Patriotism - Un-Christlike Philosophy

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Purity

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Shalom, Purity.


Wow. You said, "Patriotism: Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism—how passionately I hate them! AE." If THAT'S your definition of patriotism, it's no wonder you have a problem with it! That's NOT the patriotism that I was taught in school - even in Christian school - when I was a child!

All I meant by the statement of the mechanics of a gun was simply that it is JUST A MACHINE! It has neither a positive nor a negative intention! A GUN IS JUST A TOOL!!! You don't need to fear it any more than you need to cherish it! No amount of gun control is going to change the hearts of those who abuse guns! Gun control SOUNDS good, but it does not work. If someone wants to acquire a gun for some illicit reason - ANY illicit reason, they WILL acquire one, legally or not!
Greetings Retro.

Gun control does not work? Ha! You guys make me laugh...like talking Veteran who loves his patriotism and believes everyone should own a gun. He has no Scriptural premise and only a trigger happy culture to support his views. He is yet to put off the old man of flesh and follow Christ more completely. It appears you may suffer from the same.

It would be better for you showed a little humility rather than pretending to know what you are talking about. (said respectfully)

The findings have been out for years about the success of gun control laws. The reality Retro is Americans love violence (not all) just the bad ones ;)

1995-2006-1.png


1995-2006-2.png


Don't you know Australia has become the test case for the rest of the world - ironically the Americans are behind on this one.

The two graphs above show how the rates of firearm homicide and firearm suicide have varied in Australia over the period 1915 to 2006. More recent figures (up to 2009) suggest that the rates remain near 0.1 per 100,000 of population for firearm homicide and 0.8 per 100,000 of population for firearm suicide. It is clear that the declines in death rates are associated with the list of stricter gun laws introduced, as shown on the right hand side of each graph.
Several Australian gun clubs are deceiving the public by claiming that the National Firearms Agreement of 1996 has not been successful. The Sporting Shooters Association (SSAA) and the International Coalition for Women in Shooting and Hunting are two examples. We believe that soon our politicians will realise that it is often unwise to trust gun club leaders on gun law matters.

The two graphs shown below use Australian Bureau of Statistics data, they show how the number of deaths by firearm homicide and firearm suicide have been greatly reduced since stricter gun laws were introduced after 32 people were murdered in six massacres by legal gun owners in 1987, and 41 people were murdered by non-criminal gun owners in two massacres in 1996.

The improved gun laws after 1996 are usually called the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) or sometimes referred to as the Howard gun laws.

From the graphs it can be seen that the reduction in yearly rates of firearm homicide and firearm suicide are approximately two thirds of what they used to be in the days before improvements were made to the laws (The long period of approx 30 years between 1956 and 1986). Thousands of lives have been saved: why do the gun clubs deny this? Are they ashamed of their stance that more Australians would die?

It took over a decade for the full worth of the post-1987 and post-1996 gun laws to be revealed, but the facts are known now and have been known for several years.

In our opinion, over a decade’s examination of gun incidents has also revealed that there were two weaknesses in the NFA, the superficiality of shooter training and insufficient rigour in several of the regulations relating to gun storage. These could be addressed now, and should be, without any major changes to the successful structure of the NFA.

Note: I am not apposed to hunting - do it myself :) just apposed to governments who openly preach Christian values all the while approving of senseless death and violent societies.

Something is a miss in your country and you are blind to its reality.

Don't worry - Christ will fix it all up when he returns.

http://guncontrol.org.au/
 

kjw47

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Man needs to realize that the spirit world actually rules the earth. Jesus taught( for present) satan is the ruler of this world(system)--Man is not going to fix anything, man is the problem being mislead by satan.---Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.
Yes patriotism will get one this-revelation 16--- With 3 inspired expressions, satan misleads every kingdom( govt,armies,supporters) to stand in opposition to God at Harmageddon. This is getting close.
 

Purity

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Man is not going to fix anything, man is the problem being mislead by satan.---Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.
Lets be very clear kjw47 when you write "Man is not going to fix anything, man is the problem being mislead by satan.---Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope." it should read "Man is not going to fix anything, man is the problem being mislead by the Flesh.---Gods kingdom is mankinds only remaining hope.

