On being a Saint

[Episkopos]

Saints are chosen of God and never chosen of themselves.

I agree. The election of grace is given by God to they whom He qualifies (for reasons known only to Him) to run the race of faith. Saints are chosen by God to be perfected in Christ. So this part of God's plan looks like Calvinism. But holiness is the light of this world and many others will come to trust in Jesus Christ through them...these are the righteous who walk in the heat given off by the flame of holiness. This part looks like Arminianism.

Epi, if you are a saint and what I read over these months, it indicates to me that it is the case, and you choose and chose to do the work and will of God. Then believe me God knew this already, because you have a heart that is willing to use his spirit he gave you, to truly change your life into the image of Christ. He knew your heart and that its will would choose Christ every time over any human spirit, pleasure, false comfort or security or enticing worldly vise. You walk you cross alone (cannot do it any other way) in faith and hope, to the end.

i have the calling of a saint....but I claim nothing for myself. I know I will be judged by a high standard. I have been given much revelation. So I press forward to the full stature of Christ in both purity and maturity without regard to how much I have done or not. I feel particularly drawn to the truth of the loneliness of the saint...that being my experience of not fitting in with religious people....or the world.

Peace brother

 

[CoreIssue]

="Episkopos, post: 548055, member: 3944"]I also believe so...hence the purpose of this thread. It is the reaction against this subject that would suggest that the time of saints is past.

More Gnostic nonsense.

 

[CoreIssue]

I agree. The election of grace is given by God to they whom He qualifies (for reasons known only to Him) to run the race of faith. saints are chosen by God to be perfected in Christ. So this part of God's plan looks like Calvinism. But holiness is the light of this world and many others will come to trust in Jesus Christ through them...these are the righteous who walk in the heat given off by the flame of holiness. This part looks like Arminianism.



i have the calling of a saint....but I claim nothing for myself. I know I will be judged by a high standard. I have been given much revelation. So I press forward to the full stature of Christ in both purity and maturity without regard to how much I have done or not. I feel particularly drawn to the truth of the loneliness of the saint...that being my experience of not fitting in with religious people....or the world.

Peace brother

You are an egotistical Gnostic.

 

[Nancy]

In the NT Paul describes the 'as yet carnal' believers as a distinction to the ones who are "spiritual."

1 Cor. 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one.

Gal. 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The spiritual ones are meant to help, encourage and be an example to they who are "yet carnal."

1 Cor. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

(Just look at all the carnality on this board...and watch for they who protest on this thread)

This distinction between walking in the power of the flesh (while appearing to be godly) as any man does and walking in the same power that Jesus walked in is not understood in the modern church because of the lack of saints... Even if there are some that come forward, they are rejected as they don't fit in with the human agendas that the modern religious system has established for themselves. The phenomenon is that the carnal have taken over the modern church. As such they keep the Holy Spirit at bay. The church has shed it's holy origins and adopted a man-made tradition...just as in the days of Jesus among the religious leaders of that time.

So there should be no surprise there.

The kingdom of God remains a revolutionary concept that is little understood and resisted by ignorance even among they who think to proclaim it. They that resist the saints and the Holy Spirit do so thinking they are doing God a service.

It has always been this way.

Good stuff Epi. I hope you will make this a sermon! This has also brought me hope and encouragement as, I find it very difficult to find "true" fellowship, always thought it was just something about me that was odd, different, or less than others?
I also have peace even though I am single and celibate and will remain so for the rest of my days as, God's grace is more than sufficient for me. I depend only on Him for every breath I take, every need I have and, He has never failed me.
"Churches" can be the loneliest of places and can hurt you like no other. Thank God - He is faithful ♥
In Him,
nancy

 

[Episkopos]

Good stuff Epi. I hope you will make this a sermon! This has also brought me hope and encouragement as, I find it very difficult to find "true" fellowship, always thought it was just something about me that was odd, different, or less than others?
I also have peace even though I am single and celibate and will remain so for the rest of my days as, God's grace is more than sufficient for me. I depend only on Him for every breath I take, every need I have and, He has never failed me.
"Churches" can be the loneliest of places and can hurt you like no other. Thank God - He is faithful ♥
In Him,
nancy

God bless you precious sister! <><

 

[CoreIssue]

Good stuff Epi. I hope you will make this a sermon! This has also brought me hope and encouragement as, I find it very difficult to find "true" fellowship, always thought it was just something about me that was odd, different, or less than others?
I also have peace even though I am single and celibate and will remain so for the rest of my days as, God's grace is more than sufficient for me. I depend only on Him for every breath I take, every need I have and, He has never failed me.
"Churches" can be the loneliest of places and can hurt you like no other. Thank God - He is faithful ♥
In Him,
nancy

The Bible says all born-again are saints. Only elevated per his definition per him.

 

[Nancy]

The Bible says all born-again are saints. Only elevated per his definition per him.

