OSAS Can Sin all you Want

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robert derrick

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You of course are sincere, and I appreciate your answering honestly, while many won't answer at all:

And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

However, the original conclusion of your teaching is true.

No, I don't. I know for a fact it is possible. God can accomplish any work in us He wants to.

I've not met anyone whom I've gotten the impression that they do

You see how you say it is possible, but do not say it is necessary, and so it is not a commandment to be obeyed, but only theoretical ideal.

I certainly don't think that of myself!

This boasting is called by Scripture, a willful humility.. Humbling ourselves before God is by repenting, not by 'humbly' declaring how far short we are now falling.

The publican left the temple justified, not by declaring how lousy he was, since the Lord already knows that, but because he repented of being so lousy.

But I never declare it's impossible.

And so, as they say, it is a distinction without a difference.

I've not met anyone whom I've gotten the impression that they do, "at all times"

Them thinking of tomorrow and all times, never repent now and today.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

The addict does not stop now, while he thinks of later and of 'all times'.

Generally that doesn't seem to come all at once, from what I've found. But that doesn't mean it can't, and I think sometimes it even does.

Ever gradually becoming more pure of heart, but never being pure in heart now, is the ever 'progressive' sanctification of man's own will and power, that never is simply sanctified now.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Being holy as He is holy is being wholly sanctified in spirit and body now.

I wish I were pure is denying Jesus' power and blood right now.

I think I'm like any other Christian, on a pathway to renewal, where sometimes we are walking in the Spirit, and sometimes not, instead walking according to flesh. And my hope is indeed for each of us that we increase in the Spirit more and more. Certainly that is God's working in us, that this will be so.

This is the message to the double-hearted in the garden, to do both good and evil and still live forever.

At the end of Romans 7 Paul cried out for deliverance to declare Romans 8.

The "certainty" is in your words, not mine. Although if anything, the Scriptures allow that we may yet commit sins, and if we do, we have an Intercessor.!

If it is only possible, but never acknowledged, then it remains only a possibility that is certain not to come now.

And to say having purity of spirit and body is only for later at the resurrection, is the false hope of them who do not do so now, because they do not want nor love it now.

Are you the one who will say, "I love God perfectly at all times"?

I love God in all things now, having a purified soul, clean heart, right spirit, and a mind cleared from all unrighteous thoughts for sin, I am not sinning in spirit nor in body with the devil against God, Now. Later will take care for itself later, if later comes at all.

Once again, the doctrine of 'perfectly' is false, in that it includes the imperfection of being in mortal flesh. Being mortal is not sinful, and seeing a sinful thought flying overhead is not sinning, but is simply to be chased away and cast out and rejected, and continue in purity and peace with the Lord.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

That is the good fight of faith.

It wouldn't be true, I'm not yet that renewed.

Then become it now, and know what it is to not need boast yourself unworthy now.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

If we say the Scripture is possible, but do not the word now, then it is only high ideal to give lip service to, and the Scripture is not commandment of God to obey with power of Christ, but only theoretically possibility never done on earth.
 

MatthewG

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My flesh sins and falls short of the glory of God, the only Glory of God there is to look towards is the Lord Yeshua.

All people on this forum fail, but they should know their hope and trust and faith in the Lord Yeshua makes them right with God - does this mean to use the freedom to serve the flesh that is naturally against the Spirit? No, but instead to feed the spirit and abiding in Christ is the direction one should go, of course that is a choice based on the merit of the individual.
 

marks

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Them thinking of tomorrow and all times, never repent now and today.
What I'm saying here, I've never come across anyone who has given me the impression that they are perfectly obedient to Jesus' commands, that we love others and trust Him. Much less towards keeping the Mosaic Law, which is actually now literally impossible to keep.

And if disobedience brings condemnation, or shows that the man is not reborn, then yes, even one "little" disobedience is punished by death.

