Please HELP Dan. 2:45

[Poppin]

Poppin, I am not interested in what you believe rather what the Word teaches.

How do I know you are not like Israel of old? God knows!

Probation:

Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, 6:13 and do not present your members to sin as instruments10 to be used for unrighteousness,11 but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments12 to be used for righteousness.

Your confidence is presumptuous and dangerous!...it does not account for your sinfulness before God, or his testing of your faith - if you fail to see your probation then you fail in your faithfulness for how can He try you if you have life regardless of your faith?

Its noted you did not comment on point 2 being that "life" is by promise and how loosing that life can occur as it did for Israel in the wilderness.

Purity

I am inlcuded in the Israel of God.
all true christins are.

 

[Purity]

Poppin, on 21 Feb 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:




Hi Purity,

It seems that you agree in more than a Four World Empire scenaro, -- neither of you can/will provide an explanation for GOD's iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE world empires.




It would seem better to be in agreement with GOD, would it not?


With Best Regards,
DD

Only four beasts in Dan 7 ;)

I am inlcuded in the Israel of God.
all true christins are.

I am glad to hear this Poppin but you may be in for an unpleasant surprise if you reject your probation.

Probation has not ceased in the economy of Redemption - though your assumption may say otherwise. The Scripture which says, Ye are not under the law but under grace, does not mean that we are exempted from test and predestinated to life. Like the Old Covenant the New Covenant still requires a period of probation one which ends in death or the Lords return.

Purity

 

[DaDad]

Only four beasts in Dan 7 ;)

Hi Purity,

Do you know why a chicken coop has two doors? Because if it had four doors it'd be called a chicken sedan. ;)


The fact is Daniel 2 dictates FIVE World empires, of which the FIFTH is "divided" -- presumably between two or MORE. So could it be that the FIFTH "divided" is detailed in Chapter 7 per the FOUR?

And if we look at today's "divided" empires, we should find THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

• The first is the Lion (U.K.) / Eagle (U.S.);
• The second is the Bear (Russia) with the three ribs representing the three (and yes ONLY THREE) internationally illegal conquests since WWII
• The Leopard (actually a TIGER) is China, which has Four Heads which represent the FOUR Branches of Government, and the Four Wings which represent the FOUR Modernizations as coined by Chou En-Lai in 1975.
• The "dreadful" beast will acquire the sovereignty of the three superpowers, along with seven other nations, (of which those identities are already published by the U.N.). A

And when GOD throws the U.N. and the a/c into the pit for a thousand years, the three superpowers will continue to exist for a "season and a time", until they are integrated into Jesus' Millennial Kingdom:

Dan. 7:12
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


Otherwise, per your premise, -- actually per the commentators-- , the Babylonian, Medo/Persian, and Grecian empires must arise from the ashes of history?




With Best Regards,
DD



PS If otherwise, PLEASE provide an explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, for which I can give you some points to consider:

The 4,3,5,2,1, sequence could reflect the following aspects:

1. Alphabetical ranking
2. Brinell hardness ranking
3. Color Spectrum ranking
4. Density ranking (see Specific Gravity ranking)
5. Electrical conductivity ranking
6. FTIR absorption frequency ranking
7. Gram molecular weight ranking
8. Heat of Fusion ranking
9. Insulation ranking
10. etc.

I hope this gives you some alternate explanations for GOD's Intelligent Design -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE -- sequence. Because I'm quite confident that it has nothing to do with GOD distancing the Iron from the Clay to discount a 4a/4b history of empires, which has never materialized historically, but is adhered to as though it had.

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,

Do you know why a chicken coop has two doors? Because if it had four doors it'd be called a chicken sedan. ;)


The fact is Daniel 2 dictates FIVE World empires, of which the FIFTH is "divided" -- presumably between two or MORE. So could it be that the FIFTH "divided" is detailed in Chapter 7 per the FOUR?

