Peace and War
- Thread starter Matthias
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* Our son was a medic who fought alongside the USMC in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Would your son ever have agreed to fight alongside the USMC against followers of Jesus?
What is the treatment for the dead?
Are you telling me that your son agreed to kill followers of Jesus? And if you are, do you think Jesus is pleased with the decision?
Is there not a difference between peacemakers and peacekeepers?
Does a follower of Jesus killing and wounding his enemies act consistently with Jesus’ teaching concerning how his followers are to treat their enemies?
Either scenario.
”We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” - Apostle Paul
“We [who fought with the USMC] used the weapons of the world.” - USMC veterans
Is there not a disconnect?
“We shrink from being meek because we are afraid that if we do not stand up for ourselves we shall be trodden down and victimized, and end up among life’s casualties and failures … we are not persuaded of the adequacy of God to provide for all the needs of those who launch out wholeheartedly on the deep sea of unconventional living in obedience to the call of Christ. … We are afraid to go all the way in accepting the authority of God, because of our secret uncertainty as to his adequacy to look after us if we do.”
(J.I. Packer, Knowing God, p. 270)
I think this general observation is relevant in understanding why some people don’t conform to the Messiah’s teaching on how his followers are to treat their enemies.
(J.I. Packer, Knowing God, p. 270)
I think this general observation is relevant in understanding why some people don’t conform to the Messiah’s teaching on how his followers are to treat their enemies.
Is killing enemies compatible with Jesus’ teaching / command to his followers, “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”?
Is killing enemies compatible with Paul’s teaching / observation, “We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world”?
“Peace will be established only by the reign of the prince of peace.” - C.H. Spurgeon
If that is true - and I firmly believe that it is - what are the followers of the prince of peace (Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of the living God) to do while we wait for him to return and sit on the throne of his father David in Jerusalem?
If that is true - and I firmly believe that it is - what are the followers of the prince of peace (Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of the living God) to do while we wait for him to return and sit on the throne of his father David in Jerusalem?
“Imagine Christians in one country believing it was their biblical duty to fight in a war against Christians of another country. And imagine that those on both sides of the war believed God wanted them to kill Christians on the other side of the conflict and backed this up with Scripture? That’s the story of World War I. Theologians in the U.S. and Great Britain were convinced it was biblically justified to kill Christians from Germany and Austria-Hungary in order to ‘make the world safe from tyranny.’
They were God’s liberators, freeing people from Austro-Hungarian oppression.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic, Christian theologians in Germany and in the Austro-Hungarian Empire believed they had the moral high ground. After all, it was their archduke who was brutally assassinated in an act of violence by Serbians trying to gain independence. This was a ‘just war,’ because the other side was the aggressor. The ‘other guy’ had thrown the first punch. They were simply defending the Empire from violent agitators. The rulers of Empire were the ‘governing authorities’ whom God commanded Christians to obey. …”
(Scott Bessenecker, “Whose Side Is Jesus On? Faith, War, and the Danger of Nationalism”)
christiansforsocialaction.org
They were God’s liberators, freeing people from Austro-Hungarian oppression.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the Atlantic, Christian theologians in Germany and in the Austro-Hungarian Empire believed they had the moral high ground. After all, it was their archduke who was brutally assassinated in an act of violence by Serbians trying to gain independence. This was a ‘just war,’ because the other side was the aggressor. The ‘other guy’ had thrown the first punch. They were simply defending the Empire from violent agitators. The rulers of Empire were the ‘governing authorities’ whom God commanded Christians to obey. …”
(Scott Bessenecker, “Whose Side Is Jesus On? Faith, War, and the Danger of Nationalism”)
Whose Side Is Jesus On? Faith, War, and the Danger of Nationalism
When nations claim Jesus to justify war, Christians must ask: whose side is he really on? A reflection on faith, violence, and the danger of nationalism.
christiansforsocialaction.org
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Christians Killing Christians
How can Christians be persuaded not to kill their non-Christian enemies as long as Christians view one another as enemies who may be killed?
Christians killing Christians.
It ought not to be so.
Christians killing Christians.
Until Christians become persuaded that killing one another is wrong …
Christians killing Christians.
I must start here.
How can Christians be persuaded not to kill their non-Christian enemies as long as Christians view one another as enemies who may be killed?
Christians killing Christians.
It ought not to be so.
Christians killing Christians.
Until Christians become persuaded that killing one another is wrong …
Christians killing Christians.
I must start here.
“In World War I, propaganda took the form of postcards, or single-frame graphics illustrating the moral righteousness of their cause. These postcards were the memes of the early 20th century. In a German postcard, blonde Jesus blesses German troops who kneel in reverence before him with the ravishes of war all around. Above the image are the words, ‘For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.’
Meanwhile, in a British painting entitled, ‘Abide with me,’ Jesus stands in the trenches of the Allied forces, blessing an Allied soldier.
Both illustrations were designed to embolden Christian soldiers to kill other Christian soldiers for the glory of Christ, being assured that the Prince of Peace was on their side, baptizing their acts of violence on behalf of their countries.
Some have estimated that World War I generated 40 million casualties when taking into account the casualties of war as well as casualties due to starvation and disease shortly afterwards. With a global population of only 1.7 billion people, this was not an insignificant loss. The brutalities of that war, which birthed the horrors of chemical warfare, had a profound impact on the church.
Massive numbers of Christians stepped away from the faith, and Christianity began its steep decline in Europe. Christians committing acts of violence against other Christians stirred doubts about the faith. The war also sowed seeds of doubt about the righteousness of national causes. This is the result when Christians serve two masters. In the end, both the Lord of God’s kingdom and the lord of the empires of men lost.”
christiansforsocialaction.org
Meanwhile, in a British painting entitled, ‘Abide with me,’ Jesus stands in the trenches of the Allied forces, blessing an Allied soldier.
