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Featured PASTORS D*BATE: After Being Born Again, Do Christians Still Sin?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Ziggy, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    AMEN

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
    Isa 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
    Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
    Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
    Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
    Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
    Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
    Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
    Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
    Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
    Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
    Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
    Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 58:13c "not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words". BINGO,

    spot on Z.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Act 28:2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.

    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,

    Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Question:

    If Gentiles the barbarous people.. already had the law written on their hearts,
    what need was there for them to be taught that the law was already written on their hearts?
    Seeing they were already doing what pleased God?

    Act 28:1 And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita.
    Act 28:2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.
    Act 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
    Act 28:4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
    Act 28:5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
    Act 28:6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

    Act 28:7 In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us three days courteously.
    Act 28:8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
    Act 28:9 So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed:
    Act 28:10 Who also honoured us with many honours; and when we departed, they laded us with such things as were necessary.

    hmm..
    Thank You
    HUGS
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    lets go to the bible, Captian Cornelius, Acts chapter 10. God had to teach Peter, in a vision. listen to what the apostle Peter said, Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

    now this, Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." what word did they "hear?", the Word of Faith.

    just read that record again in acts chapter 10. THERE IS MORE THERE THAN MEETS THE EYE...... (SMILE).

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ofcourse.. which just leads me back to Rome.. :rolleyes:

    Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    What's the difference between Acts 10 and Acts 28?

    Thank You
    HUGS
     
  7. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    It's an easy conversation. Of course people who are born again still sin. Unless, like one group of Gnostic Christians who believed they could not sin after being born again. They sinned in some of the worst ways, deliberately, and claimed they were still free of sin.

    If any Christian believes they are not sinning, they are wrong. Who has not become angry at another? Who has not judged another? Who can say they never lust? Either such Christians have no insight into their own behavior, or they agree with that Gnostic sect I referred to.
     
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  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    BOTH NEED THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. without "KONWLEDGE", of the word of God ... perish.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I believe we are to strive to overcome the impulse to be "suddenly" angry or on "automatic" judging of others. avoiding lusting or coveting what others have by being thankful for what you have.
    Check yourself at the door. It's a trainng thing. You have to exercise..
    HUGS
     
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  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    that's why we have a HELPER.

    Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. BINGO, "Galatians 5:18 "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  11. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that.
     
  12. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Well-Known Member

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    The question is not "Can a Christian sin". The questions that needs to be asked are:

    Can God actually keep us from falling?

    Is our shield of faith actually promised to quench all the arrows of the enemy?

    Have we only been forgiven but delivered from the power of darkness itself?

    Is there a way for God to actually cause us to obey Him?

    We have some explaining to do. God has promised to not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist. As a matter of fact, He also assured us that in every single temptation. (note: temptation is not sin), He would make a way of escape so that we would not give in to it.

    In answer to your question posed, of course we can sin. But have we availed ourselves to the promises of our God? Has He not assured us that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh? Does this mean that abiding in Him is really a carrot on a stick, where we never actually can enjoy it because we are 'only human'? If it is possible, why are the vast multitudes of born again believers walking with yet not abiding IN Christ?

    Yes, we still have fleshly bodies and will until we are clothed with new ones at His return. BUT, and this is huge, we do not have fleshly natures any more. As a matter of fact, Paul tells us in Romans 8 that we are no longer in the flesh and owe it..... nothing. Whoa.

    So, it is clear there is an obstacle of some sort, an unidentified hindrance to our actually being able to avail ourselves to these amazing promises of God. Such a hindrance is forgivable but only IF we are seeking out where the problem lies. To remain in sin and be content there, forgiven but with no desire for His very nature is a sin whose magnitude cannot be overstated.

    There is no denying that God's will for us is our sanctification, that every saint knows how to possess their vessel in sanctification and honor. He wants us to abide in Him, and walk in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our lives. And it is revealed in scriptures that although with us it is impossible, it is also revealed that He will do the keeping as we trust Him to.

    In these last days, each one of us will have to decide.....do we just want forgiveness and eternal life, or do we truly long to please our Lord by bringing not only our actions but every thought into subjection to the obedience of Christ? Sadly, far too many currently are not real bullish on ceasing from sin.Part of it may be hopelessness that it is possible, and I certainly get that, but our hearts.... should they not be crying out like Paul's did when he found himself imprisoned and chained to sin that he longed to be freed from?