And if we look at today's "divided" empires, we should find THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

• The first is the Lion (U.K.) / Eagle (U.S.);
• The second is the Bear (Russia) with the three ribs representing the three (and yes ONLY THREE) internationally illegal conquests since WWII
• The Leopard (actually a TIGER) is China, which has Four Heads which represent the FOUR Branches of Government, and the Four Wings which represent the FOUR Modernizations as coined by Chou En-Lai in 1975.
• The "dreadful" beast will acquire the sovereignty of the three superpowers, along with seven other nations, (of which those identities are already published by the U.N.). A

And when GOD throws the U.N. and the a/c into the pit for a thousand years, the three superpowers will continue to exist for a "season and a time", until they are integrated into Jesus' Millennial Kingdom:

Dan. 7:12
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


Otherwise, per your premise, -- actually per the commentators-- , the Babylonian, Medo/Persian, and Grecian empires must arise from the ashes of history?




With Best Regards,
DD



PS If otherwise, PLEASE provide an explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, for which I can give you some points to consider:

The 4,3,5,2,1, sequence could reflect the following aspects:

1. Alphabetical ranking
2. Brinell hardness ranking
3. Color Spectrum ranking
4. Density ranking (see Specific Gravity ranking)
5. Electrical conductivity ranking
6. FTIR absorption frequency ranking
7. Gram molecular weight ranking
8. Heat of Fusion ranking
9. Insulation ranking
10. etc.
I hope this gives you some alternate explanations for GOD's Intelligent Design -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE -- sequence. Because I'm quite confident that it has nothing to do with GOD distancing the Iron from the Clay to discount a 4a/4b history of empires, which has never materialized historically, but is adhered to as though it had.

You can force all you want but Daniel only reveal four beasts. Say it with me "Four beasts" not five, but four. My 6 year old could count have many beasts are in Daniel 7 so you are without excuse Dadad.

 

[DaDad]

You can force all you want but Daniel only reveal four beasts. Say it with me "Four beasts" not five, but four. My 6 year old could count have many beasts are in Daniel 7 so you are without excuse Dadad.

Hi Purity,

It seems you've confused Chapter 2 with Chapter 7:

Chapter 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold
4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


Chapter 7
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings.
5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear.
6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard,
7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful
1,2,3,4 = FOUR

HINT: FIVE ≠ FOUR


If your little 6 year old isn't too busy playing with his/her blocks, perhaps he/she can help you with these numbers, because you don't seem too good at it. ;)

And if it turns out to be too puzzling for your little one (the apple may not have fallen too far from the tree), maybe my little three year old granddaughter can come to your rescue.



With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,

It seems you've confused Chapter 2 with Chapter 7:

Chapter 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold
4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


Chapter 7
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings.
5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear.
6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard,
7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful
1,2,3,4 = FOUR

HINT: FIVE ≠ FOUR


If your little 6 year old isn't too busy playing with his/her blocks, perhaps he/she can help you with these numbers, because you don't seem too good at it. ;)

And if it turns out to be too puzzling for your little one (the apple may not have fallen too far from the tree), maybe my little three year old granddaughter can come to your rescue.



With Best Regards,
DD

4 includes 5 ;) Only God can do this with numbers!

 

[DaDad]

4 includes 5 Only God can do this with numbers!

Hi Purity,

Why would you twist what GOD says? Are you suggesting that there are Four world empires in Chapter 7, and a parallel FIVE world empires in Chapter 2? Are you making GOD the author of confusion? Is this some little game? Who in their right mind toys with GOD's Word?


Purity, you may think inane quips are funny but GOD is not to be triffled with, and those that do are discussed in Proverbs.



Good Luck,
DD

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, DaDad.

Hi Purity,

Do you know why a chicken coop has two doors? Because if it had four doors it'd be called a chicken sedan. ;)


The fact is Daniel 2 dictates FIVE World empires, of which the FIFTH is "divided" -- presumably between two or MORE. So could it be that the FIFTH "divided" is detailed in Chapter 7 per the FOUR?

And if we look at today's "divided" empires, we should find THREE Superpowers and the United Nations.

• The first is the Lion (U.K.) / Eagle (U.S.);
• The second is the Bear (Russia) with the three ribs representing the three (and yes ONLY THREE) internationally illegal conquests since WWII
• The Leopard (actually a TIGER) is China, which has Four Heads which represent the FOUR Branches of Government, and the Four Wings which represent the FOUR Modernizations as coined by Chou En-Lai in 1975.
• The "dreadful" beast will acquire the sovereignty of the three superpowers, along with seven other nations, (of which those identities are already published by the U.N.). A

And when GOD throws the U.N. and the a/c into the pit for a thousand years, the three superpowers will continue to exist for a "season and a time", until they are integrated into Jesus' Millennial Kingdom:

Dan. 7:12
11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.


