Perfection

[aspen]

can you think of an example?

Indeed. Humans loving each other imperfectly - sin.

 

[Helen]

sorry, "the definition is Flawless,"
or "the definition is 'Flawless'?" ty

Perfection.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Perfection, eh?
I would never use that word personally, just as I don' Enlightenment....
But I'll bite...to me off the top...When I see the perfection all around me and in me.
So far, I'm way closer than I could have ever imagined 20 years ago.

 

[aspen]

Perfection, eh?
I would never use that word personally, just as I don' Enlightenment....
But I'll bite...to me off the top...When I see the perfection all around me and in me.
So far, I'm way closer than I could have ever imagined 20 years ago.

Yes. Humans seem to be overconfident in our view of our strengthens, a lot. Of course, when we are confronted with this fact, we tend to flip it around and become overconfident in our assessment of our weaknesses......the Medieval Monk route.

I have discovered that we generally remain ignorant of our true self in this existence - only receiving distorted glimpses. As soon as we retire from assessing everything in creation and focus on loving, as we were created to do, we are practicing our sanctification.....

 

[Helen]

Perfection, eh?
I would never use that word personally, just as I don' Enlightenment....
But I'll bite...to me off the top...When I see the perfection all around me and in me.
So far, I'm way closer than I could have ever imagined 20 years ago.

Closer as in understanding...
Closer in seeing that He who is Perfection lives within us.

I always find that we must walk that fine balance between where our position is in Christ is when He says "Abide in ME"... and our daily 'walking position' as we get our feet dirty with the dust that we still are when not covered by His mantle of light.

So I see that some say "we" (ourselves) are working our way to perfection... ..and the rest of us say we are perfect already...in The Lord.
Both are right, depending what 'position' you are standing in.

...them's my thoughts....

 

[bbyrd009]

which will culminate in perfection after we are raised to eternal life. Eternal life is existence without change, which is perfection.

 

[bbyrd009]

the skateboard one died

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed. Humans loving each other imperfectly - sin.

and no change is going on in that area?

try again if you like

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Closer as in understanding...
Closer in seeing that He who is Perfection lives within us.

Yes.
Seeing perfection in your dented car in a parking lot, your lost or stolen property,
your rejection from a new job...waking in a weird mood, feeling 'off'.
This perceiving God in every single thing that occurs in our body, mind, emotions...
our immediate suroundings..when we miss hitting the parked car! Whew...
And when we nick the parked car.

To see that every single thing is for one thing...to bring us closer to realization...to Reality...which can be described in many ways..that all around us is love..
That all around us is perfect on levels we can't even imagine usually ..
that God is
protecting us...that our Home is where our focus is...that we have been gifted with extrardinary powers as Jesus tried to show us...the list goes on!
That love begets love...that we have only the
limitations we give ourselves...that we are heirs of things we have not opened yet..
Did I leave 100 things out? Yup.
Will someone fault me for that?
Possibly, but that kind of person is on Ignore...perfect.

 

[Blessed15]

Well we can choose 'our' definition of perfect...God has set it!
....the definition is Flawless,
I believe you will find the root meaning in the bible word is Complete.

Col 2:10-15 is the only completeness , flawlessness and perfection man can have...
10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

That is my confidence and faith. Our glorious hope of perfection.
Thank You Jesus !!

Col 2:20 is also apt I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[DPMartin]

Are humans transitioning to a state of prefection?

What is human perfection?

When is it obtained? Happen?

the fulfillment of human nature is fulfilled hence perfect in its own right as human nature. the fulfillment of God's likeness and image in man or the Son of man is fulfilled in Christ Jesus hence perfect in His own righteousness of God's nature. human nature can not be, or be like God's nature though it has been achieved to make others believe human nature can be so. this is where workers of religions that are unscrupulous manipulate the members in their failure to achieve God's nature or likeness with out having God's likeness or image or nature within them.

hence Jesus teaching to disregard this life, for the Life He gives. the fulfillment of human nature is to go by their own judgement of what is good and evil and then die. the fulfillment of God's nature in the sons of men is to submit to and believe and trust God's Judgement of what is good and evil and receive everlasting Life in Christ.

 

[amadeus]

@"ByGrace" @bbyrd009

"BYGrace" said: The flesh/human will never become perfected.

bbyrd009 said: at least until we fix our def of perfect i guess, ya

What is the acceptable definition of "perfect"? Would it not be whatever God says that it is? What was that was written immediately before Matthew 5:48? Did Jesus not therein describe what was expected of a person in order to be perfect in the eyes of God?

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:43-48

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

So then is "perfect" for God not those things above and beyond above what the publicans and the others do by nature?

Remember the anger of Nebuchadnezzar at his magicians, astrologers and Chaldeans when they said:

"And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.
For this cause the king was angry and very furious, and commanded to destroy all the wise men of Babylon." Dan 2:11-12

But there was something above the wisdom of men... in a man, the man, Daniel!

"Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;" Dan 2:27-28

And who was this Daniel? Was he not in his response to the king exactly what God was? Perfect! How did it do it? He got together with his three young Hebrew friends and they asked of God and the perfect answer was given.

Here so many of us who have supposedly received more than Daniel bat the ball back and forth seemingly in doubt as to whether God expects us to be or will help us to be perfect as He is perfect.

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matt 11:11

Are any of us even just barely inside the kingdom of heaven? If so then are we not greater than John the Baptist who was greater the all who came before him... including Daniel, or... all of these in the OT?

"For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it." Prov 2:21

"Then the people rejoiced, for that they offered willingly, because with perfect heart they offered willingly to the LORD: and David the king also rejoiced with great joy." I Chron 29:9

"For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars." II Chron 16:9

"I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart." Psalm 101:2

And what of the NT? Jesus told us about the power of God:

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

So does this mean we cannot do it? Who is it that we have within us?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

Are we living and hoping below our potential? Jesus again said,

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Should we then deny the possibility of being perfect, walking rather in a negative faith?

"Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

"Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? ... " Matt 17:17

 

[Helen]

What a lovely post Amadeus...I enjoyed all your thoughts re Daniel...very refreshing. I have not looked at the book for some time.

"For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him.

I believe God looks at us and sees either a straight heart or a crooked heart. In my book, straight means a seeking heart...not perfect as totally faultless but perfect in desire and intent.
12 " For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."
Not the best of verses to bring my point...and taken out of context...but the gist is there.

Great post...thank you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Should we then deny the possibility of being perfect, walking rather in a negative faith?

nice, there are also counterfeits to admitting the possibility, that also diminish faith. And i bet a poll would break roughly 50/50 on deniers/admitters, too, many maintain that no one can ever be perfect i guess. i think we mentally add "forever" into that, to use as a standard, when Understand I AM you can be perfect right now; then is an illusion, as Scott will tell us i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

What a lovely post Amadeus...I enjoyed all your thoughts re Daniel...very refreshing. I have not looked at the book for some time.


I believe God looks at us and sees either a straight heart or a crooked heart. In my book, straight means a seeking heart...not perfect as totally faultless but perfect in desire and intent.
12 " For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."
Not the best of verses to bring my point...and taken out of context...but the gist is there.

Great post...thank you.

that's a great v for that imo, illuminates the point IRL, we are all for a guy with the right attitude, regardless of what he does or doesn't own, so to speak

 

[bbyrd009]

you can be perfect right now

"; then is an illusion, as Scott will tell us i guess"

was edited into that post @amadeus, doubt you would object but since you liked it...