Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[Stranger]

Taken

(1 Thess 1:4) says, "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God." This is not indicating you elect God. It is speaking of your election that is from God. Just as Paul says later in (2 Thess. 2:13) "...give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." Just as he said also in (Eph. 1:4). "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

As you can see from these verses I do consider both parties. God has chosen us first, from the foundation of the world. We still come into that salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. But God's choosing is first. We will come because God has chosen.

Again, I never said your sin wasn't covered. Thus you missed the point in trying to point out your sin is covered. Though your sin is covered does not mean God doesn't know when you sin. He does. This is why there is need for him to chastise us at times. If He never saw the sin, He could see no reason for our punishment. Just because one is born-again, doesn't mean they don't sin.

God has not forgiven all your sins. He has paid for all your sins. Because He has paid for them all, He can forgive you as you sin as a believer, but He expects you to come to Him and confess your sins, and then He is faithful and just to forgive your sins. If you don't come to him when you sin, and you do sin, though you like to pretend you do not, then He doesn't forgive them and judgement will follow.

Again, your body is not born-again. Your body is still that inherited from Adam. Which is why it will die. Your body is still a body of sin. If it wasn't a body of sin, then it would not die. The reason your body returns to dust is because it is full of sin. It has to die. If you acknowledge your body will return to dust then you must acknowledge your body is full of sin. You can't have it both ways.

When you say you sin no more, you are lying to God and yourself.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Taken

(1 Thess 1:4) says, "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God." This is not indicating you elect God.

So according to you;
"Your election of God, means you are not electing God".

I disagree; I do not believe your opinion trumps what Scripture plainly says.

It is speaking of your election that is from God. Just as Paul says later in (2 Thess. 2:13) "...give thanks alway to god for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

And Paul verifies God chooses men, So according to you, men do not choose God?

Just as he said also in (Eph. 1:4). "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

And again Scripture verifies God chooses men, So according to you, men do not choose God?

As you can see from these verses I do consider both parties.

No, you ONLY have God Choosing, not men.

God has chosen us first, from the foundation of the world.

So what is your explanation for God creating ALL men, and Loving ALL men.......BUT....
ONLY FEW ARE CHOSEN?

Matt 22:14
For many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN.

We still come into that salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

But God's choosing is first.

What do you mean,

But God's choosing is first

You are IMPLYING there is a CHOICE, after Gods' FIRST choosing......Who would that BE?

Certainly NOT MEN, since you said....

(paraphrasing) Men do not elect/choose God

We will come because God has chosen.

Again...What is your explanation for God ONLY "FIRST" CHOOSING A FEW, and NOT ALL MEN, He has created and Loves?

Again, I never said your sin wasn't covered. Thus you missed the point in trying to point out your sin is covered.

YOU were impressing, my body STILL HAS SIN. I addressed that sin. It is forgiven, covered, forgotten. So, your mentioning it IS MOOT.

Though your sin is covered does not mean God doesn't know when you sin.

ERROR! What part of SIN "NO MORE", did you not understand?

He does.

ERROR! Gods Word says, whosoever is born of God, CAN NOT SIN.

Why do you not trust the Word of God? And in trust your opinion instead?

You may claim YOU ARE BORN AGAIN, AND STILL DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.....but that does not apply to me.

God forgave me FOR NOT BEING BORN BELIEVING IN HIM; and then CHOOSING TO BELIEVE IN HIM, AND CALLING ON HIS NAME, and MAKING MY ELECTION OF HIM to be MY GOD FOREVER. And HE KEEPS ME FOREVER IN FAITH-fullnes TO HIM ONLY.
My Standing is WITH HIM ONLY FOREVER, that I can NEVER Be AGAINST HIM.
And Precisely, WHY, I can SIN NO MORE....

This is why there is need for him to chastise us at times. If He never saw the sin, He could see no reason for our punishment.

Error!
Chastisement is for mans profit, toward righteousness and holiness.

Just because one is born-again, doesn't mean they don't sin.

WOW... That is THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of Gods Word.

God has not forgiven all your sins.

WOW....Gods Word is NOT TRUE? He says you ARE FORGIVEN, but doesn't mean it?

Really? So when the Lord says your sins are forgiven.....then what? He makes a man WHOLE, and sanctified, and indwells in the man, and WHAT?

Spiritually roams around inside of you POWERLESS, while you, TRUMP His POWER, and SIN AGAINST HIM?

