Passover vs Eucharist

[FollowHim]

Grounding

We tend to spiritualise everything and put too much emphasis on ceremonies and symbols.
The israelites started worshipping the bronze snake used as a rescue of Israel from the judgement of snakes, if they looked at the snake, they would be healed.

It is possible to turn Jesus and the cross into an idol, like the symbol itself has power, rather than this is the representation of Gods love for mankind and the whole of creation.

When Jesus turned water into wine, it was just for a wedding celebration.
Jesus called the teachers of the law
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matt 23:33

6 "Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Matt 16:6
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Matt 16:12

2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matt 23:2-3

So we must be careful that we do not turn that which is the life of our hearts, Jesus and cross, does not become just a ceremony which we believe has spiritual significance without repenting and getting our hearts right with Him.

63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
John 6:63

Jesus is saying when he says
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
John 6:55-56

He means the spiritual reality of knowing Jesus and everything He is and represents, His heart, His emotional direction, His love, His victory, is our food of thought, action and direction. We have to literally dwell and become like Him.

If one interprets this as just taking Eucharist, lots of times, one is missing Jesus completely, because eating His flesh and drinking His blood physically counts for nothing. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Dear EG,

It is one and the same loaf Jesus broke and one and the same cup that Jesus gave us:

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

Peace!

why will you not answer My question.

Why did Jesus say this food endures to eternal life?

where does eternal Life come in. I am just starting with the first think jesus said about working for food One Which perishes and one which endures forever

As we get deeper Into John 6 he also said so much more

can you answer this please

 

[Philip James]

why will you not answer My question.

Why did Jesus say this food endures to eternal life?

Because it does!

where does eternal Life come in.

In uniting Himself with us, He shares His eternal life with us!
We truly become one flesh with Him,

This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and His Church

Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because it does!



In uniting Himself with us, He shares His eternal life with us!
We truly become one flesh with Him,

This is a great mystery but I speak of Christ and His Church

Peace!

Ok then

if it endures forever. Unlike the food which perishes

why do you continue to take it. Does it die? Will you die if you stop taking it? (Spiritually speaking if course)

 

[Marymog]

Today it is past tense.
At the time he had yet to give his life.
But he did say it would endure forever

Did he not tell them to not search for food which perished but food which will endure forever?

I didn't word my question properly. I apologize. Instead of a question I will make a statement:

I do not see anywhere in John 6 where Jesus said that he already gave us food (past tense) that will last forever.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I didn't word my question properly. I apologize. Instead of a question I will make a statement:

I do not see anywhere in John 6 where Jesus said that he already gave us food (past tense) that will last forever.

John 6:27 (NKJV): Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

John 6:32–33 (NKJV): My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

John 6:35 (NKJV): I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.


Here is just a few verses. Are you saying Jesus has not yet given us this?

 

[Marymog]

John 6:27 (NKJV): Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

John 6:32–33 (NKJV): My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

John 6:35 (NKJV): I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.


Here is just a few verses. Are you saying Jesus has not yet given us this?

Hi EG,

Thank you. Quoting verses helps very much.

The short answer to your question is: No! Before John 6 Jesus had not yet given (past tense) the disciples food that will last forever since the food that would last forever was his flesh. He gave his flesh via the crucifixion.

The long answer is: Putting those passages in context Jesus is saying to them that he IS the true bread from heaven. The Jews were equating true bread from heaven as the manna that their forefathers ate (vs31) given to them by Moses. Jesus told them in vs 32-33: Truly, it was not Moses who gave you the bread (manna) from heaven.....the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. They then asked Jesus to "give us this bread always.” Jesus then told them how to always have this bread: whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. In summary using context: Jesus is telling them that HE is the true bread from heaven and HE gives them life. Not life by eating regular bread (consuming calories) but life by going to Him and believing in him.

Coming to him and believing in him was just the start. He then ADDS to that by saying: 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. In context he says several times that we must eat his body and drink his blood.

This confused some of his followers and they walked away. They were offended that he was telling them they must eat/drink him; that he was suggesting cannibalism. If they would have stuck around a few more months they would have found out how to eat/drink him. At the last supper He showed the remaining disciples how to do eat/drink him in the bread/wine.

In summary Jesus told us we must eat/drink Him in John 6 and then He showed us how to do it at The Last Supper.

Clear as mud....

