One Creed to live by and die for...

[Behold]

often unrelated verses aye....that says it all Behold, you do not know scripture

I dont know Scripture?

You mean, "behold According to my Cult theology, what you are stating does not agree with it".

Yes i know, Apek., and that is GOOD, as even tho you can't deal with it, all the other people who read it, see the clarity, the conciseness, the truth in it..
So, the seed is being sown, and those who can hear, get fed.

I dont cut and past, unless its not bible or theology related.
For example, i just cut and pasted some song Lyrics by Lady GAGA, on the LGBTQ Thread.

Otherwise....

You've seen those people who have cut and paste ready to go, by topic, subject?
That's not really anything at all, is it?
Everything i have written in 400+ Threads, and in well over 10,000 posts, im literally writing it as Theology, as im typing it, in that instant, and that includes all the bible verses.
I dont go to online sources to grab some "church father's" theology., and pretend its mine.

I just TEACH Pauline Theology that ive learned a while back, when i was a beginning preacher., and have continued to study and think about, and meditate on.

Everytime i go to a forum, and finally leave it, the members there think they "always knew that term Pauline Theology" because i stated it so much.

Its that interesting? And that is a good thing, as until a person is a student of Paul's Letters, they are not a real student of the NT.
Really.

You should study : Romans 3:21-28....and Romans 5, and Hebrews 10.... and do what Hebrews 13:9 says to do, until they are like a tattoo on the inside of your mind., as that is a good grounding in Pauling Theology that Wikipedia can't help you with, Apak.

Paul's Theology does not change, but the person who is deep into it, does........so, that is my experience.

Also, when you see me post a lot of verses, concerning Jesus as the God man.......these verses are from memory.

The reason i line them up so well, is because that is how you teach them so that the real student can SEE IT.

 

[face2face]

They see beauty and majesty in their IDOL.

Another quandary is why the 2nd person prayed at all. This is complicated by the fact that he never prayed to the 3rd, to the one who gave him existence. Given the order of creation, you think the 3rd would be called the 2nd and the 3rd would be called the 2nd.

Another problem is the inequality of power distribution among the gods. Given that Jesus was given ALL authority on heaven and Earth, it does not leave much authority for the 3rd. A god with no authority is not much of a god. Not to worry. Dualism to the rescue. The importance of Jesus being given ALL authority is offset by the claim they are all 1.

Never forget the mighty power of dualism, side stepping the shackles of the mutual exclusivity principle of logic. Having other gods before the Father is now OK. God is no longer a jealous god. Yea but Jesus taught us to pray only to the Father. That matters for nothing cause there was this guy, Thomas, he called Jesus God. So, it doesn't matter what Jesus did or said - except when it does. The Bible is very clear on this - except when there is "mystery" on top of "mystery." Dualism. The Dr Seuss of Theology.

Wrangler, when you dive into this complexity there is no possible way of finding truth, because as you say, everything leads to an unknowable mystery. This is contrary to what the Apostles taught concerning the mystery being fully revealed and knowable.

Here is a greater issue in my mind. There are millions upon millions of people who have accepted this “mystery” as being unknowable. How do you convince a person who is willing to except “nothingness”, over the fullness of knowledge which is found in Christ Jesus?

There are the ignorantly deceived, and then there are those willingly deceived. I get the feeling those in this thread fall into the later category, as I sense they accept a blind unknowable faith, one which leads them to an abyss.

I can tell from Behold’s & Bread’s posts they have not searched the Scripture for themselves. I’ve also noticed how difficult it is for them to enter the Word and allow it to reveal understanding. They project onto it, rather than allowing the Word to project (it's light) onto them. The opening of Gods Word gives light, which is a rare thing in this forum.

I must say on this subject, it’s a comfort to read both you and Apak’s words – very insightful!

F2F

 

[face2face]

That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

John 14:2-4
My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”

WHERE I AM....That is, 'in my Father's house'. More specifically what God and Jesus have been preparing for the past 2000 years! Jesus will sit on David's throne as per the promise of 2 Samuel 7:13,14, which will be in Jerusalem as per Isa 2:2-4; 9:6,7; Luke 1:32,33. These are called prophecies which are unfulfilled.

Matt. 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great IN HEAVEN, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Correct as per 1 Peter 1:4,5

to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (that is, upon Christ's return and appearing in the earth!)