Otherwise, per your premise, -- actually per the commentators-- , the Babylonian, Medo/Persian, and Grecian empires must arise from the ashes of history?




With Best Regards,
DD



PS If otherwise, PLEASE provide an explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE, for which I can give you some points to consider:

The 4,3,5,2,1, sequence could reflect the following aspects:

1. Alphabetical ranking
2. Brinell hardness ranking
3. Color Spectrum ranking
4. Density ranking (see Specific Gravity ranking)
5. Electrical conductivity ranking
6. FTIR absorption frequency ranking
7. Gram molecular weight ranking
8. Heat of Fusion ranking
9. Insulation ranking
10. etc.

I hope this gives you some alternate explanations for GOD's Intelligent Design -- 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE -- sequence. Because I'm quite confident that it has nothing to do with GOD distancing the Iron from the Clay to discount a 4a/4b history of empires, which has never materialized historically, but is adhered to as though it had.

OH! So THAT'S what you're trying to READ INTO this passage of Scripture! Sorry, dude, but the Scriptures are clear about Dani'el 2's interpretation:

Daniel 2:36-43
36 "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
39 "After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron — for iron breaks and smashes everything — and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
NIV

Dani'el said that NEBUCHADNEZZAR was that head of gold! The kingdom that would come after Him, namely Medo-Persia, would be the chest and arms of silver! The kingdom after that, namely Macedonia-Greece, would be the third of bronze, and Rome that came after them would be the legs of iron.

Chapter 7 zooms in on these. It does NOT present a different list of kingdoms! The lion with wings of an eagle was PRECISELY the symbol for ancient Babylon! Haven't you ever seen the archaeological evidence? Here's an image from Ancient History Encyclopedia


http://www.ancient.eu.com/image/529/

or try this one from Bible Picture Gallery:

http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/la/world/worship/pagan/p_symbol/Babylonian%20composite%20beast%20-%20a%20lion%20with%20wings%20an.gif.

Babylon was that lion with eagle's wings. Later images of Nebuchadnezzar's lions did not have the wings.

Methinks you're trying too hard to find modern nations in the Bible.

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,

Why would you twist what GOD says? Are you suggesting that there are Four world empires in Chapter 7, and a parallel FIVE world empires in Chapter 2? Are you making GOD the author of confusion? Is this some little game? Who in their right mind toys with GOD's Word?


Purity, you may think inane quips are funny but GOD is not to be triffled with, and those that do are discussed in Proverbs.



Good Luck,
DD

Can you explain to me what the clay represents in the image?

 

[DaDad]

OH! So THAT'S what you're trying to READ INTO this passage of Scripture!

Hi Retrobyter,

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ...


I don't have a problem with people who disregard Scripture. Under GOD's grace they're given the freedom to either accept or reject HIS Word. But you might want to heed the words of the Grail Knight in the movie The Last Crusade: "He chose poorly."


With Best Regards,
DD

PS If you'd like to assess the impossibility of ancient fulfillments for Daniel 7, Walvood provides scholar citations in which the purported Bear -- Medo/Persian "fulfillment" cannot historically comply with the Scriptural dictates. But the commentators have no other explanation, so they fudge Scripture and History, and leave you to believe a lie. Read it for yourself: Walvoord, John, (of Dallas Theological Seminary), "Daniel, The Key To Prophetic Revelation".



Hi Purity,

Can you explain to me what the clay represents in the image?

It should be obvious that the world empires under the Metropolis Model degrade from Gold to dirt (clay). And where many assert that man is still evolving to a higher order, I would propose that he is devolving with time.


Of course the corollary to this is that where true intellect is declining, technology (through computers) compensates:

Dan. 12:4
“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,


It should be obvious that the world empires under the Metropolis Model degrade from Gold to dirt (clay). And where many assert that man is still evolving to a higher order, I would propose that he is devolving with time.


Of course the corollary to this is that where true intellect is declining, technology (through computers) compensates:

Dan. 12:4
“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”


With Best Regards,
DD

Do you think Nebuchadnezzar who undoubtedly was the greatest didctator to have ever walk could comprehend his power and authority would one day be distributed to common people (i.e. democracy)

Prior to Christs return the frog like Spirits would bring madness in the form of human rights; woman's lib movements and political correctness.

