Open apologetic: Why is there evil in the world?

[michaelvpardo]

If you talk to people about your faith, you've probably heard the question, "Why is there evil in the world?"
I believe that most Christians would at least know the simple answer: "God allowed choice in His creation."
Some thoughtful and well trained individuals could probably go into much greater depth in their answer, but when talking to someone who has no biblical standard or is, for practical purposes an atheist, are you able to make an argument for the truth objectively?
Rather than allowing a doubter or antagonist to batter you with successively more difficult questions (or their personal objections to God and the gospel) can you ask them a question that will provoke them to think about their own nature? This is what might be called diverting an attack or possibly "a redirect" of the question, as in the following response: "we can see that throughout history men have prepared themselves for "evil" works. That is, men have always busied themselves with building fortifications, walled cities, weapons to kill with, defenses to protect themselves with: Do we prepare for evil because the world is evil? Or is the world evil because we prepare for evil?"
A thoughtful person would be left wondering at cause and effect. Some might simply deny the existence of evil, but this would be hard seeing that the original question already admits to evil existing in the world.
I believe that most atheists and agnostics would probably attribute "evil" events to randomness, and evil behaviors to social malady and mental illness.
Where would you take the argument to next?
Respond any way that you want to, but please remember in the context of this exercise, scripture is the authority. B)

 

[aspen]

A&E were created with the ability to make choices. Evil is the result of loving selfishly, which A&E did when they ate of the tree and then taught their children. Only learning to love as we were created to love will redeem us - this can only happen through a relationship with Christ and the sanctification of the HS. When we are fully redeemed and learn to love perfectly, sin will not longer exist.

 

[michaelvpardo]

A&E were created with the ability to make choices. Evil is the result of loving selfishly, which A&E did when they ate of the tree and then taught their children. Only learning to love as we were created to love will redeem us - this can only happen through a relationship with Christ and the sanctification of the HS. When we are fully redeemed and learn to love perfectly, sin will not longer exist.

Sound explanation, but would an unbeliever receive it? The average atheist isn't likely to even believe that Adam and Eve ever existed.
Thank you for your participation.

 

[River Jordan]

when talking to someone who has no biblical standard or is, for practical purposes an atheist, are you able to make an argument for the truth objectively?

No, because our answer is based on the existence of God, which the atheist rejects a priori.

 

[Enquirer]

@ Michael VP ... This is not an easy one, so I would attempt to use something they would rely on like their "knowledge" and try to use it against them.
It's not perfect but I would start a conversation with them something like this ...

Enq ... Do you believe in the concept of evil ?

Sin ... No, evil is a religious concept born out of superstition and I only deal with facts.

Enq ... I see, so you only deal with science and stuff that you can quantify ?

Sin ... Absolutely.

Enq ... How much knowledge do you have, how much do you know ?

Sin ... Well I'm a professor in XYZ, studied at Harvard, got my degree in ABC, I sit on the Board of EFG, wrote four books, and so on, so yeah,
I know quite a bit.

Enq ... Excellent, so if I drew a circle and starting at the top like a clock with zero right round to twelve and said that this represents ALL the knowledge
of everything out there in the universe that we currently know and things that we still don't know, how far around would you be able to go ?

Sin ... Of everything that is known and unknown ?

Enq ... Yes, you name it from astronomy, palaeontology, geography, biology, economy, agrology, archaeology, entomology, and every other field or
study that ends with the suffix "ology or "onomy".

Sin ... That's a lot.

Enq ... Uh huh, so how far would you be able to go around the circle to get to 12 in our circle of all knowledge ?

Sin ... Hmmm, ok, I'd give it a three, ok maybe a one then.

Enq ... Only a three or a one ?

Sin ... Yeah, I don't know everything, you know !

Enq ... Yes I know ... so let's go back to my first question again, do you believe in evil ?

Sin ... Like I said, that's a religious concept.

Enq ... Yes I remember that, but in our little test you admitted that you don't know everything right ?

Sin ... Yeah, so what's that got to do with it ?