John defines ALL that is in the world - and sorry its not some make believe supernatural god. Here it is:

kjw47, Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, 2:16 because ALLthat is in the world (1. the desire of the flesh and 2. the desire of the eyes and the 3. arrogance produced by material possessions)is not from the Father, but is from the world.

Get this and you will one step closer to getting who and what the devil/satan is Heb 2:14 ;)

Your are Satan/Devil
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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Don't be deceived

Some people like to play with statistics

For all we know homicides could very well have increased .... only they used kitchen knives and baseball bats

And suicides probably continued just the same , only the method changed

Anti-gun Liberals and socialists always blame the machinery , never the criminal.
 

Secondhand Lion

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Purity,

I am trying to decide if I should respond to this or not. A couple questions if I may:

1. Are you saying it is okay to have a firearm for hunting but not for anything else?

2. Are you suggesting that the only reason to own a firearm is to be patriotic?

I am a little confused, pardon me...it happens a lot.

SL
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Christian countries like Canada , USA , Australia , have the lowest homicide rates in the world (2-5 per 100,000 people)

Pagan countries like Columbia , Venezuela , Honduras have the highest (40-80 per 100,000 people)

When governments introduce gun bans , the criminals never comply

The criminals have always been the problem , but lefty- anti- gun types are always soft on criminals

Socialist - Liberals are anti-gun , but never anti-abortion , as a matter of fact they promote abortion more than the gun lobby promotes guns

Most Liberals and socialists want to ban guns .... and ban prayer , and ban the bible , and ban any mention of Jesus Christ

A Christian who owns a gun is a very safe person to have in society

An anti-christian Liberal in government is the greatest danger in society

Don't be deceived by their propaganda
 
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Mr.Bride

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Jan 31, 2013
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Purity,

What about Chicago? Strict gun control but they're becoming(if not already) the new Mexico.

That prince of darkness moved from New Orleans to Mexico to Chicago I believe. Gun control? Nah, won't work.

The decay and degeneration of America is getting worse by the day and you think "gun control" is gonna stop killings... If I was a criminal, with a record and I wanted a gun it could be easily obtained. I'm not gonna say "Well, the law says this or that so...." I'm a criminal(lawbreaker)!!

Blessings
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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Liberals tried gun registry and gun control in Canada and it failed miserably and we have scrapped the whole thing now

laws were passed that everybody had to register their firearms .... and if you didn't you were charged with a criminal offense , even if you were an honest farmer or duck hunter.

Of course none of the criminals registered their guns ... DUH !!!!

After the system was in place a couple of years gun crimes increased.

It is always the Liberal and socialist do-gooder who comes up with these ridiculous laws thinking it will stop the criminals.

Liberals prefer killing stuff in the womb .
 

Purity

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May 20, 2013
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Melbourne
Don't be deceived

Some people like to play with statistics

For all we know homicides could very well have increased .... only they used kitchen knives and baseball bats

And suicides probably continued just the same , only the method changed

Anti-gun Liberals and socialists always blame the machinery , never the criminal.
I was waiting for some mindless individual ;) to question the validity of the statistics and it's most unfortunately you.

The Bureau of Statistics in Australia are not as corrupt as those in America - ask me in another 20 years.

A Christian who owns a gun is a very safe person to have in society
(hand on forehead in disbelief)


Purity,

I am trying to decide if I should respond to this or not. A couple questions if I may:

1. Are you saying it is okay to have a firearm for hunting but not for anything else?
No, I am saying liberal gun laws are more likely to put guns into the hands of those who lack the maturity to care for them. I recall a gun amnesty which saw thousands of guns destroyed, most of which were unsafe and of no use. What benefit is there in having so many guns in circulation?


2. Are you suggesting that the only reason to own a firearm is to be patriotic?

I am a little confused, pardon me...it happens a lot.

