Passover vs Eucharist

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RogerDC

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Aramaic:
ܐܴܦ݂ ܐܷܢܳܐ ܐܴܡܰܪ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܠܴܟ݂ ܂ ܕܱ݁ܐܢ̄ܬ݁ ܗ̄ܽܘ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܂ ܘܥܰܠ ܗܳܕ݂ܶܐ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܐܷܒ݂ܢܶܝܗ ܠܥܺܕ̱݁ܬ݁ܝ܂ ܘܬ݂ܱܪ̈ܥܶܐ ܕܱ݁ܫܝܽܘܠ ܠܴܐ ܢܶܚܣܢܽܘܢܳܗ

English:
“Again I say to you that you are the Rock (Kepha), and upon this Rock (Kepha) I will build my Church, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it.”
This is also obvious if you read a French Bible. The word for "Peter/rock" in French is "pierre", so a French Bible, in effect reads,
"You are Pierre, and on this pierre I will build my Church".

So exactly the same word is used for "Peter" and "rock" in that verse in a French Bible.
 
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RogerDC

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Yes indeed.
The true Bread came down from Heaven, and is now back in the same Glory as before.
Hes not in a bag of cookie or in a cup.
= Whoever eats this Living Bread.... yes indeed.....By Faith..... shall be Born again.
Jesus said, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day (John 6:54). Then later he said the bread and wine were his body and blood. How do you eat and drink "faith"?
 

RogerDC

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Peter is not the Gentile apostle
So what?
Even Paul had to correct his for his carnal behavior many years after Jesus was ascended back into Glory.
That doesn't prove he was not the leader of the Church (a Pope is Infallible, not Impeccable). You seem to forget that Jesus gave Peter - and only Peter - the "keys of the kingdom of Heaven" - proof that Jesus chose Peter to the leader of the Church.
\
And why did Jesus change Simon's name to "rock" the very first time they met? You can't tell me, even though the answer should be obvious once you read Matt 16.
 
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marksman

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Syriac Christianity (Syriac: ܡܫܝܚܝܘܬܐ ܣܘܪܝܝܬܐ‎ / Mšiḥāyuṯā Suryāyṯā; Arabic: مسيحية سريانية‎, masīḥīat surīānīa) is the form of Eastern Christianity whose formative theological writings and traditional liturgy are expressed in the Syriac language, which, along with Latin and Greek, was one of "the three most important Christian languages in the early centuries" of the Common Era. Syriac Christianity - Wikipedia

Syriac (/ˈsɪriæk/; ܠܫܢܐ ܣܘܪܝܝܐ[a] Leššānā Suryāyā), also known as Syrian/Syriac Aramaic, Syro-Aramaic or Classical Syriac,[9][10][11] is a dialect of Middle Aramaic of the Northwest Semitic languages of the Afroasiatic family that is written in the Syriac alphabet, a derivation of the Aramaic alphabet. Having first appeared in the early first century AD in Edessa,[12] classical Syriac became a major literary language throughout the Middle East from the 4th to the 8th centuries,[13] preserved in a large body of Syriac literature. Indeed, Syriac literature comprises roughly 90% of the extant Aramaic literature.[14] Syriac was once spoken across much of the Near East as well as Anatolia and Eastern Arabia.[3][4][15] Syriac originated in Mesopotamia and eventually spread west of Iraq in which it became the lingua franca of the region during the Mesopotamian Neo-Assyrian period.[16][17] http://www.malankara.com/church/sites/default/files/file/The Eucharistic Liturgy of the Syriac Orthodox Church(1).pdf

Aramaic:
ܐܴܦ݂ ܐܷܢܳܐ ܐܴܡܰܪ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܠܴܟ݂ ܂ ܕܱ݁ܐܢ̄ܬ݁ ܗ̄ܽܘ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܂ ܘܥܰܠ ܗܳܕ݂ܶܐ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܐܷܒ݂ܢܶܝܗ ܠܥܺܕ̱݁ܬ݁ܝ܂ ܘܬ݂ܱܪ̈ܥܶܐ ܕܱ݁ܫܝܽܘܠ ܠܴܐ ܢܶܚܣܢܽܘܢܳܗ

English:
“Again I say to you that you are the Rock (Kepha), and upon this Rock (Kepha) I will build my Church, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it.”

