If you consider God's law a burden, better check the spirit you are following...Apostle John in 1st John says His commandments are NOT burdensome...
Paul was a wolf in sheeps clothing
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If you consider God's law a burden, better check the spirit you are following...Apostle John in 1st John says His commandments are NOT burdensome...
Why those who are in Christ do not need the law.
God is love, Jesus came to show us God, Jesus is love, Jesus asks us to Love since we where created in the himage of God we where meant to Love.
What has love to do with teh law. Nothing, The Law condemns Love forgives
Love does not need teh law,
to do good
to do what is right
to help a friend
to love your enemy
to not condemn
to not hate
to love God
to Love Jesus
to be patient
but those who are not in Christ have no love so they need the law, for without it they can do no good, and so condemn themselves for as it says.
1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
In all His Love
God is love, Jesus came to show us God, Jesus is love, Jesus asks us to Love since we where created in the himage of God we where meant to Love.
What has love to do with teh law. Nothing, The Law condemns Love forgives
Love does not need teh law,
to do good
to do what is right
to help a friend
to love your enemy
to not condemn
to not hate
to love God
to Love Jesus
to be patient
but those who are not in Christ have no love so they need the law, for without it they can do no good, and so condemn themselves for as it says.
1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
In all His Love
It is interesting how Stanj has to keep adding outside sources to try and prove his erroneous points...He should pray to God for understanding of the simple words of Jesus in the Gospels, and he would understand those words without relying on someone from the from world giving him their distorted interpretation of the Holy scriptures.
Okay so you do not believe Apostle John..then, and you do not believe Jesus in Matthew 5 either...interesting how satan can affect your mind isn't it!mjrhealth said:
That's all I'm trying to do, Stan.StanJ said:
Why do you think I keep trying to get you to stop doing those things and just talk about the topic at hand?
I have.
Saying that Jesus will be back for His church is not "against proper eschatology".
I know the Jesus Who said:
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
I don't know this Endicott guy. We could pull up an "expert" who thinks God was an alien, for all that's worth. I think I'll stick with Jesus...
Love. What is it and what does it do, Mj?mjrhealth said:
Do you love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, all your mind, and all your strength?
If you do, do you have any other gods before Him?
Do you make idols and worship them?
Do you blaspheme His name?
Do you keep His sanctified day holy, Mj?
Do you truly love God enough to observe these things?
Do you love your neighbor as yourself, Mj?
Do you honor your parents?
Do you celebrate life, or do you murder?
Do you keep faith with the wife or your youth, or do you commit adultery against her?
Do you respect the possessions of others, or do you steal?
Do you keep your dealings with others honest, or do you lie?
Tell us, Mj...have you ever longed for something that someone else had...that new car for instance, or that cool new PS3? That super new laptop? That outrageously expensive cell phone that does everything but pay the bills for you? How about that huge television set with surround sound that turns the den into a movie theatre? Or that heated swimming pool? That super hot tub with the massage jets? LOL!
Or do you have enough love in you to be happy for your brother or sister that has these things, even though you may not be able to afford them yourself?
Just how do you define the word "love", Mj? Is it a verb, does it move you to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, visit the sick or those in prison? Or is it just a pretty church word?
Oh so now you are beginning too understand what love does. Do you need teh law to do that or do you need the law to Love and do what is right. See Jesus came and showed the pharrisees the ones who kept the law, Love because that is what God is Love, yet they hated Him for it, for they loved the "letter" of the law and had no love. Still you do not undertsand, Jesus never gave "you' the law, it is you who chooses to live by it, Jesus told us to "love" we gentiles never had teh law, it was never and still is not ours,, Are you perfect, do you not make mistakes are you still not living in your flesh, do you not yet understand why Jesus condemend sin to teh flesh, untill you take this before the Lord and ask Him for understanding you will keep going around and around the same circle, no one can teach you, revelation comes from God, but how can one get it if one doesnt ask.
The law condemns you Barrd, it is all it ever did and its all it will ever do, it doesnt please God because keeping it undoes all teh Good works that Jesus did. It is by faith we please God, yet here you are striving afetr teh law trying to perfect yourself by your own works. Jesus already did that, that is why it says,
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
As even Stan says,
He is our righteousness, as long as we insist on doing it ourselves we are no abiding in Him and not at rest(sabbath) as it says,
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
But there are many who are in unbelief,
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
It in your hands.
And it does what. Dont you know what the law does, what is it you do not understand. Dont you understand what Jesus did and what He died for, The law condemns, teh law requires a blood sacrifice, Jesus was that sacrifice that paid for teh sins of all men, if you insist on keeping the law, which for you it is impossible, than Christ died in vain for there is no longer any sacrifice remaining, and so you condmen yourself to death by the law. Christ died for you once, He will not do it again.
Dont you know why we have grace and not the law.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
How can the Jews be jealous of christans who insist on living under the same covenant that condemend them.