Luke 12:33-34
Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure IN THE HEAVENS that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Correct, the verse before shows that Kingdom on earth will be given to the Saints

“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

God is not going to give you Heaven!

"The meek shall inherit the Earth" Matthew 5:5

Phil. 3:20
But our citizenship is IN HEAVEN, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

True, FROM IT you await the return of the King and the establishment of his throne on Earth.

So what you have done is establish our reward is being kept in Heaven, the source and origin of that reward is from Heaven but the nature of the reward is eternal life on Earth.

The Kingdom is said to be "of" Heaven, as this is the direction Christ is heading....He is coming from Heaven with New Jerusalem in his mind!

Your Luke 12 quote was a good one - you just needed to read on a bit to find greater truth.

37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Hope that helps
F2F

 

[face2face]

You're not listening.

Almighty God clearly states, "I am the alpha and the Omega" in Rev. 1:8.
The Son, Jesus Christ, says, "I am the alpha and the Omega" in Rev. 22:13.

Christ IS the Savior - and He IS God.
Why do YOU feel that He can only be ONE ot the other?

What a pathetic little god you've invented for yourself . . .

You still dont understand.

Revelation 1:8 is the glorified body of Christ made up all the Saints - from what you are saying you are not part of the Alpha & Omega? Is that how you see it?

Take verse 7

“Look, he (Jesus) is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth (note the Kingdom ) “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Who are the clouds Bread?

Answer:

 

[Wrangler]

Here is a greater issue in my mind. There are millions upon millions of people who have accepted this “mystery” as being unknowable. How do you convince a person who is willing to except “nothingness”, over the fullness of knowledge which is found in Christ Jesus?

I doubt as many accept this “mystery” as one might think. Most people are not deep thinkers. This is why indoctrination and propaganda works so well to the unsuspecting.

 

[Wrangler]

I must say on this subject, it’s a comfort to read both you and Apak’s words – very insightful!

Same here. Sadly, other great poster have not been around in a while.

 

[BreadOfLife]

WHERE I AM....That is, 'in my Father's house'. More specifically what God and Jesus have been preparing for the past 2000 years! Jesus will sit on David's throne as per the promise of 2 Samuel 7:13,14, which will be in Jerusalem as per Isa 2:2-4; 9:6,7; Luke 1:32,33. These are called prophecies which are unfulfilled.


Correct as per 1 Peter 1:4,5

to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (that is, upon Christ's return and appearing in the earth!)


Correct, the verse before shows that Kingdom on earth will be given to the Saints

“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

God is not going to give you Heaven!

"The meek shall inherit the Earth" Matthew 5:5


True, FROM IT you await the return of the King and the establishment of his throne on Earth.

So what you have done is establish our reward is being kept in Heaven, the source and origin of that reward is from Heaven but the nature of the reward is eternal life on Earth.

The Kingdom is said to be "of" Heaven, as this is the direction Christ is heading....He is coming from Heaven with New Jerusalem in his mind!

Your Luke 12 quote was a good one - you just needed to read on a bit to find greater truth.

37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Hope that helps
F2F

Scriptural acrobatics . . .

In order to fit YOUR bizarre theology, you have to make the Word of God into a “Book of Riddles” in order for it all to make sense.

- The elders are N HEAVEN, taking our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8).
- We see the souls of the martyrs are shown under the altar IN HEAVEN (Rev. 6:9).
Let’s see what further gymnastics are needed for you to explain these verses away . . .

THANK GOD for the simplicity of the Gospel message.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You still dont understand.

Revelation 1:8 is the glorified body of Christ made up all the Saints - from what you are saying you are not part of the Alpha & Omega? Is that how you see it?

Take verse 7

“Look, he (Jesus) is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth (note the Kingdom) “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Who are the clouds Bread?

Answer:

This verse has a polyvalent verse – similar to Rev. 12:1 and others.

When Jesus ascended, the angels told His disciples that He would return in the same way that He ascended – in the clouds. The clouds also represent the multitude of armies that He will return with. – as well as the shekinah glory of God (Rev. 11:14).

And I am not the Alpha and the Omega – and neither are YOU.
Only GOD is - and that includes the Son..

 

[Illuminator]

They see beauty and majesty in their IDOL.

