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Featured PASTORS D*BATE: After Being Born Again, Do Christians Still Sin?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Ziggy, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts?


     
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This has been a long running discussion among some.

    Galatians 5 tells us that the flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, so that you cannot do what you want.

    The conflict remains while we remain in our bodies.

    This fellow keeps going on about "satan's nature", that's not Scriptural terminology, he's not really talking from Scripture.

    Much love!
     
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  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @Ziggy
    1jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    1jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    1jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    1jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    1jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    From those few verses see a few declarations and/or questions:

    Anyone abiding in Him does not sin! Who abides in Him continuously?

    Anyone that sins is of the devil!

    What are the works of the devil?

    What is the righteousness that anyone of God is doing?

    Anyone born of God does not sin!


    I have reason to doubt that everyone who says that he is born of God really is! Or perhaps he was, but then was not, because he looked back longingly to Sodom or like a dog he turned back and swallowed again his own vomit. Or like Peter first speaking from a God given revelation and then from his father, the devil [Matthew chapter 16]. Some may want to excuse Peter for not yet having being born of God... but then if we, all of the 70% in this one nation, are born of God, what is our excuse?

    Why? I just now looked at a Christian population percentage for the USA on the Internet which on one site shows it now at about 70%. Do not most, if not all, of the people included in that 70% claim to be born of God, or born again, or born from above? [Are the three phrases meaning the same thing according to God?]

    All anyone who lives in the United States has to do is look around where he lives in a town or a city. If 70% were sinless, would we not see a better picture than we do? Jesus was sinless. How much like Jesus do we seem to be? How much like Jesus are all of that 70%? Even if all of those reborn, born from above, born of God, or born again, people were simply immature, should there not be a continuous improvement as they progress becoming more like Jesus all of the time?

    Lots of questions perhaps that would require answers before a final clear answer may be given to the question raised by the OP question... no?
     
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  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    This is a hard conversation, There are so many "interpretations" of what it means even to be born again.

    I am born again. I choose not to, nor do I have a desire to sin. Does that mean I am sinless?
    I have the capability, sometimes I am even tempted to maybe gossip or tell a little white lie.
    I know if I do my conscience is right there telling me don't do it.
    Some say conscience some say Holy Spirit.. I believe when you are born again your conscience is occupied by the Holy Spirit,
    so you don't do what you would do if there were no restraint.
    I don't see a lot of "restraint" in today's society.

    Until he is taken out of the way ... comes to mind.

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    Only one allowing it is God. It's a form of punishment, that hopefully when ones conscience becomes too heavy to bear,
    they will seek the Lord.

    But there is coming a time when God's spirit will stop striving with man's spirit... and I see it withdrawing every day.

    That's called CHAOS.

    Thank You amadeus
    HUGS
     
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  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    #1. the narrator LIED when he said that he don't sin.

    and when he kept asking what type of sin did the other Pastor commit, I knew he had no idea what sin is. listen up, Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

    and the scriptures are clear, Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

    now the million dollar question, when one is born again do one get all of the Faith at one TIME?, no, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

    this is where the Narrartor made his mistake at, "not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think", when the scriptures are clear, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." that's why I said the Narrator lied, there is no truth in what he said. for the scripture is clear, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

    well all those who say they don't sin, why do YOU need the Advocate? I'll tell you why, Hebrews 12:4 "Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin." (THAT'S WHY).
    Hebrews 12:5 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:" (question, why are you getting chastised if you have not SIN?)
    Hebrews 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."
    Hebrews 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"
    Hebrews 12:8 "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

    again, if you haven't sin, why chastisement. no parent chastise their children for no reason. NOR DO GOD.

    if any have any remaining questions please ask,

    Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
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  7. Holy999

    Holy999 Active Member

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    its a struggle.
     
