Our hands have handle

[face2face]

So the deception is twofold.

We can deceive ourselves regarding the nature of flesh and how God manifested Himself through that flesh.

The former teaches what we are while the later reveals what we can become.

If we fail to recognise the first or to acknowledge the necessity of the second we deceive ourselves.

As we are seeing these are very deep principles with serious consequences.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Therefore having a full understanding of our nature and its propensities to sin...John teaches:

1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You can immediately see the difference between:

"If we say we have no sin" cmp "If we confess our sins"

In this context, it relates to acknowledging the reality of sins committed, by which we agree with God's estimate of our actions.

John is speaking here to mature responsible believers who understand God, our nature, and His view/repudiation of sin.

F2F

 

[face2face]

A quick note on sin.

John provides us two definitions of sin

1. Lawlessness (1 John 3:4)
2. Unrighteousness or wrong doing(1 John 5:17)

The truly begotten of God never commit (1), but they are guilty of (2). However, Yahweh can cleanse them from the latter
through the influence of His Word.

This may not fully make sense until we better understand the different degrees of sin, a subject we will deal with in 1 John 3. For now it's important to know that some types of sin are considered Lawless, or in a constant state of habitual sin, this is far different to the sin which is being forgiven here in 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 5:17.

These verses have been grossly misrepresented by Christians due to them being dealt with in isolation and not as a whole in the context of the Epistle.

F2F

 

[ChristisGod]

Another deluded Christian.
You have no Biblical basis for your beliefs - that must be a tough position to be in.

Just opinions again I see void of Scripture. So who is really deluded ?

Yes you are between a rock and a hard place.

"Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[face2face]

Just opinions again I see void of Scripture. So who is really deluded ?

Yes you are between a rock and a hard place.

"Could Jesus have sinned?

Absolutely! Otherwise he could not be tempted.

If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Agree completely.

There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned.

And they would be wrong plain and simple.

Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned.

Scripture teaches otherwise. The presence of another will besides his Fathers means sin had potential in him. "not my will but thine be done"

If Jesus was impeccable he could only have one will! It would also mean Jesus Christ had no free will which contravenes Hebrews 11

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Two options seek self or seek God.

Jesus had two wills 1. held in dominion by the other!

If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth.

From here on you move into non Biblical theology, which has no basis at all. You will go on about a god-man and blaa blaa blaa heard it all before. Hebrews 2 tells he he did not have the nature of angels

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

The rest of your post moved away from the Scripture and into creed dogma.

Try talking to me about Christ's nature from Paul's writing! Try talking to me about the internal struggle Christ experience to the point of agony over coming his own will.

If you cant speak to these Scriptural themes you have no light in you.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Christophany

Here I'll make it easy for you.

Hebrews 12:4 In your struggle Christophony against sin you have not yet resisted (sin) to the point of shedding your blood.

Just try talking to this verse. Write a short study on how Christ resisted sin to the point of shedding his own blood - try to force impeccability into this verse. Let's see how you fare.

F2F

 

[face2face]

God is faithful and just to forgive our sins.

John having established God's Grace and that He has made good His promise to do so which He proclaimed at the beginning of creation as per Gen 3:15, He has declared Himself through Christ to be just because the terms of redemption emphasis's that principle
(Rom. 3:23-26)

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He (Yahweh) did this to demonstrate his (not Christ's) righteousness, because in his (Yahwehs) forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Receiving this redemption in Christ Jesus John now presents the 3rd (third) test of discipleship:

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

We will deal with verse 10 next.

 

[Jim B]

Absolutely! Otherwise he could not be tempted.

Agree completely.


And they would be wrong plain and simple.

Scripture teaches otherwise. The presence of another will besides his Fathers means sin had potential in him. "not my will but thine be done"

If Jesus was impeccable he could only have one will! It would also mean Jesus Christ had no free will which contravenes Hebrews 11

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Two options seek self or seek God.

Jesus had two wills 1. held in dominion by the other!


From here on you move into non Biblical theology, which has no basis at all. You will go on about a god-man and blaa blaa blaa heard it all before. Hebrews 2 tells he he did not have the nature of angels

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

The rest of your post moved away from the Scripture and into creed dogma.

Try talking to me about Christ's nature from Paul's writing! Try talking to me about the internal struggle Christ experience to the point of agony over coming his own will.

If you cant speak to these Scriptural themes you have no light in you.

F2F

Jesus did not sin -- ever. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

 

[face2face]

Jesus did not sin -- ever. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Correct - so how was sin represented in him? Think Jim...think hard!

 

[Jim B]

Correct - so how was sin represented in him? Think Jim...think hard!

Sin was never "represented" in Jesus. Read my post #108 again.

 

[face2face]

Sin was never "represented" in Jesus. Read my post #108 again.

I did that's why I asked you the question

Jesus did not sin -- ever. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Again, how were your sins represented in a man who lived 2000 years ago.

The answer is there should you look.

F2F

 

[Jim B]

I did that's why I asked you the question

Jesus did not sin -- ever. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Again, how were your sins represented in a man who lived 2000 years ago.

The answer is there should you look.

F2F

I have better things to do than play your silly game.

 

[face2face]

I have better things to do than play your silly game.

Okay but you posted 2 Corinthians 5:21.

 

[face2face]

I imagine there will be many Christians who hold wrong teaching concerning sin, who will either by ignorance, or willingly "make Him a liar" —To justify sin and repudiate its reality, is itself a sin of the greatest enormity, for it makes God a liar.