Another quandary is why the 2nd person prayed at all. This is complicated by the fact that he never prayed to the 3rd, to the one who gave him existence. Given the order of creation, you think the 3rd would be called the 2nd and the 3rd would be called the 2nd.

Another problem is the inequality of power distribution among the gods. Given that Jesus was given ALL authority on heaven and Earth, it does not leave much authority for the 3rd. A god with no authority is not much of a god. Not to worry. Dualism to the rescue. The importance of Jesus being given ALL authority is offset by the claim they are all 1.

Never forget the mighty power of dualism, side stepping the shackles of the mutual exclusivity principle of logic. Having other gods before the Father is now OK. God is no longer a jealous god. Yea but Jesus taught us to pray only to the Father. That matters for nothing cause there was this guy, Thomas, he called Jesus God. So, it doesn't matter what Jesus did or said - except when it does. The Bible is very clear on this - except when there is "mystery" on top of "mystery." Dualism. The Dr Seuss of Theology.

Modalism is a straw man fallacy to the truth of the Trinity. You are just recycling an old heresy in a different wrapper.

The early Christians were quick to spot new heresies. In the third century, Sabellius, a Libyan priest who was staying at Rome, invented a new one. He claimed there is only one person in the Godhead, so that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one person with different “offices,” rather than three persons who are one being in the Godhead, as the orthodox position holds.

Of course, people immediately recognized that Sabellius’s teaching contradicted the historic faith of the Church, and he was quickly excommunicated. His heresy became known as Sabellianism, Modalism, and Patripassianism. It was called Sabellianism after its founder, Modalism after the three modes or roles which it claimed the one person of the Trinity occupied, and Patripassianism after its implication that the person of the Father (Pater-) suffered (-passion) on the cross when Jesus died.

Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28; 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26; 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).
source

 

[Wrangler]

Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father

As opposed to your nonsensical assertion that the Messiah talking to his God is somehow nonsense? Explain how your assertion makes sense.

 

[face2face]

Scriptural acrobatics . . .

In order to fit YOUR bizarre theology, you have to make the Word of God into a “Book of Riddles” in order for it all to make sense.

- The elders are N HEAVEN, taking our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8).
- We see the souls of the martyrs are shown under the altar IN HEAVEN (Rev. 6:9).
Let’s see what further gymnastics are needed for you to explain these verses away . . .

THANK GOD for the simplicity of the Gospel message.

I can see you are not able to discern the Word, even getting you to speak to the text is laborious task!
Be on your way!

 

[Wrangler]

Just came across this verse for everyone's consideration. Love different translations.

The story of how faith was credited to Abraham was not recorded for him and him alone, but was written for all of us who would one day be credited for having faith in God, the One who raised Jesus our Lord from the realm of the dead.
Romans 4:23-24 (VOICE)

 

[APAK]

Just came across this verse for everyone's consideration. Love different translations.

The story of how faith was credited to Abraham was not recorded for him and him alone, but was written for all of us who would one day be credited for having faith in God, the One who raised Jesus our Lord from the realm of the dead.
Romans 4:23-24 (VOICE)

Great version for understanding, P.

And in the CEV

(Rom 4:23) " Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was counted to him; "
(Rom 4:24) " but for our sake also, to whom it shall be counted, who believe in Him that raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. "

And the Easy-To-Read version:

(Rom 4:23) These words ("he was accepted") were written not only for Abraham.
(Rom 4:24) They were also written for us. God will also accept us because we believe. We believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from death.

 

[Wrangler]

It's funny how those who believe in the other creed project, claim we are taking a few verses in isolation.

 

[APAK]

It's funny how those who believe in the other creed project, claim we are taking a few verses in isolation.

I would like to challenge 'those' that think this way come forward and explain themselves. It is all 'they' do, cherry-pick and JUST look at the words in A verse to explain and build their convincing argument(s) - see what I've got here, the gotcha verse and the words in it. If it were not a grave subject it would be LOL and LOF for me.

Very ignorant and childish on 'their' part is what I have to say. This is not a scripture-verse technique that the Spirit of God would lead them in.

Are 'they' even aware they are actually doing this 'pull out' verse technique to discuss the word of God? I wonder if any of these cotton/ cherry pickers have even been to and in a Bible study forum or class? Very few I would imagine.

