One Creed to live by and die for...

[Behold]

extensive scripture to see if all 'fell' into place easily and in harmony like completing a jig-saw puzzle without brute forcing it left with ragged edges and tabs and pieces left over without a home in the process.....

..

"God manifested in the Flesh"

"And the Word was God"

"Jesus is the Word made flesh".

"And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us"

"Jesus,, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be Equal with God"""

Jesus said 'I and my Father are One"

Jesus said.."if you've see me, you've SEEN the Father".

Jesus said..>"you believe in God....Believe also in ME"

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus,, being in the form of God

Correct.

Not being God.

Only in the “form” of God.

 

[Behold]

Correct.

Not being God.

Only in the “form” of God.

A.) "Equal" to God.

Be sure to read next time.
It'll be something different for you to try.

= Equal like this..

"God manifested in the Flesh"...as the Virgin born, God - Man

 

[Episkopos]

Hey Epi...it's an interesting theory, the Shema missing 'vav' theory. And it would make your Binitarian stance very plausible indeed. And then you would have to address other areas of extensive scripture to see if all 'fell' into place easily and in harmony like completing a jig-saw puzzle without brute forcing it left with ragged edges and tabs and pieces left over without a home in the process......

....On quite a different topic and somehow I'm thinking it has a connection to your topic and this thread in general.

And since you are in Canada. I've had a Life Insurance policy account with some folks in Toronto for over 35 years now. After 2 months of headache they finally fixed a critical error of not processing my premium payments and posting them in my account.

Ironically, the initial cause of my engagement with them before this critical fix is back again after the fix. No, it's not a riddle.

The initial symptom of a potential problem that evolved into non-payment occurred weeks before. I thought their accounting and billing software has/had errors that I at least experienced that I now know does not apply to me or affect my account.

My voice began when I went online to see a caution or warning about a billing segment stopped, and to call to get it restarted. I reckoned I would have future issues if I did not fix it immediately. Well clearing this caution note which they did for me, caused the non-payment problem a couple of weeks or so later. I will now leave things alone as they were.....as they know their software and I do not, looking in from the outside of things..

Great week to you Epi....

Hey brother. I'm frankly surprised at your openness. Thanks my friend. I hope all goes well for you.

Blessings <><

 

[APAK]

"God manifested in the Flesh"

"And the Word was God"

"Jesus is the Word made flesh".

"And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us"

"Jesus,, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be Equal with God"""

Jesus said 'I and my Father are One"

Jesus said.."if you've see me, you've SEEN the Father".

Jesus said..>"you believe in God....Believe also in ME"

Behold ..I see you are digging a deeper hole than before. One day you might want to get up out it and back to the surface and see things in a clearer perspective. Like seeing things in context and not just in individual words or even verses....list and lists of parts of scripture do not impression me nor should them. What if I did the same as you without providing an ounce of research and explanation about the theme of this thread, this all important subject about the Creed that counts towards, as one important ingredient to life eternal.

Why don't you begin to explain on-topic, the Creed for me and others so we can then understand you better?

 

[APAK]

Hey brother. I'm frankly surprised at your openness. Thanks my friend. I hope all goes well for you.

Blessings <><

no problems here bro....and you are welcome

 

[Behold]

Behold ..I see you are digging a deeper hole than before.

Jesus is God in the Flesh.

God became one of us, to save all of us.

Jesus is "Emmanuel", which means "God with us".

That's not a "Hole", as you strangely define it, APAK.

That's... JESUS = the "WORD was God" in john 1, ....who created the world in John 1:10,... who upholds all things by His power in Colossians 1:16...... who died on the Cross for the sin of the world , in John 3:16, and John 12:32


Just read a dime store Bible, and believe it.
Its really that simple, APAK.
Really.

 

[Behold]

Why don't you begin to explain on-topic, the Creed for me and others so we can then understand you better?

Let me be clear.