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Ok then

if it endures forever. Unlike the food which perishes

why do you continue to take it. Does it die? Will you die if you stop taking it? (Spiritually speaking if course)

Hi EG,

I look forward to how @Philip James will answer but I would like to chime in.

Jesus told us we must eat his body and drink his blood. At The Last Supper he showed us how accomplish this. At The Last Supper he told us to do this in remembrance of Him.

I believe that we must do what Jesus told us to do. Do you?

Mary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Thank you. Quoting verses helps very much.

The short answer to your question is: No! Before John 6 Jesus had not yet given (past tense) the disciples food that will last forever since the food that would last forever was his flesh. He gave his flesh via the crucifixion.

thank you we are in full
Agreement. As this is what I said earlier

The long answer is: Putting those passages in context Jesus is saying to them that he IS the true bread from heaven. The Jews were equating true bread from heaven as the manna that their forefathers ate (vs31) given to them by Moses. Jesus told them in vs 32-33: Truly, it was not Moses who gave you the bread (manna) from heaven.....the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. They then asked Jesus to "give us this bread always.” Jesus then told them how to always have this bread: whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. In summary using context: Jesus is telling them that HE is the true bread from heaven and HE gives them life. Not life by eating regular bread (consuming calories) but life by going to Him and believing in him.

Coming to him and believing in him was just the start. He then ADDS to that by saying: 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. In context he says several times that we must eat his body and drink his blood.

This confused some of his followers and they walked away. They were offended that he was telling them they must eat/drink him; that he was suggesting cannibalism. If they would have stuck around a few more months they would have found out how to eat/drink him. At the last supper He showed the remaining disciples how to do eat/drink him in the bread/wine.

In summary Jesus told us we must eat/drink Him in John 6 and then He showed us how to do it at The Last Supper.

Clear as mud....

Mary

1. no, I agree with the first assessment, they did not think the manna was the true bread, Jesus send it as a compare and contrast

John 6:58 (NKJV): This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead.

they did not even mention manna, so it was not them asking

2. Jesus told them they ate that bread often and died, whoever eats this bread will NEVER DIE

John 6: 58b. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

which brings me to your second point, where did Jesus at the last supper tell them whoever ate of that bread will never die? If it is the same bread, it should have the same promise should it not?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

I look forward to how @Philip James will answer but I would like to chime in.

Jesus told us we must eat his body and drink his blood. At The Last Supper he showed us how accomplish this. At The Last Supper he told us to do this in remembrance of Him.

I believe that we must do what Jesus told us to do. Do you?

Mary

Hey mary I look forward to his too

you never answered, where did Jesus tell,them they would never die at the last supper? And why do you continue to eat that bread if as Jesus said, if you eat it you will not die?

 

[FollowHim]

Does the Eucharist represent emotional relativism?
Rather than face realities in our hearts, it is easier to take mass and the down side is balanced out.

It was said in holland a cathedral had a door for sailors to receive mass after going to the brothel, so their sin would be dealt with before they went back out to sea. I mean sex was a need that had to be met, and they might die, so needed forgiveness afterwards in case they were going to meet their maker. And a little donation to the church at the same time would not go amiss.

I think this summarises another form of easy believism.

 

[Philip James]

Ok then

if it endures forever. Unlike the food which perishes

why do you continue to take it.

A better question would be, why wouldnt you?

But here's a few reasons why..

Because being intimate with each other is what lovers do..
'how do I love thee let me count the ways'

Because He nourishes our souls in those intimate moments, forming us more into His likeness...

Because that is how we have been taught to abide in Him:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

Because it unites us with one another:

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

I could go on for pages...

Does it die?

He died once and now lives forever. So no..

Will you die if you stop taking it? (Spiritually speaking if course)

Does the branch thrive if severed from the vine?
Why would I stop receiving Him?

Peace!

 

[Philip James]

Rather than face realities in our hearts,

Hello FollowHim,

Unless one faces the realities in ones heart, they cannot worthily participate..

Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

Thank you. Quoting verses helps very much.

