Mountain moving faith was Yahweh’s way of being glorified in the sovereign reign of the king. “It shall be done” mountain moving faith used in conjunction with the prayer of faith. Was Jesus pushing them toward faith or was he proving Israel’s lack of faith?Angelina said:
People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!
- Thread starter newnature
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Israel did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the coming one. That is why God sent Paul to the gentiles. :huh: I do not understand your post?
Mountain moving faith is unque only to those kingdom saints. We also see the “prayer of faith” Israel walked by sight, Yahweh allowed their prayer life to work in connection with sight as that earthly kingdom was on their doorstep. Yahweh worked in connection with the sign nation, the healings that were performed and the power resident in the prayer of faith.Angelina said:
When the kingdom program was ongoing and Jesus was ready to rule and reign right here on earth, a troubled believer could pray the prayer of faith, when presented with suffering circumstances and those circumstance would disappear. Yahweh provided that prayer of faith, because that kingdom was at hand and the time for troubling circumstances had come to an end. It was time to put an end to pain and suffering, because it was time for the King to rule and reign on this earth.
Abraham had mountain moving faith and so did Noah. Not to mention Moses, Joshua, David and so many others in the O/T because God had an overall plan for restoring mankind back to him through his coming son and through a specific lineage. The O/T saints had a leader whom God directly spoke through. Today, God speaks to his children individually and as a corporate body through the Holy Spirit who was given us at salvation by grace through faith. I do not know what this "Kingdom program" you speak of and I assume that it is part of your denominations catch phrase words however, there is a difference between a believer praying by faith about an issue and God using the O/T saints to fulfill his ultimate plan of salvation through various situations and occurrences which brings us to today's Christians who are a testament to Christ's redeeming work on the cross ~ salvation and eternal life.
BB
BB
Let's say there is one program going on. So an Israelite makes that confession itself would be considered a fruit of righteousness in the eyes of Yahweh. Leviticus 26, beginning with verse 40, is the confession Israel would be called upon to make. Israel would also have to accept the remainder of her punishment, that failure under the law contract would call for and that would be the seven year tribulation.Angelina said:
Now before that kingdom could be realized, there was a prophetic event that had to take place first. The way Jesus taught has special application to that tribulation period to those people who were being taught to pray in this manner. This will be a very heartfelt prayer during the tribulation period. During the time of Jacob’s trouble, the Israelites will be under tremendous persecution from the antichrist. He will be putting Israelites to death for their faith. The Israelites will be praying at that time, “thy kingdom come” the promised earthly kingdom to be set up right here on earth, because the only hope of deliverance for the believing Israelites at that time, will be the coming of the king and setting up of the earthly kingdom. But Israel killed their king.
You do not seem to be making any sense. This portion of Leviticus is about the decrees, laws and regulations that the Lord established between himself and Israel through his servant Moses at Mt Sinai. So where are you heading to with this?
Pray in what manner??? No you're wrong! :huh: You're taking various verses out of context...
I agree with this but they will not be persecuted for their faith but rather lack of faith in Jesus. I agree that a kingdom will be set up on earth but not one that God reigns in. His kingdom is a heavenly one which will come down from heaven. Revelation 21:1, 2, 3, 9. The only hope for Israel is Jesus Christ.
Acts 4
11 Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind bywhich we must be saved.”
You see, if Israel could have their sins remitted nationally, then Israel could indeed become that holy nation and kingdom of priests. And if Israel could become that holy nation and kingdom of priests, then the Gentiles would be able to come to Yahweh through Israel’s rise. That is why it would be important for Jesus ‘the messiah’ to be risen, so Israel could have their sins remitted, and they could arise, and the Gentiles could come to Yahweh through the nation Israel. It was only Israel having access to that eternal life that would make it possible for the Gentiles to have that eternal life through Israel’s rise, through the nation Israel.Angelina said:
You see, if Israel could have their sins remitted nationally, then Israel could indeed become that holy nation and kingdom of priests. And if Israel could become that holy nation and kingdom of priests, then the Gentiles would be able to come to Yahweh through Israel’s rise. That is why it would be important for Jesus ‘the messiah’ to be risen, so Israel could have their sins remitted, and they could arise, and the Gentiles could come to Yahweh through the nation Israel. It was only Israel having access to that eternal life that would make it possible for the Gentiles to have that eternal life through Israel’s rise, through the nation Israel.
