Only Those Who Do the Will of God Will Enter the Kingdom

[Behold]

You follow Paul then, as you're from the Pauline sect and deluded deceived by the devil as his 'tares' planted in you.

There is no such thing as a "Pauline sect".
There is just the Doctrine of Paul, given to Paul by Jesus for the NT Church, as found in Paul's Epistles.

Including this teaching.

Contemporary English Version
You must follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

Literal Standard Version
Become followers of me, as I also [am] of Christ.

New International Version
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

New Living Translation
And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.

English Standard Version
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

Berean Standard Bible
You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.

King James Bible
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

Every orthodox Christian on this forum will affirm the words of Paul, "neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but keeping God's commands;" the point where they will differ is the MEANS whereby that occurs : if God's plan for serving Him in the ew Covenant was "oldness of the letter [of the Law]", and not "newness of the Spirit [of Grace]",

Circumcision or uncircumcision is shorthand for referring to Jews or Gentiles, so Paul was essentially saying that what matters is not whether someone is a Jew or a Gentle, but whether they are obeying the commands of God.

God has not commanded any that was not in accordance with His Spirit or with grace, so there is something deficient about following the letter that is not correctly doing what God has commanded. God’s law was given in order to teach us how to know him by being a doer of His character traits and God’s character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Psalms 129:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments and there are many other verses that affirm this.

If following the letter referred correctly following God’s instructions and that leads to death, then that would mean that God would be misleading us and that would contradict the many verses that say that following God’s instructions leads to eternal life, so again there must be something deficient about the letter. In John 5:39-40, Jesus said that they searched the Scriptures because they thought that in them they might find eternal life, and they testify about him, yet they don’t come to him that they might have life. So eternal life can be found in the Scriptures and they were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and enter into a relationship with him for eternal life.

God’s way is the way to know Him and Jesus by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law. The problem is that someone can go through the motions of obeying God’s law while neglecting to be a doer of the character traits of God that it was given in order to teach us how to embody, and thus neglect to know God and Jesus, which is the letter that leads to death. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. In Philippians 3:8, Paul had been in a similar situation where he had been obeying God’s law, but not while being forced on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law and counted that as rubbish.

how were the Gentile believers deemed "doers of the Torah" (and, based on that righteousness, headed for justification on the Day of Judgment) while neither possessing nor knowing Torah (Ro 2:6-16, 26 27, 7:1)?

Not having the Torah refers to not having physical possession of a Torah scroll, but it does not refer to not knowing the Torah because Gentiles are still doers of it (Romans 2:13-14).

 

[GracePeace]

Circumcision or uncircumcision is shorthand for referring to Jews or Gentiles, so Paul was essentially saying that what matters is not whether someone is a Jew or a Gentle, but whether they are obeying the commands of God.

God has not commanded any that was not in accordance with His Spirit or with grace, so there is something deficient about following the letter that is not correctly doing what God has commanded. God’s law was given in order to teach us how to know him by being a doer of His character traits and God’s character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Psalms 129:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments and there are many other verses that affirm this.

If following the letter referred correctly following God’s instructions and that leads to death, then that would mean that God would be misleading us and that would contradict the many verses that say that following God’s instructions leads to eternal life, so again there must be something deficient about the letter. In John 5:39-40, Jesus said that they searched the Scriptures because they thought that in them they might find eternal life, and they testify about him, yet they don’t come to him that they might have life. So eternal life can be found in the Scriptures and they were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and enter into a relationship with him for eternal life.

God’s way is the way to know Him and Jesus by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law. The problem is that someone can go through the motions of obeying God’s law while neglecting to be a doer of the character traits of God that it was given in order to teach us how to embody, and thus neglect to know God and Jesus, which is the letter that leads to death. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness. In Philippians 3:8, Paul had been in a similar situation where he had been obeying God’s law, but not while being forced on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law and counted that as rubbish.

