Our Lord Jesus Said He is God

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mjrhealth

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If the Scripture evidence that Jesus is God which I and others here have shown won't convince you, then rest assured you WILL believe when Jesus comes. Then you can push your doubt and false twisting of the Scriptures to Him personally.
Isnt that what you are doing, when you have seeing God and seeing Jesus you will know they are not one and the same. but all as one as in one accord, agreement,
God didnt have to give Himself anything He already had it all, He even raised His Word, who Is Jesus above Himself and gave him all things. God had no need to raise Himself above Himself.

[MKJV] Mark 9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son. Hear Him
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Davy wrote:

Here's an example that every Jew should be well familiar with, and have NO EXCUSE to deny that Jesus of Nazareth is God The Savior come in the flesh...

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. - KJV

And just to make sure we know that is talking about The Son, the
Isaiah 9:7 verse shows it's the One Who is given to reign upon the throne of David, which of course per the prophets is only for The Son.

Make no mistake. Jesus The Christ is God


...........................




Jews do not consider this scripture as showing the Messiah to be God. In fact the belief is that he cannot be God!

Isaiah 9:6

The NASB says at Is. 9:6 –

“For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”

All Christians, I believe, accept this son as being the Christ. Some trinitsrians will tell you that since the meaning of this symbolic name includes the words “Mighty God, Eternal Father,” then Jesus is the Mighty God and the Eternal Father.”

But there are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles within the name (e.g., “Mighty God”) are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses. (2) the titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.

First, there is the possibility that the words (or titles) found in the literal meaning of the name apply directly to the Messiah but in a subordinate, lesser sense. In other words, Christ is “a mighty god” in the same sense that God’s angels were called “gods” and the judges of Israel were called “gods” by God himself (also by Jesus - John 10:34, 35), and Moses was called “a god” by Jehovah himself.

The word “god” as understood by those who used that term simply meant “one who is mighty in some sense” - see Young’s Concordance. This could include mighty in strength or authority. And the word “Mighty” as found at Is. 9:6 is also applied to the angels at Ps. 103:20.

............................

And second, another way competent Bible scholars have interpreted the meaning of this name is with the understanding that it does not apply directly to the Messiah himself.

This is the same way that many, if not most, of the other Israelites’ personal names (e.g. Abijah, Elijah, Isaiah, Joab, Elihu, etc.) were meant to apply to something or someone other than themselves. Often these personal names are praising or recognizing the Almighty God.

Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today (as mentioned in my post #3 above). The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as “my,” “is,” “of,” etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.

For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name ‘Abram’ “means ‘Exalted Father,’ probably in reference to God (i.e., ‘[God is the] Exalted Father’).” - bracketed information is in the original footnote - bolding is mine.

But perhaps most instructive of all is the name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.

Is. 8:3

Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” - - “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” - - “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” - - “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” - - “There will soon be looting and stealing”- - “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” - - “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” - - “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” - - “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” - - “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” - - “Make haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” - - “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.” - - “Your enemies will soon be destroyed.’” - TLB. - -They hurry to get what they can. They run to pick up what is left.” - NLV.

And John Gill wrote:

“‘hasten to seize the prey, and to take away the spoil.’ Some translate it, ‘in hastening the prey, the spoiler hastens’; perhaps it may be better rendered, ‘hasten to the spoil, hasten to the prey.’”

Therefore, the personal name has been honestly translated in the footnote for Is. 9:6 as:

“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.)

to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

The Leeser Bible also translates it:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:

“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”

Of course it could also honestly be translated:

“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace.”

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[1] “The Mighty God is planning grace;

[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler.”


This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism (“Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz” means [a]“quick to the plunder; [b] swift to the spoil” - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [a]“For unto us a child is born; [b] unto us a son is given.” It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.


So it is clear, even to a trinitarian scholar, that Is. 9:6 was not intended to imply that Jesus is God.
In three words, unconvincing, stereotype, bla bla bla
 

101G

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Who was / is Ray Charles .. the blind pianist. I liked him playing and singing. But did he CONFESS Jesus his God?
first thanks for the reply, second, I liked some of his songs also, but to answer, "did he CONFESS Jesus his God?", ask JESUS, God himself about that.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Heb. 11:3 does not say "through faith." There is no use of dia there. Simply the dative form of 'faith' (pistei) which means to or by faith.
first thanks for the reply, second, that's a poor excuse, for dative, means (in Latin, Greek, German, and other languages) denoting a case of nouns and pronouns, and words in grammatical agreement with them, indicating an indirect object or recipient.
is not "FAITH the "INDIRECT OBJECT?" did you not say,
(At times some translations may render dia as "by," but it is with the intended meaning of "through": "God's law was given by Moses.") Notice its obvious meaning at Matt. 1:22, "what was spoken by [hypo] the Lord through [dia] the prophet" - NASB. Obviously, the Lord was the source of the message and "spoke" through (dia) the prophet!

so is not "FAITH" the indirect OBJECT?

PICJAG.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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John's point was not that Jesus was born in the flesh like us. It was that Jesus is God born in the flesh as 'The Christ'. And to make sure we understand, John thus says those who deny Jesus as The Christ hath not The Father, for to deny Jesus as The Christ is also to deny The Father. But belief on Jesus as The Christ is to have both The Son and The Father.

Amen. Yes. But John's point was that Jesus who was unlike us CONCEIVED OF THE SPIRIT, was like us born "IN THE FLESH" and like us "came" from a womb of flesh like our flesh. John's point was that Jesus was GOD born "in the flesh" the Christ. And to make sure we understand, John says those who deny Jesus "came in the flesh" as GOD Jesus Christ, "hath not The Father". For to deny Jesus Christ GOD "come in the flesh", is to deny the Father. But belief on Jesus Christ as GOD "come in the flesh", <<is to have both The Son and The Father>>.
 
