Passover vs Eucharist

[RogerDC]

More evasion and another vacuous non-answer. Which Church is "His Church"? Tell me where I can find it.

Paul went to the Church leaders to have his preaching (doctrines) approved (Gal 2:1-2). If Paul were alive today, which Church would he go to for that approval?

 

[Illuminator]

It is incorrect to regard St. Paul as some kind of spiritual “lone ranger,” on his own with no particular ecclesiastical allegiance, since he was commissioned by Jesus Himself as an Apostle.

• In his very conversion experience, Jesus informed Paul that he would be told what to do (Acts 9:6; cf. 9:17).
• He went to see St. Peter in Jerusalem for fifteen days in order to be confirmed in his calling (Galatians 1:18),
• and fourteen years later was commissioned by Peter, James, and John (Galatians 2:1-2, 9).
• He was also sent out by the Church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-4), which was in contact with the Church at Jerusalem (Acts 11:19-27).
• Later on, Paul reported back to Antioch (Acts 14:26-28).
• Acts 15:2 states: “. . . Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.”
• The next verse refers to Paul and Barnabas “being sent on their way by the church.”
• Paul did what he was told to do by the Jerusalem Council (where he played no huge role), and Paul and Barnabas were sent off, or commissioned by the council (15:22-27), and shared its binding teachings in their missionary journeys: “. . . delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem” (Acts 16:4).

The attempt to pretend that St. Paul was somehow on his own, disconnected to the institutional Church, has always failed, as unbiblical.

QUESTION:
If you agree that Paul was commissioned as an apostle “by Jesus Himself” then does he derive his apostleship from Jesus or from Peter?

ANSWER:
Both. Why do you feel compelled to make a choice? It’s the usual Protestant “either/or” dichotomous mentality. Calvin does the same thing repeatedly.

 

[Illuminator]

As I said HIS Church because the gates of hell will not prevail against it. If it is not HIS church then the gates of hell will prevail against it so I will be flogging a dead horse.

Just two brief questions:

1. If the gates of the Protestant Revolt prevailed and wiped out the historic Church, would that be a sign that it was from God?
2. The immediate fruits of the Protestant Revolt was division, sectarianism, religious intolerance/persecution, looting, theft of churches, theological chaos and censorship. Are these signs that it was from God?

 

[marksman]

More evasion and another vacuous non-answer. Which Church is "His Church"? Tell me where I can find it.

Paul went to the Church leaders to have his preaching (doctrines) approved (Gal 2:1-2). If Paul were alive today, which Church would he go to for that approval?

Your theological nous is sadly wanting.

Mat 16:18 So I will call you Peter, which means "a rock." On this rock I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it.

There you have it. The church that Jesus said he would build. If you don't know what it is then it is obvious that you are not part of it.

 

[marksman]

I'm happy for you, and I do understand. But some people on this board attack our heart felt beliefs with blasphemous insults out of ignorance and prejudice. We have a right to defend and explain, but some people want to deny us the same right they claim for themselves.

There are different senses in which the term "church" is used. You and RogerDC use the same word but in different senses, different meanings. It won't happen anytime soon, but until we can agree on a mutual, workable definition of "church", these discussions just go in circles.

I explained how the Eucharist in the Upper Room is one and the same sacrifice as Calvary in detail on page 26, and I explained the primacy of Peter in part on page 27, and both stand unrefuted, yet the denials and lunacy continues.

They have been refuted many times but when one is wedded onto ideology it is hard to see the truth.

 

[Illuminator]

They have been refuted many times but when one is wedded onto ideology it is hard to see the truth.

You can't or won't answer my questions because you are afraid of the truth.

 

[Grailhunter]

I haven't eaten Jesus flesh and I haven't drunk his blood but I know without a shadow of a doubt I have eternal life.

Funny that you would say eternal life!
Do you know what it meant when Christ said Truly, truly? John 6:53 Truly, truely, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
If you do not do this and believe, He does not abide in you, you have no eternal life, and He will not raise you in the end.
What does that mean? Are going to be scratching on the inside of your casket? Are you going to be a Ghost? Christ gave no if's and's or but's. So startling that most of the people around Him walked away, even His disciples. He even asked the Apostles if they were going to leave too? It is not a metaphorical statement, He never says Truly, truly for parables or metaphorical statements. And what He described here was performed at the Last Supper.