Please be more concise. I don't know what you're saying.

Not having the Torah refers to not having physical possession of a Torah scroll, but it does not refer to not knowing the Torah because Gentiles are still doers of it (Romans 2:13-14).

Ro 7:1 distinguishes Jewish believers as knowing the Law--meaning Paul knows Gentile believers don't know the Law.

Yes, they do the Law--this all the more proves Ro 3:31 and 8:4, etc, etc, that being obedient to Grace makes you fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law without being under Law.

 

[PS95]

Please be more concise. I don't know what you're saying.

Ro 7:1 distinguishes Jewish believers as knowing the Law--meaning Paul knows Gentile believers don't know the Law.

Yes, they do the Law--this all the more proves Ro 3:31 and 8:4, etc, etc, that being obedient to Grace makes you fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law without being under Law.

Hi GP, forgive me if I repeat someone- I have not read all of this thread.
From what I have seen on this forum- there are some who actually teach that what we do after we come to Christ is irrelevant to salvation. I do not agree with that at all.
A genuine believer's heart is circumcised and no longer do they desire to live the way they used to. A true believer has God's laws written on their hearts and wants to be obey Christ. We love because he first loved us. We puts to death the lusts of the flesh by the Spirit. We are convicted when we sin and confess it and turns from it.. Christ's commands are not burdensome but love- If we love God we want to obey Him and if we love one another--- it's interesting that we wont break the moral commands of the law when we truly do love God and neighbor.. So while we don't live under the letter of the law- we do keep the moral law because it is loving to do so.
I hear them scream--- "you are trying to keep yourself saved and "you have fallen from grace"!!!! Oh please. That's about as deaf as a person can be.
Salvation is a gift and those who possess that GIFT will obey because of the Spirit of God in them who has changed our hearts. If they don't have a changed heart and have no desire to obey- they are not born anew/ not saved.

It's a simple as that. yet we have people who are so terrified of the words- works, obey, law- that they have become teachers of Antinomianism.
Of course we can't earn salvation- that's not possible! But to deny the inward change in us and a willingness to obey that occurs, and all that goes with that is teaching a lie. There are those who deny the power of the Holy Spirit in a believer who will say if you just say you are saved by grace and yet live in all manner of sins until death you are still saved. No no no..
Our works show our faith. By their fruits you will know them.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 john 3:7

If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.1 john 2:29

By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 john 3:10

And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure. 1 John 3:3

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. james 2:18

and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Cor 6:9


For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:5

We are to put on the NEW nature- we are WALK in the Spirit. To walk in the flesh is death. It's clear why some have to deny that the apostles all taught the one gospel- because they don't teach it themselves. (Behold) And the other end of this spectrum is those who call Paul a fake apostle (Praise Yeshua)
There is a disconnect on both of their parts. Pray for them instead. I wish more people would call them out- they BOTH spread a false gospel.
To say Paul is the only one who taught the gospel is ludicrous-- and to call Paul a fake is equally ludicrous.

 

[GracePeace]

Hi GP, forgive me if I repeat someone- I have not read all of this thread.
From what I have seen on this forum- there are some who actually teach that what we do after we come to Christ is irrelevant to salvation. I do not agree with that at all.
A genuine believer's heart is circumcised and no longer do they desire to live the way they used to. A true believer has God's laws written on their hearts and wants to be obey Christ. We love because he first loved us. We puts to death the lusts of the flesh by the Spirit. We are convicted when we sin and confess it and turns from it.. Christ's commands are not burdensome but love- If we love God we want to obey Him and if we love one another--- it's interesting that we wont break the moral commands of the law when we truly do love God and neighbor.. So while we don't live under the letter of the law- we do keep the moral law because it is loving to do so.
I hear them scream--- "you are trying to keep yourself saved and "you have fallen from grace"!!!! Oh please. That's about as deaf as a person can be.
Salvation is a gift and those who possess that GIFT will obey because of the Spirit of God in them who has changed our hearts. If they don't have a changed heart and have no desire to obey- they are not born anew/ not saved.

