Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

[JimKnox]

o. "Earth" in Revelation 3:10 is Greek γη = "land."

o. There was no concept of a SPHERICAL PLANET EARTH in Biblical times.

o. The ancients called the eight other planets "wandering stars" (Jude 1:13 ), having no idea they are dark planets lit up by the sun (as are we).

 

[The Light]

"Trumpet of God does not mean God is blowing the trumpet, rather it means God commands that it be blown:

Revelation 8:7 = first trump ("the first angel blew his trumpet")
Revelation 11:15 = seventh/last trump

The trump of God is the voice of God.

The last trump has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The last trump is the last trump that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

 

[WPM]

The trump of God is the voice of God.

The last trump has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The last trump is the last trump that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

Says who? You guys make it up as you go.

 

[ewq1938]

The trump of God is the voice of God.

The last trump has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The last trump is the last trump that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

The last trump is the last of 7 trumps, sounded by an angel. The NT never mentions the feast of trumpets as being a part of any Christian prophecy.

 

[rebuilder 454]

rebuilder 454 noted:

<bible was written by the Holy Spirit>
It was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit (2Peter 1:21).

"Keep you from the hour of trial" (Revelation 3:10) refers to the coming judgments, which will be avoided by the rapture.

<He created it>
"Emptied Himself" (Philippians 2:7) means Jesus set aside his Godhood. No telling what that involved.

In Biblical times:
o. No concept of planet earth, Greek text says γη = "land."
o No concept they were revolving around the sun.
o Rather they conceived the sun revolving around them.

Then don't ever call it the word of God since you believe it is not.

You actually defend the notion that Jesus did not know earth is a planet?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The last trump is the last of 7 trumps, sounded by an angel. The NT never mentions the feast of trumpets as being a part of any Christian prophecy.

The cross took place in the timing of the feasts.
The pouring out of the Holy Spirit also was at the timing of the feasts .

I would not be so quick to discount Gods time clock and markers.

 

[rebuilder 454]

IMO:
o. One future rapture of believers (Revelation 14:14-16).
o. One future coming to earth of Jesus (Revelation 19:11-21).
o. Then 1000-year reign of Jesus (Revelation 20:6).
o Then new heavens and earth (Revelation 21:122:21).
o Then no more tears (Revelation 7:17, 21:4).

The gathering of rev 14;14 can not possibly be rhe rapture of tge church.

The Church has Jesus as our firstfruits.
The gathering of rev 14;14 has 144,000 ETHNIC JEWS as firstfruits.
It can only be a Jewish gathering.

Wheat firstfruits preceds wheat harvest.

That wheat harvestvwill never have grapes following it.
IOW, Rev 14;14 can ONLY BE a Jewis main harvest, which is following the Jewish firstfruits.

Another way to put it is that the Jewish firstfruits of rev 14:1-5 GUARANTEES the jewish main harvest immediately follows.

 

[JimKnox]

The gathering of rev 14;14 can not possibly be rhe rapture of tge church.

The Church has Jesus as our firstfruits.
The gathering of rev 14;14 has 144,000 ETHNIC JEWS as firstfruits.
It can only be a Jewish gathering.

Wheat firstfruits preceds wheat harvest.

That wheat harvestvwill never have grapes following it.
IOW, Rev 14;14 can ONLY BE a Jewis main harvest, which is following the Jewish firstfruits.

Another way to put it is that the Jewish firstfruits of rev 14:1-5 GUARANTEES the jewish main harvest immediately follows.

JSYK:
No such thing as wheat FIRST harvest followed by MAIN harvest.
Obviously you never lived in farm country.

 

[The Light]

JSYK:
No such thing as wheat FIRST harvest followed by MAIN harvest.
Obviously you never lived in farm country.

I don't think that's what he said.

He is pointing out that the Church is the wheat harvest.

Then it starts over. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming.

The 144,000 first fruits of twelve tribes are followed by the Jewish main harvest. If first fruits are pumpkins, the main harvest is pumpkins. Since first fruits are 144,000 Jews, the main harvest is Jews.

BTW, this harvest occurs at the 6th seal.

Also, first fruits are the first ripened of the harvest that are gathered and presented by the priest to God.

 

[The Light]

The last trump is the last of 7 trumps, sounded by an angel. The NT never mentions the feast of trumpets as being a part of any Christian prophecy.

All the Jews knew what the last trump was as it is blown every year on the Feast of Trumpets. This is likely common knowledge among the Christians in that day also as this was a feast of God.

Did you read Philippians where Paul explains about the last trump? He says that many are troubled and have confronted him about his comments regarding the last trump. Be not confused, dismayed or left in disarray brethren. Your confusion about the last trump will be cleared up many decades from now when John writes the book of Revelation. He will answer all these questions. In the meantime, stop bothering me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The trump of God is the voice of God.

The last trump has nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. The last trump is the last trump that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

And where do you find that in scripture? At the last trumpet Paul said we (the church) will all be changed and will put on bodily immortality (1 Cor 15:51-54). You believe mortal life will go on in the world for 7 years after than and then another 1000+ years after that. So, at which trumpet will those who die during that supposed 7 years or during the supposed future 1,000+ years will the believers who live during that time be changed to put on bodily immortality? The trumpet after the last trumpet?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The gathering of rev 14;14 can not possibly be rhe rapture of tge church.

Yet, it is. And, as usual, you did nothing convincing to back up your claim.

