Outer Darkness: a possible destiny for the saved

[Episkopos]

Oh the irony!!! amigo de christo
I think you are a friend of the wrong christo and you advertise it!
You need to be a friend of Christo/Jesus.

As with the many pretenders here who think,.............. why settle for the best when you can settle for less?

 

[JustMe]

The lie is written all over you. You have to walk and chew gum at the SAME TIME.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

You condemn the world because you have not entered into Christ. But Jesus does NOT condemn the world...He condemns those who so.


And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The serpent was NOT lifted up for the world but only for God's people. Only God's people will perish for not believing. The nations will be judged by their works...NOT by believing.

The Spirit of God enters a person's spirit and heart through his Son, rather than the reverse.

There is no act of "entering into Yeshua's spirit" that can be achieved through self-effort, since the person is already and permanently immersed in his life, serving God through saving faith rather than mere surface belief. It indwells within them, and they are therefore placed into him upon conversion.

And so, taking your reasoning to its logical conclusion in your reply to Amigo, you are suggesting that a true believer is someone who makes additional effort beyond what is required for conversion and salvation, in order to be saved and not condemned by God for condemning the world.

That sounds quite confusing.

And then you suddenly state that only God's people will perish for not believing....

There are several ideas in your writing that lack logical cohesion or sense, and therefore no sound conclusion can be drawn from it.

I am left in a daze, wondering what you meant, or whether this is the best you can do in communicating God's word. Maybe it is...

 

[amigo de christo]

We gots far bigger an event to warn against.
Look around at both sides of the aisel .
One sides preaches a social gospel of anti christ
the other side preaches a noahide gospel of anti christ .
WANNA KNOW what both sides have in common . THEY come after me for preaching the one true gospel .
IF i preach it to the left and expose their social gospel pro paliestine , i get cast out .
IF i come and preach the gospel to the right and its noahide pro israel , i get cast out .
NETIHER SIDE follows JESUS . and they both follow ecumeincal incluisivity
and the peace plan of an anti christ . and both cast out the TRUE PEACE PLAN OF GOD which is THE T RUE GOSPEL
that if one DOES BELIEVE IN JESUS they are saved , are reconciled to GOD and have peace with GOD .
The harlot has infiltrated and , as i said before so now i say again , SHE KNOWS exactly what to wear
to seduce any , whether liberal or whether conservative
whether protestant or Catholic
whether buddist , muslim or any other false religoin . SHE has infiltrated them as a wolf always does
Wearing their garments to decieve them all to become as one . under what ALL will beleive is God
and all will beleive is his love and is his peace . SOMEONE is a liar and that someone
and his harlot know exactly how to seduce and lie .

 

[Titus]

How can someone claim to believe in God and not believe what He says?

And you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about?

John 8:31,
- then Jesus said to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, then ye are My disciples

Jesus teaches only those who believe His word are His disciples.
Those are the true believers.

2John 9:10,
- whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ(His word),
he hath not God
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ(His word) he hath both the Father and the Son



I have no idea what I'm talking about?

John 8:47,
- he that is of God heareth Gods words(believes and obeys them)

- ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not from God

According to Jesus the true believers are those who believe His word.

Therefore believing what Jesus says is not required in OSAS.
Only mental assent(believing some Biblical facts, death, burial, ressurection) at one time in a person's life saves them and from then on they do not have to do anything Jesus says to be saved, keeping His commandments.

More proof,
I've heard in multiple debates the OSAS proponents admit to the question givenn.

Question: If you came to my home and murdered me and right as you left before you repented of this sin you died. Would you be saved?

Answer: Yes, nothing man does can separate him from Gods grace once he believed.

Jesus' word says = believing what He says and obeying what He says is true Biblical belief.

Matthew 19:18,
- He saith unto him, which? Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no muder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness

The OSAS believer believes one can disobey God and still be saved because nothing we do can seperate us from Gods grace, love, mercy.

This is unbelief according to Jesus.
If you dont believe what Jesus' word says then you are being saved in unbelief.
Therefore the doctrine of OSAS does teach one can be saved if they die an unbeliever.

