I have scripture proving eternal security of the believer. And i have just as many scriptures teaching against it.
Someone push me over
Someone push me over
On the fence
- Thread starter St. Joseph
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Ahhhh, the proverbial fence!
God is Love John tells us and Paul tells us that love holds no record of wrongs (1Corinthians 13:5)
I hold a record of my wrongs and so does Satan and he throws them at me to discourage me.....but God doesn't.
The problem isn't God, it is that we don't believe that God see's us as his Princes and Princesses; we don't believe God has forgiven all our sins for his sake.
Any judgement is ours, not God's.
A word re 'seeing/ hearing' the language of judgement;
As an example, if I were to say 'the judgement of St. Joseph, what comes to mind is that St. Joseph is arraigned before the bar of judgement......yet If I say 'the judgement of God' we easily conclude that God is the Judge, not the one being judged. How is it that one expression of judgement focuses on St. Joseph as the subject and the other on God as the subject?
If, as according to 1 Corinthians 13:5, God holds no record of wrongs but there is 'judgement' then do we conclude it is us judging God? Well, one might ask, whatever for? I would suggest we are continually judging God whether he is worthy of our worship.
Yes, God is arrayed at the bar of judgement, before not just the human race but before all intelligences of the Universe.
We hear/ read in the book of Revelation the angels of God and other intelligences throughout the Universe apart from rebels both human and angelic, unanimously declare that God is worthy of worship because of the most unexpected reason.....the slaughtered Lamb.....which reveals the heart of God.
And thats the dilemma. True God forgave me of all past sins up to when i accepted him as savoir. But i that does not make me perfect. I will sin again at sometime in my life.
That's not how it works. What you will need to do is a careful and prayerful study of the doctrine of salvation. There are too many here and on Christian forums who have not really done their proper study of salvation.
God has forgiven you all your sins....past and present. That is the generosity and kindness of God. He has forgiven you of sins you are not even aware of.
Can you believe such generosity? Such love?
Let's take Judas as an example.....he didn't think he was worthy of forgiveness....so he killed himself. God didn't kill him, Judas did.....and all because he superimposed his own flawed value structure onto God. He assumed that because he wouldn't forgive a person who behaved as he did after being in Jesus inner circle for 3.5 yrs, God wouldn't either. In other words, his own judgement out weighed that of God's.
We see God's value structure at the crucifixion.....where in the very act of being murdered Jesus forgives his murders, who were ignorant of the grievousness of the sin they were committing .....and to one of the thieves strung up beside him he lavishes an unheard of generosity......and all that the thief had hoped for was to be remembered!
In one of Jesus' exclamations, he says 'he who comes to me will I in no wise cast out'
We, us selfish, frail, short sighted and tight fisted humans insist on putting conditions on statements like that. In other words, we refuse to believe him.
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I also feel Judas could have ask for forgiveness.
But say at a weak point,i rob a bank. I wouldnt have to seek forgiveness. Or i become weak and commit adultry, im good?
Thats the way it sounds.
I am not perfect and without sin.
Be certain that our sins will not stop God loving us....as displayed at Calvary...... but also be certain that our sins persisted in will seperate us from God, not God from us........and he will never say, yes, I love you, but you're just not good enough so burn forever!....that, is the devil and our attempts to short change God's kindness.....to superimpose our and the Devil's rationale onto God.
When the finale demise of the wicked come, God will have tears in his eyes for the loss of those who refused his kindness.
We hear the plaintive cry of Jesus as he overlooks the City,.....reminiscent of all he came to save (humanity) 'Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered you as a hen gathers her chickens but you would not, behold your house is left to you desolate'
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I am studying under J. Vernon McGee at present. He has a convincing argument. I want believe him. He changef my mind in believing the rapture.
Windmillcharge
Well-Known Member
What verse contradict what Jesus says.
John10:25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
i agree no one can snatch you out of his hand,force you. But you have a freewill and can leave at anytime. Hence the scripture,"He who puts his hand to the plow and turns back,is not worthy for the kingdom"
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