Passover vs Eucharist

[FollowHim]

thank you we are in full
Agreement. As this is what I said earlier



1. no, I agree with the first assessment, they did not think the manna was the true bread, Jesus send it as a compare and contrast

John 6:58 (NKJV): This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead.

they did not even mention manna, so it was not them asking

2. Jesus told them they ate that bread often and died, whoever eats this bread will NEVER DIE

John 6: 58b. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

which brings me to your second point, where did Jesus at the last supper tell them whoever ate of that bread will never die? If it is the same bread, it should have the same promise should it not?

Eating the bread means dwelling in Him, He becomes a part of us, and we become a part of Him.
And to those that dwell in this communion they will live forever.

I would assess all believers agree with this, if one is in Christ, one is saved, whether this is salvation at the resurrection or passing from death to life when we converted and believed Jesus.

Some look at maturity as their benchmark, while others at staying faithful, and some that whatever happens or will happen they are saved, eternal, secure in Him, like a mark that is never removed.

But what of those who desire to not be marked, to reject all it stands for, to turn their back and walk away?
It seems then the interpretation of eating the bread varies. And because the interpretation varies, pointing out the word eternal will not change minds or hearts, because like everyone who understands language, this is not a difficult idea to grasp.

But I suspect Jesus's words about the pharisees weighs heavily for some, "you all full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
Interestingly Paul who was a dedicated pharisee never talked of himself like this. What shocked Paul was his law keeping meant nothing when faced with Jesus actually being the Messiah. It was the one issue he had avoided and denied, yet God challenged him on this directly.
And Paul realised unless he knew God, really, at a heart level, everything else was worthless, counted as nothing. And once you know it is all about knowing Jesus, empathy, having no emotional relativism to distract and distort you, things become very clear. We enter the sabbath rest in Him, we desire to do His will His way with His power. God bless you

 

[Marymog]

2. Jesus told them they ate that bread often and died, whoever eats this bread will NEVER DIE

John 6: 58b. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

which brings me to your second point, where did Jesus at the last supper tell them whoever ate of that bread will never die? If it is the same bread, it should have the same promise should it not?

Hi,

I never suggested or made the “point” that “at the last supper” Jesus told “them whoever at of that bread will never die.”

So let me see if I can be more clear: Jesus did not tell them at The Last Supper “whoever ate of that bread will never die”. The Last Supper happened AFTER the Bread of Life discourse in John 6 so when he held up the bread at The Last Supper and said to them “This IS my body....” they then understood the Bread of Life discourse from John 6 and HOW to eat/drink Him. He told them what they must do and then he showed them how to do it. He was a VERY GOOD teacher. Wouldn’t you agree?

Hope that clarifies things....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Hey mary I look forward to his too

you never answered, where did Jesus tell,them they would never die at the last supper? And why do you continue to eat that bread if as Jesus said, if you eat it you will not die?

Lol.....I guess I didn’t reply fast enough??

Read post #102 for your answer....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Hey mary I look forward to his too

you never answered, where did Jesus tell,them they would never die at the last supper? And why do you continue to eat that bread if as Jesus said, if you eat it you will not die?

You responded to my post but never answered my question: I believe that we must do what Jesus told us to do. Do you?

 

[Marymog]

.......If one interprets this as just taking Eucharist, lots of times, one is missing Jesus completely, because eating His flesh and drinking His blood physically counts for nothing. God bless you

Ummmm.....I don’t think participating in the Eucharist counts for nothing. I am doing what He told me to do sooooo it must count for something. Right?

Do you think it counts for nothing to do what He told you to do?

Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi,

They did mention manna....in VS 31

They DID think that the manna was true bread from heaven and that it was Mose who gave them that bread. That is why Jesus told them that manna was not the true bread and that He was the true bread: VS 32 it was not Moses who gave you the bread (manna) from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.

Mary

Yes

They asked what sign Jesus was going to do as Moses had the sign of bringing manna from heaven

Jesus corrected them and said it was not Moses who have them manna it was his father

They asked for Jesus to given them bread always.

Jesus then said he was the bread from heaven and ended as I said. Whoever ate that bread will die whoever eats the bread he can to give will live forever.
Can you explain what he meant by that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You responded to my post but never answered my question: I believe that we must do what Jesus told us to do. Do you?

you never answered mine

where did Jesus day we would live forever at the last supper

the answer to your question is yes. And I do partake of the last supper often as Jesus commanded.

 

[FollowHim]

Ummmm.....I don’t think participating in the Eucharist counts for nothing. I am doing what He told me to do sooooo it must count for something. Right?

Do you think it counts for nothing to do what He told you to do?

Mary

Communion or the breaking of bread is a deeply personal communion and reminder of Jesus and His gift to us.
It has 100% spiritual significance. But it is not a flesh based significance, which is what Jesus is talking about.
Like when someone dies and you drink to them, you are drinking in the remembrance of their life. In Jesus we are bonding with His love, heart and forgiveness which is unbelievably profound. So important is this memory and communion, that Paul says in the church in Corinth believers had died as judgement against their attitude.

But like all things we can make one aspect disproportionately important over others.