MJR...just as I thought you avoid the question....don't you know grace, faith and law work together? Pity you do not know that...As Paul said in Romans "do we sin more so grace abounds" God forbid...and "do we make void the law through faith? God Forbid. We establish the law"....You need a lot of prayer to gain the understanding necessary for salvation, through God's grace, faith and the law of God, as they work hand in hand..
Actually I didnt,
You really have no comprehension of where you have placed yourself. Lets explain.
In the beginning God created Adam and eve in His image. God is Love they where made in Love. Love does no eveil, there was no law it was not needed.
Than Adam fell from Grace and Sin entered into the world. Not the Law just Sin.
Untill Moses there was no law for any one, Moses gave teh law to teh Jews.
Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
So what changed, Before teh law there was sin, what they did not have was this.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Now do you see what the law did, it brought "condmenation" to the Jews, we gentiles stil had no law it was not ours.
We got the best deal. this bit
Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
And as Jesus said you cant have both its one or the other,
Mat_9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Mar 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
But you see there are many who have not yet received the New Testament so for them,
Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
That the bit you are holding on too,
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
I guess you missed that bit.
Actually it is you who are confused...you seem to have a problem differentiating between the law of Moses...the 613 laws circumcision, sacrificial, food, festival, feast days etc laws that ended at the cross...you are quoting all those which are leading you astray...these were eliminated with the exception of 4 in Acts 15.
God's law never changes, just like God, He never changes..read the book of Malachi.
I should even put ths
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
I guess you missed the whole point, who did God give the ten commandments too, who then did that person give them too.
It is those ten commandmenst that condemns a man the rest of teh laws where just a heavy burden.
Exo_20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo_20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo_20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo_20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo_20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo_20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo_20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo_20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo_20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Break any of these and you die, there is no grace for those who choose the law. None.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Was not Chirsts sacrifice enough for you that you have to go and pay it yourself.?? Because that is exactly what you are doing, treading His Grace underfoot.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
I guess you missed the whole point, who did God give the ten commandments too, who then did that person give them too.
It is those ten commandmenst that condemns a man the rest of teh laws where just a heavy burden.
Exo_20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo_20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo_20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo_20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo_20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo_20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo_20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo_20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo_20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo_20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Break any of these and you die, there is no grace for those who choose the law. None.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Was not Chirsts sacrifice enough for you that you have to go and pay it yourself.?? Because that is exactly what you are doing, treading His Grace underfoot.
Wrong again...you are still confused MJR...learn to distinguish between the Mosaic law, and God's law, then you will be making progress...until then..well you got free will...
FHII
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There is no difference. I used to think there was, but there isn't. We're going about this all wrong. We can only follow the law of God (which is the same as the kaw of Moses) with the spiritual mind. Not the carnal mind or by the flesh.heretoeternity said:
Really, if Moses had not given the Jews the ten commandments they would have nothing to condemn them, why do you think it is that the world today is removing them from the courts, they dont want to be reminded of how bad we really are. Simple thing is , those who walk in love need no laws to not do evil, it is those who do do evil that need the ten commandments because they need something to remind them , to show them what is right and wrong just as you do. this is why Christ gave us one, that is to LOve because love covers everything. God is Love, Jesus is the express image of God, Jesus is love, there is no evil in Him. We where created in the image of God, Love just as He is. Without love you have nothing.
Without God's love you have nothing.....and if you do not believe in His law, then who are you following?
Hebrews 8 and 10 God says I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds and they will be my people and I will be their God....so if you do not have His commandments written on your heart and mind who are you really following?
BTW you still didn't answer my question from a few posts back..."do you have God's law written on your heart and mind?
Hebrews 8 and 10 God says I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds and they will be my people and I will be their God....so if you do not have His commandments written on your heart and mind who are you really following?
BTW you still didn't answer my question from a few posts back..."do you have God's law written on your heart and mind?
Amen to the first bit, who said I didnt believe in His laws, they are good and right, Jesus never gave us the Ten commandments, God gave them to moses who gave them to teh Jews, to show them how fallible they whjere and how they needed God, yet even with the laws, like so may christians they insist on earning their way to heaven by trying to keep them.
BTW that actually was not a question but a statement. I have a concience that all the gentiles had, that is what tells us right from wrong. Even having teh laws written in ones mind will not stop anyone from breaking them, as they where made for the perfect person, and teh ony one I know of who was perfect was Jesus. So again having the law written in your mind will condemn you, as that what laws do, it sends people to jail, even into days world, Is that where you want to spend eternity??
Again it is the law ' your best efforts" or grace , the best from God, Its one or the other which will it be??
The law has never and will never save anyone, they even slew our saviour. Dont you get it.
And that is where I wil lleave it, God will not argue with the wisdom of men. If you havnt got it yet you never will, Revelation comes from God not from reading books, something so many dont seem to get.
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