I'm not talking about our feeling of motivation based on our expectation of future accomplishment or lack thereof. I'm talking about the catastrophic consequences of disobedience today, and yesterday. One untrusting throught, one unloving thought or word or deed, and you are a lawbreaker. Not giving your tithe to a Levite, you are a Lawbreaker. Thinking evil of me unrightfully, you are a lawbreaker.

You who teach keeping the Law, do you not hear what the Law says?

Much love!
 

marks

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Once again, the doctrine of 'perfectly' is false, in that it includes the imperfection of being in mortal flesh. Being mortal is not sinful, and seeing a sinful thought flying overhead is not sinning, but is simply to be chased away and cast out and rejected, and continue in purity and peace with the Lord.

I'm not talking about temptations, or clumsiness causing you to spill someone's soda. But if you think you are being rated on obedience, only perfect obedience is sufficient, and not just going forward. Do you think God gave a Law to not have it kept? Was Jesus nailed to a cross for nothing? That "partial obedience" is OK?

That you can think evil of another yesterday, and today if you have a better opinion of yourself it's OK? Won't be punished? Doesn't matter?

This isn't about motivation, "OH, I won't try today because I know I'll fail tomorrow", that's nothing of what I'm talking about.

The one who keeps the Law lives by it. Period. Not must some, not most, not, "as long as I'm ok today" (In my own opinion), but, if you keep it, you live, if you don't you don't live. And God is perfectly clear. You break a law - you are a lawbreaker.

That is the perfection I'm talking about. If you are accepted or condemned by your obedience to Law, that's it. One violation, you are out. If it's by Law.

Nothing to do with motivation, entirely about your judicial status.

Much love!
 

robert derrick

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What I'm saying here, I've never come across anyone who has given me the impression that they are perfectly obedient to Jesus' commands, that we love others and trust Him. Much less towards keeping the Mosaic Law, which is actually now literally impossible to keep.

And if disobedience brings condemnation, or shows that the man is not reborn, then yes, even one "little" disobedience is punished by death.

I'm not talking about our feeling of motivation based on our expectation of future accomplishment or lack thereof. I'm talking about the catastrophic consequences of disobedience today, and yesterday. One untrusting throught, one unloving thought or word or deed, and you are a lawbreaker. Not giving your tithe to a Levite, you are a Lawbreaker. Thinking evil of me unrightfully, you are a lawbreaker.

You who teach keeping the Law, do you not hear what the Law says?

Much love!
And so for now, you keep wanting to falsely call purity in heart, perfectionism.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.


At this time now, you simply don't want to have to exercise the power of Christ to obey Him with a purified heart and cleaned mind, nor would want to continue guarding your heart and mind against the fiery darts of the wicked.

Until you are willing to be pure in heart, then you will simply remain double hearted and unstable unto the end.

It's you comfort zone, that is enabled by OSAS false security.

The first great commandment is indeed impossible to you or anyone else believing it is only a possibility, that you have never experienced, because you don't want to, now.

I exhort you to do so now, and stop avoiding it as something perhaps for later.
 

marks

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you keep wanting to falsely call purity in heart, perfectionism.
Another one of those judgments of my heart. No, that's not what I'm saying. You keep skewing what I'm writing to be something I'm not saying. I see this a lot, and what of it?

You cannot seem to give a fair telling of my views, regardless of whether or not you agree. You reword into your own words to make it into something I'm not saying. It's putting words into my mouth, falsely.

Much love!
 

robert derrick

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]I'm not talking about temptations, or clumsiness causing you to spill someone's soda. But if you think you are being rated on obedience, only perfect obedience is sufficient, and not just going forward.

I'm saying that those who think they have no sin remaining in their behavior and thoughts most likely lack a certain self-awareness, or do not realize what the real walking in the Spirit is like. No fleshy thoughts, feelings, actions.

The perfectionism you speak of is having no passing unrighteous thought whatsoever, which is after the resurrection only. You are defining it for now in mortal bodies as the law of Christ.

On earth, having a passing thought is not sinning. Taking thought for it and dwelling upon, and lusting for it, that is against the law of Christ.