I'm not into Mary, Visions of Mary, Church Father's, Creeds, Denomination, Greek Texts, Concordances, What the Pope or Moroni said, Holy Relics, or UFOs., tho I have been Seminary Trained and that includes "manuscript evidence".

"extant Greek texts" ?
"The Gospel of Mary Magdalene"
Yeah, been there.
= No thanks.

I am strictly A HOLY BIBLE = BELIEVER., and that does not mean all of them, as some of them are Theological TRASH.
I would never exchange the word of God for STRONG's concordance, for example.

A.) Not interested

I only Teach "Pauline Theology", as found in the final authority = a real HOLY BIBLE.

God calls His Blood Bought and eternally redeemed to "preach the word"... because "thy word is TRUTH"....
The word of God is found in a Bible.

Believe your bible.

 

[face2face]

Jesus is "Emmanuel", which means "God with us".

Hi Behold,

Dont just read this post - you need to study it for yourself and commit it to prayer.

The question is How was God with us? As you are seeing there are two possibilities presented.

1. God became man
2. God was revealed through a man

The issue with 1. is this:

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. Romans 6:9

For God to become a man and have death's dominion over Him, would mean God was condemned! See the point? You cannot have that which is Holy (A pure Spirit) being condemned or dwell in unclean flesh (touched by death)!

See why God raised up Christ from a long line of sinful people? (Born of a woman)

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness (sameness) of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1-3

Now, there are more questions that come off these two verses, which Paul answers in many places, but for now you would need to explain away this necessary condemnation, if you were to hold to a belief in the first point (1)

F2F

 

[Behold]

1. God became man
2. God was revealed through a man

Jesus said....>"I am from above, and you are from below".

Heaven = Above
Earth = below

So, pre-incarnate Jesus was ... John 1. "the WORD was GOD".

See, God is the FATHER, and Jesus is the WORD, pre-incarnate.

Jesus is the "WORD made flesh"., and the "WORD was God"..... John 1

Jesus is "God manifested (born) in the Flesh". 1 Timothy 3:16

This is why when you read John 1:10 that explains that Jesus MADE THE WORLD.........its easy to understand the : DIETY of CHRIST.

 

[face2face]

Jesus said....>"I am from above, and you are from below".

Heaven = Above
Earth = below

So, pre-incarnate Jesus was ... John 1. "the WORD was GOD".

See, God is the FATHER, and Jesus is the WORD, pre-incarnate.

Jesus is the "WORD made flesh"., and the "WORD was God"..... John 1

This is why when you read John 1:10 that explains that Jesus MADE THE WORLD.........its easy to understand the DIETY of CHRIST.

Hi Behold,
As I said - study those two verses and try to gain an understanding from them.
Leave it with you.
If you have any questions happy to help.
F2F

 

[Behold]

Hi Behold,
As I said - study those two verses and try to gain an understanding from them.

"God manifested in the Flesh".

"God"
"In the Flesh" = Virgin born.

= : Deity of Christ.

 

[face2face]

"God manifested in the Flesh".

Yes that's correct!

Christ, the Son of God, was "born of a woman, made under the law" as per Gal 4:4 -- same flesh as you! (Psa 51:5; Rom 8:3; Eph 2:14) made in all points like his brethren (Heb 2:9, Hebrews 2:14). Christ in his own self (flesh nature) bore our sins in his own body see Isa 53:4; 1Pe 2:24. In other words, he suffered from the effects of Adam's sin in his mortal nature, just as all of Adam's other descendants. "Every spirit (teacher) that professes that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God" (1John 4:2).

Are you confessing Jesus Christ was NOT in the flesh?

Dangerous position you hold to.

F2F

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes that's correct!

Christ, the Son of God, was "born of a woman, made under the law" as per Gal 4:4 -- same flesh as you! (Psa 51:5; Rom 8:3; Eph 2:14) made in all points like his brethren (Heb 2:9, Hebrews 2:14). Christ in his own self (flesh nature) bore our sins in his own body see Isa 53:4; 1Pe 2:24. In other words, he suffered from the effects of Adam's sin in his mortal nature, just as all of Adam's other descendants. "Every spirit (teacher) that professes that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God" (1John 4:2).