Enq ... Everything ... because how do you know that in the rest of the circle of ALL knowledge of the things you don't know, that evil exists and you're
just unaware of it ?

Sin ... Well, I don't know, but it can't it's religious !

Enq ... How do you know ... you don't, you don't have ALL knowledge do you ?


This is by no means perfect (or my imaginary conversation) or guaranteed to work, but it does highlight the fact that people no matter who they
are, or how educated, do not have all knowledge and therefore it creates a space or room for thought.

 

[Doxiemom]

The first glimpse we get of evil comes from Lucifer, when all fall before their God, except him, rising up in rebellion. This was possible only through free will, a gift from God.

So within this gift of free will comes the potential for evil

Then we have the Garden, heaven on Earth. Within that Garden are Adam and Eve and they have this gift of free will. But before Lucifer enters into the Garden , there grew , by God's Design , the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And well, you know the rest.

There has to be a purpose to it all. Otherwise it would have been so easy. But God desired us to love Him on purpose. Willingly. And yet He Knew we would fail Him miserably. The truth is we let Evil grow to where it has become so horrific. We have invited in, we give it nurturing soil to bloom, we sometimes love the wickedness.

So God has to permit it all. Why? because the nature of man is so wicked and evil that even after a 7 year horror and a thousand years of perfect peace, yet, still, there will be some of us willing to join forces once again with Satan and rebel against the King. And you know that story.

Evil was woven into the plan of redemption from the very beginning. And used as a tool to come to the perfection of Eternity Permitted to be used as a tool for the ultimate defeat of Satan and his kind.

 

[michaelvpardo]

@ Michael VP ... This is not an easy one, so I would attempt to use something they would rely on like their "knowledge" and try to use it against them.
It's not perfect but I would start a conversation with them something like this ...


This is by no means perfect (or my imaginary conversation) or guaranteed to work, but it does highlight the fact that people no matter who they
are, or how educated, do not have all knowledge and therefore it creates a space or room for thought.

One strategy is as good as another if it works. My thinking is to engage people where they are mentally, emotionally, spiritually, or on whatever level that they can be reached that engages thought more than emotion and gut reaction. Your approach would seem to be along those lines. Its hard to be challenging without provoking self defenses that are built into our minds and our behaviors, but I attempt to offer support to my view from the position of scripture, which remains outside the acceptable grounds of those who deny the existence and authority of God. They may label me as "primitive," "deluded," "insane," "bigoted," or any number of deprecatory descriptions, but I always want to make it clear to someone that their argument is with the authority of the source of scripture, more than with the person delivering it. I do believe the scripture: For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
If our argument is to have any eternal consequence, then the word of God has to be brought to bear to the hearing ear and the seeing eye, so that His purposes may be accomplished.

The first glimpse we get of evil comes from Lucifer, when all fall before their God, except him, rising up in rebellion. This was possible only through free will, a gift from God.

So within this gift of free will comes the potential for evil

Then we have the Garden, heaven on Earth. Within that Garden are Adam and Eve and they have this gift of free will. But before Lucifer enters into the Garden , there grew , by God's Design , the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. And well, you know the rest.

There has to be a purpose to it all. Otherwise it would have been so easy. But God desired us to love Him on purpose. Willingly. And yet He Knew we would fail Him miserably. The truth is we let Evil grow to where it has become so horrific. We have invited in, we give it nurturing soil to bloom, we sometimes love the wickedness.

So God has to permit it all. Why? because the nature of man is so wicked and evil that even after a 7 year horror and a thousand years of perfect peace, yet, still, there will be some of us willing to join forces once again with Satan and rebel against the King. And you know that story.

Evil was woven into the plan of redemption from the very beginning. And used as a tool to come to the perfection of Eternity Permitted to be used as a tool for the ultimate defeat of Satan and his kind.

Thank you for a thoughtful response and one probably close to my own understanding. I believe that maturity in Christ is largely defined by having learnt to accept the good provided by God with thanksgiving, and to reject evil by choosing the good, which is ultimately the reward of knowing God and living in His presence. Conveying this truth to someone who rejects God and therefore rejects that which is good is problematic to say the least, but our testimony can be received to the extent that our actions agree with our words.