I don't walk with lust in my heart, nor take thought for any flying thoughts and darts: DOA.

You teach post resurrection perfectionism for law of Christ today, and it is false.

Preaching post-resurrection perfectionism is for them that say they have no sinful thought at all on earth, and for yourself that say being pure in heart is not possible on earth.

Keeping our hearts and minds pure for Jesus' fellowship today, is the ongoing good fight and race for everlasting life.

Was Jesus nailed to a cross for nothing? That "partial obedience" is OK?

You teach double-mindedness for life, by walking in the Spirit some, while also walking in the flesh some unto the end.

Not me.

That you can think evil of another yesterday, and today if you have a better opinion of yourself it's OK? Won't be punished? Doesn't matter?

Opinion of yourself is your way of thinking. Not mine.

All past sinning confessed and repented is forgiven. And like the Lord, I don't think on them as a snare for walking with Him pure in heart and conscience now.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.

This isn't about motivation, "OH, I won't try today because I know I'll fail tomorrow", that's nothing of what I'm talking about.

Yes it is. You have no desire to be pure in heart now, that you may also not be double-hearted and unstable in life today.

It's why you keep calling it perfectionism and looking at it as all times always in the future.

If we are not pure in heart now, it is only because we do not choose Jesus' fellowship over lust of the devil.

The one who keeps the Law lives by it. Period. Not must some, not most, not, "as long as I'm ok today" (In my own opinion), but, if you keep it, you live, if you don't you don't live.

And now, instead of purifying your heart for Jesus' sake, you bring in law, which I never spoke of, plus more of your opinion that I never think of nor with.

And God is perfectly clear. You break a law - you are a lawbreaker.

If we break Christ's law, we are transgressors against Him.

Your post-resurrection perfectionism is not law of Christ.

Your lusting for the devil and walking with him after the flesh, is.

Not me. Not now. The past is gone, and tomorrow may not come.

I've not met anyone whom I've gotten the impression that they do, "at all times", I certainly don't think that of myself!

And you're still clinging to the old lie that no one else is doing it right. Nor do you want to lead the way for your own soul's sake.

That is the perfection I'm talking about. If you are accepted or condemned by your obedience to Law, that's it. One violation, you are out. If it's by Law.

No, it's not. The perfectionism you preach is post-resurrection perfection of thought.

The law of Christ in Scripture is not lusting for the devil ad sinning against God. If we are doing that now, then yes we are out of His will, fellowship, kingdom, and family of saints.

And by your own declarations, you are out quite often.

Nothing to do with motivation, entirely about your judicial status.

The judicial status of the law of Christ for the unclean heart and double minded, is to repent and cease being a doer of good and evil, and choose the good only with a pure heart and clean mind, that loves the Lord more now, than sinning with the devil at all today.

Much love!

Much exhortation to purify your heart today and stop putting it off to tomorrow, which may not be given you to do so.
 

marks

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Until you are willing to be pure in heart, then you will simply remain double hearted and unstable unto the end.
How many of my posts have you read that you have missed me telling people that you can prove your power to do righteousness by doing it right now, and then just repeat that? 2 minutes, focus on God, then make it 4. Then make it 8. And so one.

Until you are willing to see me, we will not have a meaningful conversation.

Much love!
 
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marks

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The perfectionism you speak of is having no passing unrighteous thought whatsoever,
Quote me on that. Seriously! I don't recall saying that, and it doesn't sound like what I say.

What I've said is, the Law requires that you love God with all you are, and love others as you love yourself. If you don't do that, you have become a lawbreaker. Again, you who teach the law, do you not hear what it says?

Misrepresenting my view is not, well, enough said.

Much love!
 
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robert derrick

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Another one of those judgments of my heart. No, that's not what I'm saying. You keep skewing what I'm writing to be something I'm not saying. I see this a lot, and what of it?

You need to take more thought of what you are saying.

I'm saying that those who think they have no sin remaining in their behavior and thoughts most likely lack a certain self-awareness, or do not realize what the real walking in the Spirit is like. No fleshy thoughts, feelings, actions.

