OVERCOMING

[1stCenturyLady]

And again you tried to evade the point.

What are you talking about. I haven't a clue as you make no sense.

 

[CoreIssue]

What are you talking about. I haven't a clue as you make no sense.

Of course you don't. Catholics are so indoctrinated they can't hear anything else.

The catholic church is not spiritual Israel. The catholic church does not exist in the bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

Of course you don't. Catholics are so indoctrinated they can't hear anything else.

The catholic church is not spiritual Israel. The catholic church does not exist in the bible.

i dunno, i see Sanhedrin in there no prob myself?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Of course you don't. Catholics are so indoctrinated they can't hear anything else.

The catholic church is not spiritual Israel. The catholic church does not exist in the bible.

Seeing as I'm not Catholic, I still haven't a clue to your ramblings.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I am of the opion that all references to overcoming is to be applied to Israel and not the Body of Christ.


The churches in Revelation are churches in the future. The book of Revelation concerns Israel.

2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Revelation 2:7

The tree of life will be found in the new Jerusalem, the future eartly kingdom of Israel.

21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2

The body of Christ has a future in the heavenly places not the earthly.

1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3

It is for Israel to reign over the nations on earth.

2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: Revelation 2:26

5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 5:10

The book of life is for Israel.

3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Revelation 3:5

Revelation 21:27 refers once again to the new Jerusalem on earth.

21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 21:27

3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

To him that overcometh will be granted to sit on the throne.

3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Revelation 3:21

To sit on the throne was allocated to the Jews.

19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

He that overcometh shall obtain the inheritance.

21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Revelation 21:7

Israel will inherit the kingdom.

25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Israel will overcome.

5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?1 John 5:5

Doug, do you really think that overcoming applies to Israel and not Christians?

The seven Christian churches of Asia Minor addressed in Revelation were not future churches. They were actual local churches. Now, if Revelation had talked about 1st Baptist of Anytown, USA, that would have been a future church.

The last verse you quoted applies to Christians. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 John 5:5) The verse right before the one you quoted says, "This is the victory that has conquered the world: our faith." These verses are talking about those who have faith in Jesus Christ--Christians.

What is your theology based on, hyper-dispensationalism?

 

[CoreIssue]

Seeing as I'm not Catholic, I still haven't a clue to your ramblings.

You are one confusing person.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are one confusing person.

And you are going on ignore!

 

[CoreIssue]

And you are going on ignore!

Your choice.

 

[Dave L]

You seem to believe if you say that often enough it will become true. That it will not.

Jesus IS Israel as revealed in the New Covenant. He is Abraham's seed (singular) and Matthew says he is Israel in Hosea 11:1.

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)
“And [Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

If all the promises of God are Yes in Jesus, how can any but believers lay claim to them?

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus IS Israel as revealed in the New Covenant. He is Abraham's seed (singular) and Matthew says he is Israel in Hosea 11:1.

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)
“And [Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

If all the promises of God are Yes in Jesus, how can any but believers lay claim to them?

“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

You keep trying to spin everything into things the bible doesn't say.

It does not say Jesus is Israel. It says Jacob is Israel. Jesus is not even mentioned directly, but prophetically.

I guess you also believe Jesus is actually Melchizedek.

[URL='https://www.biblehub.com/genesis/35-10.htm']Genesis 35:10
New International Version[/URL]
God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.

 

[Dave L]

You keep trying to spin everything into things the bible doesn't say.

It does not say Jesus is Israel. It says Jacob is Israel. Jesus is not even mentioned directly, but prophetically.

I guess you also believe Jesus is actually Melchizedek.

Genesis 35:10
New International Version
God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.

And Jesus IS Israel revealed under the New Covenant, Jacob's descendant, and Abraham's seed (singular).

 

[CoreIssue]

And Jesus IS Israel revealed under the New Covenant, Jacob's descendant, and Abraham's seed (singular).

Never said any where.

 

[Dave L]

Never said any where.

Matthew said so when he used Hosea 11:1 as a fulfillment of prophecy. Israel = God's Son.

 

[CoreIssue]

Matthew said so when he used Hosea 11:1 as a fulfillment of prophecy. Israel = God's Son.

Verse?

 

[Taken]

Jesus Christ already accomplished Overcoming the World (ie Corruption),
It is men who are in the "process" (babes being born, growing, becoming men,) and "some" choosing to be included in "overcoming" (or not).

Christ Jesus' Church, are those who believe, Jesus died, and rose up to life, by the Power of God.

Presently that includes very few Jews, (ie the few Messianic Jews).
That will begin changing on a large scale, during the 5th seal opening during the Tribulation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Verse?

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)
“And {Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

So Matthew calls Jesus "Israel" And many times throughout the OT God refers to Israel as the people "called by My name". [Israel]

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

 

[Taken]

Matthew said so when he used Hosea 11:1 as a fulfillment of prophecy. Israel = God's Son.

No.
Israel is Gods People.
1 Sam 9:16

Those given to Christ Jesus, are His.
John 6:39

By the end of the Tribulation all who have Overcome, God shall be their God, and men shall be His son.
Rev 21:7

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CoreIssue]

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)
“And {Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

So Matthew calls Jesus "Israel" And many times throughout the OT God refers to Israel as the people "called by My name". [Israel]

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

I already answered this. Israel is Jacob, not Christ.

As Jacob was called out so was Christ.

There are many such comparisons in the bible on different issues.

Matthew

14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.

16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:

18 “A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.

Jesus is never called Israel nor is Israel ever called Jesus.

Matthew never mentions Jacob or Israel.

 

[bbyrd009]

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)
“And {Jesus] was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.” (Matthew 2:15)

So Matthew calls Jesus "Israel" And many times throughout the OT God refers to Israel as the people "called by My name". [Israel]

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

don't like what Scripture says? Scribe!

lol

 

[bbyrd009]

There are many such comparisons in the bible on different issues.

ah, those vv are not in his Bible i guess; you are required to operate within his. Didn't he post his rules to you yet? i think i have a copy somewhere :)