 

[justaname]

If you talk to people about your faith, you've probably heard the question, "Why is there evil in the world?"
I believe that most Christians would at least know the simple answer: "God allowed choice in His creation."
Some thoughtful and well trained individuals could probably go into much greater depth in their answer, but when talking to someone who has no biblical standard or is, for practical purposes an atheist, are you able to make an argument for the truth objectively?
Rather than allowing a doubter or antagonist to batter you with successively more difficult questions (or their personal objections to God and the gospel) can you ask them a question that will provoke them to think about their own nature? This is what might be called diverting an attack or possibly "a redirect" of the question, as in the following response: "we can see that throughout history men have prepared themselves for "evil" works. That is, men have always busied themselves with building fortifications, walled cities, weapons to kill with, defenses to protect themselves with: Do we prepare for evil because the world is evil? Or is the world evil because we prepare for evil?"
A thoughtful person would be left wondering at cause and effect. Some might simply deny the existence of evil, but this would be hard seeing that the original question already admits to evil existing in the world.
I believe that most atheists and agnostics would probably attribute "evil" events to randomness, and evil behaviors to social malady and mental illness.
Where would you take the argument to next?
Respond any way that you want to, but please remember in the context of this exercise, scripture is the authority. B)

The simple answer to the question "why is there is evil in the world" is because man is evil. Without man there would be no evil. Trees are not evil per se nor is the lion who hunts for prey, yet man can contemplate and act upon evil.

Now as far as making an argument for the truth objectively, this is an impossibility without the acceptance of the existence of God. For the atheist there is no objective truth (cf. Kuhn).

I have also dealt with the denial of evil...or the relativity of evil (what you might call evil I might call necessary) which all then really brings into question objective morality. Again I would argue without the existence of God there is no moral objectivity.

 

[KingJ]

- There is evil in the world because God is good. He tolerates the wicked.

- There is evil in the world because mankind is highly intelligent. We can all grasp the difference between kissing and hugging over beating each other. Intelligence = accountability = capability of being good or evil. SOLELY intelligence. No soul or spirit needed.

- The only thing God is guilty of is making us intelligent and speeding up our inevitable fall by putting the devil with Adam and Eve.

- God foresaw inevitable corruption in ALL the creation associated with / given to Adam. Hence, He planned for Jesus to go to the cross before the foundations of the earth and gave lions big teeth.

They may label me as "primitive," "deluded," "insane," "bigoted," or any number of deprecatory descriptions, but I always want to make it clear to someone that their argument is with the authority of the source of scripture, more than with the person delivering it. I do believe the scripture: For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
If our argument is to have any eternal consequence, then the word of God has to be brought to bear to the hearing ear and the seeing eye, so that His purposes may be accomplished.

There is no excuse for us not being able to defend God with impeccable logic.

The thing to always remember in discussion with them is that there is NO such thing as an atheist. Only a hurt individual / god basher entertaining a mental state that mocks God. They hate God and probably have very good reasons for it. If you really want to help them, try find out why they hate God.

 

[Born_Again]

King J, The last part you said is key "find out why they hate God". Interestingly enough, if they take time to explain why they hate God, and are persistant about it, that may mean they at least acknowledge the possibility of God existing.... But that would debunk their whole purpose. We, as Christiains of course would credit Satan for their beliefs, but they would not accept that.

So far, the best explanation is that God gave us free will and choice and man chose evil. He (God) gave us the criteria if we wanted eternity with Him, all we had to do was live for Him. I would see it a more exausting existance to be evil than to just live for Him. God speaks of peace and above all, Love. A loving God does not promote mass killings, hurting children, and scaring the world he created for us to enjoy.

On top of that, the Bible is the oldest book! It wasnt written by a person in the last few hundred years claiming to be a profit. If the holy men of God did not write it, then who did???

 

[KingJ]

King J, The last part you said is key "find out why they hate God". Interestingly enough, if they take time to explain why they hate God, and are persistant about it, that may mean they at least acknowledge the possibility of God existing.... But that would debunk their whole purpose. We, as Christiains of course would credit Satan for their beliefs, but they would not accept that.