Where IS this Scripture, that says the Lord DWELLS IN SIN?

Where IS this Scripture, that says God doesn't mean what He says?

He has paid for all your sins.

Yes, I am fully aware of that.

Because He has paid for them all, He can forgive you as you sin as a believer,

Really? Where is this Scriptural Caveat....?
That says. The Lords Forgiveness is conditional, (since, according to you), He has to WAIT TO SEE what MORE sins you might commit...

And Where is this Scripture that SUPERSEDES and makes; Whosoever is born of God CAN NOT SIN, a LIE?

but He expects you to come to Him and confess your sins,

He expects? Uh disagree.

He TEACHES, there is a WAY; His WAY; for the CORRUPT born of a mans seed; to Become Forgiven; "sanctified"; made WHOLE, born of an UNCORRUPTABLE Seed; Gods SEED; that will FOREVER remain within the Man; and KEEP the man "FREED FROM SIN", that he CAN NOT SIN against God EVER AGAIN.

and then He is faithful and just to forgive your sins.

He already did. His Spirit IS NOT DWELLING within a man WHO IS SINNING.

Where is the Scripture that says GOD DWELLS IN YOU, while YOU are committing SIN?

If you don't come to him when you sin,

Already did. I trust His word is TRUE.

I don't believe as you do; that His Forgiveness is Conditional. Nor that He dwells in Sin.

and you do sin,

Now, why do you take the liberty to determine what Applies to me?

If YOU want to make the Lord a liar, and claim you are born again, and He dwells IN YOU, while you commit sin....that's on you...
Dont' INCLUDE ME, according to your opinion.

I don't CONTINUE to ASK the Lord for what He has ALREADY GIVEN ME. He has already forgiven me. I trust His Word is True.
I trust His Word is True. Men born of God, can not sin. I do not keep asking the Lord to Forgive me for sin I CAN NOT commit.

How does that work for you? When you continue to commit sin Against God, do you tell Him, you don't believe His Word? Do you tell Him, His making you WHOLE failed? Do you tell Him, His forgiveness failed? Do you tell him his cleansing you from all unrighteousness failed?

And what exactly is He doing IN YOU, while you are committing sin? Dwelling in your sin?

Seriously, How do you reconcile such issues?

though you like to pretend you do not,

ERROR! There is NO presence.
Unlike you, I trust the Word of God is TRUE.
Unlike you, I do NOT BELIEVE the Lord dwells in Sin, in a man, while the man is Standing Against Him and committing sin.

And seriously, please do provide the Scripture that reveals, whosoever is born of God continues to SIN.

then He doesn't forgive them and judgement will follow.

Seriously, "IF" one "IS" born again, THAT is followed BY a man electing/choosing God; and being forgiven of God.
So, telling me forgiveness is necessary is moot.

Again, your body is not born-again.

Again...No kidding. It will NEVER be born again!

Your body is still that inherited from Adam. Which is why it will die.

It appears you DO NOT, trust the Word of God; MY old man IS DEAD.

Your body is still a body of sin. If it wasn't a body of sin, then it would not die.

"WOULD" not die?

Apparently you are UNAWARE, a crucified body IS DEAD!

Rom 8:10
"IF" Christ be in you, the BODY IS DEAD...

The reason your body returns to dust is because it is full of sin.

Disagree.

The BODY returns to dust, BECAUSE it came from dust. Ecc 12:7

Body's did not come from heaven, therefore they do not return to heaven.

It has to die.

Of course. Not in question. It has to die, because IT STOOD AGAINST GOD. And God pronounced the Sentence of DEATH, FOR it Standing Against God.

If you acknowledge your body will return to dust then you must acknowledge your body is full of sin.

I only have to acknowledge the Truth.
The body comes From the dust, and shall RETURN to the dust.

The sentence for the mans body is death.
But nothing says the BODY had any other place provided for it to be besides the earth.

You can't have it both ways.

"I" don't have to have it ANY WAY, except GODS WAY, which I have chosen.

When the Lord bodily descends from Heaven to the clouds to call UP "HIS CHURCH", He shall be calling UP; those who ARE WHOLE.
And those who are WHOLE; are WHOLE, and wholly acceptable TO BE CALLED UP...

For Me....the God of Peace (Christ Jesus) has Sanctified me WHOLLY; spirit, soul, body.