It's a simple as that. yet we have people who are so terrified of the words- works, obey, law- that they have become teachers of Antinomianism.
Of course we can't earn salvation- that's not possible! But to deny the inward change in us and a willingness to obey that occurs, and all that goes with that is teaching a lie. There are those who deny the power of the Holy Spirit in a believer who will say if you just say you are saved by grace and yet live in all manner of sins until death you are still saved. No no no..
Our works show our faith. By their fruits you will know them.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 john 3:7

If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.1 john 2:29

By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 john 3:10

And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure. 1 John 3:3

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. james 2:18

and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:24

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1 Cor 6:9


For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Eph 5:5

We are to put on the NEW nature- we are WALK in the Spirit. To walk in the flesh is death. It's clear why some have to deny that the apostles all taught the one gospel- because they don't teach it themselves. (Behold) And the other end of this spectrum is those who call Paul a fake apostle (Praise Yeshua)
There is a disconnect on both of their parts. Pray for them instead. I wish more people would call them out- they BOTH spread a false gospel.
To say Paul is the only one who taught the gospel is ludicrous-- and to call Paul a fake is equally ludicrous.

Yeah, I agree with this, but that isn't to say that I understand Christianity, either.

I used to do everything I was convicted to do, believing I'd go to hell if I didn't obey, and, once, after I had gone to preach on the corner of the street (I was convicted to do so), God told me I was trying to save myself, and I affirmed that, yes, I was trying to save myself, and I didn't understand what was wrong with that. He showed me He wants me to serve completely out of love, not any fear, but I asked why I would serve Him if I wasn't afraid at all, and He said "love". To this day, +20 years later, I can't imagine serving God 100% out of love. I don't see that in Scripture. I see threats in Scripture. I don't know any words that would inspire me to serve 100% out of love.

It's not like a denial that we will go to hell if we don't serve Him, I don't think; I think it's just like with eating food. You eat food because you enjoy it, but that isn't a denial that you will die if you don't eat, and, yet, no one (under normal circumstances) sits down to eat a meal driven by the terror that they will die if they don't eat, they eat because the food is enjoyable (and a lot of people have trouble eating more than their bodies actually need to stay alive--and, actually, eat in a way that diminishes their longevity, that is self-harmful, because the food tastes good).

 

[soberxp]

Yeah, I agree with this, but that isn't to say that I understand Christianity, either.

I used to do everything I was convicted to do, believing I'd go to hell if I didn't obey, and, once, after I had gone to preach on the corner of the street (I was convicted to do so), God told me I was trying to save myself, and I affirmed that, yes, I was trying to save myself, and I didn't understand what was wrong with that. He showed me He wants me to serve completely out of love, not any fear, but I asked why I would serve Him if I wasn't afraid at all, and He said "love". To this day, +20 years later, I can't imagine serving God 100% out of love. I don't see that in Scripture. I see threats in Scripture. I don't know any words that would inspire me to serve 100% out of love.

It's not like a denial that we will go to hell if we don't serve Him, I don't think; I think it's just like with eating food. You eat food because you enjoy it, but that isn't a denial that you will die if you don't eat, and, yet, no one (under normal circumstances) sits down to eat a meal driven by the terror that they will die if they don't eat, they eat because the food is enjoyable (and a lot of people have trouble eating more than their bodies actually need to stay alive--and, actually, eat in a way that diminishes their longevity, that is self-harmful, because the food tastes good).

You describe God as "bully", and threats you to serve Him out of love....LOL.

 

[GracePeace]

You describe God as "bully", and threats you to serve Him out of love....LOL.

I see lots of threats in the Bible.

 

[soberxp]

I see lots of threats in the Bible.

Yesterday I discussed with a man that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

You still haven't figured it out?