But you see, Israel nationally did not accept the Gospel of the Kingdom of Yahweh. They did not accept the Gospel of Yahweh; that Jesus was the son of Yahweh or that Jesus was the risen messiah. They did not accept that at all, so rather than rise, Israel fell. Yet, when it comes to Jesus being risen from among the dead, how could Israel’s promised earthly king sit on the throne of David in a promised literal, earthly kingdom, if the king Yahweh anointed for that kingdom remained a dead king.
If Jesus be not risen, there is no earthly king. If Jesus be not risen, there is no earthly kingdom. If there is no earthly kingdom and that is when Israel is supposed to be forgiven, then there is no forgiveness for the nation Israel; for the saints of the kingdom program. And if there is no forgiveness, there is no salvation. And if there is no salvation, there certainly is no bodily resurrection. And if there is no bodily resurrection, all this is a story, a fairytale.
Newnature, you say you have Mountain Moving faith, so my question would be, have you moved even ONE mountain?
You said those words, not me. But after all, the time period of the parable Jesus gave in Luke chapter 13, the one additional year given Israel until the fig tree was to be cut down, still has the majority of a year to transpire at this point. This is what Jesus meant when he said he gave Peter the “keys” to the Kingdom. Peter had the ability to “unlock” and “open the door” to the Kingdom, he proclaimed the message they had to believe. Jesus gave himself a ransom for MANY. Who are the “many” spoken of? Israel! The beginning of Israel’s last days of her program, they were being equipped for the upcoming time of tribulation right on their horizon.StanJ said:
Yahweh used the physical senses in every respect in connection with his sign nation at Israel’s high holy feast day called Pentecost. Yahweh gave his sign nation things to SEE and to HEAR and to SPEAK! The physical senses were used by Yahweh that Israel might WITNESS their deliverance. The expressions “before our eyes” and “in our sight” tell us how Yahweh worked as Israel was approaching the last days of her program, which was to culminate in an entrance to her promised earthly kingdom. In spite of all these visual manifestations that Yahweh worked in time past, Israel for the most part remained in unbelief. They were either attributing Yahweh’s work to Satan, or they were attributing Satan’s work to Yahweh.
Israel as a nation was still the focus in Acts chapter 2, as they were given a taste of their promised earthly kingdom there with Yahweh’s empowerments for The Tribulation endurance and for the earthly kingdom entrance. Focus is still that land and the attempt to get Israel’s leadership to change their minds about the source of their righteousness and accept Jesus as indeed their Messiah. Peter promises Israel that if she will change her minds, Yahweh will send Messiah back and their promised Kingdom can get back underway, just as it was promised. Peter called it the times of refreshing speaking of a direct reference there to the millennial reign of Messiah on the earth.
You misunderstand scripture. The gentile nations have direct access to salvation through God's son because of what he achieved on the cross. The bible tells us that Israel has been hardened for a time ...our development is not directly related to their rise or fall, We are blessed having not been brought up under the law yet being able to experience Christ's mercy through his grace toward all who believe in him by faith.
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery,brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited:Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Scripture is referring to Jesus and he is not dead but very much alive and ready to come again with his Kingdom from heaven.
Jesus has risen and ascended into heaven on the right hand of God's throne. Romans 8:34, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:3, 12:2. He will come again....
Revelation 21
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
Now the time period of the parable Jesus gave in Luke chapter 13, the one additional year given Israel until the fig tree was to be cut down, still has the majority of a year to transpire at this point. This is what Jesus meant when he said he gave Peter the “keys” to the Kingdom. Peter had the ability to “unlock” and “open the door” to the Kingdom, he proclaimed the message they had to believe. Jesus gave himself a ransom for MANY. Who are the “many” spoken of? Israel! The beginning of Israel’s last days of her program, they were being equipped for the upcoming time of tribulation right on their horizon.Angelina said:
Yahweh used the physical senses in every respect in connection with his sign nation at Israel’s high holy feast day called Pentecost. Yahweh gave his sign nation things to SEE and to HEAR and to SPEAK! The physical senses were used by Yahweh that Israel might WITNESS their deliverance. The expressions “before our eyes” and “in our sight” tell us how Yahweh worked as Israel was approaching the last days of her program, which was to culminate in an entrance to her promised earthly kingdom. In spite of all these visual manifestations that Yahweh worked in time past, Israel for the most part remained in unbelief. They were either attributing Yahweh’s work to Satan, or they were attributing Satan’s work to Yahweh.
