People in Hell are happy

[Jack]

@Jack I don't think @ProverbsInPink was referring to you. I haven't reread the last posts today to make sure...but I think she was referring to another member. ProverbsInPink am I correct?

Like ProverbsInPink, I'm also sometimes shocked at what some members say on the forum. There seems to be a lot of strange teachings.

Thanks Debp! I hope you're right.

 

[other one]

Did you really just call the Bible Satanic?

He doesn't appear to be talking about the Bible that I read and listen to.

 

[lforrest]

I don't know how Islam was founded. It could be an evil spirit, but it's a hypothesis. Maybe it's simply human invention.

Yes, I do agree that Islamic Paradise is materialistic pleasure ("houris" = heavenly prostitutes), even if it depends on the interpretation.

The Lord Jesus-Christ did show Himself to the world, but it was in a specific place in a specific time. Most of people in Humanity never saw Him.

Jesus-Christ can appear to Muslims through mystical ways, but sometimes He does not want to reveal Himself.

When I came to believe my eyes were opened to several times God intervened mystically in the past and I didn't recognize it. I think it is the same for everyone, we do not see how much God does for us.

So perhaps it isn't that God doesn't reveal himself to all Muslims, but only those who respond with belief will come to recognize God's working.

The election process is mysterious, not everyone will enter the Kingdom. I'm convinced that applies to Christians as well. We are warned of those who would do wonders in his name, but Jesus says to them "I never knew you, depart from me." And in full transparency I believe Islam to be a snare, intended to keep people from a saving faith in Jesus as the Son of God.

 

[ArkangeMikail]

When I came to believe my eyes were opened to several times God intervened mystically in the past and I didn't recognize it. I think it is the same for everyone, we do not see how much God does for us.

So perhaps it isn't that God doesn't reveal himself to all Muslims, but only those who respond with belief will come to recognize God's working.

The election process is mysterious, not everyone will enter the Kingdom. I'm convinced that applies to Christians as well. We are warned of those who would do wonders in his name, but Jesus says to them "I never knew you, depart from me." And in full transparency I believe Islam to be a snare, intended to keep people from a saving faith in Jesus as the Son of God.

So God predestined people to hell or heavens?

Islam is a snare, yet they still worship God.

 

[lforrest]

So God predestined people to hell or heavens?

Islam is a snare, yet they still worship God.

I consider God's predestination as in Ephesians 1:5 as being more like foreknowledge. God is able to plan around our decisions.

1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." This is the snare, that people would deny Jesus is the Son of God. In denying him they reject the one way to be saved.

 

[ArkangeMikail]

I consider God's predestination as in Ephesians 1:5 as being more like foreknowledge. God is able to plan around our decisions.

1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." This is the snare, that people would deny Jesus is the Son of God. In denying him they reject the one way to be saved.

Who can deny without even knowing? Most people don't even know Jesus-Christ, or have never seen evidence of His existence.

Does God trap people by punishing them for their ignorance?

 

[lforrest]

Who can deny without even knowing? Most people don't even know Jesus-Christ, or have never seen evidence of His existence.

Does God trap people by punishing them for their ignorance?

If someone truly is so isolated as to not be exposed to the gospel their whole lives let us pray God send an angel to minister to them, or that a dream would lead them to search for answers.

I doubt many these days have ignorance of the message as an excuse. More likely the social cost is too high to even think of considering Christianity.

 

[ArkangeMikail]

If someone truly is so isolated as to not be exposed to the gospel their whole lives let us pray God send an angel to minister to them, or that a dream would lead them to search for answers.

I doubt many these days have ignorance of the message as an excuse. More likely the social cost is too high to even think of considering Christianity.

There are people who are not exposed to the gospel in some places (in saudi arabia, north korea,...) and in some times (entire civilizations : islamic, chinese, japan, isolated tribes, etc.). No angel or dream come to them.

Even if the gospel reaches some people (through internet or else), it doesn't mean anything special to them. For them, the gospel is just words, and they are too busy with practical things or they have already a religion.

 

[St. SteVen]

@ArkangeMikail Why don't you read the words of Jesus Christ about hell and simply believe what He says?

God is holy and cannot stand sin to be in His presence. That is why when we are forgiven through Christ, our sins are washed away. And we are given the Imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ....so God doesn't see our sins anymore. We are seen as righteous (our legal standing before God). Because Jesus Christ took our sins and gave us His righteousness.

There are three biblical views of the final judgement that are all contradictory.
You can't really choose one and claim the others are false.

 

[St. SteVen]

I do believe what Jesus Christ says, but the problem is the strict application of his teachings lead to injustice, such as eternal hell being unfair for sinful people who would like to repent, the idea of God torturing people, or that non-Christians go to hell for not knowing the truth

I agree.
The Bible says that Jesus is the savior of the world.
And that all will be saved.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Matthew 18:11 NKJV
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Luke 19:10 NIV
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

 

[Jack]

I agree.
The Bible says that Jesus is the savior of the world.
And that all will be saved.

Satan LOVES that doctrine!

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...!

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Matthew 18:11 NKJV
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Luke 19:10 NIV
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Quoting STV: "no wonder I don't trust the Bible".

Do you go to the same church of MASS confusion as One 2 question?

 

[Debp]

I agree.
The Bible says that Jesus is the savior of the world.
And that all will be saved.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Matthew 18:11 NKJV
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Luke 19:10 NIV
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Are you an Universalist?

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you an Universalist?

Appears so. Is that a bad thing?
I prefer Ultimate Redemptionist. (UR)
I don't believe that everyone is automatically saved no matter what.
There will be consequences.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

 

[Jack]

Are you an Universalist?

I don't think STV knows what he is. He said he doesn't trust the Bible and doesn't know why he's in a Christian forum.

 

[Debp]

I don't think STV knows what he is. He said he doesn't trust the Bible and doesn't know why he's in a Christian forum.

Maybe the Holy Spirit led @St. SteVen here.

I simply believe the Word of God. There might be some things I don't understand but I don't try to figure everything out. God knows what He is doing. I'm not God.

 

[Jack]

Maybe the Holy Spirit led @St. SteVen here.

Maybe Christians will pull STV out of the fire!

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

I simply believe the Word of God. There might be some things I don't understand but I don't try to figure everything out. God knows what He is doing. I'm not God.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't think STV knows what he is. He said he doesn't trust the Bible and doesn't know why he's in a Christian forum.

Had you considered that accusing is the signature of the evil one, Jack?
....and are you familiar with Zechariah 3?

 

[Jack]

Had you considered that accusing is the signature of the evil one, Jack?

So you believe in the evil one. So you must believe in Hell then!

....and are you familiar with Zechariah 3?

Why do you care? You admitted that you reject the Bible.

 

[quietthinker]

So you believe in the evil one. So you must believe in Hell then!

Why do you care? You admitted that you reject the Bible.

Did you look up Zechariah 3?

 

[Jack]

Did you look up Zechariah 3?

Don't you know how to quote it? I quote Bible all the time. It's easy if you know what the Bible says.