I was actually replying to his post #8.

 

[CoreIssue]

I was actually replying to his post #8.

Even in that post he denie denies all born-again believer Saints.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Of course...not up to me...

I don't bite!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Episkopos,

Do you sin?

Serious question, with a serious discussion to follow. Much to be revealed.

Much love!

I don't see that anyone answered your question, though I have some people on "ignore," but which kind of sin are you talking about? Sins unto death, or sins NOT unto death? You do know there is a difference don't you. I hate these loaded questions, when only half a question is asked.

Those filled with the seed of the Father, the Holy Spirit do not commit sins unto death. I am filled with the Spirit, so any desire to commit those sins was killed by the Spirit long ago. What about you? Do you still sin? Which kind, or both?

 

[charity]

Now Catholics believe that a saint comes along once in a generation...and Protestants think everybody who accepts free salvation is a saint.

I believe neither are true.

I am posting this thread for those who are interested in advancing their walks towards saintliness. God has ordained that there will always be a remnant who do so.

I will not engage in futile discussions from people with carnal and religious agendas who seek to defend their presumed status. If I could delete these annoyances that are sure to arise...I would.

So what is a saint?

A saint is one who walks like Jesus...in resurrection power. There are few saints in a society such as we find ourselves...but there could be many more if only people would...

1. acknowledge that they are not yet saints (humble themselves)
2. take their calling seriously and seek the Lord.


To be a saint means walking where few have walked...yet are able to do so because of the deeper gift of grace....which is the keeping power of God...after the surrender of all one is and has.

The purpose of this thread is to inform and encourage potential saints to that higher calling in Jesus Christ that Paul sought after so much. What Paul sought for in his day...people mock today as pointless. Is it any wonder then that so few saints are being molded in our time?

Hello @Episkopos,

What you or I think of this, is of no consequence. It is how the Holy Spirit uses the term that matters. It is His Word, and therefore How He, Himself, uses it, is the only authoritative voice where it's meaning and relevant usage is concerned. So let His word speak, and let your own understanding be silent.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

I don't see that anyone answered your question, though I have some people on "ignore," but which kind of sin are you talking about? Sins unto death, or sins NOT unto death? You do know there is a difference don't you. I hate these loaded questions, when only half a question is asked.

Those filled with the seed of the Father, the Holy Spirit do not commit sins unto death. I am filled with the Spirit, so any desire to commit those sins was killed by the Spirit long ago. What about you? Do you still sin? Which kind, or both?

Hi 1st CenturyLady,

I was hoping Episkopos would answer.

All that is not of faith is sin. That's the sin I'm talking about, that which is not from faith. That opens a rather wide playing field, and includes all we do wrong.

As far as sins unto death, and sins not unto death, would you tell me your definition of which sins are unto death, and which are not?

Much love!
Mark

 

[1stCenturyLady]

As far as sins unto death, and sins not unto death, would you tell me your definition of which sins are unto death, and which are not?

I can tell you what the Word says - not my definition. The Old Testament was our "schoolmaster" and shows the nature of God and what He thinks and requires.

1 John 3:4 calls those sins, lawlessness. The OT would call them breaking one of the Ten Commandments, the LAW. Did you know that in the Old Testament that if someone broke a commandment there was NO sacrifice that would cover their sin? They killed them, thus a "sin unto death." Another aspect of this type of sin would be they are presumptuous and willful; Paul warns us about them in Hebrews 10:26-31. Knowing the commandments, you would KNOW you are rebelling against God when you commit one of these.

A sin not unto death that did have sacrifices provided to cover them were called trespasses. Leviticus 5:15 says they are (not willful), but unwittingly committed. IOW, unintentional. Numbers 15:22-36 shows this sacrifice, and further along shows they killed a man that broke a commandment.

So getting back to your question, which type of "sin" are you talking about. 1 John 3 is talking about willful presumptuous sin unto death. And 1 John 3:9 says we do not EVER commit these.

 

[marks]

I can tell you what the Word says - not my definition. The Old Testament was our "schoolmaster" and shows the nature of God and what He thinks and requires.

1 John 3:4 calls those sins, lawlessness. The OT would call them breaking one of the Ten Commandments, the LAW. Did you know that in the Old Testament that if someone broke a commandment there was NO sacrifice that would cover their sin? They killed them, thus a "sin unto death." Another aspect of this type of sin would be they are presumptuous and willful; Paul warns us about them in Hebrews 10:26-31. Knowing the commandments, you would KNOW you are rebelling against God when you commit one of these.

A sin not unto death that did have sacrifices provided to cover them were called trespasses. Leviticus 5:15 says they are (not willful), but unwittingly committed. IOW, unintentional. Numbers 15:22-36 shows this sacrifice, and further along shows they killed a man that broke a commandment.