This morning my mind was pricked concerning the life of Samson who struggled with sin and broke his Nazarite Vow many times yet God was faithful and just to forgive him his sins because he acknoledged them and pleaded with God to do His Will.

Samson is a life which was plagued by the Lust of the Eyes, The Lust of the Flesh and the Pride of Life.

F2F

 

[face2face]

There is something comforting about Johns writings with him calling us his "Little Children".

We have made it to Chapter 2!

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One 1 John 2:1

As we will see the use of this term little children happens to relate to the theme of the chapter as though who imitate Christ

John writes from the standpoint of "an elder," the last of the Apostles, and he addresses his readers with the tender expression of affection
and endearment, rather than that which is indicative of immaturity and lack of growth. They had been given into his care, and he treats them as a father would his children. The words "little children" are a translation of Teknia which signifies a child, and is related to tikto, "to give birthto."

It therefore emphasises that believers are children by birth, the new birth into Christ. In addition, John uses another word (cp. verse 13) that emphasises children by instruction rather than birth, and both words are significant as indicating the relationship of believers to the Father.

1 John 2:14 I have written to you, children, that you have known the Father.

Teknia is an expression that John uses frequently (12, 28; 3:7, 18; 4:4; 5:21), and one which he borrowed from Christ. The Lord used it to
address the Apostles who remained after Judas had left the little company in the upper room (John 13:33)

Now again there had been defectors who had left the company of believers (1 John 2:19), and John, recalling the expression of the Lord at that tragic moment when Judas left, used it to address those who remained, gently seeking to strengthen them in the face of trials that would test them. John is both patient and considerate, a contrast to his attitude when, as the Son of Thunder (Mark 3:17), he called upon Christ to pray for the destruction of the Samaritans (Luke 9:54-56).

Therefore, it is no coincidence that John would use an endearing title left him by the Lord.

F2F

 

[face2face]

After this John informs us the reason for writing the letter.

This is the third reason given:

Previously he stated that he wrote.
1. To declare things he had personally seen (Ch. 1:3)
2. That their mutual joy might be full in the reaffirming of truth (Ch. 1:4)
3. The third reason is now given: That they might avoid sin (Ch.2:1)

John understood the true nature of the enemy.

Once a person walks in light they can see with clarity the inherent sinful nature they must contend with (1 John 1:8) and that nature will do acts of wrong-doing (his words) which are inevitable (1 John 1:10), but that forgiveness and cleansing from such are available in Christ (1 John 1:9).

The Epistle is masterfully designed and written with such care as to lead the reader to this position of enlightenment.

It is this nature, which he later style's "devil", or false accuser, which becomes the focal point in the letter.

1 John 3:8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil (sin's flesh = Heb 2:14-17 & Romans 8:1-3), who has been sinning since the beginning (i.e carnal mind voiced the Serpent who told the first lie). But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. (Seed of the Serpent vs. Seed of the Woman)

Understanding John's focus on flesh nature and its inherent sinfulness he will now provide encouragement to follow after Christ who crucified the flesh and its lusts.

F2F

 

[face2face]

This teaching of John presents an issue which the Apostle Paul dealt with in his letter to the Romans

Could we presume upon this forgiveness?

"I can walk in the light!" I've heard it said "I have all the required knowledge for me to be saved" - speaking from experience have you ever had this happen?

"Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall"

To sin with impunity placing confidence in forgiveness that we have in Christ is the most hurtful of sins to Him and Jesus.

It was a false philosophy already begining to be discussed in the early churches (Seee Rom 6:1), and now John does likewise. He encourages his readers to avoid sin by manifesting the way of Light in action, though he comforts them with the knowledge that if they
do sin, they have an Advocate with the Father through whom they can plead forgiveness.

 

[face2face]

"we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"

I love this!

The word "Advocate" is parakletos meaning "to call to one's side" or to one's aid, a helper.

A legal term an advocate called in to plead a cause, or a person called in to instil encouragement in a company of depressed/dis-spirited men (such as a company of soldiers facing a dangerous and difficult consignment). Jesus Christ is all this to those who approach
the Father through him.

In John 14:16, the same word is translated "Comforter," and it is related to the Spirit of Truth.

word "comforter" came from the word fortis meaning "brave."

Thus Jesus, in speaking of the difficult and dangerous mission before the Apostles, promised that he would
provide them with a means of help that would fortify and encourage them.

That Advocate, even the Spirit of Truth, is still available to us through the words of the Apostles (read John 17:20-22), so that
we have both an earthly and an heavenly Advocate: The Spirit of Truth and the Lord Jesus Christ.

To be continued...

 

[face2face]

It is the Spirit of Truth which assists us in our approach to the Father, for it helps us to filter prayer so that it conforms to His will.

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. Rom 8:26

I often wonder how our prayers are presented by Christ at the right hand of God?

So our earthly advocate moves us to approach God in prayer, and the prayer is presented to our heavenly advocate.

Paul sums this up in Ephesians 2:18: "For through him (Christ our heavenly Advocate) we both have access by one Spirit (the Truth — our earthly Advocate (1 John 5:6) unto the Father."

It's extremely uncomplicated but for some reason we try add so many things to this process that in the end most are left with confusion.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus Christ is the one who came by water and blood—not by the water only, but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

The earthly advocate testifies to the heavenly.