So far, the best explanation is that God gave us free will and choice and man chose evil. He (God) gave us the criteria if we wanted eternity with Him, all we had to do was live for Him. I would see it a more exausting existance to be evil than to just live for Him. God speaks of peace and above all, Love. A loving God does not promote mass killings, hurting children, and scaring the world he created for us to enjoy.

On top of that, the Bible is the oldest book! It wasnt written by a person in the last few hundred years claiming to be a profit. If the holy men of God did not write it, then who did???

Amen!

 

[michaelvpardo]

I have also dealt with the denial of evil...or the relativity of evil (what you might call evil I might call necessary) which all then really brings into question objective morality. Again I would argue without the existence of God there is no moral objectivity.

I would tend to agree with you, especially with your last statement, which no doubt has a lot to do with the current worldwide crisis surrounding materialism and the consequent downward spiral into depravity. But humanists, do tend to hold to a standard of morality defined by social benefit which allows for a shifting of values dependent upon what appears at the moment to be the "right" thing to do. Without such thinking a world leader wouldn't be able to make a statement about not punishing his daughters by making them have an unwanted baby and thereby justifying a woman's "right to choice" over a human being's "right to live."
Please don't misunderstand my purpose here, which is not to find an answer to every objection, but to find a means to bring God's word to bear upon the issues confronting all men's hearts, believing or unbelieving, so that we who have taken our refuge in Christ are prepared to give an answer for the hope within us, and preferably one derived from the word of God. Objections to God's existence are commonly objections to allowing His influence or control in our lives, and these objections are generally those that justify our position based upon the perception that the world is out of control. In my own personal experiences in confronting atheist beliefs, I've found that the most vocal in their opposition to God are often former "believers" who have been disappointed in their personal expectations, receiving evil in the course of their lives when they believed that they were owed "good," ( and presumably because of the "good" that they'd done.)
Nothing that you or I can say or do has any power of itself to convince an atheist of the existence and benevolence of our God, But the Spirit of God will bring His word to bear upon the hearers of that word, and our job as "witnesses" of Christ is to find ways to present it without adding any offense other than that which is found in the cross itself. Our God is the One who created the seeing eye and the listening ear, and He alone is able to change the heart of stone to one of flesh. Our part is to engage men on His behalf, armed with His word, not with the purpose of defeating them, but of saving them from that fallen nature common to man.

There is no excuse for us not being able to defend God with impeccable logic.

The thing to always remember in discussion with them is that there is NO such thing as an atheist. Only a hurt individual / god basher entertaining a mental state that mocks God. They hate God and probably have very good reasons for it. If you really want to help them, try find out why they hate God.

I'm not so sure about the impeccable logic part (some of us are nearly incapable of logic) or about defending God (the Almighty really doesn't need me to defend Him), but I'll agree in part with the later statement as I've found it to be true in my experience confronting unbelief. It isn't easy dealing with people who have suffered terrible loss or abuse, but while the world is primarily concerned with assigning blame, our Lord's business is about reconciliation and healing. If we've experienced it to any degree, we should be able to present a reasonable offer of the same to those who need it the most.

 

[aspen]

There is no excuse for us not being able to defend God with impeccable logic.

The thing to always remember in discussion with them is that there is NO such thing as an atheist. Only a hurt individual / god basher entertaining a mental state that mocks God. They hate God and probably have very good reasons for it. If you really want to help them, try find out why they hate God.

What about people who are not intelligent? Are they required to use logic to defend God? Why does God need to be defended?

I think atheists understand best why they choose to be atheists. However, most I have run into are not mad at God, they are frustrated with His people. They have a low tolerance for sermons that explain the obvious for 45 to 75 mind numbing minutes; Christians who condemn Christians and nonChristians for being involved in disciplines like science and the social gospel. They are tired of Christians who try to legislate theology. They are tired of Christians who check their brains at the door, while, at the same time, place themselves above everyone else. They are tired of magical thinking and superstition and the bully-pulpit. I cannot say I blame them. Too many Christians wear the uniform and collect the equipment, and armchair quarterback, but have no idea how to run the race.

