Perpetual virginity of Mary mother of God!

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theefaith

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Biblical Mary:

Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 and cos she consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mother of the creator is mother of all creation!

Mother of the Redeemer is the mother of all the redeemed!

Mother of our Savior is the mother of all those who obtain salvation!
 

Bruce Atkinson

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Regarding the "until "clause.
1. It actually supports my claim that Mary had taken a vow of perpetual virginity. In ancient Judaism a couple would consummate the marriage on their wedding night (nisuin). It was the climax of the wedding celebration taking place in the "bridal chamber" (see MT 25:1-13). So Matthew is making the point that they did not consummate the marriage. This supports the idea that Mary had taken a vow of perpetual virginity.

2. Mt 1:25 cannot be used to prove that Mary had a sexual relationship with Joseph. To infer it is to claim what has yet to be proved.
The word until (or till) denotes a point in time up to which some action occurred. Neither it, nor the Greek heos from which is translated, mean that the action changed, only that there was something significant about that point in time. That point in time may be significant for reason other than a change in the action. What happened after that may be explicitly stated or may be inferred from the context, or may just be left unknown. To claim it always means the action changes is not valid and leads to absurdities.

How ANYONE could possibly claim that the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25:1-13 has any relationship whatsoever with Mary is beyond comprehension!
I can only conclude this is some kind of fiction from the Catholic Church or some fantasy of yours.

Matthew 1:25 but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus. (NRSV)

I'll confess to being in the dark about how anyone can 'extrapolate' the word 'until' to add 'and will never will happen any time thereafter'. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US. Throughout the Bible as well as in all uses of the word 'until' in my all my years, 'until' means that it will happen sometime in the future and nothing beyond that. 'Until' is a time-word. Consider telling someone to wait until 6PM to call you. They oblige and may call at 6:00 sharp, or maybe 5 after, or maybe 6:30 or so. But in no way does it convey the thought they they will keep calling you after 6PM 7 days per week 365 days per year! 'Until' only applied to the single occurrence of when to call as well as Mary and Joseph having marital relations.
 

theefaith

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Yeah it does! It says Joseph di dnot have sex with Mary , until after jesus was born! Unless of course you need a refresher course in basic reading skills.

that means she did not have sex with Joseph before he was born, it says nothing about what happened after that


Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
 

Bruce Atkinson

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why is it blasphemous?
Why does it need be in scripture?
What is the source of truth and rule of faith and the pillar and ground of truth

Please stay within the title of this thread rather than distracting its readers with other issues that you've already asked about in other threads.
 

theefaith

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Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture. In Luke 1:34, when Mary asks the angel how she will conceive a child, the angel responds: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”

This is nuptial language hearkening back to Ruth 3:8, where Ruth said to Boaz “spread your skirt over me” when she revealed to him his duty to marry her according to the law of Deuteronomy 25. When Mary became pregnant, Joseph would have been required to divorce her because she would then belong to another (see Dt 24:1-4; Jer 3:1). But when Joseph found out that “the other” was the Holy Spirit, the idea of his having conjugal relations with Mary was not a consideration.
 

theefaith

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Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
 

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Mary is depicted as the spouse of the Holy Spirit in Scripture.

so now you're calling your goddess a harlot?
because she is Joseph's wife.

God commanded Joseph to take her to wife -- did God command Joseph to be an adulterer?
 

Friends of Jesus

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It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Jesus’ mother Mary remained a virgin for her entire life. Is this concept biblical? First it is important to understand why the Roman Catholic Church believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Roman Catholic Church views Mary as "the Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven." Catholics believe Mary to have an exalted place in Heaven, with the closest access to Jesus and God the Father. Such a concept is nowhere taught in Scripture. Further, even if Mary did occupy such an exalted position, her having sexual intercourse would not have prevented her from gaining such a position. Sex in marriage is not sinful. Mary would have in no way defiled herself by having sexual relations with Joseph her husband. The entire concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary is based on an unbiblical teaching, Mary as Queen of Heaven, and on an unbiblical understanding of sex.

So, what does the Bible say about the perpetual virginity of Mary? Using the New American Bible, which is a Catholic translation, we can see that the perpetual virginity of Mary is not taught in the Bible. Matthew 1:25 NAB tells us, "He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus." He, Joseph, did not have sexual relations with her, Mary, UNTIL after she bore a son, Jesus." The meaning of this Scripture is abundantly clear. Joseph and Mary did not have sexual relations until after Jesus was born. Matthew 13:55-56 NAB declares, "Is He not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Are not His sisters all with us?" Catholics claim, correctly, that the Greek terms for "brothers" and "sisters" in these verses could also refer to male and female relatives, not necessarily literal brothers and sisters. However, the intended meaning is clear, they thought Jesus to be Joseph’s son, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas, and the brother of the unnamed and unnumbered sisters. Father, mother, brother, sister. It is straining the meaning of the text to interpret “brothers” and “sisters” as "cousins" or "relatives" with the mentioning of Jesus’ mother and father.

Matthew 12:46 NAB tells us, "While He was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and His brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with Him." See also Mark 3:31-34; Luke 8:19-21; John 2:12; and Acts 1:14. All mention Jesus’ mother with His brothers. If they were His cousins, or the sons of Joseph from a previous marriage, why were they mentioned with Mary so often? The idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary cannot be drawn from Scripture. It must be forced on Scripture, in contradiction to what the Scriptures clearly state.
 
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theefaith

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Mary & Eve!

