OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[face2face]

The problem with all of that is, Gods refutes it by His Word. God said;

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

Correct - so Who become our Righteousness?
How is that Righteousness obtained?

See how God revealed the truth about mans fallen state, there's no way that man (who is born dead in sin) can abide in Christ and persevere in obedience to the end.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

We see those who went out of the Church were never in the Body of Christ to begin with. Just as the Disciples thought that Judas Iscariot was a genuine believer, until he was exposed as a Devil. As far as the Disciples were concerned they had no idea that he was a Devil but God always knew and God created him for that reason, because God causes everything. He is sovereign over all things.

Judas wasnt a fallen angel - man you have rocks in your head if you believe that. He was a false accuser which is what the Greek means.

I can't believe I'm even having this discussion.

From your point of view, you would have seen Judas join the Church then lose his salvation. But the truth is he was never saved to begin with and neither is anyone else who falls away.

Precisely, which is why OSAS is in the trash - imagine the Lord saying to Judas OSAS? Never happen - even to the Elect!

SO the true born again believers can never fall away because salvation is in Gods hands and He can't fail to save those He purposed to save before the foundation of the world.

Correct there will be saved for those who persevere to the end, that much is certain - but you or Scott and anyone in this forum hasn't the foggiest clue who they will be.

Without faith it is impossible to please Him - there is a condition which removes OSAS from the outset.

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[BlessedPeace]

Who said anything about earning salvation? Do you not know that Faith works? Without Faith its impossible to please Him.
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Faith begets good deeds. Good deeds do not beget faith.

 

[face2face]

Gods promise is not trash as you claim it is.

Your inference Christian - where did I say that? Show me Post#

You think you can connect OSAS with God's Promises, which can only be received by Faith - no other way...this is why Jesus Prayed the Peters Faith fail not, for to do so would see him lose his salvation just as you rightly said Judas had done.

The example of Judas destroys OSAS and the fact that Jesus prayed for a mans faith to fail not also lays down OSAS.

You make God a liar, by claiming that OSAS is trash.

No, again these are your words not mine - you know this and I'm sure in your reply you will acknowledge this honestly.

The Lord Jesus Christ said.

John 10:28-30
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Who are the sheep and who are the thieves in John 10? If I asked you to identify all the sheep in this forum how would you know they are sheep? Do you actually know them, can you look upon their hearts? Do you know they will be saved or not?

OSAS falls over once again! Only the Father and the Son know who is in the Fathers hand @ScottA doesn't, @BlessedPeace doesn't, I do not know who is in His hand - I know the True Gospel is not taught in this forum so where does that place everyone?

The above verses prove that salvation is not dependent on man persevering to the end.

9:35 Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, so he found the man and said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 9:36 The man replied, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” 9:37 Jesus told him, “You have seen him; he is the one speaking with you.” [9:38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him. 9:39 Jesus said,] “For judgment I have come into this world, so that those who do not see may gain their sight, and the ones who see may become blind.” Jn 9:35–39.

What is the condition to enter the door of John 10? The Master has provided it for you above. Come back with your response.

It's the Holy Spirit who keeps them saved, it has noting to do with mans ability to keep himself saved. You have perverted the gospel, to support your false narrative.

Only by Faith are we saved and not by some man-made doctrine!

Salvation was accomplished by God before He created the world, every single person God elected is already saved. That includes everyone after Adam to the present and those who are yet to be born.
All the sins of Gods elect are paid for in full, so all the past sins, present sins and future sins are fully paid for, so there's no way any of the elect can lose their salvation. To suggest they can is a lie from the pits of hell, it's pure blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

I can list around 120 verses of scripture to confirm that God elected His children to salvation before He created the world. So all of your nonsense about losing one's salvation, is Demonic Doctrine. I hope and pray that God opens your eyes, to enable you to receive the truth.

God promised to send strong delusion to those who reject the truth, your false theology reveals that you have been deceived.

His foreknowledge does not preclude how they are saved - yes He knows all things, even those who believe in OSAS who think they are saved and are not! He knows...you do not!

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[face2face]

Faith begets good deeds. Good deeds do not beget faith.

Without faith it is impossible to please Him.
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[face2face]

Thank you for your reply.


I don't see anything in these words of Jesus Christ about a "true Gospel" or what someone claimed "false convert"


This teaching by the Lord is about remaining "in Christ".

Correct - perseverance till the end and not OSAS

I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself, I desire to remain in Christ; to follow Him, to be led by His Spirit.

This is a good desire and if it were to change?

The simple instruction of John here is easy to understand.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Note the condition?

His commandments are not burdensome, there not too hard to keep. His commandments are the very definition of love.

Though can a person be saved without keeping them?

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


People that have no desire to love and follow the Savior, to be led by His Spirit, don't remain in Him. ie: they're not fruitful.