 

[Behold]

Ummmm....That doesn't make sense to me.

If it's an issue of deception (deceiving from the Truth) then it IS an issue of truth.

Mary

Well, the truth is that Peter isn't the first pope.
He was just an apostle.
God didnt even let him write most of the NT.
I mean, if you set aside the circus concerning Peter as pope, and you just look at the Bible.
its pretty obvious that Paul would be the Logical Pope, as Paul wrote most of the NT, and all of the doctrine for The Church.

We at this time are existing within the 'church age", and this is the "time of the Gentiles".
Paul is the "apostle to the Gentiles'... not peter.

So, why was peter assumed to be what he's not?
because of the misunderstanding of the name "rock".
The early catholic fathers didnt understand that Jesus was talking about the revelation that Peter had concerning the reality of Jesus as Messiah.
That is the "ROCK" that God built His Church upon.
The Rock is Christ, not a saved fisherman.

 

[RogerDC]

Your theological nous is sadly wanting.

Mat 16:18 So I will call you Peter, which means "a rock." On this rock I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it.

There you have it. The church that Jesus said he would build. If you don't know what it is then it is obvious that you are not part of it.

In other words, you can't tell me where where the Church can be found today, and you can't tell where, as Paul did, one would go for correct doctrine and to settle doctrinal disputes. I feel sorry for you - you must feel very alone and lost, not knowing where to find the Church and not knowing what correct doctrine looks like.
.
.

 

[RogerDC]

Your theological nous is sadly wanting.

Mat 16:18 So I will call you Peter, which means "a rock." On this rock I will build my church, and death itself will not have any power over it.

There you have it. The church that Jesus said he would build. If you don't know what it is then it is obvious that you are not part of it.

I DO know what the Church is - I also know her name and where to find her ... but you don't.
Your vacuous non-answers not only paint you as an ignoramus, they make trying to have an intelligent dialogue with you somewhat futile

 

[RogerDC]

I have a feeling that this is another reason why the claim by the catholic church that when you drink the wine you are drinking the blood of Jesus is false. I have told them it was forbidden to drink blood but they insist that it did not apply to drinking Jesus blood.

It is not physical blood that is drunk - it is the blood of Jesus in the physical form of wine. God can be present in any form of matter he so chooses. Do you doubt his power?

 

[Marymog]

Well, the truth is that Peter isn't the first pope.
He was just an apostle.
God didnt even let him write most of the NT.
I mean, if you set aside the circus concerning Peter as pope, and you just look at the Bible.
its pretty obvious that Paul would be the Logical Pope, as Paul wrote most of the NT, and all of the doctrine for The Church.

We at this time are existing within the 'church age", and this is the "time of the Gentiles".
Paul is the "apostle to the Gentiles'... not peter.

So, why was peter assumed to be what he's not?
because of the misunderstanding of the name "rock".
The early catholic fathers didnt understand that Jesus was talking about the revelation that Peter had concerning the reality of Jesus as Messiah.
That is the "ROCK" that God built His Church upon.
The Rock is Christ, not a saved fisherman.

Well the truth is that Scripture and Christian history disagrees with you:
The evidence from Holy Scripture suggest your theory is wrong.

1. Matthew 16:18: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."


2. Matthew 16:19: "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven."

The "power" of the keys has to do with ecclesiastical discipline and administrative authority with regard to the requirements of the faith, as in Isaiah 22:22 (see Is 9:6; Jb 12:14; Rv 3:7). From this power flows the use of censures, excommunication, absolution, baptismal discipline, the imposition of penances and legislative powers. In the Old Testament, a steward, or prime minister, is a man who is "over a: house" (Gn 41:40; 43:19; 44:4; 1 Kgs 4:6; 16:9; 18:3; 2 Kgs 10:5; 15:5; 18:18; Is 22:15, 20-21).