To claim the man who murdered was never really saved because of his wicked sin,
Disproves one is saved by belief alone.
In reality one must believe and obey Gods word to be truly saved.
This proves Gods commandments are required to be saved not just belief alone apart from obedience.



Wrong, It is true Biblical faith.

twice dead,

1. The wage of sin is death, the first death,

2. The second death -
Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

twice dead.

as for Jude

. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord [b]God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

since when were people who were long ago marked for condemnation. Ungodly men, who deny christ ever saved?

Sam Morris, pastor of First Baptist Church in Stanford Texas wrote a tract titled:
" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

Back to my question.
What is belief then?
ET, believes the same doctrine.

But how can you say you believe when you dont believe you must obey Jesus' commandments?

Morris says you can murder and not be lost if you once believed.

How is that belief?
John 5:24,
- verily, verily, I say to unto you, He that heareth My word and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life...

John 12:48,
- He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath the one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day

John 10:27,
- My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me

True Biblical belief is not just belief in some Biblical facts, death, burial, ressurection, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
True believers believe in Jesus and His word.

1John 3:15,
- whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him

Since OSAS teaches one can murder and go to heaven. Therefore even unbelievers who once believed in the past can be saved.

Not believing in Jesus is not believing you must believe all of His word.

Matthew 19:17-19,
- he saith unto Him, which, Jesus said,...
Thou shalt do no muder....

- If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments

I've listened to debates where the question is asked to the OSAS proponent:
" If you come to my home and murder me, then leave and before you repented you died.
Would you still go to heaven? "

The OSAS believer says yes to the question.

Even unbelievers in OSAS can go to heaven. If they believed only once in their lifetime.

Unless you want to argue that not believing in Jesus' word only in His death, burial and ressurection is Biblical belief.

I believe in Jesus and what His word says.
Hebrews 5:8-9.

 

[Titus]

He said we are made children because we recieve him in faith (john 1: 12)

He said if we ask, he will give us living water flowing to eternal life (john 4)

He said if we look to the cross in faith. we will never perish, but have eternal life
John 3)

He said if we see and believe, we will not ocme to judgment, but as passed from death to life (john 5)

He said if we eat the food which endures forever. the bread from heaven, we will never perish, we will live forever. we will never die. we will never be lost, we will be raised on the last day. etc etc.

so why do you not believe him when he said these things?

Why do you not believe when Jesus gives a commandment from His word like do not murder.
You still teach belief saves without believing in Jesus' commandments?

Question: Can a believer murder and before repentance he dies, still be saved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sam Morris, pastor of First Baptist Church in Stanford Texas wrote a tract titled:
" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

Back to my question.
What is belief then?
ET, believes the same doctrine.

But how can you say you believe when you dont believe you must obey Jesus' commandments?

Morris says you can murder and not be lost if you once believed.

How is that belief?
John 5:24,
- verily, verily, I say to unto you, He that heareth My word and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life...

John 12:48,
- He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath the one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day

John 10:27,
- My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me

True Biblical belief is not just belief in some Biblical facts, death, burial, ressurection, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
True believers believe in Jesus and His word.

1John 3:15,
- whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him

Since OSAS teaches one can murder and go to heaven. Therefore even unbelievers who once believed in the past can be saved.

Not believing in Jesus is not believing you must believe all of His word.

Matthew 19:17-19,
- he saith unto Him, which, Jesus said,...
Thou shalt do no muder....

- If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments

I've listened to debates where the question is asked to the OSAS proponent:
" If you come to my home and murder me, then leave and before you repented you died.
Would you still go to heaven? "

The OSAS believer says yes to the question.

Even unbelievers in OSAS can go to heaven. If they believed only once in their lifetime.

Unless you want to argue that not believing in Jesus' word only in His death, burial and ressurection is Biblical belief.

I believe in Jesus and what His word says.
Hebrews 5:8-9.