    We love to quote Romans 7 as our "excuse" for sin in our lives. We fail, however, to realize that because of the depth of his hunger for victory, God led him out of Romans 7 and into Romans 8. He discovered the secret that can only be found by a broken, contrite, hungry heart and we are about to discover that secret just as Paul did..... and it will blow our minds.

    The next move of God will be for the saints to awake to righteousness by being taight the HOW of holiness. God is not returning for a lukewarm church. When He returns, His children will be prepared for His arrival. We are about to witness, and praise God, be a part of, that awakening.

    We have it down pat that we cannot cease from sin. Yes, grace forgives. However, grace is also supposed to teach us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. Amen? We are about to get the second half of that equation, that God can and will keep us from falling, and transform us into overcomers, victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil..... when we finally believe it is our birthright and our God will do exactly as He has promised. Our faith is about to be filled full.

    blessings,

    Gideon
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
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  13. WaterSong

    WaterSong Well-Known Member

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    Your signature, spiritual saboteur, gives me pause. Your closing line, Remember... for me is a message to those who read you that you are not open to debate as pertains to your views that you equate as being on par with God himself.
    Therefore, you'll understand when I don't offer any reply aside from this personal observation to what you've shared as your doctrine given your forewarning that you are not to be addressed when you are wrong.

    God Bless.
     
  14. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    Our sins? Was John a Christian?
     
  15. Dave M

    Dave M Member

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    yet it also says
    1 John 3:9
    No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.4

    the key in my understanding is the word practice,
     
  16. kcnalp

    kcnalp Well-Known Member

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    I agree absolutely! But some say Christians CANNOT sin. The Scriptures fit together.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  17. Blood Bought 1953

    Blood Bought 1953 Well-Known Member

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    If Christians never Sin, God Sure is mean and unfair to do all this “ chastising” of His Children That Paul writes about...
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the reply, second, my posting is not personal, but of the scriptures. why argue with one another? Galatians 5:13 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."Galatians 5:14 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."Galatians 5:15 "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another."Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

    see, I offer no personal observation of scripture, why?, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." but by scripture we break them down for comsumption. if I say something, you can bet there is scripture that I have posted to back up what I have posted.

    now your response should not be about what I said, to me, but what the scripture said, coming from God.

    now as for closing, the signature, "spiritual saboteur", someone gave me that name.... (smile), and as God do, what was ment for evil, God makes out for Good. so whatever, mine, or your signature, let it not deter your comsumption of the Word of God... ok.

    ps. thanks for reading.... and for the blessing, and the same to you. reading, that's good to hear...and again thank for asking. for as the scriptures states, "ye have not because ye ask not".

    be blessed,


    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I would to add something here. we're speaking about Christian vs sinners. scripture, 1 Peter 2:2 "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"

    I have never seen a new born babe started to "WALK" stright out of it's mother womb. as the apostle Peter said, "that ye may grow thereby:"
    as the question states, "Can God actually keep us from falling?"

    that's the question, YES, because we have fallen... but we CAN GET UP?. but we ask, do you want to get up?

    Jude 1:24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"
    great scripture, but as said, do you want not to fall, but if one fall do we get up. well lets see what the Holy Ghost say vis the apostle Peter,
    2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"
    2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;"
    2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."
    2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
    2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
    2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (SAY WHAT PETER? if, if, if, if, if, if, if, we do theses things. (BINGO).
    2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

    ye want fall if these thengs are ministered unto you. hence the GREAT COMMISSION, Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
    Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
    Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
    what are we to teach?

    1. Baptism, to be Born again, to become sons of God in a new Life. and in that new Life,

    2. teach, not argue with them what he has taught us. just say what he has said, Mark 12:28 "And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?"Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:"Mark 12:30 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."Mark 12:31 "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

    HOLD IT, STOP THE PRESS, say what Lord Jesus?, "There is none other commandment greater than these", why? Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." BINGO.

    LOVE.

    Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  20. MattMooradian

    MattMooradian Well-Known Member

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    If you claim to be without sin, then you have no need to call upon the name of Jesus, you have no need of the blood of Jesus, and you do not have to be a Christian. You are pure by your own merits and you will make it to Heaven on account of your works. If you are sinless, then you are not a Christian.
     
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