In both places we see the same word, ܟܺܐܦܳܐ ...which is just what we were expecting based on the arguments we’ve seen made about what Jesus would have actually said in Aramaic. I think this fact corroborates the argument, already made by others, that the disparity in gender between Peter’s name and the “this rock” upon which Jesus promised to build His Church is based on the demands of Greek noun inflection. It may also explain the frequency of references to Peter as Cephas in Paul’s letters. The Greek transliteration of the Aramaic/Syriac word ܟܺܐܦܳܐ is κῆφα. Our word “Cephas” is the Latin transliteration of the Greek word.
The Two “Rocks” of Matthew 16:18 in the Syriac Peshitta

Matt. 16:17 – to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon “Bar-Jona.” The use of “Bar-Jona” proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, “Bar” means son, and “Jonah” means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 – also, in quoting “on this rock,” the Scriptures use the Greek construction “tautee tee” which means on “this” rock; on “this same” rock; or on “this very” rock. “Tautee tee” is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”


The Jehovah's Witnesses teach the same thing as you.
Matt. 6:11; Luke 11:3 – in the Our Father, we ask God to give us this day our daily bread, that is the bread of life, Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:46 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

There are other hungers- for love, for immortality for life, for affection, for being cared, for forgiveness, for mercy. This hunger can be satiated only by the bread that comes from above. Jesus himself is the living bread that gives life to the world (cf. Jn 6:51). His body offered for our sake on the cross, his blood shed for the pardon of the sins of humanity is made available to us in the bread and wine to the Eucharist transformed in the consecration.

But the Eucharist does not end with the partaking of the bread and blood of the Lord. It leads us to solidarity with others. The communion with the Lord is necessarily a communion with our fellow brothers and sisters. And therefore the one who is fed and nourished by the very body and blood of Christ cannot remain unaffected when he sees his brothers suffering want and hunger. Pope Francis (Homily for the Feast of Corpus Christi, 5-30-13)
Therefore the Eucharistic Celebration is much more than simple banquet: it is exactly the memorial of Jesus’ Paschal Sacrifice, the mystery at the centre of salvation. “Memorial” does not simply mean a remembrance, a mere memory; it means that every time we celebrate this Sacrament we participate in the mystery of the passion, death and resurrection of Christ. The Eucharist is the summit of God’s saving action: the Lord Jesus, by becoming bread broken for us, pours upon us all of his mercy and his love, so as to renew our hearts, our lives and our way of relating with him and with the brethren. . . . the bread that is the Body of Jesus Christ who saves us, forgives us, unites us to the Father.

The Gospel writers refer to the consecrated / transubstantiated element as “bread” too:

Matthew 26:26
Mark 14:22
Luke 22:19

Here is St. Paul doing the same thing:
1 Corinthians 10:16-17

.Thus, Pope Francis is using the language of appearances used by Jesus, Paul, Matthew, Mark, and Luke.
No, Pope Francis Did Not Deny Transubstantiation

Marksman, you don't HAVE TO be ripped off.

Ha. sorry to disappoint you but I am not being ripped off as I enjoy feasting (breaking bread) with my fellow saints. Whenever I have spent time with them around a meal I always feel enlivened. I know you cannot understand this but them's the facts.
 

marksman

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Jesus said, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day (John 6:54). Then later he said the bread and wine were his body and blood. How do you eat and drink "faith"?
I haven't eaten Jesus flesh and I haven't drunk his blood but I know without a shadow of a doubt I have eternal life.
 

marksman

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Which one-and-only apostle did Jesus rename “Rock” the very first time they met (John 1:42)?

Which one-and-only apostle did Jesus give the “keys of the kingdom of God” to (Matt 16)?

Which one-and-only apostle did Jesus say this to? … “Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat” (Luke 22:31).

Which one-and-only apostle did Jesus command three times to feed his sheep (John 21)?

So what is your point?
 

marksman

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That’s a poor argument. According to your logic, since Christianity claims to be the one and only true religion, that means Christianity fits the definition of a cult. Jesus claimed to the only Way, Truth and Life, so Jesus and his followers fit the definition of a cult.

Speaking of cults, what is the name of YOUR cult? … which makes perfect sense, because no Protestant church is “THE one” - only the Catholic Church is “THE one”. The Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth” (1Tim 3:15), which means the Church (whatever Church that is) teaches one “truth” - ie, one set of doctrines which all her members accept as infallible truth. The so-called “born again” and Christians who are outside the Catholic Church teach all sorts of doctrines that are often in conflict with each other, so what is the “truth” (ie, the Church) is all that confusion? Do you have the “truth”?You claim to be “well acquainted” with Catholic theology, but you imply Catholics “worship” Mary - in which case, you’re wrong (again) - Catholics DON’T worship Mary. You wouldn’t know.

Neither the catholic or protestant church is the one. The church that is the one that Jesus referred to when he said I will build MY church. If it is not HIS church it is a waste of time whatever it calls itself.
 

marksman

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Hilarious.Stop relying on your own (obviously fallible) power to learn about Christ and salvation - add the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” to your library. Manifest delusion. God does not “call” false teachers to misled gullible souls with poisonous doctrines based on disobedience, lawlessness and sin.

But he does call true teachers to the body of Christ. They are not committed to a particular doctrine. They are committed to the Word of God.
 