I have been finally introduced to the life of monks. And sadly it is a lot more disappointing than I thought possible. Rather than a place of contemplation and deeper insight into Jesus, it appears to be about a secluded life of restraint not victory, or aesthetic ideals and possibly suffering, but not a lot more. I live an isolated life myself, yet this is because of my work, and spend a lot of time discussing theology and our walk in Christ. This has been the most enlightening time in my life, which is in contrast to the lack of life through repetition and dulling the mind and enquiry in Christ.

I would recommend everyone to obey and follow Jesus, but also ask deeper questions as to what Jesus meant.
A simple for instance was rebuking a fig tree for having no figs. Now in truth this is gardening in a sense, but is actually a parable about not being fruitful. We need to be fruitful in our lives and hearts, not thorns and thistles inside, but figs and grapes. Another way of saying this is joy and love, over defence and aggression when people get too close. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi,

I never suggested or made the “point” that “at the last supper” Jesus told “them whoever at of that bread will never die.”

So let me see if I can be more clear: Jesus did not tell them at The Last Supper “whoever ate of that bread will never die”. The Last Supper happened AFTER the Bread of Life discourse in John 6 so when he held up the bread at The Last Supper and said to them “This IS my body....” they then understood the Bread of Life discourse from John 6 and HOW to eat/drink Him. He told them what they must do and then he showed them how to do it. He was a VERY GOOD teacher. Wouldn’t you agree?

Hope that clarifies things....Mary

Then if you eat the last supper bread. And you can still die. Does that not PROVE it is Not the same bread?

that is the point I Am trying to Make. I am being told it is the same bread if this is true. Then the same promise should be given for both

 

[Philip James]

ah then you to are secure in Christ and have no fear of suffering eternal death for any reason

amen!

If, by His grace, i continue to abide in Him. Yes! Amen!

Ok so it’s conditional on you?

I'm not sure I understand the premise of your questions.

Jesus life is eternal because He is eternal. He freely shares this life with all who come to Him.

But receiving the life of Christ does not mean that I now have life in and of myself, apart from Him...That I can then do as I please..

I cannot say hey thanks for the life Jesus, see ya around, and never interact with Him again..

If, after receiving the life of Christ, i turn from Him and willfully and knowingly choose death, will He continue to share His life with me if I remain unrepentant?

See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

is this why you keep eating this food?

Why do you keep asking this question which has already been answered?

Peace!

 

[Marymog]

Yes

They asked what sign Jesus was going to do as Moses had the sign of bringing manna from heaven

Jesus corrected them and said it was not Moses who have them manna it was his father

They asked for Jesus to given them bread always.

Jesus then said he was the bread from heaven and ended as I said. Whoever ate that bread will die whoever eats the bread he can to give will live forever.
Can you explain what he meant by that?

Hi EG,

I agree with you. That is...in general....how the conversation went between Jesus and the Jews. If my past post appear to disagree with you on that matter I hope i am making it clear that I don’t disagree with you.

Now to answer your question: I believe Jesus meant what he said (MULTIPLE TIMES) in John 6. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them......the one who feeds on me will live because of me...... Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

“This bread” is Him!! The ”bread he can give” is Him!! He SAID we must eat him. He then SHOWED us how to accomplish what he TOLD us to do. He showed us at the Last Supper when he said while holding up bread “This IS my body...”. He told us what we need to do and then he showed us what we need to do. I don’t see what is so complicated about this.

It appears to me you are trying to separate the John 6 bread of life discourse from the last supper. They are clearly connected and since the beginning of Christianity the Christian community has practiced that. Even Paul made it clear they were connected in just a few simple passages: The cup of blessing that we bless (Last Supper), is it not a participation in the blood of Christ (Bread of Life discourse)? The bread that we break (Last Supper), is it not a participation in the body of Christ Bread of Life discourse)?

With those two rhetorical questions Paul connected the Bread of Life discourse with The Last Supper.

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

you never answered mine

where did Jesus day we would live forever at the last supper

the answer to your question is yes. And I do partake of the last supper often as Jesus commanded.

I believe I did answer your question. In Post #102 I said: I never suggested or made the “point” that “at the last supper” Jesus told “them whoever ate of that bread will never die.”

Sooooo in summary you are asking me to defend something I never said OR thought soooo I am a bit confused.

Thank you for answering my question.

When you partake of communion (The Last Supper) as Jesus commanded do you believe it is His body/blood?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Communion or the breaking of bread is a deeply personal communion and reminder of Jesus and His gift to us.

It has 100% spiritual significance. But it is not a flesh based significance, which is what Jesus is talking about.

Like when someone dies and you drink to them, you are drinking in the remembrance of their life. In Jesus we are bonding with His love, heart and forgiveness which is unbelievably profound. So important is this memory and communion, that Paul says in the church in Corinth believers had died as judgement against their attitude..... God bless you

Thank you.

How is communion not a “flesh based significance” when He said “This IS my body...”? Does the body not have flesh? It seems he WAS making it a “fleshed based significance”.