For You...Who continues to commit sin; the same as the "OLD MAN" does, who has not been made WHOLE, and preserved BY the Power of Gods indwelling Spirit....

I pray for you...to become made WHOLE....
And preserved WHOLE, by the Power of God WHO MAKES a man WHOLE, and who Dwells within a man and preserves His WHOLE, spirit, and soul, and body; that you be Justified to be redeemed.

Surely you must know; Christ Jesus is coming to redeem those who ARE born of God, and NOT those who remain the OLD MAN who is Commiting SIN.

When you say you sin no more, you are lying to God and yourself.

Perhaps you can EXPLAIN GOD LYING...

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God....CAN NOT SIN.

Perhaps you can EXPLAIN why you reject Gods WORD, that I Believe, and you say, for me to Believe His WORD, is me LYING to God.

Seriously? That is completely absurd.

 

[Stranger]

Taken

I showed you what (1 Thess. 1:4) means. All you have to do is compare it with (2 Thess. 2:13) and (Eph. 1:4). Men choose to follow God and Christ. But only because God has first chosen them. The order is clear. Both parties are considered. Pay attention.

I never said God loved all men. And neither has God.

What do you mean asking me 'what do I mean'? I showed you what the Scripture said. Don't 'act' ignorant. I mean exactly what I said. God chooses first. Because God has chosen then those chosen will come to Him in faith. God's loving 'all' doesn't play a role as I said God does not love all.

If you're going to cite verses of Scripture, and make empty comments on them, give the Scripture. Else I will not comment on it. That I know where they may be or can find them is immaterial. No reason for you to be lazy and wrong. Others who read may not know.

Concerning the sin of the believer consider this. (Gal. 2:11) "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

(Gal. 1:6) "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"

(1 Cor. 1:11) "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you."

(1 Cor. 4:18) "Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you."

(1 Cor. 5:1) "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles,that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. "

(1 Cor. 5:11-13) "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolateer, or a railer, or a drunkard,or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. "

(2 Cor. 2:6-7) "Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow."

(Gal. 6:1) "Brethren,if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

As for me taking the liberty to call you a sinner, that is no liberty. That is the truth. You are living a lie and fantasy to think you are not still guilty of sins and need to confess them to the Lord when you do. Thus I will always include you and anyone else as a sinner, even though you may be a believer.

I have already explained that though your old man is dead, he still lives as you carry around with you this body of sin. And thus you can still sin. Remember? The only reason the body dies, the only reason the body goes back to dust, is sin. That is why your body is going back to dust, it is full of sin. If the Rapture occurs first, then the change is made immediately from a body of sin to a glorified body. But a change has to be made because the body is full of sin.

Don't waste your prayers in praying for me. Focus on the Scriptures. God is not lying and I do not reject God's Word. It is you who are twisting the Scriptures to make it appear that you no longer sin. Such a thing God has never said.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

"I never said God loved all men. And neither has God."

for God so loved the world...

 

[Taken]

Taken

I showed you what (1 Thess. 1:4) means.

You told me your opinion and your understanding.

All you have to do is compare it with (2 Thess. 2:13) and (Eph. 1:4).

Disagree, that is all that is necessary.

Men choose to follow God and Christ.

Scripture says men elect God.
You flat out disagreed that men elect God.

That was your disagreement with Scripture.

Now you say; men choose God ONLY because God chose them FIRST.

Now, that you disagreed with Scripture, and then agrees with Scripture;

Based on your caveat, of who does what first...

Explain WHY, God DID NOT CHOOSE, ALL MEN.

Both parties are considered. Pay attention.

You pay attention to the flow of the conversation.

You said flat out men do not elect God.
At that time, YOU did not consider a mans election of God, as a matter of fact, YOU said men do not elect God.

Why did God NOT choose ALL MEN?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Taken

I never said God loved all men. And neither has God.

John 3:16...
God SO LOVED the WORLD....

Again, you disagree with the Word of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

What do you mean asking me 'what do I mean'? I showed you what the Scripture said. Don't 'act' ignorant. I mean exactly what I said.

And EXACTLY what you SAID WAS...

Men do NOT elect God.

Then you said they DO.

So, to you, it is ignorant to wonder WHY you flat out SAID, men do not elect God?

Point being; Your statement, that men DO NOT ELECT GOD, was FALSE.

