PETER AND PAUL AND THE NAME

[Doug]

The salvation of the whole world was spoken of by the prophets, recognized by John the Baptist (above), brought about by Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the Holy One of God...

Redeemed Israel under the new covenant in the earthly kingdom was to be a light and blessing to the Gentile nations.

 

[Doug]

And recognized by the Church here:

Acts 11:18

When they heard this, they stopped objecting and glorified God, saying, "God has then granted life-giving repentance to the Gentiles too."

These Gentiles believed the gospel of the kingdom and becoming part of the remnant of Israel would enter the kingdom on earth.

 

[justbyfaith]

As Paul writes – TRUE circumcision is not a removal of the flesh – but a changed heart and a new spirit (Romans 2:29, Col. 2:12-17).

So, apply that to Romans 4:11 and see where it gets you.

 

[justbyfaith]

"A distinction can be made."

So you wish to promote TWO GOSPELS? That contradicts Scripture.

The same Gospel can be presented differently by two different people, but it always remains the same. There is only ONE Gospel.

So, Galatians 2:7 contradicts the rest of scripture?

I fear that you have the scripture contradicting itself.

I have explained how the two gospels come together to form one gospel; but apparently you did not want to listen.

I would suggest going back and reading my posts again on the subject.

Here:

PETER AND PAUL AND THE NAME

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, apply that to Romans 4:11 and see where it gets you.

That's why I always warn yo that your cherry-picking of Scripture only gets you into trouble.
Your confusion lies in the fact that you refuse to take these verses in context with the rest of Scripture.
Rom. 4:11 is reconciled with the following, as I have already pointed out:
Rom. 2:28-29
A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Col. 2:12-25
". . . having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (Gentiles), God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

In Rom. 4:11 - Paul is speaking ABOUT the Jews TO the Gentiles. This is why he differentiates the circumcision of the flesh and the circumcision of the heart by the Spirit.
Circumcision of the flesh is a SIGN that you are inwardly circumcised.

 

[justbyfaith]

Circumcision of the flesh has no bearing on a man's salvation (Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:15, 1 Corinthians 7:19). In fact, it can be detrimental to one's salvation if one is putting their trust in it (Galatians 5:1-4, Philippians 3:1-9).

What you mean by cherry-picking, is that you don't like it when people quote specific verses to you in order to prove their point.

I can say that you cherry-picked the verses that you quoted in the post above. Where does it end?

No one would ever be able to quote verses to prove their point. A person would just have to say, "I am right, here. Read your Bible; for the whole of the Bible substantiates what I am saying." and never, ever quote a scripture.

But when we quote specific verses, we give the reference so that you can look them up in their context.

It is also a solid rule of hermeneutics that the plain meaning of any singular verse will never be nullified by its surrounding context. Because the scripture does not contradict itself.

Thus, cherry-picking, as you call it, is not a thing to be disparaged; but it is a thing to be encouraged.

Furthermore, in Matthew 2:15, Matthew, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, cherry-picked out of Hosea 11:1 and even took it out of its original context and, where in the original context, the son being spoken of is Israel, when Matthew quotes it, it is referring to Jesus as the Son of God (because that is a major doctrine of the New Testament, cf. 1 John 4:15, 1 John 5:5). The Holy Spirit is able to even quote verses outside of their original context to make a point.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Rom. 4:11 - Paul is speaking ABOUT the Jews TO the Gentiles. This is why he differentiates the circumcision of the flesh and the circumcision of the heart by the Spirit.
Circumcision of the flesh is a SIGN that you are inwardly circumcised.

In Romans 4:11, is Paul speaking of spiritual circumcision (of the heart) or physical (of the male organ)?

 

[justbyfaith]

You're probably going to have to search for the answer in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Truther]

Peter and Paul preached different messages on the name of Jesus:

Peter and the twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).

Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).

They preached the way to get remission of sins(the cross) was to obey Acts 2:38.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In Romans 4:11, is Paul speaking of spiritual circumcision (of the heart) or physical (of the male organ)
You're probably going to have to search for the answer in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

He is talking about Abraham’s physical circumcision being the seal of his justification – not the “cause” of it. It's how they entered the Covenent - just as Baptism enters us unto the New Covenant.