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Davy

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Great work and exegesis!

The only great work involved in those interpretations is the denial that The Christ is part of The Godhead.

Rev 1:5-8
5 And from Jesus Christ, Who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him That loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 'I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending', saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

KJV
 

Davy

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To teach what about the Father? Jesus clearly said that a fundamental characteristic and attribute of deity, was true about the Father, but not true about himself. What in the world did you mean that Jesus digressed in order to speak about the Father for a moment, as if the subject matter or context did not pertain to him also, especially as far as the young ruler was concerned?

You trinitarians just can't keep your stories straight.

You absolutists, you can't fathom basic Bible teachings from Lord Jesus. He didn't go around claiming He was God to the masses. But to the blind unbelieving scribes and Pharisees, He did, more than once, and you absolutists even deny that!

John 10:30-31
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
KJV

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, 'Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?'
58 Jesus said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.'
59 Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV
 

Davy

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this isn't razzle dazzle debating here by answer a question with a question, right? where'd you learn that, tv shows?

if what you saying is true, then why "Son of God"? a distinction the Son of God Himself made sure was understood.

I learned it from my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 

Davy

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Isnt that what you are doing, when you have seeing God and seeing Jesus you will know they are not one and the same. but all as one as in one accord, agreement,
God didnt have to give Himself anything He already had it all, He even raised His Word, who Is Jesus above Himself and gave him all things. God had no need to raise Himself above Himself.

[MKJV] Mark 9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son. Hear Him

All that is flesh reasoning which will never, ever understand how Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.
 

Davy

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Amen. Yes. But John's point was that Jesus who was unlike us CONCEIVED OF THE SPIRIT, was like us born "IN THE FLESH" and like us "came" from a womb of flesh like our flesh. John's point was that Jesus was GOD born "in the flesh" the Christ. And to make sure we understand, John says those who deny Jesus "came in the flesh" as GOD Jesus Christ, "hath not The Father". For to deny Jesus Christ GOD "come in the flesh", is to deny the Father. But belief on Jesus Christ as GOD "come in the flesh", <<is to have both The Son and The Father>>.

The being born in the flesh part is what the Jews have problem with, because of their fleshy thinking. This is why they don't understand how Jesus can be part of The Godhead, even though Christians faithful to The New Testament do understand, because we have many NT Scriptures that make it emphatic that Jesus is God The Son, the "express image" of The Father's person, through Whom The Father created all things.
 

DPMartin

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I learned it from my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

sorry liars use such methods too, not buying the Lord stuff. the Lord speaks straight up, no bull, and your posting don't look that way.
 

Davy

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sorry liars use such methods too, not buying the Lord stuff. the Lord speaks straight up, no bull, and your posting don't look that way.

Oh, what I have declared FROM Bible Scripture, is easy enough to understand for FAITHFUL Christians in Christ Jesus. For those who trust in their flesh, they will never understand that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh.
 

DNB

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The being born in the flesh part is what the Jews have problem with, because of their fleshy thinking. This is why they don't understand how Jesus can be part of The Godhead, even though Christians faithful to The New Testament do understand, because we have many NT Scriptures that make it emphatic that Jesus is God The Son, the "express image" of The Father's person, through Whom The Father created all things.
You keep saying that you understand what you're talking about. It's one thing to be insistent about one's opinion, and being convinced that they have proof-text to support it. But, it's an entirely different issue to claim that you actually understand what you've just concluded.
I believe that you're convinced of your position, but I am absolutely sure that you haven't an iota of understanding or comprehension, of what you're talking about.
You don't seem to even know the difference between the two concepts, apprehension vs comprehension.

...or, if you do, let's hear you explain your god-man theory, or three gods in the divine god-head, equaling one god? You won't even try, so just admit that you have concluded the implausible and incomprehensible from your exegesis of the Bible.
 
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DPMartin

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Oh, what I have declared FROM Bible Scripture, is easy enough to understand for FAITHFUL Christians in Christ Jesus. For those who trust in their flesh, they will never understand that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh.

you still didn't address the question why Son of God?

anyone can declare something, and there have been truck loads men's ideas and theologies for as long as there has been scripture that are hooey that millions have followed based on the same scripture. that doesn't prove a thing. Noah didn't have scripture, or Abraham, how did they know what is the Truth of God?

but it seems you've decided to try to hid the fact that you don't understand why Son of God, if your conclusions are true. how can anyone trust what you say is true, if you don't know why its true?

you say the bible says, so what the bible also says Jesus claimed more than once, that His Father is in Heaven, and John who knows much more than you states that Jesus is the Word made flesh. if you can't tell us why then we must presume you don't know what you're talking about. heck the devil can read the scriptures and says it says this or that and tell you what you ought to think it means. the serpent in the garden did that also didn't he?
 

Davy

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sorry liars use such methods too, not buying the Lord stuff. the Lord speaks straight up, no bull, and your posting don't look that way.

The scribes and Pharisees saw Jesus as a seditionist, so they treated Him as a liar too, so no marvel that they believe those given to spread The Gospel are liars too.
 

Davy

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But that is your flesh reasoning isnt it.

That's silly.

That Jesus is The Christ, The Son of GOD, come in the flesh like Apostle John showed, can only be revealed by The Father in Heaven.

Matt 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, 'But whom say ye that I am?'

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, 'Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father Which is in heaven.'
KJV
 

mjrhealth

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That's silly.

That Jesus is The Christ, The Son of GOD, come in the flesh like Apostle John showed, can only be revealed by The Father in Heaven
No that bit that Jesus is God. That you have being arguing for so long. No one disagrees with taht quoted.