurrections, at which time there will be no dead souls. The bible does not speak of the dead as asleep over fifty times for no reason. Christ Himself referred tot he dead as asleep before He raised two of them. As I have already shared in the last post, we recieve immortality at the second coming and resurrection, not before. If we recieved it before, there would be no need of the resurrection. Angels are not eternal in and of themselves, but only as they are connected to Him alone who hath immortality. The fallen angels no longer have immortality, and Satan HImself will cease to exist.DogLady19 said:
Ez 28:11 ¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
OK, so a dead soul sleeps??? No, the body dies, not the soul.Keeth said:
Ez 28:19 means "you will not be a terror any more" not "you will never BE any more"
Satan, like any other angel, is an eternal being.
Revelation 20:10 says that Satan and his angels will be tormented in hell for eternity, along with all the false prophets and the beast, which are people, which are also eternal beings.
The dead are in a state similar to sleep. Thus they are referred to as asleep many times over. A dead soul is a dead person, because a person is a living soul until they die.DogLady19 said:
That's what all people who preach false teaching say.Keeth said:
Neither does Trinity, so do you not believe in the Triune nature of God?
Not me, God says. That you have been deceived by this dogma is of little doubt.
Spoken like a true cultist...are you JW?
More of the same condemnation....typically cultish.
Of course we deny the validity of what you try to teach, because it is false and has been refuted all over Christendom. You use one verse to support on side of your argument and then the same verse to support the other side. You fail to understand common terms, or deliberately evade them to force your dogma on others then when you get cornered you condemn. You do more condemning than the Bible does.
How would you know? You never show properly exegeted scripture and deny all that is shown to you, as you've done with all posts refuting your false teaching.
You are wrong on Gen 2:7 Stan. Yes, it is talking about humans. No, it has nothing to do with our spirit / special soul.StanJ said:
''Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being / soul'' = Just like every other animal.
Yes we are body, spirit and soul... there is other scripture to support that like 1 Thess 5:23. Gen 2:7 does not.
TE's '''need'' to believe there is a scripture that points to God breathing a spirit into MONKEY MAN :lol:. I would imagine their entire belief rests on it.
All we need to do is read it as is. Not add what is not there.
Well obviously this has generated its own conversation, so I'll just leave you to that.Keeth said:
Then we agree.
Sorry, I'm not taking your little test here. Nice try though.
It would have been very easy for God to describe plate tectonics and temperature gradients too, but instead scripture merely says God created the mountains and the winds. Maybe that's because God's point was more about faith and His creative power than explaining the scientific details behind creation.
The accounts aren't false. Christians have a very long history of misinterpreting scriptures, sometimes even deliberately. You need to step out of your black/white mode of thinking.
So? Neither are plate tectonics and temperature gradients, yet when God says he creates mountains and wind, we don't immediately start to question them. Again, you seem to have this view of scripture where the point was for God to tell us the science behind creation.
Again, drop the black/white mode of thinking.
And there it is. Fundamentalists sure are amazing creatures...anyone who disagrees with them, must be lacking in faith.
And now you know why I don't bother discussing my faith here.
Your responses seem pretty good, when the scriptures I asked you to address are removed, and it appears you ae just addressing me. I see you have no desire to add any depth of explanation to your faith. So be it.River Jordan said:Well obviously this has generated its own conversation, so I'll just leave you to that.
Then we agree.
Sorry, I'm not taking your little test here. Nice try though.
It would have been very easy for God to describe plate tectonics and temperature gradients too, but instead scripture merely says God created the mountains and the winds. Maybe that's because God's point was more about faith and His creative power than explaining the scientific details behind creation.
The accounts aren't false. Christians have a very long history of misinterpreting scriptures, sometimes even deliberately. You need to step out of your black/white mode of thinking.
So? Neither are plate tectonics and temperature gradients, yet when God says he creates mountains and wind, we don't immediately start to question them. Again, you seem to have this view of scripture where the point was for God to tell us the science behind creation.
Again, drop the black/white mode of thinking.
And there it is. Fundamentalists sure are amazing creatures...anyone who disagrees with them, must be lacking in faith.
And now you know why I don't bother discussing my faith here.
So isn't that what the serpent told Adam, surely yea shall not die but be as Gods knowning good from evil.
I know, I have been repeatedly told that her name wasn't Adam because it is written in your Bible, Genesis 5:2 God called their names Adam and Eve.
Well, I didn't learn her name wasn't named Eve from the Bible so that proves I am a liar because as written in Rom 3:4 " yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVxsYzXI_Y
Not surprised you don't see it, but God didn't breath into ANY other life form, only man. No other life form is made in God's image, just man.KingJ said:
God is triune, and so is man. Animals and all other life forms are not. If you want to equate yourself with monkeys then go ahead but I for one am far above a monkey.
I do agree with you, we just need to read it...so please do so then get back to me with some actual understanding.
The serpent told EVE;Forsakenone said:
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
You obviously don't know what Paul was talking about in Romans 3, so I'll tell you. He was talking about God's faithfulness and righteousness and how we can only have that through and by Jesus.
You can find it below in MODERN English as you don't seem to be able to properly handle the King James English.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+3&version=NIV
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