Where is that is the scripture? To be acceptable without faith? Your just parroting Epi's platitudes as if you were of the same experience. Show me how you arrived at this conclusion.
Phariseeism in the Modern Church
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Platitudes or Beatitudes? Peter says that those who work righteousness are acceptable with God. Does Peter's experience and statement hold any value to you?
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
I’m definitely not of the same experience. I have entered into His rest but that’s all.
He has taught with many scriptures and I have seen that God is far more merciful than I even dreamed of. Far more merciful than humans. But to grab for themselves a high and honorable seat, men won’t accept that. (As if anyone gets to decide where they will sit!)
I am of the opinion it takes faith to fear God and work righteousness. Can one fear God without faith?
The context is speaking of judgement against the hard hearted and reward of those who do right. I have no problem with that. I just think it requires faith to do right
This is speaking to a church full of believers. "Any man" is a classic synecdoche
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
Do you feel it’s taking the lowest seat to say God cant show mercy to someone who doesn’t think or believe the things you do even if they treat others as well as they treat themselves and are meek? Because it seems to me that is taking a higher seat for yourself and placing them in a lower seat than yourself. To me it looks the opposite of meekness WHILE condemning the meek.
You are confused about my position. I am saying that people who do such things have some element of faith, not that they will be condemned regardless. However, you can exalt yourself over me if it makes you feel better.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
Can you share the verses that led you to that opinion? I ask because I have met men who do right to others but have never read a Bible. In fact, one of them is doing work in my home right now. He even does right to others to his own harm it seems. He seems to err in favor of others rather than in his own favor. He stands out because it’s not the norm.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
You think I am exalting myself over you? That would require some explanation for me to grasp. Why would you see me saying how something looks to me as exalting myself over you…?
I believe one has to please God in order to be acceptable.
Heb 11-Without Faith it is impossible to please God. Many have been redeemed who have never read a bible. Their faith came from the Word of God manifested in the flesh. Perhaps your friend is closer to the kingdom that you think. You could be the one to lead him in.
We cannot judge the final outcome for anyone, but if a person who does many good works consciously rejects faith in Jesus' atonement for sin, I do not see how such a person could enter God's kingdom.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
Without faith it is impossible to please Him and yet if we had the tiniest speck or scintilla of faith we would move mountains. Do you move mountains? And if not, do you think you are pleasing to God?
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
You are correct that it takes faith to enter the kingdom of God. The question is: does God have mercy on men who treat others as well as they treat themselves? Does He make a place for those who who act righteously to others in that way? Does He accept righteous behavior?
Who are the people who live among the nations? Where do they come from? Who ARE they? They’ve obviously inherited the earth, haven’t they? They are living on it in the future, right?
I think that can apply to people who do not consciously reject Jesus. I know atheists who are morally good, and help their neighbours, but they call Jesus a myth and say the atonement is silly nonsense. I would say they have crossed the line if they do not repent.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
So morally good people, those who obey the laws concerning man’s behavior toward man, are those who need to repent?
Who are those who don’t need a physician? Who ARE they that Jesus said don’t need a physician?
I have seen the Lord move many mountains in my life. He makes the decision as to whether He is pleased or not. My life hangs by a thread and as I hang on by my fingernails I know it is His power that is preserving me. I praise Him for that.
....Mark 9:40 and Luke 9:50 has Jesus saying that those not against us are for us.
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
A very apt verse at this moment! You do that so much!
God's justifies the ungodly not because of their lack of beliefs but because of what they DO. Another aspect of acceptance with God is to be God-fearing. So they might not see Jesus as a saviour yet, and might not understand His ministry. But God is merciful toward the righteous.
We are not trying to judge from ourselves what God approves of. We are seeing God's mercy and leaving it to Him to decide on who He will have mercy.
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