How do you equate drinking a toast (using milk or beer at a bar or soda or whisky etc.) in remembrance of someone you knew personally in life to Jesus command at The Last Supper? That is a bizarre conclusion. Who taught you that?

 

[Marymog]

Then if you eat the last supper bread. And you can still die. Does that not PROVE it is Not the same bread?

that is the point I Am trying to Make. I am being told it is the same bread if this is true. Then the same promise should be given for both

I don’t understand why you are telling God that he should make the “same promise” for both breads. That confuses me. Clearly the promise was NOT for both breads...just like Scripture says.

The “last supper bread” is not normal bread. That is what the Catholic Church believes and some, NOT ALL, Protestants believe. It is what Jesus said it was “his body”. It is as Paul said; a participation in the body of Christ. Do you not believe what Jesus and Paul said? Jesus ALSO said when we eat this bread (which is Him) we will not die. Do you not believe what Jesus said?

How do you eat Him EG?

Curious Mary

 

[Philip James]

Hello FollowHim,

Communion or the breaking of bread is a deeply personal communion and reminder of Jesus and His gift to us.

Indeed. Intimately personal.. But not just personal, also communal... For we are united not just with Him but with each other when we participate in this communion..

It has 100% spiritual significance. But it is not a flesh based significance, which is what Jesus is talking about.

It is both! For if we have become one flesh with Him, then just as HE has risen, so too will our bodies rise, be transformed, glorified...

Like when someone dies and you drink to them, you are drinking in the remembrance of their life

And yet Christ is no longer dead but alive! He is with us at the memorial of His death and resurrection.. And He shares that life with us, as He promised He would do.. We are not just 'remembering' His life, but are being united with it!

Peace be with you!

 

[FollowHim]

Thank you.

How is communion not a “flesh based significance” when He said “This IS my body...”? Does the body not have flesh? It seems he WAS making it a “fleshed based significance”.

How do you equate drinking a toast (using milk or beer at a bar or soda or whisky etc.) in remembrance of someone you knew personally in life to Jesus command at The Last Supper? That is a bizarre conclusion. Who taught you that?

Drinking wine and eating bread is not a literal eating Jesus's flesh.
When Jesus says "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

Clearly the bread was not his actual body, as he was standing before them, but rather this was the celebration they needed to do to remember Jesus's sacrifice.

Now it is pretty clear these are realities. It is easy to confuse the issues of a ceremony with the actual atonement sacrifice, but why do we need more than the ceremony to have its spiritual significance applied to us. Surely in God, there is no need for a miraculous transformation, if the spiritual reality is the same.
God bless you

 

[Marymog]

Drinking wine and eating bread is not a literal eating Jesus's flesh.
When Jesus says "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

Clearly the bread was not his actual body, as he was standing before them, but rather this was the celebration they needed to do to remember Jesus's sacrifice.

Now it is pretty clear these are realities. It is easy to confuse the issues of a ceremony with the actual atonement sacrifice, but why do we need more than the ceremony to have its spiritual significance applied to us. Surely in God, there is no need for a miraculous transformation, if the spiritual reality is the same.
God bless you

Ok....so you do not believe what Jesus said when he said “This is my body...”. And, you do not believe Paul when he asked rhetorically, Is not the cup/bread we drink/eat a participation in the blood/body of Christ?

Do you believe you must eat His body? If so, how do you accomplish that? If you don’t believe you must eat His body why don’t you?

Curious Mary

 

[FollowHim]

Ok....so you do not believe what Jesus said when he said “This is my body...”. And, you do not believe Paul when he asked rhetorically, Is not the cup/bread we drink/eat a participation in the blood/body of Christ?

Do you believe you must eat His body? If so, how do you accomplish that? If you don’t believe you must eat His body why don’t you?

Curious Mary

Eating Jesus's body is participation in His suffering through our walk and witness. To empathise and walk the way of someone else is to eat their bread, the results of what they sow and reap. Jesus's blood is shed, so we shed our lives by spending time in His service.

God bless you

 

[Marymog]

Eating Jesus's body is participation in His suffering through our walk and witness. To empathise and walk the way of someone else is to eat their bread, the results of what they sow and reap. Jesus's blood is shed, so we shed our lives by spending time in His service.

God bless you

Sooooo I may be misunderstanding you. It appears to me that you are saying that when we “walk” the walk and talk the talk (witness) then we are eating Jesus body? If we act like Christians and witness to others we are eating Jesus body?

That is what I understand you to be saying....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If, by His grace, i continue to abide in Him. Yes! Amen!

that’s not eternal life that’s conditional life

I'm not sure I understand the premise of your questions.

Jesus life is eternal because He is eternal. He freely shares this life with all who come to Him.

But receiving the life of Christ does not mean that I now have life in and of myself, apart from Him...That I can then do as I please..

I cannot say hey thanks for the life Jesus, see ya around, and never interact with Him again..

If, after receiving the life of Christ, i turn from Him and willfully and knowingly choose death, will He continue to share His life with me if I remain unrepentant?

See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.



Why do you keep asking this question which has already been answered?

Peace!

Jesus said whoever eats will never die

you have yet to answer this question

or as I said, if you have we can not agree..