Now you try to change the premise....about who chooses who FIRST.

It does not change the FACT, you said flat out men do not elect God.

God chooses first.

Because

God has chosen then those chosen will come to Him in faith.

WHY? Why will men WHOM GOD CHOSE come to Him?

Again, YOU HAVE ONLY GOD MAKING THE CHOICE. And then saying men WILL come to Him, based solely on Gods CHOICE.

Again, YOU HAVE NOT said WHY God ONLY chooses a FEW, when He SO LOVED THE WORLD....(John 3:16)

God's loving 'all' doesn't play a role as I said God does not love all.

Thanks for your opinion, but I'll trust God loves His Creations.

So, now that you have told me what God Doesn't Love....How about telling me WHY God doesn't CHOOSE ALL men that He created?

If you're going to cite verses of Scripture, and make empty comments on them, give the Scripture.

I cited, Scripture that Men Elect God, and agreed with it.
You are the one who flat out disagreed, and then explained, Scripture doesn't mean what it says, but means what YOU say.

No reason for you to be lazy and wrong. Others who read may not know.

It seems according to you, Others can not read Scripture and believe it; without knowing you and first getting your opinion of what Scripture "really" means.

Scripture is Knowledge, one either believes it or they don't.
The Understanding comes from God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Concerning the sin of the believer consider this.

(Gal. 2:11) "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."

You are teaching BEING BLAMED, is a SIN?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Concerning the sin of the believer consider this.

(Gal. 1:6) "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:"

You are teaching someone went to another gospel after haveing been called by Christ?

Who deflected? And What was this "other gospel", some unknown person deflected to?

And WHY should his deflection be considered a SIN, as you say SHOULD be Considered.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Concerning the sin of the believer consider this.

(1 Cor. 1:11) "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you."

You are teaching there is contentions among men in the house of Chloe, without identifying the contentions, and WHAT the SIN supposedly is that must be considered?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

You told me your opinion and your understanding.



Disagree, that is all that is necessary.



Scripture says men elect God.
You flat out disagreed that men elect God.

That was your disagreement with Scripture.

Now you say; men choose God ONLY because God chose them FIRST.

Now, that you disagreed with Scripture, and then agrees with Scripture;

Based on your caveat, of who does what first...

Explain WHY, God DID NOT CHOOSE, ALL MEN.



You pay attention to the flow of the conversation.

You said flat out men do not elect God.
At that time, YOU did not consider a mans election of God, as a matter of fact, YOU said men do not elect God.

Why did God NOT choose ALL MEN?

God Bless,
Taken

Scripture does not say that men elect God. (1 Thess. 1:4) does not say men elect God. It says, "knowing, brethren beloved,your election of God."
Election is God's business, not mans. Man comes to God in faith. Man does not elect God.

"Knowing-as we know, The three participles (vv.2,3,4) give the time manner, and reason for giving thanks' (v.2), your election of God--rather [egapemenoi hupo Theou], 'beloved by God:' so Rom. 1:7 "Your election"--i.e. God elected you, as individual believers, to eternal life...." (A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Eerdmans, 1990, p. 457)

(1 Thess. 1:4) "knowing, brethren beloved by God, your election." (The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, Berry, Zondervan, p. 528)

I have told you, God elects. God chooses man. Then man chooses by faith to follow God.

The elect of God are of God. That is why He chooses them. He does not choose all because not all are of God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You are teaching BEING BLAMED, is a SIN?

God Bless,
Taken

(James 2:4-7) "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons....."

Sinning Christians. Just like you are.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You are teaching someone went to another gospel after haveing been called by Christ?

Who deflected? And What was this "other gospel", some unknown person deflected to?

And WHY should his deflection be considered a SIN, as you say SHOULD be Considered.

God Bless,
Taken

No, the Bible is teaching it. It doesn't matter what the other gospel was. The fact is they were turning away from Paul's Gospel to another, a false gospel. Turning away from God is a sin. I hope that isn't news to you.

So the believers sin here and now. And so the need to confess that sin. Thus you are mistaken in believing the born-again Christian does not sin.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

You are teaching there is contentions among men in the house of Chloe, without identifying the contentions, and WHAT the SIN supposedly is that must be considered?

God Bless,
Taken

No the Bible is teaching it. It declares there are contentions among the believers, as I showed you. If you want to know more, go and read the Bible. It will do you good.