Correct - however, what if that person has been misled to believe OSAS? Here is where their doctrine falls over because they do not know the Mind or Will of the Father - He alone will have mercy on Whom He will have mercy.

Here is what this same Apostle John said about a brother who begins (for whatever reason) to hate his brother.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

True words
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[face2face]

You have arrived now at a point of desperation.
It is sad yet it is to be expected. And we who are in Christ will learn from your example here.

Thank God for that.

Did you read the quotes? Appears not, hmmm you won't learn by resisting.
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[face2face]

I think it means we need to remain in Christ.

What does remain in Christ mean to you?



JLB

JLB, any word in the Bible like "remain" will be an affront to OSAS believers because they assume salvation before its freely given.

Does that makes sense?

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[face2face]

Actually he was saved. Read the passage, he was NEAR to being cursed.

He will not be at the great white throne, He will be at the bema seat. and most likely have alot of wood hay and straw., meaning he has alot of ashes toi show for his labor.. But he himself will be saved as through Fire.

Try again!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Without faith it is impossible to please Him.
F2F

Very good.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Correct - so Who become our Righteousness?
How is that Righteousness obtained?

Judas wasnt a fallen angel - man you have rocks in your head if you believe that. He was a false accuser which is what the Greek means.

I can't believe I'm even having this discussion.



Precisely, which is why OSAS is in the trash - imagine the Lord saying to Judas OSAS? Never happen - even to the Elect!


Correct there will be saved for those who persevere to the end, that much is certain - but you or Scott and anyone in this forum hasn't the foggiest clue who they will be.

Without faith it is impossible to please Him - there is a condition which removes OSAS from the outset.

F2F

What do you mean by "become our righteousness" , who are you referring to by saying "our". Righteousness is not obtained by anyone, it's not advertised as a consumer product for someone to buy or obtain. If God doesn't impute the righteousness of Christ onto a person, they remain condemned. So it's not something man can choose to obtain, that is a Satanic lie.

Why are you saying that God is a liar, Satan did that and look what happened to Him. God said Judas is a Devil, but you say, God is a liar. So you're doing exactly the same as Satan does, He is the false accuser and His children do the same as He does.

You call the work of the Holy Spirit trash and that is pure blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave the elect His Holy Spirit, who keeps us from falling away. Judas was never saved and he never received the Holy Spirit, so that's more Satanic lies from you.

Only Gods elect preserver to the end, because He is the One who saved us and He keeps us saved for all eternity. God never told us the names of all of His elect, so you're right we don't know all of their names and it's not our business to know anyway. That's Gods business, but we are told to judge every tree by it's fruits so we can easily see who is serving God and who is serving Satan, by what they say and how they live.

To suggest that faith is a condition to OSAS is a lie from the pits of hell. You have made "faith" a work and a condition to keep you saved, but the truth is you're dead in sin and you have no faith unless God gives it to you.

Ephesians 2:8–10 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

The verse clearly says that we are saved by "GRACE", and faith is what God gives to those He saves. So it's not your faith that keeps you saved, it's the faith that God gives to His elect as a gift that keeps us saved. It's not your filthy rags faith that you claim as a work to keep you saved.

Man only contributes a stinking corpse to his salvation, anyone who claims that God uses their stinking corpse to add to the finished work of Christ is deluded.

 

[face2face]

What do you mean by "become our righteousness" , who are you referring to by saying "our".

Have you not read "And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption 1 Corinthians 1:30

Christ is our Righteousness!

F2F

 

[face2face]

What do you mean by "become our righteousness" , who are you referring to by saying "our". Righteousness is not obtained by anyone, it's not advertised as a consumer product for someone to buy or obtain. If God doesn't impute the righteousness of Christ onto a person, they remain condemned. So it's not something man can choose to obtain, that is a Satanic lie.

Why are you saying that God is a liar, Satan did that and look what happened to Him. God said Judas is a Devil, but you say, God is a liar. So you're doing exactly the same as Satan does, He is the false accuser and His children do the same as He does.

You have many man made notions bouncing around in your head none of them are from God. Where does it say Judas was a fallen angel? There is no such creature in all the Word of God. Don't bother trying Christian.

You call the work of the Holy Spirit trash

no, you call it trash! I'm saying OSAS is trash!

Best to get that right before you keep flogging a dead horse!

The rest of your post was you running away with some inference which you have created not me.

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[face2face]

Very good.

So you believe that faith is required for salvation - good! Now you can dispense with OSAS!

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[BlessedPeace]

So you believe that faith is required for salvation - good! Now you can dispense with OSAS!

F2F

You hold tightly to conditional reprieve.

You and those like you, continue to insist in your pride filled self serving doctrine that lets you all imagine you can save yourselves and lose your salvation.

You all are preaching to your choir in the mirror.

You have not one relationship,not a single understanding, of the Gospel of Yeshua.


I'll continue,as shall all the Elect of God here, to abide in the eternal irrevocable gift of God's eternal Life through Eternal
Irrevocable Salvation.