No, you are the one that first used it in post 21 and 23, and the fact that you now deflect by stating I used those words tells me you don't really pay attention to what you actually post. Your posts are more reactive then they are responsive. Seems to me you really don't engage your brain before typing your thoughts on paper or in this case the computer screen. You're all over the place and you flit from one subject to another, without much coherency or cohesiveness, makes it very hard for us to follow your thought processes. This is not just my observation.newnature said:
I find it interesting that you use words like Yahweh here and yet when it comes to the day of Pentecost you used the Greek derivative instead of Shavuot, why is that exactly? From my experience, most people that do this, simply want to appear more Jewish so has to have their words sound more convincing. That doesn't work here. A lot of true Messianic Jews may use certain Jewish words, but they don't mix and match them. All you're really doing here is deflecting to another issue, and not really dealing with anything.newnature said:
In fact the start of the New Covenant was the focus of Acts chapter 2, and the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32, as Peter proclaimed in verse 16. Peter was not promising Israel anything, and in fact Peter was rightly identifying them for what they had done in crucifying Jesus, their own Messiah, with the help of the Romans, that he referred to as wicked men. There is only one New Covenant and it is for all the world not just the Jews. If you knew your new testament, you would know that.newnature said:
Matthew 16
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
The keys in this verse relate to the authority he has been given to [his church] to bind or loosen on earth as it is in heaven [permit or not to permit]. This is because God had given Peter a revelation of who Jesus actually is. With that same revelation, Christ's church would be established and the gates of Hades will not be able to overcome it. The "MANY" is not just Israel although Jesus came to the Lost sheep of Israel. God's plan was greater than Israel.
God's spoke to Israel through chosen leaders. He also gave them laws, regulations and decrees to live by. They observed various feasts and they did everything using rituals and various washings and ordinances. God did use a lot of signs and wonders to prove to them that he was the one speaking. There were also symbols/images and typologies of things that were to come.
Don't know what you're asking here.newnature said:
Jesus fulfilled the prophecies from Isaiah and over 650 from the Old Testament he didn't go back to that he fulfilled them in the New Covenant. News just left you it's not a continuation of the old. You need to read Hebrews 8 to understand that the old Covenant is obsolete, that means it doesn't hold any sway under the New Covenant. New means different. No means not the old. You're trying to amalgamate the old and new then quite frankly that is not only wrong it's against what all the authors of the New Testament teach. I noticed most of your opinion is not accompanied by any kind of support from scripture. Jeremiah was not a New Covenant prophet he was an old Covenant Prophet that prophesied the New Covenant. That is pretty clear and straightforward and the fact that you try to mix that up and call him and New Covenant profit really shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
When God would set his program with Israel in abeyance for the ushering in an unprophecied age with us Gentiles. From the time that God sent Moses to deliver them from their Egyptian captivity, Israel was give things to see, to witness for themselves in order to visually verify God’s presence and his purpose with them, yet, for all the visual evidences that God gave to Israel, Israel would not believe God.newnature said:
Some history of Israel, the fall of Jerusalem shattered the national and territorial basis of Israel’s culture and religion. The Babylonians had burned the temple to the ground, they carried away most of the people to exile, to life in exile in Babylon, leaving behind mostly members of the lower classes to eke out a living as best they could. And it was the completion of the tragedy that had begun centuries earlier, and it was interpreted as a fulfillment of the covenant curses.
It was the end of the Davidic monarchy, although the son of Jeholakim was alive and living in Babylon, kind of holding out hope that the line hadn’t actually been killed out, hadn’t been completely wiped out. But the institution seemed to have come to an end for now. It was the end of the temple, the end of the priesthood, the end of Israel as a nation; as an autonomous nation, the Israelites were confronted with a great test.
One could see in these events a signal that Yahweh had abandoned Israel to, or had been defeated by the god of the Babylonians, and Marduk would replace Yahweh, as the Israelites assimilated themselves into their new home. And certainly there were Israelites who went that route, but others who were firmly rooted in exclusive Yahwism did not.
Yahweh hadn’t been defeated, the nations’s calamities were not disproof of Yahweh’s power and covenant, they were proof of it. Yahweh’s desire for morality as expressed in the ancient covenant, the prophets had spoken truly when they had said that destruction would follow, if the people didn’t turn from their moral and religious violations of Yahweh’s law. The defeat and the exile had the potential to convince Israelites of the need to show absolute and undivided devotion to Yahweh and his commandments.
