so much for this post
no the osnas crowd DOES NOT call God a liar .they have scripture just like the osas does.
Once Blood Bought and Justified, Always Blood Bought and Justified? ... You Betcha!
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ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
You believe scripture contradicts itself. That's a mistake.
There is no scripture right understood that calls God's eternal irrevocable gift of faith and salvation a lie. Though OSNAS insist that is true.
God cannot contradict himself.
Eternal Life is eternal salvation. Because dying as a unredeemed sinner is the second eternal death.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Pride and ego driven. It's called auto-theism. Self as deity, god.
The idea someone needs to help God save them makes them co-creators of their (false) salvation.
Which is what leads them to also believe , as in the secular realm, what they work to achieve can be lost by them as well.
It's Anti-Christ doctrine.
so its your claim ..ill use a example Charles Manson ,,lets say he got saved as a young man went back into the world.. contributing to murder.. he had eternal life?
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Well, at least you didn't post Godwin's law.
Non-Sequitur.
There's no evidence "Charlie" was ever saved.
As an aside, there was no evidence CM participated in the executing the slaughter.
Tex Watson was also called Charlie at times. Because he was CM's right hand man.
Ever watch the Brad Pitt movie, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood?
Fantastic! If only.
thats NOT what i said was it? i fully understand eternal security/osas i have studied it inside and out.. i know what both sides have in scripture
nope not a movie buff back to the regular scheduled program
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Charles Manson was not saved. He was not a Christian. He was defiant and unrepentant to the end.
That's your answer. You asked about a man who was obviously not a Christian. That was silly.
once again THAT is not the question i asked please read carefully ***** note i used as a example if you cant answer i understand let me help you out
hope this helps you
no the only thing silly as you say ..is your claim those who are of the osnas doctrine make God a liar
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
That's precisely what they're,you're, trying to do with that unbiblical doctrine.
Jesus died to bring and seal the eternal salvation through God's irrevocable grace covenant.
All that transpires in the reborn, redeemed sinner, is permanent.
If you knew the Gospel "inside and out", you'd know that.
You would also know what it means to be in Christ, and Christ in us.
Maybe this will help you.
sigh i dont need a you tube video i read my bible. your missing the point because your blinded by pride
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature and have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. (2 Peter 1:4) The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.
*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."
Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil, ruin, deprave, corrupt, defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.
Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).
Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced by the Roman Catholic church in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids its clergy to marry. This same church has other doctrines of demons such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..
Those who "permanently" fall away demonstrate that their faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. 1 John 2:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become [past tense Greek verb, gegonamen, meaning we have become already] partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we have read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast to Christ."
The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in their promised Messiah and of course, the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born-again Hebrews who have partaken in Messiah, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. What about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty. But later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
In Hebrews 4:1-2, we read - "For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were believers. Notice that verses 2-3 make a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
Afraid you'll learn something. I understand.
Not pride at all. I just know that you are baiting Christians here. When in reality you know nothing of our faith or the covenant.
It's a giveaway, just so you know for next time you think of doing this, when someone opposed to the teaching of eternal salvation posits a question about history and some of the worst sinners, to ask if any one of them were saved.
If you knew the NT back to front as you claim, you'd never think to ask that question. Because Christians know that answer.
You have my deepest sympathy that your life has led you to this "hobby".
i beg your pardon you just think you know. when in fact you dont. i am trying NOTE TRYING get you to understand is the osnas teaching does NOT make God a liar. that is a carnal statement very fleshly. when i used the charles manson example you know good and well. the osas teaching would say he Goes to heaven if he had ever been saved at some point in his life. YES its evident he was not saved. so Chill your self out. this is NOT A BAIT . so quit being so skeptical and answer the question,, BTW i do know the teaching of osas very well. i also know osnas teaching very well to. if you cant answer the question just say so and i will drop you like hot coal in this post
ButterflyJones
Well-Known Member
you have no observation i tried to reach out to you.. your only problem your indoctrinated to the point your the only one right. BTW i am about as close to osas as one gets.. only thing to claim out. one must be truly saved .Also you know good and well my example was correct. you can profess salvation be baptized go back to a drunk and still make heaven a true blue born again will fall/fail .but they will get back up and return,. this ends this i have no desire to try to discuss anything with someone so blind they cant see past their NOSE
Please stop this feuding my friends. I'm afraid the mods might step in and end my thread ... and I still have so much that I want to post. I'm new to the website, but I know on other websites threads have been ended due to stuff like this. I'm not blaming either one of you ... but really, this is really going in a bad direction. Matthew 5:9, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." ...
what say you?
not at all i dont want to be so narrow minded that .i am the only one right
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