YOUR problem is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them as if they are standalone verses and form doctrines around those isolated verses. That’s why I told you that you need to take Paul’s words here in CONTEXT with corresponding verses like Rom. 2:28-29 and Col. 2:12-25.

For crying out loud – the SAME letter that contains Rom. 4:11 also gives us Rom. 2:28-29.

CONTEXT . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

He is talking about Abraham’s physical circumcision being the seal of his justification – not the “cause” of it. It's how they entered the Covenent - just as Baptism enters us unto the New Covenant.

YOUR problem is that you cherry-pick verses of Scripture, absolutize them as if they are standalone verses and form doctrines around those isolated verses. That’s why I told you that you need to take Paul’s words here in CONTEXT with corresponding verses like Rom. 2:28-29 and Col. 2:12-25.

For crying out loud – the SAME letter that contains Rom. 4:11 also gives us Rom. 2:28-29.

CONTEXT . . .

Applying Romans 2:28-29 to Romans 4:11 would make the circumcision spoken of be referring to spiritual circumcision.

It is always everyone else who has a problem. You cannot see your hand in front of your face.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Applying Romans 2:28-29 to Romans 4:11 would make the circumcision spoken of be referring to spiritual circumcision.

It is always everyone else who has a problem. You cannot see your hand in front of your face.

WRONG.
You’re trying to divorce Rom 4:11 from the rest of the Letter to the Romans.

This is a classic example of why Scriptural cherry-picking is so dangerous - and stupid. In chapter 2, Paul explains WHAT true circumcision is – and in Rom. 4:11, he explains that Abraham’s physical circumcision took place after his spiritual circumcision.

To continue to deny this only shows your complete lack of understanding of Scripture.

 

[Philip James]

Redeemed Israel under the new covenant in the earthly kingdom was to be a light and blessing to the Gentile nations.

'My kingdom is not of this world'

Yes indeed, she has indeed been a blessing to the nations as she has brought the light of Christ to all the nations of the world as she was commanded to do..

These Gentiles believed the gospel of the kingdom and becoming part of the remnant of Israel would enter the kingdom on earth.

And so they have, and now there is
a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation, race, people, and tongue. (Rev 7:9)

Who with one heart, and one mind, and one voice offer the pure sacrifice fortold in Malachi 1:11

The nations have been grafted in to the cultivated olive (rom 11:17)

No longer is there separation between gentile and Jew, rich and poor, black and white...
All are made one in Christ at the wedding feast...

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf

All are welcome to come to the Feast!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.
You’re trying to divorce Rom 4:11 from the rest of the Letter to the Romans.

This is a classic example of why Scriptural cherry-picking is so dangerous - and stupid. In chapter 2, Paul explains WHAT true circumcision is – and in Rom. 4:11, he explains that Abraham’s physical circumcision took place after his spiritual circumcision.

To continue to deny this only shows your complete lack of understanding of Scripture.

Blah blah blah...

There is no changing you. I'm going to do my best to keep you on Ignore.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Blah blah blah...

There is no changing you. I'm going to do my best to keep you on Ignore.

Yes, you've said that before.
That doesn't mean that I'm going to stop exposing your falsehoods . . .

 

[Taken]

Peter and Paul preached different messages on the name of Jesus:

Peter and the twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).

Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).

Simon Peter (a Jew who accepted Jesus) was sent out to Preach to Jews their Christ Messiah had come.

Paul (a Jew and Roman citizen who Rejected Jesus) was sent out to Preach primarily to Gentiles...about the God of the Jews, His Christ Messiah, that He had come and has an OFFERING for All men...not only Jews.

Their Backgrounds WERE different.
Who they preached TO was different.
Their Style of Preaching WAS different.
Paul Often used his own self as an unbelieving Example, To Teach unbelievers.

What each was sent to do in the manner that Glorified God, I am confidant it was according to Gods Will.

Glory to God,
Taken