Both illustrations were designed to embolden Christian soldiers to kill other Christian soldiers for the glory of Christ, being assured that the Prince of Peace was on their side, baptizing their acts of violence on behalf of their countries.
Some have estimated that World War I generated 40 million casualties when taking into account the casualties of war as well as casualties due to starvation and disease shortly afterwards. With a global population of only 1.7 billion people, this was not an insignificant loss. The brutalities of that war, which birthed the horrors of chemical warfare, had a profound impact on the church.
Massive numbers of Christians stepped away from the faith, and Christianity began its steep decline in Europe. Christians committing acts of violence against other Christians stirred doubts about the faith. The war also sowed seeds of doubt about the righteousness of national causes. This is the result when Christians serve two masters. In the end, both the Lord of God’s kingdom and the lord of the empires of men lost.”
Whose Side Is Jesus On? Faith, War, and the Danger of Nationalism
When nations claim Jesus to justify war, Christians must ask: whose side is he really on? A reflection on faith, violence, and the danger of nationalism.
christiansforsocialaction.org
“The Pawns of War
Christians have been the pawns of war for centuries.
Kings, emperors, presidents, and prime ministers have co-opted Christianity to rally Christian populations to kill for the sake of the state. To do so has meant re-interpreting Jesus’ call to love enemies and turn the other cheek. Jesus rebuked Peter when he drew his weapon for the ultimate ‘just’ cause: that of defending the Son of God from an angry mob.
’Put your sword back in itss place,’ Jesus commanded, ‘For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.’ (Matt. 26:52)
The ancient church father Tertullian (160-220) said,
’In disarming Peter, Christ disarms all Christians.’
In the Epistle to the Romans, Paul charged 1st-century Christians, ‘Do not repay evil for evil’ (Rom. 12:17), and Peter used the very same phrase in 1 Peter 3:9. Many Christians in those early centuries took these things seriously and suffered the consequences for refusing to fight in the empire’s wars.
But what if Jesus’ command to love enemies was only meant to be applied narrowly - confined to our personal lives and relationships? What if we are called to love our personal enemies, but not the enemies of the State?
Some have interpreted Jesus’ words - ‘Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s‘ - to mean that our ultimate allegiance in matters of war belongs to the state, even when it requires our lives or asks us to set aside moral objections.
The problem is that Jesus refused violence not only in private life, but also in defense of himself and his mission in the face of political power. Standing before the Roman governor, he declared,
’My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest.’ (John 18;36)
And, of course, he already stopped his followers from doing exactly that, forbidding violence on behalf of any kingdom - even his own.”
christiansforsocialaction.org
Christians have been the pawns of war for centuries.
Kings, emperors, presidents, and prime ministers have co-opted Christianity to rally Christian populations to kill for the sake of the state. To do so has meant re-interpreting Jesus’ call to love enemies and turn the other cheek. Jesus rebuked Peter when he drew his weapon for the ultimate ‘just’ cause: that of defending the Son of God from an angry mob.
’Put your sword back in itss place,’ Jesus commanded, ‘For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.’ (Matt. 26:52)
The ancient church father Tertullian (160-220) said,
’In disarming Peter, Christ disarms all Christians.’
In the Epistle to the Romans, Paul charged 1st-century Christians, ‘Do not repay evil for evil’ (Rom. 12:17), and Peter used the very same phrase in 1 Peter 3:9. Many Christians in those early centuries took these things seriously and suffered the consequences for refusing to fight in the empire’s wars.
But what if Jesus’ command to love enemies was only meant to be applied narrowly - confined to our personal lives and relationships? What if we are called to love our personal enemies, but not the enemies of the State?
Some have interpreted Jesus’ words - ‘Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s‘ - to mean that our ultimate allegiance in matters of war belongs to the state, even when it requires our lives or asks us to set aside moral objections.
The problem is that Jesus refused violence not only in private life, but also in defense of himself and his mission in the face of political power. Standing before the Roman governor, he declared,
’My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest.’ (John 18;36)
And, of course, he already stopped his followers from doing exactly that, forbidding violence on behalf of any kingdom - even his own.”
Whose Side Is Jesus On? Faith, War, and the Danger of Nationalism
When nations claim Jesus to justify war, Christians must ask: whose side is he really on? A reflection on faith, violence, and the danger of nationalism.
christiansforsocialaction.org
TrevorHL
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Greetings Matthias,
Possibly this has been referred to previously, but this is the first time i have encountered this, a brief reminder of Isaiah 2:1-4, the United Nations and its failure to bring peace and the USSR partially interesting but incorrect depiction of Isaiah 2:1-4.
Kind regards
Trevor
Possibly this has been referred to previously, but this is the first time i have encountered this, a brief reminder of Isaiah 2:1-4, the United Nations and its failure to bring peace and the USSR partially interesting but incorrect depiction of Isaiah 2:1-4.
Kind regards
Trevor
TrevorHL
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- Jul 17, 2024
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This is an important issue to me. Beneath the mushroom cloud Christians and non-Christians are wounded,dead, dying.
Above the mushroom cloud Christians and non-Christians are pondering what they have done. some have regrets, some don’t.
There was an enormous amount if suffering. Was Jesus suffering?
“A long-lost memoir written by Hiroshima survivor and Methodist priest Kiyoshi Tanimoto has been discovered in a US archive and will be published nearly 80 years after it was first written, alongside a major film adaptation already in development. …”
leadership.ng
Lost Hiroshima Survivor Memoir: Set For Film Adaptation
A long-lost memoir written by Hiroshima survivor and Methodist priest Kiyoshi Tanimoto has been discovered in a US archive and will be published nearly 80
leadership.ng
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