Gun Violence and Gun Control

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IceAndFire1328

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Mar 17, 2013
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[SIZE=medium]Gun Violence and Gun Control[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I want to start out by saying that I am not a gun enthusiast or a gun collector and I have no personal stake in this argument. I just want to bring up two points that seems to be lost in all of the frustration and anger resulting from this debate. There are two questions we need to consider:[/SIZE]

  1. [SIZE=medium]Would new gun laws actually resolve the current problems?[/SIZE]
  2. [SIZE=medium]Is this recent rise in gun violence directly related to the abundance of guns?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1) Gun Laws:[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] There are two types of gun control laws that could be enacted:[/SIZE]

  • [SIZE=medium]Add extra criminal charges and more prison time when a gun is used in a crime.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]Eliminate purchasing loopholes and make it much harder to purchase a gun.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]We already have extremely strict penalties regarding using guns in criminal encounters. These laws help deter gun use in certain types of crimes and I’m not opposed to adding stiffer sentences to these crimes. However, a person intent on murder (or mass murders) is not going to be concerned about facing additional years in prison because he used a gun. He already is facing the death penalty or life in prison. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This only leaves the option of enacting laws designed to keep guns from these people in the first place. Apart from any Constitutional arguments, is it even realistic to think that this would work? Restricting gun access might work if the U.S. didn’t have many guns in the first place and we could restrict guns from coming across our borders. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Even if the U.S. didn’t have many guns, we would never be able to keep new guns from crossing our very porous borders. Remember, we are almost powerless in stopping drugs and illegal immigrants from crossing our borders. Even with all of our security concerns after 9/11, we still have not been able to seal up these borders.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]As of 2007, there were over 270 million civilian guns in the U.S (Small Arms Survey 2007 p. 67). We are not even talking about military or law enforcement guns. Do we really think that all of these civilian guns are owned by upstanding law-abiding citizens? No, it is estimated that around 75 to 100 million of these guns are owned by the criminal underworld or by people who could not pass the current background checks. In addition, millions of guns are currently available on the black market. For all practical purposes, buying an illegal gun is just as easy as buying illegal drugs. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Yes, it is true that many of the recent high-profile shootings were done with guns that were purchased legally. However, is that really the issue? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that we are able to enact laws that would completely close off all loopholes for the sales of legal guns. Only solid law-abiding citizens can now purchase guns. Let’s also say that we don’t have over 230 thousand guns stolen from homes every year (Bureau of Justice Statistics, November 8, 2012). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Do you really think that a person who is bent on murder would have a moral dilemma about buying an illegal gun from the black market instead of through legal channels? Unless you can effectively eliminate the sales of guns in the criminal under-world, new gun control laws will be virtually ineffective. Yes, these laws would make us feel good, but they would be unproductive.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]2) The reason for the recent gun violence: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Is our recent increase in gun violence a result of a recent surplus of guns? No, the United States has always had an abundance of guns, but we have not always had this level of violence or gun violence. Violence, especially gun violence has increased significantly over the past several decades. If the abundance of guns is not the source of this violence, what is the source?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]For whatever reason, there has been a marked shift in the stability of our society. A large number of people are now developing a tendency toward violent outbursts. Their ability to control these outbursts also seems to be diminishing. In addition, a large number of people have taken on the mindset that they don’t need to follow “normal social behavior.” What is causing this shift? I’m sure there are many factors involved in this problem, but I would like to offer a partial explanation. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]We are all governed by various sets of values. Some of these values are hard wired within us, such as the feeling that it is wrong to lie, steal, rape, and murder. Other values have been instilled in us by our parents, schools, and community, such as work ethics, cultural expectations, etc. As we grow up we begin to realize that some of these values are man-made and we start to wonder if we need to keep them. Some of these values are discarded while others are kept.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Despite all of these changes, the person still feels that certain behavior is inherently right or wrong. However, what would happen if the person would be continually bombarded with the teaching that there are no absolute truths, no universal standard of right or wrong? Well, basically, he will begin to feel that no behavior is inherently good or bad, nothing is really wrong. He would feel that he can basically do whatever he wants. He would be free to pursue whatever would profit him the most. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Now, couple this mindset with a person who is extremely angry. Normally, when a person is angry, his actions are governed by a value system that prohibits certain anti-social actions. However, when a person believes that there are no absolute values of right or wrong, then there is nothing to hold him back. An extremely angry person who has no anti-social restrictions is capable of doing almost anything. They are hurting deep inside and they want others to hurt. Hurting a large number of people becomes one of their consuming desires.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]If the shift in society is the real reason why we have an increase in gun violence, especially the high-profile school shootings, then gun control or even gun elimination will not make any significant difference in the violence we are experiencing. Violent people will simply find a new weapon of choice. If a person wants to harm other people, he will find a way to do it. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]If clubs were the only weapons available, this angry person would use a club to try to beat to death as many people as possible. If there are no other people nearby who also have clubs, he will probably be able to hurt or kill a large number of people. As a general rule, any weapon can be used as a weapon of mass murder if there are no other weapons nearby to stop him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Many people will disagree with me. They will argue that eliminating guns will eliminate the ability to quickly attack a large number of people. While it is true that guns are quick and convenient, other weapons can also be used to attack large groups of people in a short period of time. The stabbing of 14 people at the Lone Star Texas Community College two weeks ago is proof of this. If guns were eliminated, knifes or machetes could easily take their place. Machetes have been used in numerous attacks at school. Following is a quick list of attacks at schools where machetes were used.[/SIZE]