If God really Talking/command to you "love".
And you still disobedience in "fear".
Look in my eyes, why? Tell me why you want to obey him.......out of fear.

 

[GracePeace]

Yesterday I discussed with a man that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

You still haven't figured it out?

If God really Talking/command to you "love".
And you still disobedience in "fear".
Look in my eyes, why? Tell me why you want to obey him.......out of fear.

You probably speak my language better than I speak yours, so I'm not putting you down, but I wish this was a little clearer.

I already explained why I can't conceive of serving WITHOUT fear (not without love but also with fear) : that's what the words I read inspire in me.

 

[soberxp]

You probably speak my language better than I speak yours, so I'm not putting you down, but I wish this was a little clearer.

I already explained why I can't conceive of serving WITHOUT fear (not without love but also fear) bc thats what the words i read inspire in me.

 

[GracePeace]

View attachment 70895

We have a language barrier.

 

[soberxp]

We have a language barrier.

God says love.
You disobedience.
Sin and die......

That's why God can't talk to everyone, show him to anyone, cuz they will die..... As what it write in OT.

That's out of his love. For us....

 

[GracePeace]

God says love.
You disobedience.
Sin and die......

That's why God can't talk to everyone, show him to anyone, cuz they will die..... As what it write in OT.

That's out of his love. For us....
View attachment 70896

Language barrier

 

[Stumpmaster]

 

[soberxp]

Language barrier

has no sense of humor.

 

[PS95]

Yeah, I agree with this, but that isn't to say that I understand Christianity, either.

I think we are constantly being attacked to confuse us. I learned that I have to remind myself every single day sometimes more than once-- what the true gospel is. The enemy seeks to throw us off course, and devour us.

I used to do everything I was convicted to do, believing I'd go to hell if I didn't obey, and, once, after I had gone to preach on the corner of the street (I was convicted to do so), God told me I was trying to save myself, and I affirmed that, yes, I was trying to save myself, and I didn't understand what was wrong with that. He showed me He wants me to serve completely out of love, not any fear, but I asked why I would serve Him if I wasn't afraid at all, and He said "love". To this day, +20 years later, I can't imagine serving God 100% out of love. I don't see that in Scripture. I see threats in Scripture. I don't know any words that would inspire me to serve 100% out of love.

I recall having this discussion before GP. It's a daily battle and I hear you- but you know that you can not save yourself don't you? It's just not possible. So try to get that part squared away and place it firmly in your heart and fight to keep it there always. That is THE place the enemy goes for- the very heart of truth. --We are saved by grace. NOT by works. Our works come from that faith in God's love.
I am the opposite of you- I recall you saying before- that you can't serve God out of love. That is so sad to me and is the problem.
Let's talk about this.. it's key.
I had many many sins- so maybe it's easier for me to love since I have been forgiven so much. Idk about you..? When you realized that you were a sinner and did things all of your life contrary to God's will for us- in total rebellion to Him-- you knew deep inside what you were doing was wrong but didn't care, right? That's how I was. I did what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it.. I gave no real thought to my maker. I was having fun, or so I thought..
BUT there came a time when I was convicted of my sins and had regrets and came face to face with the idea that I had been rebelling from all that I knew was good. I did not know that Jesus died to pay for my sins. I was raised a JW- I thought when I died- that was how my sins were paid for.. and I would be resurrected on the account that I died , so i would be resurrected with no sins. That was what Jesus died to make a way for me to do.. From there I had to earn my way through 1000 yr judgment obeying new rules on earth in my mortal sinful flesh in order to qualify for life... Do you wonder why I had no love for God??? I lived constantly under threats and never could do enough, and never had a lick of assurance. That God was hawking every move I made just waiting to squash me! I couldn't love him. That's the enemy!