You see this thread and others like it, challenge people's faith right to its core and Creed (intended), into the human heart. It will always cause friction, denial, even hate until maybe one day, 'they' blindly take it on faith to start to see 'the other side.' Most won't even consider doing this, as it is too much trouble, or not really worth it. And then we know was types of people we are really dealing with, aye?!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I can see you are not able to discern the Word, even getting you to speak to the text is laborious task!
Be on your way!

When a confuse person like YOU takes a simple Biblical message and twists it to your own destruction - it reminds me of Peter's warning . . .

2 Pet. 3:16
There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[Illuminator]

Who and what would you rather believe, the one creed of Moses and Jesus, or the several creeds formed out of extra-scriptural and pagan Hellenic sources by men of their own self-serving pious cloth?

The Nicene/ Constantinopolitan Creed, with references to Holy Scripture:

• I believe in one God, (Deuteronomy. 6:4, Mark 12:29, 12:32, Ephesians 4:6)
• Father (Matthew 6: 9, Malachi 2:10) Almighty, (2 Corinthians 6:18; Genesis 35:11)
• Creator of heaven and earth, (Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 44:24, Revelation 4:11)
• of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 11:3)
• And in one Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Corinthians 8:6, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 4:5)
• the Only Begotten Son of God, (John 3:16, John 1:18)
• Begotten of the Father before all ages. (Colossians 1:15, 1:17, John 1:1-2, Revelation 1:8)
• Light from Light, (John 1:4-5, 1:9, 8:12, 2 Corinthians 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
• true God from true God, (John 1: 1-2, 1 John 5:20)
• Begotten, not made, (John 1:14, Hebrews 1:5)
• Of one essence with the Father; (John 10: 30, 1 John 1:5, John 8:12, Colossians 2:9)
• Through whom all things were made. (John 1: 1-3, 10, 14, Colossians 1:15-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 11:36, Hebrews 1:10)
• Who for us men and for our salvation (Matthew 1:21, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Colossians 1:13-14, 1Timothy 2:4-5, Acts 4:12)
• Came down from heaven, (John 3:13, 3:31, 6: 33, 35, 38, 6:51)
• And was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:27, 34-35, Matthew 1:18, Romans 1:3)
• and became man. (John 1:14, Hebrews 2:14, Philippians 2:6,7)
• Crucified for us (1 Peter 2:24, 1Corinthians 15:3, Acts 2:36)
• under Pontius Pilate, (Mark 15:15, Matthew 27:2,26)
• He suffered (Mark 8:31, Matthew 16:21)
• and was buried, (Matthew 27:59-60, Mark 15:46)
• Rising on the third day (Mark 9:31, 16:9, Acts 10:40, Luke 24:5-7, 1 Corinthians 15: 3-4)
• In accordance with the Scriptures. (Luke 24:45-46, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
• He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9)
• and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, 1Peter 3:21-22)
• He will come again in glory (Mark 13:26, Matthew 24:27, John 14:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Acts 1:10-11, Revelation 1:7)
• to judge the living and the dead (Matthew 16:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 4:5, John 5:22, Acts 10:42)
• and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:11)
• And in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8, John 14: 17, 26),
• The Lord (Acts 5: 3-5, 2 Corinthians 3:17),
• The giver of life, (John 6:63, 2 Corinthians 3:6)
• Who proceeds from the Father (John 15:26)
• Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, (Matthew 3: 16- 17, Matthew 28: 19, 2 Corinthians 3:8)
• Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11, Ephesians 3:5, 1Samuel 19:20, Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
• And in one (Ephesians 4:4, Matthew 16:15),
• holy (Ephesians 1:4, 5:27, 1Peter 2:5,9),
• catholic (Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15)
• and apostolic (Acts 2:42, Ephesians 2:20) Church (Matthew 16:18, Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 10:17, Colossians 1:18, 1Timothy 3:15, Hebrews 12:23).
• I acknowledge one baptism (Ephesians 4:5, Galatians 3:27, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Matthew 28: 18,19)
• for the remission of sins (Colossians 2:12-13, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38, Romans 6: 3,4 and 1Peter 3:21)
• I look forward to the resurrection of the dead (Romans 6:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, John 11:24, 1Corinthians 15: 12-49 )
• and the life of the age to come (2 Peter 3:13, Mark 10: 29-30, Revelation 21:1, John 3:16).