  • [SIZE=medium]1977, a man kills five people in El Socorro [/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]1996, a man slashed seven people in a primary school in England[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]2001, a man brutally slashed nine people in Pennsylvania [/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]2010, a man in Nanping China hacked 13 children, killing 8[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]2011, a student was killed in South Africa[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]2012, a man in Guangxi China hacked 16 people in a private day care, killing 3[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=medium]2012, a man in Guatemala City killed two children [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The only reason why we have more shootings at school verses stabbings is because guns are currently the weapon of choice. If guns were eliminate the violent people would simply move to a new weapon of choice.[/SIZE]
 
Mar 8, 2013
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adding up all o0f the local,state and federal gun laws its said there are over twenty thousand gun laws!!! if our politicians havent come up with common sence gun laws by now its a safe bet all these laws arent for safety and protectin of the 2nd amenment.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
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I heard that guns kill people. Apparently spoons make people fat as well. I don't own a gun so I can't tell you is he's ever killed anyone, but I do own lots of spoons. I'm going to go and set up a camera, and maybe if I'm lucky, I'll get some rare footage of one of these spoons slipping away to makes someone fat. :p
 
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biggandyy

I am here to help...
Oct 11, 2011
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I have been part of the 2nd Amendment fight in my Commonwealth and for this Nation for quite a while now and there is one universal truth in this: progressives can not be reasoned with because they are not using reason to make their decisions. Not a slam on them, just a simple fact. They are using their emotions first rather than sound judgement and common sense.. ok, that last part was a bit of a slam, but you get the picture. There is zero way to argue against emotion because by definition it is internal to the person. That is why we have "20,000 gun laws" and the hew and cry for more.
 

Polt

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Feb 5, 2013
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Banning guns would cause crime in two ways. It would cause crime because criminals would know their potential victims are probably defenseless. And, it would cause crime by creating a black gun market. Black markets are controlled through often violent criminal activities.

Banning criminals from buying guns isn't effective. They'll just steal a gun or get someone else to buy one for them.

There are many ways to reduce murders. But, our government is Hell-bent on avoiding some of these ways. One of those ways is to return to a godly society.
 

zhavoney

Son Of Man
Aug 25, 2013
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ZebraHug said:
I heard that guns kill people. Apparently spoons make people fat as well. I don't own a gun so I can't tell you is he's ever killed anyone, but I do own lots of spoons. I'm going to go and set up a camera, and maybe if I'm lucky, I'll get some rare footage of one of these spoons slipping away to makes someone fat. :p
That is hilarious. People Make People Fat and People Kill people.
 

BLACK SHEEP

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May 24, 2013
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If guns don't kill people then why do people carry them?
People TYPICALLY carry them because they are scared of other people who have guns.
Do cars transport people? Or do people transport people?
Do excavators dig tons of dirt? Or do people dig tons of dirt?
Do lawnmowers mow lawns? Or do people mow lawns?