SL
Not so. Keeping in mind this is not isolated to America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

The numbers speaks for themselves
 

Secondhand Lion

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Jan 30, 2012
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Purity,

The title of the thread is Patriotism being an un-Christlike Philosophy, which I largely agree with depending on a few variables, but then you somehow tied it to firearm ownership and firearm statistics, this is where my confusion came in.

If you would like to write about how being patriotic to ones country over Christ is not Christlike, we should steer the conversation to that area.

If you would like to write about a firearms place in a society and join it with patriotism, it should be demonstrated first how they are indeed tied to patriotism.

If you just want to show firearms to be evil, we can have that conversation also, but I think that should be stated plainly.

If you are trying to show the United States of America to be evil based on our firearm availability, we can have that conversation also.

What exactly are you trying to get across? Does it have anything to do with patriotism?

SL
 

Purity

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May 20, 2013
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Purity,

You skip, passed my question.

SL

Are you referring to patriotism?
Christians Australians today kill under the umbrella of patriotism as do Christian Americans. All nations of the world train for war - its a reality which Christ is coming to change.

You will recall the prophetic Spirit speaking as prophesying things to come, He says, “For the law will go forth from Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem, and he shall judge in the midst of the nations and rebuke many people. And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, and nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn to war anymore.”

Christians today must recognised the current patriotic order of things will change and while the Christian is not a passivist he is under command to suffer whatsoever his enemy bring upon him.

Purity

Arnie Manitoba said:
Purity .... have homicides increased or decreased in Australia ?

Come clean please
Declined as per the evidence which is clean evidence ;)

I know its hard to handle the truth.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

I wonder if you can accept the truth? It will be a test of character for you Arnie.

Mr.Bride said:
And Purity,

What about Chicago??
Mr.Bride

I don't know anything about Chicago's crime rate however it appears from http://news.yahoo.com/2013-ends-big-drop-homicides-chicago-212612071.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago appears to show homicides are coming down from their heights in the 70's

"Murders in the city peaked first in 1974, with 970 murders when the city's population was over three million, resulting in a murder rate of around 29 per 100,000, and again in 1992, with 943 murders when the city had fewer than three million people, resulting in a murder rate of 34 per 100,000.

Following 1992, the murder count slowly decreased to 641 in 1999. In 2002, Chicago had fewer number of murders but a significantly higher murder rate than New York or Los Angeles"

But this may or may not be attributed to gun laws...like I said I don't know enough to comment.

Purity
 

kjw47

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John 14:30=satan--- John 16:11 = satan--

2 Corinthians 4:4 calls satan--- god of this world.
 

Secondhand Lion

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Purity said:
Christians Australians today kill under the umbrella of patriotism as do Christian Americans. All nations of the world train for war - its a reality which Christ is coming to change.

You will recall the prophetic Spirit speaking as prophesying things to come, He says, “For the law will go forth from Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem, and he shall judge in the midst of the nations and rebuke many people. And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, and nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn to war anymore.”

Christians today must recognised the current patriotic order of things will change and while the Christian is not a passivist he is under command to suffer whatsoever his enemy bring upon him.

Purity
Okay. I can appreciate your viewpoint on it, if it is indeed what God has lead you to believe for your life. I personally think maybe you have not thought it the whole way through.

I am assuming you do not have children, maybe I am wrong, but I find that it is normally people who do not have children who do not understand how necessary a firearm is. Don't believe in fighting? You must not have a child who is completely dependent on you for their protection. I do not want to get too graphic, but I promise you...you walk through a door to find a large man raping your 12 year old daughter....you will believe in fighting. If you do not fight in that moment...I would contend that is an un-Christlike philosophy. A 70 pound little girl or 110 pound woman against a 250 pound man? A firearm saves the day.

I hope you can appreciate my point of view, I have trained both of my children in the proficient use of a firearm. I agree, a Christian should never be the aggressor in use of a firearm.

If you have no idea what I am talking about...fall down on your knees and thank a Holy God you don't. He is certainly the One who has protected you.

SL
 

kjw47

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There is a saying in Gods word---- Those who live by the sword( put there trust in it) die by the sword----- the word gun can be substituted for sword. Or one can trust in God---its called faith.