The fact is, the believers sin here and now. Thus the need to confess that sin and move on.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

John 3:16...
God SO LOVED the WORLD....

Again, you disagree with the Word of God.

God Bless,
Taken

It says God so loved the world. It doesn't say God loves all men. World here speaks to world order.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

And EXACTLY what you SAID WAS...

Men do NOT elect God.

Then you said they DO.

So, to you, it is ignorant to wonder WHY you flat out SAID, men do not elect God?

Point being; Your statement, that men DO NOT ELECT GOD, was FALSE.

Now you try to change the premise....about who chooses who FIRST.

It does not change the FACT, you said flat out men do not elect God.







WHY? Why will men WHOM GOD CHOSE come to Him?

Again, YOU HAVE ONLY GOD MAKING THE CHOICE. And then saying men WILL come to Him, based solely on Gods CHOICE.

Again, YOU HAVE NOT said WHY God ONLY chooses a FEW, when He SO LOVED THE WORLD....(John 3:16)



Thanks for your opinion, but I'll trust God loves His Creations.

So, now that you have told me what God Doesn't Love....How about telling me WHY God doesn't CHOOSE ALL men that He created?



I cited, Scripture that Men Elect God, and agreed with it.
You are the one who flat out disagreed, and then explained, Scripture doesn't mean what it says, but means what YOU say.



It seems according to you, Others can not read Scripture and believe it; without knowing you and first getting your opinion of what Scripture "really" means.

Scripture is Knowledge, one either believes it or they don't.
The Understanding comes from God.

God Bless,
Taken

Men do not elect God. God elects, God chooses. Then as a result men come to God by faith.

No, I present both sides, God's and man's. (2 Thess. 2:13) "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" But God is the One who chooses. God is the One Who elects. Man falls in line through the sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

God doesn't choose all because not all are of God.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Scripture does not say that men elect God. (1 Thess. 1:4) does not say men elect God. It says, "knowing, brethren beloved,your election of God."
Election is God's business, not mans. Man comes to God in faith. Man does not elect God./QUOTE]

You can deny Scripture as you so choose..
I choose to believe Scripture.

1 Thes 1:4 ....your election of God
2 Pet 1....your calling and election.

I have told you, God elects. God chooses man. Then man chooses by faith to follow God.

I have told you Both man and God Electes.
I have shown you Scripture that man Elects.

You flat out disagreed with Scripture.
That's on you.

The elect of God are of God. That is why He chooses them. He does not choose all because not all are of God.

Jumbled.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

(James 2:4-7) "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons....."

Sinning Christians. Just like you are.

Stranger

Since you have authorized yourself to Trump God...

Do tell...what is this supposed sin you are charging applies to me....

Oh and what is the consequence for this supposed sin?

 

[Taken]

No, the Bible is teaching it. It doesn't matter what the other gospel was. The fact is they were turning away from Paul's Gospel to another, a false gospel. Turning away from God is a sin. I hope that isn't news to you.

So the believers sin here and now. And so the need to confess that sin. Thus you are mistaken in believing the born-again Christian does not sin.

Stranger

Who are "they"?

And were they, being enlightened and believing.....BEFORE they were saved; like the 11 Disciples were being enlightened and believing.....BEFORE THEY WERE SAVED?

Some important facts are missing.

Lots of people BELIEVE, before they are saved; and those who BELIEVE before they are save, uh, still sin.

Why is this example relevant, when you have omitted the most important fact?

I am Saved and Born Again and can not sin.

Were they saved and born again?
Obviously not...

Apples and Oranges...no comparison.

 

[Taken]

No the Bible is teaching it. It declares there are contentions among the believers, as I showed you. If you want to know more, go and read the Bible. It will do you good.

Knowledge is fun.
However, without understanding of the Knowledge...men become in contention with Scripture, as you do.

The fact is, the believers sin here and now.

Facts are fun.
There is a difference between "BELIEVERS" and "BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS".

In case you have OVERLOOKED, the 3 years of the Disciples, learning, believing, and AFTER 3 years, BECAME BORN AGAIN.

Could they SIN "DURING" the 3 years?
Of course....In case you OVERLOOKED, some of the disciples, DOUBTING AND DENYING Jesus.

Thus the need to confess that sin and move on.

Believers WHO have BECOME born again...
Uh...confessed their sins and SIN NO MORE.

You should trust the power of Jesus Blood.