Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I sure am listening. Are you?

As I said, I don’t add to what Jesus plainly said there, “I never knew you”. If Jesus meant to speak of knowing intimately, He would have said “I never knew you intimately”. But He did not. So, if you say He meant that, that’s your call.

He didn't bring the matter up of 'never knowing them' at all in Luke 13:24-27. So, using your logic it's not a matter of either knowing them in salvation, or knowing them intimately when you read that passage! See, you get in trouble when you don't rightly divide the word of God! You do know what it means to not rightly divide the word of God, right?

And whose talking about Luke 13:24-27?

Nope. I don’t get in trouble. Only in your mind. And what’s now with the ad hominem ~ not rightly dividing the word?

Tong
R3317

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Remember Balaam, eh?

Excellent example! Very good!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And whose talking about Luke 13:24-27?

Can't you see it's plainly a parallel passage to Matthew 7:21-23?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Are you saying that justification is by doing what the law says?

Allow me to jump in here. If you or I could keep the law we would indeed be justified by that law. We would not be justified by simply hearing the law, we would be justified by keeping the law. That is equally true if Paul is using the word justified in regard to being shown to be righteous (see James 2:24). It isn't the person who hears the law that is shown to be righteous. It is the person who keeps (or rather upholds) the law that is justified as being a righteous person. Lip service don't cut it. Osas (the new Osas) says it does.

So, in short you are saying that one can be justified by keeping the law. Well,...

Tong
R3318

 

[Ferris Bueller]

not rightly dividing the word?

Don't try to discern Matthew 7:21-23 without the counsel of the rest of the word of God.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I Know. So?

You said Matthew 7:22 excluded any consideration that Jesus was talking about gifted teachers and prophets among the Jews who would one day say 'But, Lord....didn't we....?'

Please be kind to use the quote feature. Thanks.

Tong
R3319

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, in short you are saying that one can be justified by keeping the law. Well,...

Tong
R3318

Yes, but not the way you are only able to understand being justified by the law means. Don't you know what James 2:24 means? It doesn't mean a person is made righteous in God's sight by keeping the law. So, tell us, what does it mean?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, it is confirmed that you refer to Caiaphas as numbered among those many mentioned in Mt.7:23, right? But that would be a mistake.

No, no, no! Lol. I didn't say that. I was using him as proof that Jesus can be referring to the operation of legitimate gifts of the Spirit in unbelievers. I was NOT saying he, specifically, is one of those people who will one day say, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy..." in a vain attempt to gain entry into the kingdom of God. He is proof that the gifts operated in unbelievers during the time of Jesus under the old covenant. That's all.

Noted and clarified. And no issue on that matter.

Tong
R3320

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And whose talking about Luke 13:24-27?

Can't you see it's plainly a parallel passage to Matthew 7:21-23?

Perhaps for you.

Tong
R3321

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I pointed out, scriptures said Jesus never knew them. Period.

Never knew them in salvation, or never knew them intimately in salvation? Both are Biblical concepts of knowing. Show us using the passage alone which one was he referring to. Then show us he was talking about every single person he never knew, and not just a specific group of people, as I have shown could be the case. See, it's not as cut and dry as you are making it. You need other scripture to get the whole picture. The main point, which Osas does not seem to see the significance of, is that you won't be saved when Jesus comes back if you are living in lawlessness and not putting his words into practice, and are relying on your outward religious activity to somehow validate you as worthy of entering into the kingdom of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Perhaps for you.

Tong
R3321

Yes, for me, lol. The parallels are unmistakable! Only Osas can make Luke 13:24-27 not have the obvious parallel to Matthew 7:21-23 that it has.

 

[kcnalp]

Does the context of Ephesians 2:8 support your theory?
Can there not be divine grace imparted to those who exercise no faith? Why do we not all perish the moment we have our first evil thought? Does the principle of grace through faith truly mean grace and faith are hand-in-hand? The grace of God that leads to salvation has appeared to all men. Have all men exercised faith in the salvation offered?

Yes!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
not rightly dividing the word?

Don't try to discern Matthew 7:21-23 without the counsel of the rest of the word of God.

Good advise. It goes to all, including you, don’t you think?

Tong
R3322

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, in short you are saying that one can be justified by keeping the law. Well,...

Yes, but not the way you are only able to understand being justified by the law means. Don't you know what James 2:24 means? It doesn't mean a person is made righteous in God's sight by keeping the law. So, tell us, what does it mean?

Well, I’d stick with what scriptures tells me regarding justification and the law.

I don’t have anything to tell you about that. It is you who is saying that one can be justified by keeping the law, not me.

Tong
R3323

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Good advise. It goes to all, including you, don’t you think?

Tong
R3322

Yep! That's why I take 1 John 2:19-24 into consideration when discerning the passage. So should you.

 

[kcnalp]

Clearly I had not judged you in any way.

<<<You denied your own OSAS doctrine!>>>

And what’s this? Nothing good to say?

Tong
R3311

Your OSAS doctrine says I can NEVER be unsaved!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is you who is saying that one can be justified by keeping the law, not me.

IF you or I had kept the law, and would always keep the law we would indeed be justified by the law. The reason we can't be justified by the law is we can't keep it. Which is why we need a New Covenant through which to relate to God. A Covenant that is able to deal with the fact that we can't keep the law.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
As I pointed out, scriptures said Jesus never knew them. Period.

Never knew them in salvation, or never knew them intimately in salvation? Both are Biblical concepts of knowing. Show us using the passage alone which one was he referring to. Then show us he was talking about every single person he never knew, and not just a specific group of people, as I have shown could be the case. See, it's not as cut and dry as you are making it. You need other scripture to get the whole picture. The main point, which Osas does not seem to see the significance of, is that you won't be saved when Jesus comes back if you are living in lawlessness and not putting his words into practice, and are relying on your outward religious activity to somehow validate you as worthy of entering into the kingdom of God.

Whatever it is you want to make of Jesus’ statement, it does not explain away the truth of the matter that Jesus never knew them, so that He told them to depart from Him.

We’ve said so much about this. Think it’s time that we leave that and agree to disagree and allow the Holy Spirit do the convincing.

Tong
R3324

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, for me, lol. The parallels are unmistakable! Only Osas can make Luke 13:24-27 not have the obvious parallel to Matthew 7:21-23 that it has.

So it’s a parallel for you then.

Tong
R3325

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Good advise. It goes to all, including you, don’t you think?

Yep! That's why I take 1 John 2:19-24 into consideration when discerning the passage. So should you.

I consider not only 1 John 2:19-24. We all should do that.

So let us rightly divide the word.

Tong
R3326