 

[KingJ]

1. What about people who are not intelligent? Are they required to use logic to defend God? 2. Why does God need to be defended?

1. Yes. Anyone with a useable brain can.

2. What do you think our duty is as His ambassadors? The ONLY reason I am a Christian is because I have and do judge God as good. As David says ''give thanks!!! because God is good'' Psalm 136:1.

Would you be a Christian if Jesus never died? If God was on par with the devil in schemes and evil thoughts...?

I'm not so sure about the impeccable logic part (some of us are nearly incapable of logic) or about defending God (the Almighty really doesn't need me to defend Him), but I'll agree in part with the later statement as I've found it to be true in my experience confronting unbelief. It isn't easy dealing with people who have suffered terrible loss or abuse, but while the world is primarily concerned with assigning blame, our Lord's business is about reconciliation and healing. If we've experienced it to any degree, we should be able to present a reasonable offer of the same to those who need it the most.

Everyone with a useable brain can use impeccable logic to defend God. That is why the devil is / needs to be the master of deceit John 8:44. Help people use their brains with honesty and we will see a rise in Christianity.

Of course God does not need ''defending''. We defend / teach the truth with honesty of His name to the lost and deceived. Helping them face reality. Reality = God made us, He didn't have to. Reality = God died for us all = Greatest act of love possible John 15:13 = God loves us all = valid reasons exist for all unanswered prayer and suffering.

 

[michaelvpardo]

1. Yes. Anyone with a useable brain can.

2. What do you think our duty is as His ambassadors? The ONLY reason I am a Christian is because I have and do judge God as good. As David says ''give thanks!!! because God is good'' Psalm 136:1.

Would you be a Christian if Jesus never died? If God was on par with the devil in schemes and evil thoughts...?


Everyone with a useable brain can use impeccable logic to defend God. That is why the devil is / needs to be the master of deceit John 8:44. Help people use their brains with honesty and we will see a rise in Christianity.

Of course God does not need ''defending''. We defend / teach the truth with honesty of His name to the lost and deceived. Helping them face reality. Reality = God made us, He didn't have to. Reality = God died for us all = Greatest act of love possible John 15:13 = God loves us all = valid reasons exist for all unanswered prayer and suffering.

Logic is a mathematical science and I know more than a few people with usable brains who have trouble with simple arithmetic, much less logic. I appreciate men like Ravi Zacharias who have well trained minds and are capable of pointing out illogical argument in a discussion, but most people believe things by what they feel to be true rather than what they reason to be true. I want my faith to be reasonable and so I seek to understand and reconcile (in my understanding) the scriptures to themselves and to the world that we live in, but when you argue with people over matters of faith, what you most commonly hear from them is "I feel......." Logic doesn't overcome emotion (though it would be nice if it did; the world would be a much simpler place.)

 

[KingJ]

Logic is a mathematical science and I know more than a few people with usable brains who have trouble with simple arithmetic, much less logic. I appreciate men like Ravi Zacharias who have well trained minds and are capable of pointing out illogical argument in a discussion, but most people believe things by what they feel to be true rather than what they reason to be true. I want my faith to be reasonable and so I seek to understand and reconcile (in my understanding) the scriptures to themselves and to the world that we live in, but when you argue with people over matters of faith, what you most commonly hear from them is "I feel......." Logic doesn't overcome emotion (though it would be nice if it did; the world would be a much simpler place.)

We are simply illogical / miss the boat mostly in our arguments of Christian faith. Christianity = absolute truth = absolute logic.

No need for faith in God when we have five senses that can grasp intelligent design.

We can also explain / see logical pointers toward the divinity of Jesus without any faith http://www.thesacredpage.com/2008/04/napoleons-proof-for-divinity-of-jesus.html.