BUT when I read my bible after praying to God for HIs truth and put down my JW watchtower magazines-- I began to see- I saw that I could never earn salvation- that Jesus died to pay for my sins! YES, He loves us that much. My physical death could not pay my sin debt--like I was told- but wages of sins is death-- means we get what we deserve if we remain in sins- but the GIFT is Jesus. it's not a paying for ours sins to be sinless!! How insane.

So I saw Jesus taking beatings and whipped and mocked, plucked out his beard - torturing him- hanging on that cross, bloody and suffering horribly FOR ME- for my sins- the sinless paying my debt? The innocent lamb would love me enough to do that for me?
How could I not love HIM for that? How is it possible to not return love for that incredible selfless LOVE?
I used to see threats- I no longer do. I used to Jesus as a hard and demanding man. I no longer do. The cross changed all of that.
What I see is Him saying, I love you enough to suffer and die for you---- you were dead in your sins with no hope- but I am your HOPE. You were lost but now you are found. Follow me, and I will give you rest. For I am full of mercy and grace...
THAT is the One I want to follow!!!
You sound like an abused wife who wants to be beaten.. what is that about? The fear of God is a healthy fear- a deep respect- he created us and everything we see and things we don't see. Fear of punishment is not an incentive for me to follow Jesus. Never.
I am not understanding you GP. Why do you need God to make you feel awful and afraid? I can't follow a God like that.
That's when I rebelled at how awful he is... I had a real life dad like that- couldn't please him, very critical of everything- very angry-- while I respected him, I did not want to be near him. I kept my distance. I never knew when he would explode next. I rebelled against him. I just wanted a father that I could feel comfortable with and could tell him how I felt.. Instead I had a volatile- demanding- perfectionist and I shyed from him. Whenever he was kind, I didn't trust it- thinking he could change on me any moment. If I did something stupid- he went crazy on me- I didn't want to apologize- I felt like I needed to defend myself because he was so harsh and blew everything out of proportion and acted as if he had no sins..
So when I saw Jesus- and His love for me even while I was a sinner He died for me-- that is who I sought my whole life! He is who I desire to be near and follow.

It's not like a denial that we will go to hell if we don't serve Him, I don't think; I think it's just like with eating food.

In the same way as eating because it's enjoyable - the same way we should want to serve God because we enjoy Him. Look at creation- He spoke everything into existence. Look at a flower- how intricate and beautiful and a water droplet from heaven dripping off of the petal- how He cares for His creations.. A sparrow doesn't fall that he doesn't know about. - how much more are you worth to Him? Maybe begin by appreciating all He has given to you. 2 legs and arms and eyes-- look around at all of creation- take a day out in nature.. Go look at the sea.. all of the seed inside of a piece of fruit to grow 100 more trees.. the care , the love He shows us everyday.. There is so much to see.

I was not taught about hellfire growing up- I have not had that fear, but I do know now that there is punishment for the wicked and reward for those who love God. I don't focus on what happens after death- but I focus on life. Why worry about fear and torment when we are not living in that but walking in love?

There are plenty of verses that show us to serve out of love. That is what it is about!

 

[PS95]

Yeah, I agree with this, but that isn't to say that I understand Christianity, either.

I used to do everything I was convicted to do, believing I'd go to hell if I didn't obey, and, once, after I had gone to preach on the corner of the street (I was convicted to do so), God told me I was trying to save myself, and I affirmed that, yes, I was trying to save myself, and I didn't understand what was wrong with that. He showed me He wants me to serve completely out of love, not any fear, but I asked why I would serve Him if I wasn't afraid at all, and He said "love". To this day, +20 years later, I can't imagine serving God 100% out of love. I don't see that in Scripture. I see threats in Scripture. I don't know any words that would inspire me to serve 100% out of love.