Your god is not our God.

I thank God for you and all like you here.

Many think the Scripture is just an old subjective text from a different culture and has no relevance to our contemporary world.

Whereas you all example what Yeshua taught regarding Matthew 22, Mark 4, John 15, and so forth.

You all prove the Eternal Irrevocable Salvation through the Living Gospel is true.

Because we who are eternally irrevocably in God's saving grace see in you all what He warned was there.

Thank you all. Truly.

 

[BlessedPeace]

John 10:28 proves Eternal Irrevocable Salvation is true 4 different ways.

 

[BarneyFife]

You hold tightly to conditional reprieve.

You and those like you, continue to insist in your pride filled self serving doctrine that lets you all imagine you can save yourselves and lose your salvation.

You all are preaching to your choir in the mirror.

You have not one relationship,not a single understanding, of the Gospel of Yeshua.


I'll continue,as shall all the Elect of God here, to abide in the eternal irrevocable gift of God's eternal Life through Eternal
Irrevocable Salvation.

Your god is not our God.

I thank God for you and all like you here.

Many think the Scripture is just an old subjective text from a different culture and has no relevance to our contemporary world.

Whereas you all example what Yeshua taught regarding Matthew 22, Mark 4, John 15, and so forth.

You all prove the Eternal Irrevocable Salvation through the Living Gospel is true.

Because we who are eternally irrevocably in God's saving grace see in you all what He warned was there.

Thank you all. Truly.

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican..."

"Us and them"

.

 

[BlessedPeace]

"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican..."

"Us and them"

.

Thank you too.

 

[Phoneman777]

Don't be fooled by the craftiness of sinful men. These men in the video are dishonest, they misrepresent what perseverance of the saints means.

Amen!

There are no verses in the Bible to suggest that born again believers can live double lives. We can't give ourselves to live lives of sin, if we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. There's a big difference between wrestling against the temptation to sin and being overcome, then repenting and continuing the fight. That's not the same as planning to sin and making provisions for sin.

Amen!

The men in the video deliberately muddy the water by making presumptions about the biblical doctrine of the atonement, which Christ purchased on the cross and imputed it on those His Father gave Him. Christ said, "it is finished" I believe that means that He paid for all the sins of those He came to save. That includes their past, present and future sins.

Amen - on condition that we repent, of course.

Born again believers don't fight against temptation and live sacrificial lives to attain salvation. We do it because we love the Lord so much that we don't want to offend Him, if we love our sin more than we love God then we're not worthy to be called His children. Jesus sent His Holy Spirit to lead us and keep us from being deceived by the enemy.

Amen!

Salvation is 100% of the Lord, He grants us repentance, faith, a new life, wisdom, perseverance, strength and everything else we need to keep us planted by His living waters, so we can endure to the end. God never said that salvation is dependent on anything we can contribute. He is thew author and finisher of our faith, so no man has anything to boast about.

Like the athlete who strains with all his might to bench press a tenth rep but the bar won't budge another inch...until the Spotter with just one finger from each hand curls under the bar and helps him finish the rep.

Does he get credit for 10 reps? Neither do we get credit for the obedience that Jesus - our very present Help in time of need - comes and grants us when we're too weak to obey ourselves.

The OSAS crowd reads "flee fornication" but chooses to crawl away from it, hoping it catches up to them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Thank you too.

Ahhh...the elusive doctrine of "salvation by pronunciation"

 

[face2face]

You hold tightly to conditional reprieve.

It's Biblical and you know it.

You and those like you, continue to insist in your pride filled self serving doctrine that lets you all imagine you can save yourselves and lose your salvation.

It's a reality which is clearly demonstrated in Scripture one your OSAS fantasies will not allow you to see.

You all are preaching to your choir in the mirror.

Worthless opinion

You have not one relationship,not a single understanding, of the Gospel of Yeshua.

Worthless Opinion

I'll continue,as shall all the Elect of God here, to abide in the eternal irrevocable gift of God's eternal Life through Eternal
Irrevocable Salvation.

Irrevocable means you make God a debtor!

Your god is not our God.

That is for sure!

I thank God for you and all like you here.

Subtle!

Many think the Scripture is just an old subjective text from a different culture and has no relevance to our contemporary world.

Whereas you all example what Yeshua taught regarding Matthew 22, Mark 4, John 15, and so forth.

You all prove the Eternal Irrevocable Salvation through the Living Gospel is true.

It's a delusion you hold to - I understand how you have arrived at this false belief but the reality will be very different for you at his coming.

Because we who are eternally irrevocably in God's saving grace see in you all what He warned was there.

Thank you all. Truly.

All I can say is be ready, have an open mind to the possibility your misplaced confidence in a man-made doctrine might not be there for you in the end.

To presume upon His Kindness is a terrible sin, one which Israel did many times throughout history.

F2F