But faith that we need is rather logical. We need a revelation from God that Jesus is indeed Lord and not just a great man. So we can say to the unsaved that they lack faith and we can say to the saved that we always have faith. But lets clarify that that faith is always only / simply a revelation from God to our spirits of Jesus being Lord. Our spirits grasp what our minds can't. Kind of like a spaceship visiting stone age man. It is real faith. Never mental brainwashing.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

We are simply illogical / miss the boat mostly in our arguments of Christian faith. Christianity = absolute truth = absolute logic.

No need for faith in God when we have five senses that can grasp intelligent design.

We can also explain / see logical pointers toward the divinity of Jesus without any faith http://www.thesacredpage.com/2008/04/napoleons-proof-for-divinity-of-jesus.html.

But faith that we need is rather logical. We need a revelation from God that Jesus is indeed Lord and not just a great man. So we can say to the unsaved that they lack faith and we can say to the saved that we always have faith. But lets clarify that that faith is always only / simply a revelation from God to our spirits of Jesus being Lord. Our spirits grasp what our minds can't. Kind of like a spaceship visiting stone age man. It is real faith. Never mental brainwashing.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

I think that I understand what you're getting at and find it in part true, but what you've said in part "our spirit grasps what our minds can't" is only true with respect to receiving the testimony of Jesus Christ when our spirits have already been made alive by God. Prior to being born again of His Spirit, we remain spiritually dead and unable to receive spiritual truth:
13. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 1 Corinthians 2:13-15

While it is possible to intellectually understand doctrine with regard to the message of the gospel, to the natural mind it remains foolishness. We spend much time trying to prove God's existence to those that reject Him, but the truth of the matter is that the unbeliever already has all the proof needed for God's existence as evidenced by creation, the things that are made reveal something of the maker and undeniably that there is a maker. The scientific community at present is generally consumed with providing alternate explanation to existence, but such alternate explanations also require faith to believe, and specifically faith in the minds of men to comprehend, define, and control the substances of creation. Yet even these acknowledge God by their struggle to disprove Him though they couch their research and hypothetical modeling in terms like "enlightenment" and "scientific fact" and regard themselves as heroes in the fight against ignorance.

I have a friend, a local man that I'd ministered to for a year or so and who is a believer in our Lord, Jesus Christ. This individual suffered an interruption in oxygen flow during his birth and consequent brain damage. He can communicate at the level of a child, but has no profound understanding of scripture or science or anything else, yet the Lord gave him faith to believe Him. I've been a witness to the fruit of the Holy Spirit in the man's life and have received prophetic pronouncements from this very simple man that were right on the mark, so I have no reason to doubt His confession (and the man is not gifted in guile and admits to faults when they are clearly explained to him.) God is not thwarted by lack of intellectual capacity, nor is He thwarted by superior intellect (superior intellect will acknowledge truth when confronted with it to the degree that it poses no great threat to self.)
Applying the word of God logically or with wisdom to our argument can tear down the opposition presented by human philosophy and false religions (science included), but winning an argument is not the same as winning a soul. You can't argue people into the kingdom of God; They must enter by faith through receiving the word of the gospel, being born again to new life by His free gift, and this is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit from start to end. What we accomplish with our argument is at best the creation of doubt in the mind of the unbeliever and with that perhaps an open ear to scriptural truth.

 

[River Jordan]

I think atheists understand best why they choose to be atheists. However, most I have run into are not mad at God, they are frustrated with His people. They have a low tolerance for sermons that explain the obvious for 45 to 75 mind numbing minutes; Christians who condemn Christians and nonChristians for being involved in disciplines like science and the social gospel. They are tired of Christians who try to legislate theology. They are tired of Christians who check their brains at the door, while, at the same time, place themselves above everyone else. They are tired of magical thinking and superstition and the bully-pulpit. I cannot say I blame them. Too many Christians wear the uniform and collect the equipment, and armchair quarterback, but have no idea how to run the race.

Yep, that's been my experience as well. I don't know a lot of atheists, but I do know some and I haven't seen any hint of "hating God" in them at all. The atheists I know are just regular people who don't believe in God. Other than that one thing, they're pretty much just like everyone else. And the ones I've talked to about why they're atheists basically say they don't see any convincing evidence for God and they haven't had any sort of spiritual experiences. Throw in the ridiculous types of behavior you describe and that seals the deal for them.