No fifth kingdom by a hybrid of what is left from Rome and the peoples of the earth.

The image must stand once again before the stone is taken without hands and is launched at its feet. This will usher in the millennial age and the coming King.

Purity

 

[DaDad]

No fifth kingdom

Hi Purity,

Please make your corrections to Scripture:

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. = 4,3,5,2,1= FIVE


Otherwise provide an alternate explanation.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,

Please make your corrections to Scripture:

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. = 4,3,5,2,1= FIVE


Otherwise provide an alternate explanation.


With Best Regards,
DD

Here is where your issue stems DD.

Daniel 2 is the Kingdoms of Men through the eyes of a man, namely Nebuchadnezzar. You will recall the dream, but not its interpretation was given to the King of Babylon? The feet provided him, and us, an integral understanding of how the Kingdom of Men would present prior to Christs second coming. A remanet of a long forgotten Roman empire combined with the present day democracy is the feet of the image.

Daniel 7 is the Kingdoms of Men through Gods eyes. They are gnashing and terrible beasts, not an imposing warlike stature of a man - but four beasts each with defining features, all of which speak to their respective kingdoms.

Of course how the forth terrible beast relates to the beasts of revelation is essential if one is to know the times and seasons in which we live. Feel obliged to hold onto your 4,3,5,2,1= FIVE theology and if God wills I hope to see you at the judgement of the saints and then let the grinding process begin.

God bless.
Purity

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, DaDad.

Hi Purity,

Please make your corrections to Scripture:

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. = 4,3,5,2,1= FIVE


Otherwise provide an alternate explanation.


With Best Regards,
DD

Remember: The clay is NOT a separate element in this statue. It is mixed with the iron! It is NOT without the iron mixed in. In fact, when we make steel, we add a very small percentage of carbon to the iron. I don't think it's the same thing, here, but it IS an ALLOY (and probably mixes as well as oil and water)!

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Daniel 2:45
45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Jesus the rock wins!

 

[DaDad]

Hi Purity,

Here is where your issue stems DD.

Daniel 2 is the Kingdoms of Men through the eyes of a man

I believe GOD provided the sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. If you believe that Nebuchadnezzar penned those words, then I would propose that ALL of SCRIPTURE is suspect to your interpretative methodology.

Feel obliged to hold onto your 4,3,5,2,1= FIVE theology ...

Once again, I believe that GOD penned that sequence:

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold ... = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


Perhaps you've confused your authors.

With Best Regards,
DD





Hi Retrobyter,

Remember: The clay is NOT a separate element in this statue.

I believe that GOD separated the CLAY from proximity with the IRON: IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD, = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. As such, please address your concern to GOD.

[The Clay] is mixed with the iron!

Please recite with me:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD ...

Please recall the the Roman Empire was not conquered, and the Representative REPUBLIC form of governance was never replaced. As such we should find that virtually allof the world's nations ARE REPUBLICS, and as such, have that historical residue of Iron.


Did you think that GOD was confused as to the status of HIS creation?



With Best Regards,
DD

Jesus the rock wins!

I'm not sure what you point is. We're discussing whether the sequence Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE is GOD's specific recognition that the Clay is not a subset of the Iron. Thus one should conclude that the 1,2,3,4a/4b doctrine is false.

Does this help?
DD

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Hi Purity,


I believe GOD provided the sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. If you believe that Nebuchadnezzar penned those words, then I would propose that ALL of SCRIPTURE is suspect to your interpretative methodology.



Once again, I believe that GOD penned that sequence:

Daniel 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold ... = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


Perhaps you've confused your authors.

With Best Regards,
DD





Hi Retrobyter,


I believe that GOD separated the CLAY from proximity with the IRON: IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD, = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. As such, please address your concern to GOD.




Please recite with me:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD ...

Please recall the the Roman Empire was not conquered, and the Representative REPUBLIC form of governance was never replaced. As such we should find that virtually allof the world's nations ARE REPUBLICS, and as such, have that historical residue of Iron.


Did you think that GOD was confused as to the status of HIS creation?



With Best Regards,
DD






I'm not sure what you point is. We're discussing whether the sequence Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE is GOD's specific recognition that the Clay is not a subset of the Iron. Thus one should conclude that the 1,2,3,4a/4b doctrine is false.