3. Matthew 16:19: "Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

"Binding" and "loosing" were technical rabbinical terms, which meant to "forbid" and 'permit" with reference to the interpretation of the law and, secondarily, to "condemn," "place under the ban" or "acquit." Thus St. Peter and the popes are given the authority to determine the rules for doctrine and life by virtue of revelation and the Spirit's leading (see Jn 16:13), as well as to demand obedience from the Church. "Binding and loosing" represent the legislative and judicial powers of the papacy and the bishops (Mt 18:17-18; Jn 20:23). St. Peter, however, is the only apostle who receives these powers by name and in the singular, making him pre-eminent.

4. Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (see Mt 10:2; Mk 3:16; Lk 6:14; Acts 1:13). Matthew even calls him "the first" (10:2). (Judas Iscariot is invariably mentioned last.)

5. Peter is almost without exception named first whenever he appears with anyone else. In one example to the contrary, Galatians 2:9, where he is listed after James and before John, he is clearly pre-eminent in the entire context (see, for example, 1:18-19; 2:7-8).

6. Peter alone among the apostles receives a new name, "Rock," solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42; Mt 16:18).

7. Likewise, Peter is regarded by Jesus as the chief shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28; 1 Pt 5:2).

8. Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his "faith fail not" (Lk 22:32).

9. Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to "strengthen your brethren" (Lk 22:32).

10. Peter first confesses Christ's divinity (Mt 16:16).

11. Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).

12. Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.

13. Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).

14. Jesus Christ uniquely associates himself and Peter in the miracle of the tribute money (Mt 17:24-27).

15. Christ teaches from Peter's boat, and the miraculous catch of fish follows (Lk 5:1-11): perhaps a metaphor for the pope as a "fisher of men" (Mt 4:19).

16. Peter was the first apostle to set out for, and enter, the empty tomb (Lk 24:12; Jn 20:6).

17. Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mk 16:7).

18. Peter leads the apostles in fishing (Jn 21:2-3,11). The "bark" (boat) of Peter has been regarded by Catholics as a figure of the Church, with Peter at the helm.

19. Peter alone casts himself into the sea to come to Jesus (Jn 21:7).

20. Peter's words are the first recorded and most important in the Upper Room before Pentecost (Acts 1:15-22).

21. Peter takes the lead in calling for a replacement for Judas (Acts 1:22).

22. Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, so he was the first Christian to "preach the Gospel" in the Church era (Acts 2:14-36).

23. Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12).

24. Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) emphatically affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11).

25. Peter's shadow works miracles (Acts 5:15).

26. Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40).

27. Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6).

28. Peter is the first to receive the Gentiles, after a revelation from God (Acts 10:9-48).

29. Peter instructs the other apostles on the catholicity (universality) of the Church (Acts 11:5-17)

30. Peter is the object of the first divine interposition on behalf of an individual in the Church Age (an angel delivers him from prison-Acts 12:1-17).

31. The whole Church (strongly implied) prays for Peter "without ceasing" when he is imprisoned (Acts 12:5).

32. Peter presides over and opens the first council of Christianity, and lays down principles afterward accepted by it (Acts 15:7-11).

33. Paul distinguishes the Lord's postresurrection appearances to Peter from those to other apostles (1 Cor 15:4-5).

34. Peter is often spoken of as distinct among apostles (Mk 1:36; Lk 9:28, 32; Acts 2:37; 5:29; 1 Cor 9:5).

35. Peter is often spokesman for the other apostles, especially at climactic moments (Mk 8:29; Mt 18:21; Lk 9:5; 12:41; Jn 6:67).

36. Peter's name is always the first listed of the "inner circle" of the disciples (Peter, James and John-Mt 17:1; 26:37, 40; Mk 5:37; 14:37).

37. Peter is often the central figure relating to Jesus in dramatic Gospel scenes such as walking on the water (Mt 14:28-32; Lk 5:1, Mk 10:28; Mt 17:24).

38. Peter is the first to recognize and refute heresy, in Simon Magus (Acts 8:14-24).

39. Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together: 191 times (162 as Peter or Simon Peter, 23 as Simon and 6 as Cephas). John is next in frequency with only 48 appearances, and Peter is present 50 percent of the time we find John in the Bible. Archbishop Fulton Sheen reckoned that all the other disciples combined were mentioned 130 times. If this is correct, Peter is named a remarkable 60 percent of the time any disciple is referred to.