It's not like a denial that we will go to hell if we don't serve Him, I don't think; I think it's just like with eating food. You eat food because you enjoy it, but that isn't a denial that you will die if you don't eat, and, yet, no one (under normal circumstances) sits down to eat a meal driven by the terror that they will die if they don't eat, they eat because the food is enjoyable (and a lot of people have trouble eating more than their bodies actually need to stay alive--and, actually, eat in a way that diminishes their longevity, that is self-harmful, because the food tastes good).

We love, because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! Eph 2:4-5

I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. Gal 2:20

But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Ro 5:8

And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. 1 John 4;10

As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you.Remain in My love. / If you keep My commandment s, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. / I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. ... John 15:9-13

For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. / And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again. 2 Cor 5:14-15

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. / For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, / neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 8:37-39

Give thanks to the God of heaven! His loving devotion endures forever. Ps 136:26


Though the mountains may be removed and the hills may be shaken, My loving devotion will not depart from you, and My covenant of peace will not be broken,” says the LORD, who has compassion on you. Isaiah 54:10

The LORD your God is among you; He is mighty to save. He will rejoice over you with gladness; He will quiet you with His love; He will rejoice over you with singing.” Zeph 3;17

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Gal 5:6

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 1 Cor 13:2


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,... Gal 5:22

Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. / Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:7-8

By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 1 John 4:16-18

A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another. John 13:34


Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. John 15:13


For me- just looking at the cross and why He subjected Himself to that- is enough. He showed us His love.

 

[Behold]

some who actually teach that what we do after we come to Christ is irrelevant to salvation.

You are just confused. @PS95

Here is how to understand what you dont yet understand.

1.) Salvation is Jesus on The Cross, sacrificing Himself for your sin and mine.

So, we RECEIVE from God What Christ has supplied 2000 yrs ago, and this is our Salvation.

Now... the next day, we wake up, and we are saved, because we have received God's Salvation, which is Christ's sacrifice.. the day before.

So, the next day we now begin to do those works........not as our Salvation, as we have already received it yesterday by Faith.

A.) Those works we start doing, the day after we have received God's "Gift of Salvation".......is our DISCIPLESHIP.........not our Salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah, I agree with this, but that isn't to say that I understand Christianity, either.

I used to do everything I was convicted to do, believing I'd go to hell if I didn't obey, and, once, after I had gone to preach on the corner of the street (I was convicted to do so), God told me I was trying to save myself, and I affirmed that, yes, I was trying to save myself, and I didn't understand what was wrong with that. He showed me He wants me to serve completely out of love, not any fear, but I asked why I would serve Him if I wasn't afraid at all, and He said "love". To this day, +20 years later, I can't imagine serving God 100% out of love. I don't see that in Scripture. I see threats in Scripture. I don't know any words that would inspire me to serve 100% out of love.

It's not like a denial that we will go to hell if we don't serve Him, I don't think; I think it's just like with eating food. You eat food because you enjoy it, but that isn't a denial that you will die if you don't eat, and, yet, no one (under normal circumstances) sits down to eat a meal driven by the terror that they will die if they don't eat, they eat because the food is enjoyable (and a lot of people have trouble eating more than their bodies actually need to stay alive--and, actually, eat in a way that diminishes their longevity, that is self-harmful, because the food tastes good).

Can I simplify?
For whatever reason you're obeying God...
you are doing what Jesus said you should do.

Jesus said THOSE THAT DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER will see heaven.

Think of it as a marriage (but I do hate analogies).
A wife obeys her husband because she loves him and wants to make life easy for him
and have a pleasant life.

NOT because she fears her husband.

Maybe by fear you mean a deep respect?

I do want to say that you're better off than some that go so far as to state that obedience is a work.
Some say faith is a work.
This word WORK has come to be totally negative when this is all the NT speaks of....
doing good deeds for the Kingdom of God.
Doing good works.

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 70898

Gave you a LIKE Stumpmaster...and I couldn't agree more.

But wait...

Some will take that to mean that after salvation we are to do NOTHING.
In fact our good works are as filthy rags to God.

I don't know you...hope that's not what you mean.