It was the end of the Davidic monarchy, although the son of Jeholakim was alive and living in Babylon, kind of holding out hope that the line hadn’t actually been killed out, hadn’t been completely wiped out. But the institution seemed to have come to an end for now. It was the end of the temple, the end of the priesthood, the end of Israel as a nation; as an autonomous nation, the Israelites were confronted with a great test.
One could see in these events a signal that Yahweh had abandoned Israel to, or had been defeated by the god of the Babylonians, and Marduk would replace Yahweh, as the Israelites assimilated themselves into their new home. And certainly there were Israelites who went that route, but others who were firmly rooted in exclusive Yahwism did not.
Yahweh hadn’t been defeated, the nations’s calamities were not disproof of Yahweh’s power and covenant, they were proof of it. Yahweh’s desire for morality as expressed in the ancient covenant, the prophets had spoken truly when they had said that destruction would follow, if the people didn’t turn from their moral and religious violations of Yahweh’s law. The defeat and the exile had the potential to convince Israelites of the need to show absolute and undivided devotion to Yahweh and his commandments.
Vehement denunciation moral decay and social injustice of the period, leading up to the fall of the northern kingdom and southern kingdom of Israel. A prophet criticizes the sins of the nation, he is critical of everyone, the middle class, the government, the king, the establishment, the priesthood; they’re all plagued by a superficial kind of piety. Amos, and all the prophets, the idea of covenant prescribes a particular relationship with Yahweh, but not only with Yahweh; also with one’s fellow human beings.
The two are interlinked. It is a sign of closeness to Yahweh that one is concerned for Israel’s poor and needy. The two are completely interlinked. Amos denounces the wealthy. He denounces the powerful and the way they treat the poor. The crimes that are denounced, are crimes that are prevalent in any society in any era. The crimes that are denounced as being utterly unacceptable to Yahweh, infuriating Yahweh to the point of destruction of the nation, are the kinds of crimes we see around us everyday, taking bribes, improper weights and balances, lack of charity to the poor, indifference to the plight of the debtor.
Injustice is sacrilege, the ideals of the covenant are of utmost importance. These prophets are called the standard bearers of the covenant, harking back to the covenant obligations. And without these, without the ideals of the covenant, the fulfillment of ritual obligations in and of itself is a farce. Morality is not just an obligation equal in importance to the cult or religious obligations, but that morality is perhaps superior to the cult.
What Yahweh requires of Israel is morality and not cultic service. The prophets raised morality to the level of an absolute religious value, and they did so because they saw morality as essentially divine. The essence of Yahweh is his moral nature. Moral attributes are the essence of Yahweh himself, one strives to be Yahweh-like by imitating his moral actions. The prophets insisted that morality was a decisive, if not the decisive factor in the nations’ history; Israel’s acceptance of Yahweh’s covenant placed certain religious and moral demands on her.
The two are interlinked. It is a sign of closeness to Yahweh that one is concerned for Israel’s poor and needy. The two are completely interlinked. Amos denounces the wealthy. He denounces the powerful and the way they treat the poor. The crimes that are denounced, are crimes that are prevalent in any society in any era. The crimes that are denounced as being utterly unacceptable to Yahweh, infuriating Yahweh to the point of destruction of the nation, are the kinds of crimes we see around us everyday, taking bribes, improper weights and balances, lack of charity to the poor, indifference to the plight of the debtor.
Injustice is sacrilege, the ideals of the covenant are of utmost importance. These prophets are called the standard bearers of the covenant, harking back to the covenant obligations. And without these, without the ideals of the covenant, the fulfillment of ritual obligations in and of itself is a farce. Morality is not just an obligation equal in importance to the cult or religious obligations, but that morality is perhaps superior to the cult.
What Yahweh requires of Israel is morality and not cultic service. The prophets raised morality to the level of an absolute religious value, and they did so because they saw morality as essentially divine. The essence of Yahweh is his moral nature. Moral attributes are the essence of Yahweh himself, one strives to be Yahweh-like by imitating his moral actions. The prophets insisted that morality was a decisive, if not the decisive factor in the nations’ history; Israel’s acceptance of Yahweh’s covenant placed certain religious and moral demands on her.
- Status
Similar threads