The Church has Jesus as our firstfruits.
The gathering of rev 14;14 has 144,000 ETHNIC JEWS as firstfruits.

Where does Revelation 14:14 mention that? Nowhere. You're making things up.

It can only be a Jewish gathering.

Why? You just make claims and do literally nothing to back them up.

Wheat firstfruits preceds wheat harvest.

Where does Revelation 14:14-16 say anything about this?

That wheat harvestvwill never have grapes following it.
IOW, Rev 14;14 can ONLY BE a Jewis main harvest, which is following the Jewish firstfruits.

Another way to put it is that the Jewish firstfruits of rev 14:1-5 GUARANTEES the jewish main harvest immediately follows.

Where is that explained? You have quite an imagination.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Says who? You guys make it up as you go.

The pre-trib rapture theory is just nothing but a collection of random thoughts that come from people's imaginations. They try to relate unrelated scriptures to fit with what they have imagined. They use their active imaginations to dream up scenarios that are nowhere taught in scripture. It's truly unbelievable to witness.

 

[rebuilder 454]

JSYK:
No such thing as wheat FIRST harvest followed by MAIN harvest.
Obviously you never lived in farm country.

JSYK

In the Bible, the wheat harvest first fruits refer to the earliest portion of the wheat crop that the Israelites presented to God as a holy offering during the Feast of Weeks (also called Shavuot or Pentecost)

****Meaning and PracticeThe Offering: ****
Celebrated roughly seven weeks after the barley harvest, the festival of the wheat first fruits involved baking two leavened loaves from the new wheat flour and waving them before the Lord. [1] (https://christianquestions.com/bible-questions/firstfruits/)Trust in Provision: By giving the very first and best portion of the wheat crop to the priests before eating any themselves, the Israelites acknowledged God as the true source of their harvest

*********Faith in the Future:**********
The Hebrew word for firstfruits (bikkurim) translates to a "promise to come," acting as an outward sign of trust that God would successfully provide the remainder of the agricultural yield. [1] (Firstfruits: A Biblical Celebration of God’s Provision - Free Life Chapel)

Most here omit a key pillar in end times.
( firstfruits).
Once we understand firstfruits, the parables and revelation are both understood, as well as the three harvest people groups of Gods gathering.

 

[The Light]

And where do you find that in scripture?

Exodus 19
19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

At the last trumpet Paul said we (the church) will all be changed and will put on bodily immortality (1 Cor 15:51-54)

I see nothing about the Church in 1 Cor 15. 1 Cor 15 is about the gathering from heaven and earth.

You believe mortal life will go on in the world for 7 years after than and then another 1000+ years after that.

Yes of course. That is exactly what the Word of God says.

So, at which trumpet will those who die during that supposed 7 years or during the supposed future 1,000+ years will the believers who live during that time be changed to put on bodily immortality?

Supposed??????

The trumpet after the last trumpet?

No. But there is a trumpet after the 7th trumpet blown by an angel which you claim is the last trumpet. FYI, the last trumpet is blown on the Feast of Trumpets

 

[PeterAndroz]

All the Jews knew what the last trump was as it is blown every year on the Feast of Trumpets. This is likely common knowledge among the Christians in that day also as this was a feast of God.

Did you read Philippians where Paul explains about the last trump? He says that many are troubled and have confronted him about his comments regarding the last trump. Be not confused, dismayed or left in disarray brethren. Your confusion about the last trump will be cleared up many decades from now when John writes the book of Revelation. He will answer all these questions. In the meantime, stop bothering me.

What verses from Philippians are you referring to ?
I would like to read them

 

[ewq1938]

All the Jews knew what the last trump was as it is blown every year on the Feast of Trumpets.

And Christians know what the last trump is in Christian prophecy, not anything to do with a non-Christian feast.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And Christians know what the last trump is in Christian prophecy, not anything to do with a non-Christian feast.

Jesus and his disciples were Jews.
The conversations they had did not center on any non Jewish feasts, or markers, or timetables.

Both Pentecost and passover JEWISH events coincided with prophecy.

It is Unmistakable that the feast are tied into prophecy..

 

[The Light]

And Christians know what the last trump is in Christian prophecy, not anything to do with a non-Christian feast.

The last trump is blown every year on the Feast of Trumpets.

When Paul wrote about the last trump it was no mystery. It is blown on the fall harvest feast. There is seed time and harvest.

Your beliefs have the Church on the earth during the wrath of God when we are clearly told that we are not appointed to wrath.

And of course, John wrote Revelation decades after Paul wrote about the last trump. And yet not one clarification by Paul was necessary.

 

[Davy]

The last trump is blown every year on the Feast of Trumpets.

When Paul wrote about the last trump it was no mystery. It is blown on the fall harvest feast. There is seed time and harvest.

Your beliefs have the Church on the earth during the wrath of God when we are clearly told that we are not appointed to wrath.

And of course, John wrote Revelation decades after Paul wrote about the last trump. And yet not one clarification by Paul was necessary.

And you are thinking with your FLESH, thinking that Christ's Salvation is about our flesh when it is not. I have to laugh at those who just BYPASS what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 about the change to the "spiritual body" at the "twinkling of an eye" on that day. God's Wrath upon the wicked will in no way harm those in Christ, and can be right in the middle of it, just like Shadrach, Meshech, and Abed-nego who were in the hot fiery furnace heated seven times hotter than necessary, and Christ was with them, and they came out of it without their clothes even smelling of smoke (Dan.3).