40. Peter's proclamation at Pentecost (Acts 2:14-41) contains a fully authoritative interpretation of Scripture, a doctrinal decision and a disciplinary decree concerning members of the "House of Israel"-an example of "binding and loosing."

41. Peter was the first "charismatic," having judged authoritatively the first instance of the gift of tongues as genuine (Acts 2:14-21).

42. Peter is the first to preach Christian repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38).

43. Peter (presumably) takes the lead in the first recorded mass baptism (Acts 2:41).

44. Peter commanded the first Gentile Christians to be baptized (Acts 10:44-48).

45. Peter was the first traveling missionary, and first exercised what would now be called "visitation of the churches" (Acts 9:32- 38, 43). Paul preached at Damascus immediately after his conversion (Acts 9:20), but had not traveled there for that purpose (God changed his plans). His missionary journeys begin in Acts 13:2.

46. Paul went to Jerusalem specifically to see Peter for 15 days at the beginning of his ministry (Gal 1:18), and was commissioned by Peter, James and John (Gal 2:9) to preach to the Gentiles.

47. Peter acts, by strong implication, as the chief bishop/shepherd of the Church (1 Pt 5:1), since he exhorts all the other bishops, or "elders."

48. Peter interprets prophecy (2 Pt 1:16-21).

49. Peter corrects those who misuse Paul's writings (2 Pt 3:15- 16).

50. Peter wrote his first epistle from Rome, according to most scholars, as its bishop, and as the universal bishop (pope) of the early Church. "Babylon" (1 Pt 5:13) is regarded as code for Rome.

So Scripture proves you wrong. In my next segment we will see how Christian history proves you wrong.

 

[Marymog]

Well, the truth is that Peter isn't the first pope.
He was just an apostle.
God didnt even let him write most of the NT.
I mean, if you set aside the circus concerning Peter as pope, and you just look at the Bible.
its pretty obvious that Paul would be the Logical Pope, as Paul wrote most of the NT, and all of the doctrine for The Church.

We at this time are existing within the 'church age", and this is the "time of the Gentiles".
Paul is the "apostle to the Gentiles'... not peter.

So, why was peter assumed to be what he's not?
because of the misunderstanding of the name "rock".
The early catholic fathers didnt understand that Jesus was talking about the revelation that Peter had concerning the reality of Jesus as Messiah.
That is the "ROCK" that God built His Church upon.
The Rock is Christ, not a saved fisherman.

Lets see if the first 200 years of Christian history agrees with your theory:

Clement of Alexandria
“[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? ‘Behold, we have left all and have followed you’ [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28]” (Who Is the Rich Man That Is Saved? 21:3–5 [A.D. 200]).


Tertullian
“For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]” (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]).

“[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church” (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

The Letter of Clement to James
“Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed” (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).

Origen
“f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter . . . a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens” (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

Nope, the first 200 years of Christian history doesn't agree with your theory. Lets see what current Protestant bible scholars have to say:

Walter Bauer (Non-Catholic), A Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament, on Πέτρος, p. 809: “… Peter, surname of the head of the circle of Twelve Disciples, whose name was originally Simon.” (BDAG, University of Chicago Press, 2000)

Bauer (1877-1960) was one of the producers of the famous Greek-English Lexicon known as BDAG, which is considered “among the most highly respected dictionaries of biblical Greek”.

D.A. Carson (Protestant), The Gospel According To John, 1991, p. 678: “Matthew 16:13-20 certainly establishes a unique role for Peter in the founding of the church – i.e. it establishes what has been called ‘his salvation-historical primacy.'”

John MacArthur (Protestant), Twelve Ordinary Men: “We know Simon Peter was the leader of the apostles—and not only from the fact that his name heads every list of the Twelve. We also have the explicit statement of Matthew 10:2: ‘Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter.’ The word translated ‘first’ in that verse is the Greek term protos. It doesn’t refer to the first in a list; it speaks of the chief, the leader of the group. Peter’s leadership is further evident in the way he normally acts as spokesman for the whole group. He is always in the foreground, taking the lead.”