The short answer to your question is: No! Before John 6 Jesus had not yet given (past tense) the disciples food that will last forever since the food that would last forever was his flesh. He gave his flesh via the crucifixion.

thank you we are in full
Agreement. As this is what I said earlier

The long answer is: Putting those passages in context Jesus is saying to them that he IS the true bread from heaven. The Jews were equating true bread from heaven as the manna that their forefathers ate (vs31) given to them by Moses. Jesus told them in vs 32-33: Truly, it was not Moses who gave you the bread (manna) from heaven.....the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. They then asked Jesus to "give us this bread always.” Jesus then told them how to always have this bread: whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. In summary using context: Jesus is telling them that HE is the true bread from heaven and HE gives them life. Not life by eating regular bread (consuming calories) but life by going to Him and believing in him.

Coming to him and believing in him was just the start. He then ADDS to that by saying: 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. In context he says several times that we must eat his body and drink his blood.

This confused some of his followers and they walked away. They were offended that he was telling them they must eat/drink him; that he was suggesting cannibalism. If they would have stuck around a few more months they would have found out how to eat/drink him. At the last supper He showed the remaining disciples how to do eat/drink him in the bread/wine.

In summary Jesus told us we must eat/drink Him in John 6 and then He showed us how to do it at The Last Supper.

Clear as mud....

Mary

A few thoughts

1. Jesus was comparing the true bread from heaven with manna,

the compare/contrasting the two leads to this

John 6:58 (NKJV): This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever..

they ate and died/whoever eats this bread will live forever,

2. where did Jesus at the last supper say whoever ate that bread will live forever?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A better question would be, why wouldnt you?

I have

But here's a few reasons why..

Because being intimate with each other is what lovers do..
'how do I love thee let me count the ways'

Because He nourishes our souls in those intimate moments, forming us more into His likeness...

Because that is how we have been taught to abide in Him:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

Because it unites us with one another:

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

I could go on for pages...

All these things are relational things. The more relate to the last supper or 1 Cor 11. I asked about John 6. The context of John 6 is people running to find Jesus to get another handout. He just fed 5000 the day before they wanted more

that is why he started out his conversation

John 6:26–27 (NKJV): Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

He is talking about 2 different types of food

the first perishes or loses it life giving ability. Or all it’s energy is used up. Like manna. hence you have to eat repeatedly

the second you eat and it endures forever Ie it continually feed the person who eats it

so again. If this is the same flesh as 1 cor 11. Why do you keep eating it?

He died once and now lives forever. So no..

That’s great

but he said whoever EATS will
Live forever. What about this? He never said he would live forever. So I do not understand this reasoning. He said. Whoever eats will live forever

Does the branch thrive if severed from the vine?
Why would I stop receiving Him?

Peace!

He said you will live forever did he lie?

peace!

 

[Philip James]

All these things are relational things.

Well of course! It is a marital relationship between Christ and HIS Church!

so again. If this is the same flesh as 1 cor 11. Why do you keep eating it?

Already asked and answered, do you want more reasons?

He said you will live forever did he lie?

No. He is always Truthful.
Alleluia!


Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well of course! It is a marital relationship between Christ and HIS Church!

Yes, so it fits in the last supper and 1 cor 11

but it does not fit John 6, this is what I am trying to resolve

Already asked and answered, do you want more reasons?

Yes you answered my why you eat it

you have not answered as to why you do not receive what Jesus promised in John 6

or if you have, we have come to a crossing point at which we can not agree

No. He is always Truthful.
Alleluia!

Yes he is, and he said if you ate his flesh and blood, the true bread from heaven you will never die.

so do you have eternal life? Do you think you can still die?

Peace!

peace to you also

 

[Philip James]

so do you have eternal life?

Yes. I have His eternal life that He shares freely with all who come to Him.

Do you think you can still die?

Not if I continue to abide in Him, no.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. I have His eternal life that He shares freely with all who come to Him.

ah then you to are secure in Christ and have no fear of suffering eternal death for any reason

amen!

Not if I continue to abide in Him, no.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Peace!

Ok so it’s conditional on you?

is this not conditional
Life!

is this why you keep eating this food?

peace!

 

[Marymog]

thank you we are in full
Agreement. As this is what I said earlier



1. no, I agree with the first assessment, they did not think the manna was the true bread, Jesus send it as a compare and contrast

John 6:58 (NKJV): This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead.

they did not even mention manna, so it was not them asking

Hi,

They did mention manna....in VS 31

They DID think that the manna was true bread from heaven and that it was Mose who gave them that bread. That is why Jesus told them that manna was not the true bread and that He was the true bread: VS 32 it was not Moses who gave you the bread (manna) from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.

Mary