There's no need to demonize atheists any more than we should demonize other groups of non-Christians. Everyone has their own story and their own reasons for being where they are spiritually, so we owe it to them to take the time to listen to them and take them at their word. If you go into it with your mind already set that they hate God and are an evil person, I promise you won't get very far most of the time.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Yep, that's been my experience as well. I don't know a lot of atheists, but I do know some and I haven't seen any hint of "hating God" in them at all. The atheists I know are just regular people who don't believe in God. Other than that one thing, they're pretty much just like everyone else. And the ones I've talked to about why they're atheists basically say they don't see any convincing evidence for God and they haven't had any sort of spiritual experiences. Throw in the ridiculous types of behavior you describe and that seals the deal for them.

There's no need to demonize atheists any more than we should demonize other groups of non-Christians. Everyone has their own story and their own reasons for being where they are spiritually, so we owe it to them to take the time to listen to them and take them at their word. If you go into it with your mind already set that they hate God and are an evil person, I promise you won't get very far most of the time.

Hatred of God isn't always openly manifested by unbelievers, but according to scripture we all are at enmity with God until we receive His Son by faith; Its not that He hates us because the opposite is true. However, our natural state is to hate Him though this is revealed more in our actions than in our words or thoughts. For example, there is a former engineer that works in my shop, who once confided in me (for no apparent reason other than that I listen to Christian talk on the radio) that he hates being preached at. I don't preach at him or anyone else that I know is an unbeliever, though I've been known to expound some scripture with other brothers in Christ that share my employment. As far as I know, no one in our shop preaches to this individual (who is generally pleasant natured as far as crotchety older men go), yet it was necessary for him to tell me that he hates to be preached at. Yesterday I overheard a conversation between him and a few other technicians about a tone sequence that he'd programmed to bring up and knock down some radio repeater equipment and his choice for a code was *666 and *999. Now you have to ask yourself why anyone would bother to incorporate a number scheme into something that even most unbelievers in our culture recognize as a symbol of the anti-Christ, when there had to be at least 997 other possible numeric codes. This guy doesn't go around spouting hatred against God (or anyone else that I've noticed), but what do such choices reveal about the hidden things in his heart (mind if you prefer?)
Just because someone isn't openly hostile toward you because of your faith doesn't mean that they wouldn't cheer on a crowd seeking your blood. If you can find a holocaust survivor to talk to about their own experiences, I think you wouldn't have any problem confirming that truth.

 

[justaname]

Hatred of God isn't always openly manifested by unbelievers, but according to scripture we all are at enmity with God until we receive His Son by faith; Its not that He hates us because the opposite is true. However, our natural state is to hate Him though this is revealed more in our actions than in our words or thoughts. For example, there is a former engineer that works in my shop, who once confided in me (for no apparent reason other than that I listen to Christian talk on the radio) that he hates being preached at. I don't preach at him or anyone else that I know is an unbeliever, though I've been known to expound some scripture with other brothers in Christ that share my employment. As far as I know, no one in our shop preaches to this individual (who is generally pleasant natured as far as crotchety older men go), yet it was necessary for him to tell me that he hates to be preached at. Yesterday I overheard a conversation between him and a few other technicians about a tone sequence that he'd programmed to bring up and knock down some radio repeater equipment and his choice for a code was *666 and *999. Now you have to ask yourself why anyone would bother to incorporate a number scheme into something that even most unbelievers in our culture recognize as a symbol of the anti-Christ, when there had to be at least 997 other possible numeric codes. This guy doesn't go around spouting hatred against God (or anyone else that I've noticed), but what do such choices reveal about the hidden things in his heart (mind if you prefer?)
Just because someone isn't openly hostile toward you because of your faith doesn't mean that they wouldn't cheer on a crowd seeking your blood. If you can find a holocaust survivor to talk to about their own experiences, I think you wouldn't have any problem confirming that truth.

A little Scripture to illuminate your position...These are thought to be the words of the Christ.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.