People ARE Mixing the Gospels Together!

[newnature]

One sin is singled out as being historically decisive for the nation. Other sins are punished, absolutely. But only one is singled out as historically decisive for the nation, and that is the sin of idolatry, particularly the idolatry of the royal house. The tragic history of the two kingdoms as essentially a sequence of idolatrous aberrations, which were followed by punishment. And this cycle continued until finally there had to be complete destruction.

While it is certainly true that moral sins and other religious sins in Israel were punishable, it is really only the worship of other gods that brings about national collapse, national exile. Idolatry was what provoked Yahweh to drive the nation into exile. The prophets are claiming that the nation is doomed because of commonplace wrongs, because of bribe-taking, because of false scales and false weights that are being used in the marketplace.

For the prophets, the national catastrophes are just punishment for sin, but not just the sin of idolatry, for all sins no matter how petty, no matter how venial, because all sins violate the terms of the covenant code, which is given specially to Israel. And the terms of the covenant-being vassals to the sovereign Yahweh means treating co-vassals in a particular way, and it is breach of covenant not to do that.

The prophets were harking back to an older tradition, to ancient traditions about Israel and its covenant relationship, traditions according to which Israel’s redemption and election entailed moral obligations. The prophets warned that unless they changed, the people were going to suffer the punishment that was due them.

And, in fact, the people were very foolish to be eagerly awaiting or eagerly expecting what was popularly known as the Day of Yahweh. And so the prophets refer to the Day of Yahweh as if it were a popular conception out there in the general culture. It was a popular idea at the time that on some future occasion, Yahweh would dramatically intervene in world affairs and he would do so on Israel’s behalf.

Yahweh would lead Israel in victory over her enemies. They would be punished. Israel would be restored to her full and former glory. And that day, the Day of Yahweh, in the popular mind, was going to be a marvelous day, a day of victory for Israel, triumph for Israel and a day of vengeance on her enemies. The people are very confident that this is going to be a day of light, a day of blessing, a day of victory.

But the prophets, according to them, if there is no change, then this Day of Yahweh is not going to be some glorious thing that the people should be eagerly awaiting. It’s not going to be a day of triumph for Israel. It will not be a day of vengeance on her enemies. It’s going to be a dark day of destruction. It is going to be a day of doom, when Yahweh will finally call his own people to account. The prophets transformed the popular image of the Day of Yahweh from one of national triumph, to one of national judgment.

 

[newnature]

We are going to become enslaved to that which we choose to put ourselves in servitude. Choose to serve sin, and we can soon become addicted to the manner in which we have chosen to serve sin, is the principle. Paul is not talking about a believer losing salvation, he is talking about what those who pursue the satisfaction of the sinful lusts, we reap what we sow, not from God, but through that to which we are reaping. You are mixing the Gospels.





So you are not a sinner? Don't forget Apostle John in 1st John says "sin is transgression of God's law"..

Ezekiel, a prophet who was a priest, he was deported in the first deportation. There was deportation of exiles in 597. Ezekiel was in exile in Babylon during the final destruction and the fall of Jerusalem in 587. After 587, Ezekiel had a remarkable vision, among many. There’s a stormy wind and a huge cloud, and a flashing fire, Yahweh is riding on a kind of throne chariot.

Yahweh’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. There are four huge wheels under this throned-chariot, and they are said to gleam like beryl beneath a vast and awe-inspiring expanse or dome, which gleams like crystal. Above that is the semblance of a throne that is like sapphire, and on the throne was the semblance of a human form that’s gleaming like amber, and its fire encased in a frame, which is radiant all about.

This fire that’s encased, is in a cloud that contains or hides the fire that is Yahweh’s presence. So this kavod, describing the presence of Yahweh among his people, Yahweh is concealed and revealed only in his kavod. In a vision, an angel transports Ezekiel to Jerusalem and into the temple courts, and there he sees a very vivid description of the shocking abominations.

As he watches the slaughter and the destruction that’s going on there, Ezekiel sees the kavod, that is the presence of Yahweh, arise from the Temple and move to the east. The traditions of gods abandoning their cities in anger, leaving them to destruction by another god. The primary difference here is that Yahweh, rather than another god, is Yahweh himself also bringing the destruction.

Yahweh doesn’t retire to heaven, nor abandons his people. Yahweh doesn’t remain behind with those left in Judah, but Yahweh moves into exile; those left behind are guilty. Yahweh does not stay with them; Yahweh moves east with the righteous exiles. The kavod went eastward with the exiles, so the kavod will return with the reestablishment of Israel in her home. The kavod returning from the east and back to the temple, Yahweh is not liked to a particular place, but to a particular people; Yahweh was with his people, even when they are in exile.

 

[newnature]

There have been many attempts to equate this man of sorrows with all kinds of figures. Early on, Yeshua’s followers saw Yeshua as the suffering servant of Yahweh in Isaiah. New Testament writers specifically borrowed passages from Isaiah, particularly in chapter 53, when constructing their narratives of Yeshua, taking those verses and using them in describing his story.

So Yeshua is depicted as the innocent and righteous servant who suffered for the sins of others. In the teachings of Paul, however, you have a different use of these verses. Christians, generally, are identified as the servant who suffers with and for Yeshua. Isaiah chapter 53 wasn’t talking about a remote Nazarene teacher and charismatic healer who would live more than five centuries later.

The servant is Israel herself, the punishment that Israel suffered even if excessive-that punishment isn’t meaningless, it will lead to redemption. Israel will be healed by her wounds. Israel’s suffering is serving a purpose in the divine plan, it’s necessary. Israel needs purification and redemption and that will prepare her for a new role in world history.

 

[StanJ]

Well I'm out, as this member has no desire whatsoever to discuss. He ignores direct questions posed to him and continues to just push his own the agenda.

 

[newnature]

Well I'm out, as this member has no desire whatsoever to discuss. He ignores direct questions posed to him and continues to just push his own the agenda.

Just making my points. How can we have a discussion, I have to present my case. I read about what you believe.

 

[Angelina]

I just cannot follow your logic here new nature, I'm sorry but I think you have put together various bits of prophecies mixed with past and present eschatological events in combination with your personal beliefs and "catch phrases" then tried to pass it off as a kosher. I think you need to read the whole bible and not just the bits that fit into your own personal theology. If we cannot follow your line of thinking, it's not worth pursuing.

This thread is now closed.