Albert Barnes
Nineteenth-Century Presbyterian“The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion” [Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

John Broadus
“As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession” [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].

Craig L. Blomberg
“The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification” [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].

J. Knox Chamblin
“By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself” [“Matthew” in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

R. T. France
“The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied” (Gospel According to Matthew, 254).

Herman Ridderbos
“It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter” [Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].

Donald Hagner
“The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy” (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

So, now I have to ask: From what teacher did you learn what you are teaching?

Curious Mary

 

[Behold]

Well the truth is that Scripture and Christian history disagrees with you:
The evidence from Holy Scripture suggest your theory is wrong.

Thats a lot of spamming you just gave us.

Peter is not the pope.
The Pope is not God given.
The communion, is a cookie and a drink, that is not to be worshiped.

 

[Illuminator]

Well the truth is that Scripture and Christian history disagrees with you:
The evidence from Holy Scripture suggest your theory is wrong.

1. Matthew 16:18: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."


2. Matthew 16:19: "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven."

The "power" of the keys has to do with ecclesiastical discipline and administrative authority with regard to the requirements of the faith, as in Isaiah 22:22 (see Is 9:6; Jb 12:14; Rv 3:7). From this power flows the use of censures, excommunication, absolution, baptismal discipline, the imposition of penances and legislative powers. In the Old Testament, a steward, or prime minister, is a man who is "over a: house" (Gn 41:40; 43:19; 44:4; 1 Kgs 4:6; 16:9; 18:3; 2 Kgs 10:5; 15:5; 18:18; Is 22:15, 20-21).

3. Matthew 16:19: "Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

"Binding" and "loosing" were technical rabbinical terms, which meant to "forbid" and 'permit" with reference to the interpretation of the law and, secondarily, to "condemn," "place under the ban" or "acquit." Thus St. Peter and the popes are given the authority to determine the rules for doctrine and life by virtue of revelation and the Spirit's leading (see Jn 16:13), as well as to demand obedience from the Church. "Binding and loosing" represent the legislative and judicial powers of the papacy and the bishops (Mt 18:17-18; Jn 20:23). St. Peter, however, is the only apostle who receives these powers by name and in the singular, making him pre-eminent.

4. Peter's name occurs first in all lists of apostles (see Mt 10:2; Mk 3:16; Lk 6:14; Acts 1:13). Matthew even calls him "the first" (10:2). (Judas Iscariot is invariably mentioned last.)

5. Peter is almost without exception named first whenever he appears with anyone else. In one example to the contrary, Galatians 2:9, where he is listed after James and before John, he is clearly pre-eminent in the entire context (see, for example, 1:18-19; 2:7-8).

6. Peter alone among the apostles receives a new name, "Rock," solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42; Mt 16:18).

7. Likewise, Peter is regarded by Jesus as the chief shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28; 1 Pt 5:2).

8. Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his "faith fail not" (Lk 22:32).

9. Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to "strengthen your brethren" (Lk 22:32).

10. Peter first confesses Christ's divinity (Mt 16:16).

11. Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).

12. Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.

13. Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).

14. Jesus Christ uniquely associates himself and Peter in the miracle of the tribute money (Mt 17:24-27).

15. Christ teaches from Peter's boat, and the miraculous catch of fish follows (Lk 5:1-11): perhaps a metaphor for the pope as a "fisher of men" (Mt 4:19).

16. Peter was the first apostle to set out for, and enter, the empty tomb (Lk 24:12; Jn 20:6).

17. Peter is specified by an angel as the leader and representative of the apostles (Mk 16:7).

18. Peter leads the apostles in fishing (Jn 21:2-3,11). The "bark" (boat) of Peter has been regarded by Catholics as a figure of the Church, with Peter at the helm.