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  8. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Even so! What happens when a child is born naturally? Inside completely absolutely dependent on the mother to survive, to live. When the child is actually being born, the separation is only the beginning, the beginning of independence. When the umbilical cord is cut, physically they are two separate people, but... But, the human newborn cannot survive separated without help. He would soon die from exposure if not covered. He would soon starve to death if not fed. What is the difference between an infant only minutes old and the mature adult human being? What else besides how to keep warm and a full belly has the 'mature' adult learned?

    Some people want to insist that when a person is born 'again' that every thing is done. Was Adam complete when God breathed into him? Was it not after that that Adam disobeyed God [sin?]. Are we immediately better when we are born 'again' than Adam was when God breathed Life into him? Some people insist on saying, yes... but I do not believe that. I seriously consider and believe that God is no respecter of persons as is taught both in the OT and the NT!


    Sinless, already? Perhaps not, but surely and definitely growing toward that goal..? If not, then how are we better than that first man Adam after he disobeyed? How clean and Alive were Adam and Eve before they disobeyed that first time? Consider who was saved in the Ark that Noah built! Beasts, unclean and clean, as well as a very few people!

    If we are unclean, what must be done first? First clean us up [unclean to clean beast] and then refill us with "good" things [clean beasts to Living men]! The world around us is full of dead unclean beasts. Any clean beasts to be seen? Any who have actually come from clean beast to born again men?

    What happened to this fellow?

    When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
    Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

    Cleaned out by the Holy Spirit, but then instead of consuming "good things" [none good but God!] he walked through dry, dead places where there was nothing good and Living [his old friends or hangouts or habits prior to meeting Jesus?] and of course found no place to rest:

    "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matt 11:28



    Unless of course you are resisting or quenching the Spirit of God in you and following your own spirit again:

    "Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19



    When we have completely and finally overcome everything standing between or striving to stand between us and God then the striving between the 'new man' of us and 'old man' of us will be finished and we will ever be in His presence beholding His face!

    According to Apostle Paul:

    "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Eph 4:22-24

    Or according to John the Baptist:

    "He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

    "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even
    as also I am known." I Cor 13:12
     
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  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    God Law is in our hearts, and not on the books, for where there is no LAW, listen, Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

    just as the other minister said, it's through GRACE by FAITH in Christ Jesus. Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," BINGO there is our LAW, the LAW of FAITH.

    Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" WHY IS IT BY FAITH? BECAUSE OF HIS SEED IN US, FOR WE'RE BORN AGAIN.

    Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (STOP RIGHT THERE, no flesh, let the scripture say again, NO FLESH is justified in his, God sight, so the narrator lied when he said he don't sin.) as long as we're in this flesh we are subject to sin. just don't fall into to pratice of it. for WHATEVER YOU DO THAT IS NOT OF faith, IT'S SIN, see Romans 14:23

    Romans 3:21 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;" (God righteousness not ours). that's why one cannot sin, because you're his and not of yourself, but we will see why, when we do sin.

    Romans 3:22 "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" (THERE IS THE ANSWER).

    Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
    Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
    Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" (now all our PAST sin is forgiven).

    Romans 3:26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (BINGO, can't get any plainer than that). if one is a believer in Jesus Christ, then we suggest one read 1 John 1, and 2.

    Romans 3:27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith." (hooray thank you JESUS, what LAW, I say, WHAT LAW? that's right the LAW of FAITH, NOT the written Law, but the LAW OF FAITH,,,,, that the LAW we walk by, so long sin over my head why... Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

    FORGIVE? say what? ... FORGIVE.... lets see it, 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (THERE IS THAT "FORGIVE". BINGO, oh is one just read their bible. if we confess our, our, our, sins, he, he, he, is what? ... "JUST", he is what?.. "JUST" to FORGIVE us of OUR, OUR, sins. thank God for the NEW COVENANT, you think I want to give this up for sin? you got to be kidding.

    Romans 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (bye bye written law, now 101G how can you say that... listen, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," (HOLD it STOP the press, SAY WHAT? "that the law is not made for a righteous man" one in Christ Jesus need to read that again, and again. listen, 1 Timothy 1:9a "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man". see my righteousness is in God, Jesus the Christ. and NOT in the WRITTEN LAW... BINGO.