This is post-resurrection perfectionism. The law of Christ is only not to receive and lust with such things.

Jesus commands us to take no thought for such things, but to let them pass and cast them down without lusting to do them.

I now reject them so soon as the drive by: DOA

I was as you, until I took the commandment of the Lord seriously, and feared failing Him to do so:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.


And now I am no more double-hearted and unstable in the faith. You can be too.

You cannot seem to give a fair telling of my views, regardless of whether or not you agree. You reword into your own words to make it into something I'm not saying. It's putting words into my mouth, falsely.

As you can see, you need to take a closer look at your own words.

I'm saying that those who think they have no sin remaining in their behavior and thoughts most likely lack a certain self-awareness, or do not realize what the real walking in the Spirit is like. No fleshy thoughts, feelings, actions.

This is post-resurrection perfectionism taught for law of Christ, which therefore makes keep His law on earth impossible with mortal bodies.

True walking in the Spirit according to the law of Christ, is not according to your law of resurrection perfectionism, but is simply chasing off all such thoughts that will come flying by, but not allowing them to nest in the soul by lusting for them:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
 

marks

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This is post-resurrection perfectionism taught for law of Christ, which therefore makes keep His law on earth impossible with mortal bodies.

Romans 6:4-12 KJV
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Much love!
 

marks

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True walking in the Spirit according to the law of Christ, is not according to your law of resurrection perfectionism, but is simply chasing off all such thoughts that will come flying by, but not allowing them to nest in the soul by lusting for them:

Galatians 5:22-24 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:16 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Much love!
 

Taken

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@marks -
A newly created historical man, is parallel to a newly born babe, who is taught little by little, bit by bit, with prohibitive Laws, with prohibitive Rules ... with vague understanding.

Babe don’t touch the fire, it will burn you. So? What’s a burn?
Babe don’t run in the road, a car could kill you? So? What’s a road, a car, kill?

Laws and Rules are practice methods for the immature, and every human like it or not begins immature, and some remain immature.

Maturing of a Human down to the wire...two commands.

* Love the Lord First and Before all other things.
* Love your neighbor, enemy, as yourself.

Sounds as simple as Eat of this Tree, don’t Eat of that Tree...
No one was there to slap Eve’s hand, and say no, no.

Shall we suppose a mature “aged” man shall follow TWO commands by his own power (remembering mankind is the weakest?)

No. It is wisdom of a mature man to Know, The Power of God “IN” a man does the KEEPING of a man to KEEP those two commands.

It is the wisdom of a mature man, to have Acquiesced to the Power of God.

It is the Understanding of a mature and wise man to KNOW,
Greater is He that is “IN” you than he that is “IN” the world.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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marks

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As you can see, you need to take a closer look at your own words.
I stand by what I said. I do not believe you read my posts carefully, and I think you inject them with your own ideas of what your opposition is, and argue against that.

You've clearly not understood things I've been saying, but have continued your course. If you ask questions about things I've written, we can go ahead like that, I'll try to provide clarity.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Shall we suppose a mature “aged” man shall follow TWO commands by his own power (remembering mankind is the weakest?)

No. It is wisdom of a mature man to Know, The Power of God “IN” a man does the KEEPING of a man to KEEP those two commands.

It is the wisdom of a mature man, to have Acquiesced to the Power of God.

It is the Understanding of a mature and wise man to KNOW,
Greater is He that is “IN” you than he that is “IN” the world.
Good stuff!!

Much love!
 
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marks

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1 Corinthians 4:2-5 KJV
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

We are not capable judges of ourselves. We have our opinions formed from our perceptions. There are hidden things we don't know, that Jesus will bring to light in that day. And people are generally pretty accomplished liars, and to themselves.

Paul didn't know anything against himself. From his viewpoint, he did nothing wrong. Yet he did not consider himself justified just because he wasn't aware of wrongdoing in himself. He knew better. Do we?

Much love!