Eve was of the First creation: carnal
Mary of the New creation: spiritual

Eve the cos of Sin and curse disobeyed God! Gen 3:12
Mary cos of salvation, Lk 1:30 & consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 obeyed God & found our salvation Lk 1:30

Eve mourned:
Mary rejoiced: Lk 1:46

Eve gave birth to the all sinners: mother of all the living. Gen 3:20
Mary to the savior of all men: mother of all living in Christ. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:43

Eve brought punishment: gen 3:16
Mary salvation: Lk 1:30 & 38 Lk 2:30

Eve source of sin: gen 3:16
Mary source of grace: Lk 1:30 & 38

Eve brought death: gen 3:19
Mary life: Jn 1:16-17 & Jn 10:10

Eve only wounds & suffering: gen 3:19
Mary healing:

Eve infidelity: gen 3:6
Mary faithfulness: Lk 1:45

Eve offended the Lord: gen 3:6-7
Mary’s soul (being) doth magnify the Lord: Lk 1:46

Eve cursed: gen 3:17-19
Mary blessed: Lk 1:28

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women!
Lk 1:28
 

Bruce Atkinson

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Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen!
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And Jesus is the king of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints, so Mary is queen of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints!

Queen of Heaven????

Here's what Gods' Word says about 'queen of heaven' -

Jeremiah 7:17-20 (KJV)
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 44:15-22 (KJV)
15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.

Do YOU or the Catholic Church really believe Mary is the queen of heaven? God clearly spelled out what HE thinks about people who worship the queen of heaven and spoke through Jeremiah 1000s of years ago! It is as applicable today as it was back then! There's no way that the continual droning of 'hail Mary's, building shrines to her in one's yard, seeing 'visions' of her in physical things such as cup of hot chocolate, etc is not WORSHIPPING HER!!!

It's clear the Catholic Church and all its members spend far more time worshipping and glorifying Mary than they do Jesus Christ! The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to brainwash its members with all kinds of fabrications regarding Mary that Gods' Word does NOT state!
 
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Friends of Jesus

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Queen of Heaven????

Here's what Gods' Word says about 'queen of heaven' -

Jeremiah 7:17-20 (KJV)
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 44:15-22 (KJV)
15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.

Do YOU or the Catholic Church really believe Mary is the queen of heaven? God clearly spelled out what HE thinks about people who worship the queen of heaven and spoke through Jeremiah 1000s of years ago! It is as applicable today as it was back then! There's no way that the continual droning of 'hail Mary's, building shrines to her in one's yard, seeing 'visions' of her in physical things such as cup of hot chocolate, etc is not WORSHIPPING HER!!!

It's clear the Catholic Church and all its members spend far more time worshipping and glorifying Mary than they do Jesus Christ! The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to brainwash its members with all kinds of fabrications regarding Mary that Gods' Word does NOT state!




Amen. Can I just add too -
There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same: “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46–55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration; on the contrary, she was relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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you forgot Mary the mother of God Lk 1:43

God doesn't HAVE a "Mother". the MAN JESUS had a Mother (by God's design). Just another Catholic Fantasy about their phony "Blessed Virgin".

Mary (whether Rome likes it or not) was a perfectly NORMAL HUMAN Woman who was called by God to provide a difficult ministry, in the Bearing, birthing, and raising the human manifestation of the WORD who was with God, and who WAS God. It's easy to see how Catholic "Tradition" (with their propensity for incorporating pagan fantasies) transforms her into "the queen of heaven". But she's still a normal Jewish gal, who really didn't have a CLUE what all was going on until later. The Bible doesn't SAY she became a Christian, but it's very likely she did, being given into John's care at Calvary. I'd assume that some of Jesus' half Siblings became Christians also, although they're really not mentioned in any detail.
 
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theefaith

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Please stay within the title of this thread rather than distracting its readers with other issues that you've already asked about in other threads.

Its my party!

it’s my thread and I’ll ask as I please
You can’t answer I know
 

theefaith

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in human terms the wife of the king is the queen.

but The King of Israel is the LORD, Jesus the Christ, The Lamb

in the line of david it’s the mother of the king
Bathsheba is queen Mary is queen
Only a queen and mother can give birth to a king
 

theefaith

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so now you're calling your goddess a harlot?
because she is Joseph's wife.

God commanded Joseph to take her to wife -- did God command Joseph to be an adulterer?

only betrothed not a wife
 

theefaith

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Queen of Heaven????

Here's what Gods' Word says about 'queen of heaven' -

Jeremiah 7:17-20 (KJV)
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 44:15-22 (KJV)
15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.

Do YOU or the Catholic Church really believe Mary is the queen of heaven? God clearly spelled out what HE thinks about people who worship the queen of heaven and spoke through Jeremiah 1000s of years ago! It is as applicable today as it was back then! There's no way that the continual droning of 'hail Mary's, building shrines to her in one's yard, seeing 'visions' of her in physical things such as cup of hot chocolate, etc is not WORSHIPPING HER!!!

It's clear the Catholic Church and all its members spend far more time worshipping and glorifying Mary than they do Jesus Christ! The Catholic Church has gone to great lengths to brainwash its members with all kinds of fabrications regarding Mary that Gods' Word does NOT state!

cannot be applied to mary she was not born yet
And we don’t worship her
Devotion reverence honor are not adoration and worship
 

theefaith

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Amen. Can I just add too -
There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Instead, the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven stems from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshiped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same: “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46–55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” or deserving of veneration; on the contrary, she was relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself.

Really?
 
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