    Romans 3:29 "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:"

    Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."

    Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

    why and How? for we have a "HELPER", who is our "ADVOCATE", GOD himself, the Lord Jesus.

    people we suggest you read 1 John with the Holy Spirit and LEARN you NEW CONTRACT.

    now one other thing, if one missed it, the law of faith is to be obeyed.


    Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    What sins must be forgiven if there are no laws?

    HUGS
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. It is not "Satan's nature" but the old "Adamic" nature, which is called "the flesh" or "the old man". The flesh is NOT eradicated even though the believer receives a new nature. Which means that the flesh and the Spirit are in conflict. However, the Holy Spirit is there to empower believers to shun sin and practice righteousness.
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    If a person is dead and therefore blind to the things of God, can he sin? Is not sin the result when a person who is able to see go against that which he sees? What did people in the OT see? Did any of them encounter Light or Life prior to the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem?
     
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  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    If God had not said to Adam, thou shalt not eat, and they ate,
    would they still have died?

    Hugs
     
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  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 116

    I love the LORD, because he hath heard my voice and my supplications.

    Because he hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon
    him as long as I live.

    The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

    Then called I upon the name of the LORD; O LORD, I beseech thee, deliver my soul.

    Gracious
    is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

    The LORD preserveth the simple: I was brought low, and he helped me.

    Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee.

    For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

    I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

    I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted:

    I said in my haste, All men
    are liars.

    What shall I render unto the LORD
    for all his benefits toward me?

    I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.

    I will pay my vows unto the LORD
    now in the presence of all his people.

    Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

    O LORD, truly I
    am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds.

    I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.

    I will pay my vows unto the LORD
    now in the presence of all his people,

    In the courts of the LORD'S house, in the midst of thee, O Jerusalem. Praise ye the LORD.
     
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  15. DaChaser

    DaChaser Active Member

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    We will have the fight between our fallen natures and the Holy Spirit indwelling us until we die or are resurrected!
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    sure, Ephesians 4:32.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  17. WaterSong

    WaterSong Well-Known Member

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    If someone is dead in their sins and are a sinner before finding Christ, and then find Christ,repent, are reborn in Christ, and are a new creation, are they still a sinner who sins?
    If they are, then all of those grace filled steps that led to their redemption are null and void and a fallacy.
    If we are saved from our sins by the grace of God and yet are still sinners, we are living a lie.

    No, the Christian is no longer a sinner who sins.
     
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  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Now lets learn something,
    for all those who didn't get what the minister in the video, and Ephesian 4:32, and James 5:16 said, the question might go out, well there is no Law, then there is no sin aganist God.... is that not a reasonable question to ask... an excellent question,

    well let the Lord Jesus answer the question, Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"Matthew 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"Matthew 25:33 "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."Matthew 25:34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"Matthew 25:35 "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:"Matthew 25:36 "Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me."Matthew 25:37 "Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?"Matthew 25:38 "When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?"Matthew 25:39 "Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?"Matthew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." (BINGO). Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"Matthew 25:42 "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:"Matthew 25:43 "I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not."Matthew 25:44 "Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?"Matthew 25:45 "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

    well aint that something... "ye did it not to me" ... Hmmmmm Jesus is ... "GOD".

    Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  19. Dave M

    Dave M Member

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    Born again I have been set free from the enslavement of sin,, I know longer live a lifestyle of practicing sin.

    If you are a born again person and still practicing sins after 20 years I would check myslef.

    practicing sin and stumbling in sin are two differnt things
     
  20. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    anyone who do not accept christ is a sinner without a relationship with God. those who accept Christ and are born again are a sinner until the purchase price of our body redemption is fulfilled... hence the reason why we "SHALL" be saved. for we have a promise to be saved... meaning we have a hope.

    so "FAITH" is no pipe dream, Faith is the evidance of our salvation.


    Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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