19. Peter alone casts himself into the sea to come to Jesus (Jn 21:7).

20. Peter's words are the first recorded and most important in the Upper Room before Pentecost (Acts 1:15-22).

21. Peter takes the lead in calling for a replacement for Judas (Acts 1:22).

22. Peter is the first person to speak (and only one recorded) after Pentecost, so he was the first Christian to "preach the Gospel" in the Church era (Acts 2:14-36).

23. Peter works the first miracle of the Church Age, healing a lame man (Acts 3:6-12).

24. Peter utters the first anathema (Ananias and Sapphira) emphatically affirmed by God (Acts 5:2-11).

25. Peter's shadow works miracles (Acts 5:15).

26. Peter is the first person after Christ to raise the dead (Acts 9:40).

27. Cornelius is told by an angel to seek out Peter for instruction in Christianity (Acts 10:1-6).

28. Peter is the first to receive the Gentiles, after a revelation from God (Acts 10:9-48).

29. Peter instructs the other apostles on the catholicity (universality) of the Church (Acts 11:5-17)

30. Peter is the object of the first divine interposition on behalf of an individual in the Church Age (an angel delivers him from prison-Acts 12:1-17).

31. The whole Church (strongly implied) prays for Peter "without ceasing" when he is imprisoned (Acts 12:5).

32. Peter presides over and opens the first council of Christianity, and lays down principles afterward accepted by it (Acts 15:7-11).

33. Paul distinguishes the Lord's postresurrection appearances to Peter from those to other apostles (1 Cor 15:4-5).

34. Peter is often spoken of as distinct among apostles (Mk 1:36; Lk 9:28, 32; Acts 2:37; 5:29; 1 Cor 9:5).

35. Peter is often spokesman for the other apostles, especially at climactic moments (Mk 8:29; Mt 18:21; Lk 9:5; 12:41; Jn 6:67).

36. Peter's name is always the first listed of the "inner circle" of the disciples (Peter, James and John-Mt 17:1; 26:37, 40; Mk 5:37; 14:37).

37. Peter is often the central figure relating to Jesus in dramatic Gospel scenes such as walking on the water (Mt 14:28-32; Lk 5:1, Mk 10:28; Mt 17:24).

38. Peter is the first to recognize and refute heresy, in Simon Magus (Acts 8:14-24).

39. Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together: 191 times (162 as Peter or Simon Peter, 23 as Simon and 6 as Cephas). John is next in frequency with only 48 appearances, and Peter is present 50 percent of the time we find John in the Bible. Archbishop Fulton Sheen reckoned that all the other disciples combined were mentioned 130 times. If this is correct, Peter is named a remarkable 60 percent of the time any disciple is referred to.

40. Peter's proclamation at Pentecost (Acts 2:14-41) contains a fully authoritative interpretation of Scripture, a doctrinal decision and a disciplinary decree concerning members of the "House of Israel"-an example of "binding and loosing."

41. Peter was the first "charismatic," having judged authoritatively the first instance of the gift of tongues as genuine (Acts 2:14-21).

42. Peter is the first to preach Christian repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38).

43. Peter (presumably) takes the lead in the first recorded mass baptism (Acts 2:41).

44. Peter commanded the first Gentile Christians to be baptized (Acts 10:44-48).

45. Peter was the first traveling missionary, and first exercised what would now be called "visitation of the churches" (Acts 9:32- 38, 43). Paul preached at Damascus immediately after his conversion (Acts 9:20), but had not traveled there for that purpose (God changed his plans). His missionary journeys begin in Acts 13:2.

46. Paul went to Jerusalem specifically to see Peter for 15 days at the beginning of his ministry (Gal 1:18), and was commissioned by Peter, James and John (Gal 2:9) to preach to the Gentiles.

47. Peter acts, by strong implication, as the chief bishop/shepherd of the Church (1 Pt 5:1), since he exhorts all the other bishops, or "elders."

48. Peter interprets prophecy (2 Pt 1:16-21).

49. Peter corrects those who misuse Paul's writings (2 Pt 3:15- 16).

50. Peter wrote his first epistle from Rome, according to most scholars, as its bishop, and as the universal bishop (pope) of the early Church. "Babylon" (1 Pt 5:13) is regarded as code for Rome.