RogerDC

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I haven't eaten Jesus flesh and I haven't drunk his blood but I know without a shadow of a doubt I have eternal life.
So what? Come Judgement Day, Christ will judge you like every one else and won't two hoots about your belief that you've already been saved.
 

marksman

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And you are deluded - many of your doctrines are totally incompatible with the doctrines of God’s one, true Church, so it was definitely not the Holy Spirit who taught you - the Holy Spirit does not teach error. What you need to do is swallow your pride, throw out all the false, man-made doctrines you’ve been taught, then join the Catholic Church and allow yourself to be taught God’s infallible doctrines. Oh, the irony!

The one true church is HIS Church. Not the catholic church or the protestant church. His church is made up of those called out ones who are chosen by him, commonly known as the ecclesia. I have heard or read three times in the last 24 hours that if it is not HIS church it is a waste of time.
 

marksman

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And you are deluded - many of your doctrines are totally incompatible with the doctrines of God’s one, true Church, so it was definitely not the Holy Spirit who taught you - the Holy Spirit does not teach error. What you need to do is swallow your pride, throw out all the false, man-made doctrines you’ve been taught, then join the Catholic Church and allow yourself to be taught God’s infallible doctrines. Oh, the irony!

That would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
 

marksman

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The errors and sins of certain Catholics - even a Pope - doesn’t prove that the Catholic Church is not the one, true Church that Jesus founded, or disprove any Catholic doctrine.

Likewise, any church that is not a catholic church.
 

RogerDC

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Neither the catholic or protestant church is the one. The church that is the one that Jesus referred to when he said I will build MY church. If it is not HIS church it is a waste of time whatever it calls itself.
Paul was compelled by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem to have the content of his preaching approved by Church leaders (Gal 2:1-2). Paul also consulted the Church leaders in Jerusalem to settle a doctrinal dispute between he and Barnabus ((Acts 15:2-3).

Which Church have you taken your doctrines to for approval? Since Paul did, you should too.

Which Church do you go to for clarification over doctrinal disputes? That's what Paul did, so which Church will you go to?
 
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marksman

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Paul was compelled by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem to have the content of his preaching approved by Church leaders (Gal 2:1-2). Paul also consulted the Church leaders in Jerusalem to settle a doctrinal dispute between he and Barnabus ((Acts 15:2-3).

Which Church have you taken your doctrines to for approval? Since Paul did, you should too.

Which Church do you go to for clarification over doctrinal disputes? That's what Paul did, so which Church will you go to?

I will go to HIS church as the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Which means that if it is NOT his church they will prevail against it.
 

RogerDC

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I will go to HIS church as the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Which means that if it is NOT his church they will prevail against it.
You didn't answer my questions, so let's try again:
Paul was compelled by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem to have the content of his preaching approved by Church leaders (Gal 2:1-2). Paul also consulted the Church leaders in Jerusalem to settle a doctrinal dispute between he and Barnabus ((Acts 15:2-3).
Which Church have you taken your doctrines to for approval? Since Paul did, you should too.
Which Church do you go to for clarification over doctrinal disputes? That's what Paul did, so which Church will you go to?
 
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marksman

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You didn't answer my questions, so let's try again:
Paul was compelled by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem to have the content of his preaching approved by Church leaders (Gal 2:1-2). Paul also consulted the Church leaders in Jerusalem to settle a doctrinal dispute between he and Barnabus ((Acts 15:2-3).

Which Church have you taken your doctrines to for approval? Since Paul did, you should too.


Which Church do you go to for clarification over doctrinal disputes? That's what Paul did, so which Church will you go to?
As I said HIS Church because the gates of hell will not prevail against it. If it is not HIS church then the gates of hell will prevail against it so I will be flogging a dead horse.
 

Illuminator

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Ha. sorry to disappoint you but I am not being ripped off as I enjoy feasting (breaking bread) with my fellow saints. Whenever I have spent time with them around a meal I always feel enlivened. I know you cannot understand this but them's the facts.
I'm happy for you, and I do understand. But some people on this board attack our heart felt beliefs with blasphemous insults out of ignorance and prejudice. We have a right to defend and explain, but some people want to deny us the same right they claim for themselves.

There are different senses in which the term "church" is used. You and RogerDC use the same word but in different senses, different meanings. It won't happen anytime soon, but until we can agree on a mutual, workable definition of "church", these discussions just go in circles.

I explained how the Eucharist in the Upper Room is one and the same sacrifice as Calvary in detail on page 26, and I explained the primacy of Peter in part on page 27, and both stand unrefuted, yet the denials and lunacy continues.
 
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Joseph77

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As long as false church teachings are permitted, there's "circles" so to speak - never ending.
 

RogerDC

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As I said HIS Church because the gates of hell will not prevail against it. If it is not HIS church then the gates of hell will prevail against it so I will be flogging a dead horse.
More evasion and another vacuous non-answer. Which Church is "His Church"? Tell me where I can find it.

Paul went to the Church leaders to have his preaching (doctrines) approved (Gal 2:1-2). If Paul were alive today, which Church would he go to for that approval?