So getting back to your question, which type of "sin" are you talking about. 1 John 3 is talking about willful presumptuous sin unto death. And 1 John 3:9 says we do not EVER commit these.

OK, so you split it according to the punishments of the OT.

Worshiping other Gods, adultery, Sabbath breaking, Murder, so we can also include hatred and lust, all of that.

How deeply into the heart of things should we look?

Is not trusting God, and instead trusting in ourselves, (i.e. worry), false worship? Worthy of death?

Certainly looking to lust after another would be adultery, worthy of death.

Hatred is murder, worthy of death.

Let's take "breaking the Sabbath". Punishable by death. And they killed a man for that too. I did chores last Saturday. Yes, I've recently committed "sin unto death" in your definition.

Much love!
Mark

 

[farouk]

OK, so you split it according to the punishments of the OT.

Worshiping other Gods, adultery, Sabbath breaking, Murder, so we can also include hatred and lust, all of that.

How deeply into the heart of things should we look?

Is not trusting God, and instead trusting in ourselves, (i.e. worry), false worship? Worthy of death?

Certainly looking to lust after another would be adultery, worthy of death.

Hatred is murder, worthy of death.

Let's take "breaking the Sabbath". Punishable by death. I did chores last Saturday. Yes, I've recently committed "sin unto death" in your definition.

Much love!
Mark

The law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

(Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19)

 

[marks]

The law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

(Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19)

Understood!



I'm actually resting in the righteousness of God that comes without the Law. So I'm actually keeping the Sabbath, but not in 1CL's eyes, apparently, as I am commiting sins unto death, so I thought I'd follow along her reasoning to see where it leads.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

The law was changed.

What we now have is better than the law.

(Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19)

This change is in reference to the priesthood and holiness laws...temple holiness. From the Levitical priesthood to that of the order of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 7:26, 27)

What was once symbolic yet weak through the flesh...is now fulfilled by walking in the Spirit by grace...thus actually going much further than the original law in that we have been given the divine nature to fulfill it. (Be holy for I am holy)

The law according to righteousness remains the same...and actually is more stringent for those who have received grace. We are not only to wash the outside of the cup but also the inside...the purity comes from within.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[marks]

A more stringent law? That's what we've been brought into?

Romans 4:19-24
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

No, not another Law. The righteousness of God without the Law.

It's now the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ, to the believing.

Why?

This is SO important to understand.

I keep asking, @Episkopos, do you sin? Do you commit sins?

This is the reason for the question, which you seem so reluctant to answer.

Because if you say, No, I don't sin, well, frankly, who would answer that?

So if you say Yes, I do sin, then what happens to all that righteousness and holiness that depends on your performance?

So if you do commit a sin, and by your words you cannot if you are "in Christ", then if you sin, you must no longer be "in Christ", correct? Except that if you then are not in Christ . . . well, let's continue that should you even respond to this.

There's a very important point to be made, very liberating.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

OK, so you split it according to the punishments of the OT.

Worshiping other Gods, adultery, Sabbath breaking, Murder, so we can also include hatred and lust, all of that.

How deeply into the heart of things should we look?

Is not trusting God, and instead trusting in ourselves, (i.e. worry), false worship? Worthy of death?

Certainly looking to lust after another would be adultery, worthy of death.

Hatred is murder, worthy of death.

Let's take "breaking the Sabbath". Punishable by death. And they killed a man for that too. I did chores last Saturday. Yes, I've recently committed "sin unto death" in your definition.

Much love!
Mark

I know you are being sarcastic which is a sin of the heart, it is against the fruit of the Spirit, and bearing false witness and pride. But, yes, hatred and lust would be murder and adultery. The Sabbath, however, was the sign of the Old Covenant. We are under a New Covenant, therefore, not under the sign of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant has a sign. Do you know what it is? Let's see how well you know your Bible?

 

[marks]

I know you are being sarcastic which is a sin of the heart, it is against the fruit of the Spirit, and bearing false witness and pride. But, yes, hatred and lust would be murder and adultery. The Sabbath, however, was the sign of the Old Covenant. We are under a New Covenant, therefore, not under the sign of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant has a sign. Do you know what it is? Let's see how well you know your Bible?

Actually, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being serious. And if that's so, am I the false witness? And does this change your response?

Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Is this not a "sin unto death", as you've specified?

Let's stay with this topic a moment, before moving on to others.

You've specified sins which are against the 10 commandments (the Sabbath is part of that) and that were punishable by death in the OT, and the Sabbath was one of those.

So breaking the Sabbath is against the 10 commandments, and is punishable by death. So does that not make it one of the "sins unto death" by your definition?

If not, we can re-look at your definition. Otherwise, we stand with this, correct?

Last Saturday, knowing it was Saturday, I did chores. I worked. A man was killed for just picking up sticks on the Sabbath. I dare say I do a lot more work on Saturday's than that!

Thoughts?

Much love!
Mark