Amen

 

[APAK]

The Nicene/ Constantinopolitan Creed, with references to Holy Scripture:

• I believe in one God, (Deuteronomy. 6:4, Mark 12:29, 12:32, Ephesians 4:6)
• Father (Matthew 6: 9, Malachi 2:10) Almighty, (2 Corinthians 6:18; Genesis 35:11)
• Creator of heaven and earth, (Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 44:24, Revelation 4:11)
• of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 11:3)
• And in one Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Corinthians 8:6, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 4:5)
• the Only Begotten Son of God, (John 3:16, John 1:18)
• Begotten of the Father before all ages. (Colossians 1:15, 1:17, John 1:1-2, Revelation 1:8)
• Light from Light, (John 1:4-5, 1:9, 8:12, 2 Corinthians 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
• true God from true God, (John 1: 1-2, 1 John 5:20)
• Begotten, not made, (John 1:14, Hebrews 1:5)
• Of one essence with the Father; (John 10: 30, 1 John 1:5, John 8:12, Colossians 2:9)
• Through whom all things were made. (John 1: 1-3, 10, 14, Colossians 1:15-17, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 11:36, Hebrews 1:10)
• Who for us men and for our salvation (Matthew 1:21, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Colossians 1:13-14, 1Timothy 2:4-5, Acts 4:12)
• Came down from heaven, (John 3:13, 3:31, 6: 33, 35, 38, 6:51)
• And was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:27, 34-35, Matthew 1:18, Romans 1:3)
• and became man. (John 1:14, Hebrews 2:14, Philippians 2:6,7)
• Crucified for us (1 Peter 2:24, 1Corinthians 15:3, Acts 2:36)
• under Pontius Pilate, (Mark 15:15, Matthew 27:2,26)
• He suffered (Mark 8:31, Matthew 16:21)
• and was buried, (Matthew 27:59-60, Mark 15:46)
• Rising on the third day (Mark 9:31, 16:9, Acts 10:40, Luke 24:5-7, 1 Corinthians 15: 3-4)
• In accordance with the Scriptures. (Luke 24:45-46, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
• He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9)
• and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, 1Peter 3:21-22)
• He will come again in glory (Mark 13:26, Matthew 24:27, John 14:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Acts 1:10-11, Revelation 1:7)
• to judge the living and the dead (Matthew 16:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1, 1 Peter 4:5, John 5:22, Acts 10:42)
• and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:11)
• And in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8, John 14: 17, 26),
• The Lord (Acts 5: 3-5, 2 Corinthians 3:17),
• The giver of life, (John 6:63, 2 Corinthians 3:6)
• Who proceeds from the Father (John 15:26)
• Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, (Matthew 3: 16- 17, Matthew 28: 19, 2 Corinthians 3:8)
• Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11, Ephesians 3:5, 1Samuel 19:20, Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
• And in one (Ephesians 4:4, Matthew 16:15),
• holy (Ephesians 1:4, 5:27, 1Peter 2:5,9),
• catholic (Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15)
• and apostolic (Acts 2:42, Ephesians 2:20) Church (Matthew 16:18, Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 10:17, Colossians 1:18, 1Timothy 3:15, Hebrews 12:23).
• I acknowledge one baptism (Ephesians 4:5, Galatians 3:27, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Matthew 28: 18,19)
• for the remission of sins (Colossians 2:12-13, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38, Romans 6: 3,4 and 1Peter 3:21)
• I look forward to the resurrection of the dead (Romans 6:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, John 11:24, 1Corinthians 15: 12-49 )
• and the life of the age to come (2 Peter 3:13, Mark 10: 29-30, Revelation 21:1, John 3:16).

Amen

I see you are of the latter camp. A die-hard club member of a religion born out of the ego and selfishness of men that tried(s) to supplant the word of God.

And another lister of verses that do not impress as I believe you do not understand or cannot explain what you have listed alongside parts of your Hellenistic Creed, that is surely not Monotheistic.

And to deny that the Father did not create and birthed his Son, is unforgiveable. And you make the Son uncreated as you cite John 1:14 and Hebrews 1:5. These verses are completely unrelated. Explain these verses for me, as I would like to hear your take on them?

Explain the pagan process of incarnation for me? It is not a part of the word of God, and you must know this already. You will have to go to the Greek, Hellenistic writings to find it.