Are you confessing Jesus Christ was NOT in the flesh?

Dangerous position you hold to.

F2F

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7

Below are the Greek Scholars who confirm what I have said above .

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)
Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

Are you confessing Jesus Christ was NOT in the flesh?

God was born in the flesh, and when born : "they shall call his Name JESUS"... = "Emmanuel " ".."God with Us".

"God manifested in the Flesh"...... "Jesus"...the God-Man

"Deity of Christ". = God became one of us to save all of us.

 

[ChristisGod]

God was born in the flesh, and when born : "they shall call his Name JESUS"... = "Emmanuel " ".."God with Us".

"God manifested in the Flesh"...... "Jesus"...the God-Man

"Deity of Christ". = God became one of us to save all of us.

And He is forever God in the flesh - fully God, fully man. The spirit of antichrist denies this essential truth.

Many preach a false gospel that He rose a spirit without a human body. His bodily Resurrection/Ascension is central to the gospel and its what the Apostles preached in Acts and their epistles.

 

[amigo de christo]

Scripture calls the Son , God many times . Scripture is my creed

Yep . stick to the bible my friend .

 

[face2face]

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ.

Not so...the Apostle John focused on his flesh nature as does the Apostle Paul.

Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

Okay so you then contradict yourself hmmm.

There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man.

Scripture only states Christ as fully man.

They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

So nothing above is found in the Word of God which is why you dont have any supporting text.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

Let's leave your theological musings for now.

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Notice the focus?

For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. 2 Cor. 5:19

You exegesis assumes God is Christ which takes it well beyond what is taught by the Apostles.

The question you need to ask is "Why was God manifesting Himself "through" Christ in the flesh!"

Try speaking to that in your reply.

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7

Below are the Greek Scholars who confirm what I have said above .

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)
Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

hope this helps !!!

Again, I can only suggest you honor the work of the Apostles and speak to Christ's nature, as they did. I see the type of men you draw on your understanding and faith from which is why I suggest you turn your attention to them.

God manifestation is the theme of Scripture as per Christs own word:

'My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me' John 7:16-18

John testified that "For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit" as Moses predicted in Deut 18:18, concerning the Christ:

'I will put my (Gods) words in his (Jesus) mouth, and he (Jesus) shall speak unto them all that I (God) shall command him. And it shall be, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.'

The fulfillment of this is the Word made Flesh. The Word-Flesh recalled attention to what Moses had written and said:

[48] He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. [49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. John 12:47

'the words of eternal life.'

F2F

 

[face2face]

God was born in the flesh, and when born : "they shall call his Name JESUS"... = "Emmanuel " ".."God with Us".

"God manifested in the Flesh"...... "Jesus"...the God-Man

"Deity of Christ". = God became one of us to save all of us.

As I said, read and study those two verses.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus said....>"I am from above, and you are from below".

Heaven = Above
Earth = below

So, pre-incarnate Jesus was ... John 1. "the WORD was GOD".

See, God is the FATHER, and Jesus is the WORD, pre-incarnate.

Jesus is the "WORD made flesh"., and the "WORD was God"..... John 1

Jesus is "God manifested (born) in the Flesh". 1 Timothy 3:16

This is why when you read John 1:10 that explains that Jesus MADE THE WORLD.........its easy to understand the : DIETY of CHRIST.

Many cannot see the simplicity of this .
God SPOKE . That is how He created all things . HE didnt create HIS WORD and then say DO .
HE simply SPOKE and what was spoken was created by HIS OWN ESSENCE coming forth of HIM in HIS WORDS .
LET there be LIGHT and THERE was light . IT wasnt like GOD was creating a word . RATHER HE simply SPOKE
and it was . JESUS IS the WORD of GOD . GOD IS HIS WORD . its really quite simple .