So Scripture proves you wrong. In my next segment we will see how Christian history proves you wrong.

Obviously, Peter (the English word for ROCK) as spokesman for all the Apostles and leader of the whole Church, does not depend on one verse in Matthew 16.

So, now I have to ask: From what teacher did you learn what you are teaching?

Curious Mary

They learn from rebellious teachers who ignore their own scholars.

 

[Marymog]

Thats a lot of spamming you just gave us.

Peter is not the pope.
The Pope is not God given.
The communion, is a cookie and a drink, that is not to be worshiped.

Lol.....That's it? That's your best response....."spamming"??? You don't even want to name the person who taught you your theory?

Why do you disagree with Paul? Do you think he was a false teacher like some do?

Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

I agree with Paul. It would behoove you to also!

Bible study Mary

 

[Joseph77]

AS SCRIPTURE SAYS: Peter is not the pope. Thankfully! He never was!
AS SCRIPTURE SAYS: The Pope is not God given. (except a a false leader)
AS SCRIPTURE SAYS and/or GOD REVEALS : The communion(apostate), is a cookie and a drink, that is not to be worshiped.

"Lol.....That's it? That's your best response....."spamming"??? You don't even want to name the person who taught you your theory?"

Since it is the false gospel / the false church that propagates myths, theories and abominations.
and we have Scripture instead, so we reject the false church and its false teachings and its false abominable practices (as all men of God have rejected that false church) ...
no theory is needed.
Trust in God and His Word is enough, and God is to be Trusted instead of trusting the antichrists.

 

[RogerDC]

If He meant it symbolically then how did the 1st century Christians get it wrong and the 16th century Christians get it right?

The first 1500 years of Christianity were a complete waste of time - all the Christians of that era were so brainless that they got just about everything wrong - the best those losers could offer were utter morons like Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.
Jesus should have waited until the sixteen century to come to earth, when folks were so much smarter, like the Protestants. It took true Christians 1500 years to protest against the Church because prior to that, Christians were all too dumb and stupid to protest.

 

[Marymog]

The first 1500 years of Christianity were a complete waste of time - all the Christians of that era were so brainless that they got just about everything wrong - the best those losers could offer were utter morons like Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.
Jesus should have waited until the sixteen century to come to earth, when folks were so much smarter, like the Protestants. It took true Christians 1500 years to protest against the Church because prior to that, Christians were all too dumb and stupid to protest.

LOL......Of course the Christians before the Reformation were dumb and stupid. They didn’t have a bible to take home with with or to carry to church every Sunday to check the gospels themselves against what the priest was telling them.

And then one day......MIRACLE.....the printing press. Now EVERYONE could read the Bible and figure it out for themselves. They didn’t need the pesky Church telling them what Scripture said OR meant. They were all of a sudden smarter than The Church.

Over time they got smarter and smarter. Men who initially agreed with Luther REFORMED his teaching And broke away. And then men that disagreed with those men REFORMED that teaching and broke away and so on and so on and so on until today, 500 years later, we have Churches teaching that abortion and gay marriage are approved by God. The further you get away from the teachings of The Church the more right you are.....I guess?

Fascinating....simply fascinating!!

 

[Marymog]

AS SCRIPTURE SAYS: Peter is not the pope. Thankfully! He never was!
AS SCRIPTURE SAYS: The Pope is not God given. (except a a false leader)
AS SCRIPTURE SAYS and/or GOD REVEALS : The communion(apostate), is a cookie and a drink, that is not to be worshiped.

"Lol.....That's it? That's your best response....."spamming"??? You don't even want to name the person who taught you your theory?"

Since it is the false gospel / the false church that propagates myths, theories and abominations.
and we have Scripture instead, so we reject the false church and its false teachings and its false abominable practices (as all men of God have rejected that false church) ...
no theory is needed.
Trust in God and His Word is enough, and God is to be Trusted instead of trusting the antichrists.

Hi Joseph,

Is the Catholic Church the only church (denomination) that has a false leader? Are there any other denominations that teach a “false gospel” that “propagates myths, theories and abominations”?

If there are other denominations that meet your criteria would you please list them for me? Thank You!

Mary