People say that guns are an inanimate object. That they are! But they carry what's called a "live round!"
You have about the same potential of killing someone with any inanimate object as you do a gun.."without a live round!"
See the difference?

A gun has a cartridge that has a primer that ignites a propellant (usually cordite) that launches a projectile thousands of feet per second.

Guns were designed and even perfected for killing...at long distances away!
Man develops and makes things for specific purposes to make life easier and more productive. That's why we've developed lawnmowers, cars, and excavators, etc.

So for someone to say that guns don't kill people, people kill people.............
I have to wonder......

WHY DID THE INDIANS WANT THEM SO BAD!

THE PROBLEM WITH THE GUN LOBBY IS THAT THEY PUT THEIR POLITICS WAY AHEAD OF COMMON SENSE!

AND! YOU CAN'T CLASSIFY GUNS BY PUTTING THEM IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS.......SPOONS, CARS, LAWNMOWERS, OR DISEASE LIKE MANY MISLED GUN OWNERS DO.

I HAVE A CDL DRIVERS LICENSE. (COMMERCIAL DRIVERS LICENSE) IT'S CLASSIFIED INTO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. THERE'S SOME THINGS I CAN DRIVE AND SOME THAT I CAN'T. THERE'S THINGS THAT I CAN HAUL AND THERE'S THINGS THAT I CAN'T.

PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE AND WHO CLASSIFY THEM BY PUTTING THEM IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS INANIMATE OBJECTS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE OF WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.
 

biggandyy

I am here to help...
Oct 11, 2011
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Apparently neither do you. You've posted that exact rant before and it was soundly ridiculed.
 

Dodo_David

Melmacian in human guise
Jul 13, 2013
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As I see it, some people promote stricter control of firearms because it is easier for them to do that than it is for them to deal with the problem of human wickedness, which is the real cause of violent crimes.
 
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jiggyfly

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Nov 27, 2009
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ZebraHug said:
I heard that guns kill people. Apparently spoons make people fat as well. I don't own a gun so I can't tell you is he's ever killed anyone, but I do own lots of spoons. I'm going to go and set up a camera, and maybe if I'm lucky, I'll get some rare footage of one of these spoons slipping away to makes someone fat. :p
Excellent post and logic! :)
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Glad I will never have to make a decision to kill another person with a gun.
 

Dodo_David

Melmacian in human guise
Jul 13, 2013
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aspen2 said:
Glad I will never have to make a decision to kill another person with a gun.
Hopefully, you will never be in the position of encountering an armed criminal who intends on harming you.
I hope that I am never in that position either.
 

zhavoney

Son Of Man
Aug 25, 2013
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Motor vehicles Kill more People every year in the united states than Gun crime ever thought of. approx. 32,000 people per year. Let's get them off of the road.

There were 8,306 people killed in 2010 from Gun violence.
 

jiggyfly

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Nov 27, 2009
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zhavoney said:
Motor vehicles Kill more People every year in the united states than Gun crime ever thought of. approx. 32,000 people per year. Let's get them off of the road.

There were 8,306 people killed in 2010 from Gun violence.
Good point, seems we need to make cars illegal and while we are at it, aircraft too, but let's not forget fertilizer (chicken manure) bombs. :lol:
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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well, as soon as it is determined that cars are made for the sole purpose of killing, you will be making a logical comparison. I'll wait.....
 

zhavoney

Son Of Man
Aug 25, 2013
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aspen2 said:
well, as soon as it is determined that cars are made for the sole purpose of killing, you will be making a logical comparison. I'll wait.....
And I will wait for the determination that Guns are made for the sole purpose of killing. Because they are not. I have loads of fun with my fifty caliber on the range seeing just how far I can back up and still hit my target. I also love to shoot skeet with my winchester 1100. I have never and would never use them on a living creature.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Why do you need a gun that was made for killing for target practice? Also, there are guns made specifically for skeet......
 

biggandyy

I am here to help...
Oct 11, 2011
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Why does he have to justify to you on his ownership of anything much less a firearm?

He doesn't. One can ask the question but if there is no response forthcoming that is certainly not an impugning of the character of the gun owner. It simply means it's none of your business.