Just because their are false teachers does not mean we should counter it with other false teaching

Licentiousness and legalism are both condemned

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why do you not believe when Jesus gives a commandment from His word like do not murder.
You still teach belief saves without believing in Jesus' commandments?

Question: Can a believer murder and before repentance he dies, still be saved?

Can one who bears false witness and then dies get to heaven by grace

And why?

 

[JimKnox]

It is true.
OSAS teaches one can become an unbeliever and still be saved. Salvation according to this doctrine has nothing to do with the works of the saved.
Otherwise salvation is based on what man does not on what Christ alone did.

Not believing Jesus' word is according to Jesus not believing in Him.
John 8:31,
- then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, if ye continue in My word then ye are My disciples indeed

ET, you believe as you've told me multiple times. Obeying Jesus' commandments from His word has no relationship with ones salvation.
1John 3:23-24,
- and this is His commandment that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment

OSAS is a doctrine of mental belief once and zero effort like obeying Gods commandments to be saved or to stay saved.

You are misrepresenting OSAS and therefore are lying in order to defend your doctrine.
Hence, you are teaching doctrines of devils since Satan is the father of lies.
Shame on you.

 

[Titus]

You are misrepresenting OSAS and therefore are lying in order to defend your doctrine.
Hence, you are teaching doctrines of devils since Satan is the father of lies.
Shame on you.

Sam Morris is OSAS Baptist preacher.
I literally quoted him.

He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

Back to my question.
What is belief then?
ET, believes the same doctrine.

But how can you say you believe when you dont believe you must obey Jesus' commandments?

Morris says you can murder and not be lost if you once believed.

How is that lying?

 

[Titus]

Can one who bears false witness and then dies get to heaven by grace

And why?

Answer my question.
No more dodging,

Why do you not believe when Jesus gives a commandment from His word like do not murder.
You still teach belief saves without believing in Jesus' commandments?

Question: Can a believer murder and before repentance he dies, still be saved?

 

[JimKnox]

Sam Morris is OSAS Baptist preacher.
I literally quoted him.

How is that lying?

You just finished saying that OSAS believes you can sin all you want after you are saved.
Stop gaslighting.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh the irony!!! amigo de christo
I think you are a friend of the wrong christo and you advertise it!
You need to be a friend of big C Christo and big J Jesus.

just a friendly reminder to you inclusivains .
ANYONE who links arms with any false religoin and prays for world peace
MAY AS WELL be praying with satan to who they THINK is GOD for world peace .
Cause all them other religoins from the muslim on down to the hindu and buddist , atheist or ag nostic
and yes even the jews who beleive NOT JESUS is the CHRIST .
Your holding hands with darkness .
IT would be just like one saying HEY e veryone we need to gather with satan and pray to GOD for world peace .
SO KEEP that in mind inclusivians . These nimords in the nar realm as well as the catholic realm
are calling for us all to pray along side WITH ALL RELIGOINS for world peace .
Talk about delusion . that is no different than saying LETS PRAY WITH SATAN for world peace .
I sure hope you aint bought into it .

 

[amigo de christo]

As with the many pretenders here who think,.............. why settle for the best when you can settle for less?

hey epi . i have a serious question for you .
IF i asked you to pray WITH satan for world peace would you be ignorant enough to do it .
SO DO KEEP THAT IN MIND , inclusivians .
Cause when these nimrods in the nar realm with their queen paula and king trump
be asking us all to join hands with all religions for world peace , THAT IS Exactly what they are doing .
OH wait the Catholic realm leads in it too .
And i sure hope you realize that is a major anti christ no no . world peace my hind foot
that peace plan is of many anti christs who sell to this world a harlots love . her all inclusive love .
And you all are buying into it .

 

[amigo de christo]

repent and beleive . its on t hose who refuse to do so , their damnation awaits .
As the damanation of all who by means of false inclusvie love made void
the dire necessity to beleive from the heart that GOD rose Christ from the dead and to confess him by mouth .
And a lip service from a heart that still loves and clings to the sins , IS A FALSE conversion epi .

HEY epi that you my friend . preaching an all inclusive gopsel that has made void
the dire necessity to even have to BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST .
To believe f rom the heart that GOD has rose him from the dead and to con fess him by mouth .
For with the heart man BELIEVES unto righteousness and by confession unto Salvation .
HELLO EPI . when i went to preach the dire necessity to that there atheist
THERE you were twisting things to him .
WHEN I made mention of his dire need to beleive on JESUS , there you were to call IT RELIGOUS extremism .
I know , and have long known what inclusivism is , and it IS NOT OF GOD . you better flee it .
And now allow ME to warn the lip only ones . cause you cannot help them , you deny the true gospel .
SO allow me to warn the lip only ones , HEY YOU ALL are as lost as i once was too .
But dont heed epi either . HE wont even preach the dire need to even have to FIRST BELEIVE ON JESUS .
so that is all in vain . As is lip only in vain as well . hope that helps you understand epi .

 

[Titus]

You just finished saying that OSAS believes you can sin all you want after you are saved.
Stop gaslighting.

Wrong, I'm not making up anything.
I literally quoted a well respected Baptist Preacher who explains the doctrine himself.

Sam Morris, pastor of First Baptist Church in Stanford Texas wrote a tract titled:
" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone.

He says salvation has nothing to do with ones sins after they have believed.

I've been told by multiple believers in this doctrine the exact same thing.
I'm only repeating what folks who believe this doctrine have told me.

 

[Titus]

You just finished saying that OSAS believes you can sin all you want after you are saved.
Stop gaslighting.

With regards to ones salvation that's what OSAS teach.
You are taking issue with the doctrine not me.

 

[JimKnox]

It is true.
OSAS teaches one can become an unbeliever and still be saved.

OSAS is a doctrine of mental belief once and zero effort like obeying Gods commandments to be saved or to stay saved.

Did you or did you not post this?
This is a blatant misrepresentation of OSAS.
And THIS is the target of my accusation.

 

[JimKnox]

With regards to ones salvation that's what OSAS teach.
You are taking issue with the doctrine not me.

That is NOT what OSAS says.

 

[Titus]

Did you or did you not post this?
This is a blatant misrepresentation of OSAS.
And THIS is the target of my accusation

Not at all.
If you had read all of my posts.
You would have learned that belief must be defined Biblically.
I've already explained when OSAS claim belief alone saves, they redefine the meaning.
Jesus taught true Biblical belief is belief in Him and His word.
To claim you believe then claim ones obedience to Jesus' commandments has nothing to do with eternal life is in reality treaching one can be saved in unbelief.

Listen: You cannot claim you believe at the same time violating Jesus' word.
Morris teaches you can violate Jesus' word and still be saved by belief alone.
This is in reality receiving eternal life in unbelief.

Pay close attention to what Jesus teaches is required for eternal life.

John 5:24,
- verily, verily, I say to unto you, He that heareth My word and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life...

John 12:48,
- He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath the one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day

John 10:27,
- My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me

True Biblical belief is not just belief in some Biblical facts, death, burial, ressurection, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
True believers believe in Jesus and His word.

OSAS teaches eternal life is attained by belief alone and believing in Gods word plays no part.
This doctrine is unscriptual and a fictional made up fable.

" Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul? "

Morris: " We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn His soul.
The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of his soul. That is settled in Christ and Christ alone."

Morris argues that even serious sins(I thought all sin were serious), including Idolatry and murder, do not place a Christian's soul in greater danger of damnation.
He argues that religious activity and good deeds do not make a Christian's soul more secure.

Morris is a OSAS proponent.
His belief is once one believes they are eternally saved based only on their belief alone

Its impossible to seperate Jesus' word from belief and it be true Biblical belief.

 

[Titus]

You understand Jesus' word teaches one cannot commit sin?
Therefore to claim ones sins dont matter in erenal life is teaching Jesus' word which teaches not to commit sin does not have to be believed to inherit eternal life.
This is why OSAS is a false doctrine.