Does this help?
DD

The distiction is strength, the toes are partly strong and partly broken,from verse 42.

 

[DaDad]

The distinction is strength, the toes are partly strong and partly broken,from verse 42.

Hi Eric,

I believe that "Retrobyter" proposed that premise in Post #2, which I addressed in Post #4 as follows:

Apparently you propose the following heirarchy:

4. Very Hard -- Iron
3. Moderately Hard -- Bronze
5. Extremely Hard -- Clay
2. Fairly Soft -- Silver
1. Very Soft -- Gold


Using your concept GOD has already provided YOUR sequence:

5. Extremely Hard -- Clay
4. Very Hard -- Iron
3. Moderately Hard -- Bronze
2. Fairly Soft -- Silver
1. Very Soft -- Gold
5,4,3,2,1 -- ?!?

... so I'm confused how your proposal addresses the 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence?!?


Toward a "hardness" concept, please consider the ceramic (Clay) technology available today:

HARVEST PRECISION COMPONENTS
A new approach to forming and sintering ceramic material, will create a high density, single-phase ceramic material, capable of 1,000 Angstrom-level precision machining, by non-contact (hence non-damaging) Electro Chemical Machining (ECM) processes. Resulting surgical tools will be more corrosion resistant than all metal, ceramic, carbide and diamond materials used today. Tools (i.e. ophthalmologic surgical knives) will be harder than polycrystalline diamond and within 15% of the theoretical hardness of diamond materials used today.



So I guess I'm still stuck with the obvious Intelligent Design that there are FIVE World Empires (4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE), of which the FIFTH is "divided" between 3-superpowers, unless you have any other ideas.

Interestingly, the "hardness" of CLAY is indeterminable, because it can be as soft as water, and harder than iron (85% the hardness of diamond). Furthermore, if the CLAY is "broken", (i.e., "dust"), then shouldn't this "dust" be softer than Gold?

5. Clay
1. Gold
2. Silver
3. Bronze
4. Iron

But Daniel 2:45 says IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. And if the sequence WERE of relative hardness, then what is the significance of GOD providing a "hardness" ranking, anymore than:

1. Alphabetical ranking
2. Brinell hardness ranking
3. Color Spectrum ranking
4. Density ranking (see Specific Gravity ranking)
5. Electrical conductivity ranking
6. FTIR absorption frequency ranking
7. Gram molecular weight ranking
8. Heat of Fusion ranking
9. Insulation ranking
10. etc.

But in any case, your (and Retrobyter's) Hardness doesn't appear to meet the 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE heirarchy. So it appears that we are still at the original Post premise, where the sequence is simply provided to distance the CLAY from the IRON, thereby discounting a false 1,2,3,4a/4. And if history is the judge, then that historical context places us in a FIFTH "divided" empire in which there are THREE-SUPERPOWERS.

But then again, some doctrines may supersede Scripture and History.



With Best Regards,
DD

 

[Purity]

Hi Purity,


I believe GOD provided the sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. If you believe that Nebuchadnezzar penned those words, then I would propose that ALL of SCRIPTURE is suspect to your interpretative methodology.

Where did I say Nebuchadnezzar penned those words?

Its clear you missed the point being made.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, DaDad.

...

Hi Retrobyter,


I believe that GOD separated the CLAY from proximity with the IRON: IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD, = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. As such, please address your concern to GOD.

Please recite with me:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under GOD ...

Please recall the the Roman Empire was not conquered, and the Representative REPUBLIC form of governance was never replaced. As such we should find that virtually allof the world's nations ARE REPUBLICS, and as such, have that historical residue of Iron.

Did you think that GOD was confused as to the status of HIS creation?

With Best Regards,
DD

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

That is our promise to the American Flag and to the one Nation under God - that republic - to be loyal and faithful to both, giving of ourselves when the time comes and when our Nation or our God calls! We recognize in this pledge, this promise, that we stand united and indivisible with ONE MIND and as ONE BODY to maintain her ability through God to provide liberty and justice for all mankind and for each individual within her jurisdiction. How's that going where YOU live?!

We may stand united in certain issues in the eyes of the world, but in private circles within our borders, we are not so "indivisible" any more. Many have left God and have worked diligently to leave God out of their lives and have become divisive, even attempting to re-write our history books to extract God from them!

Now, look at verses 42 and 43, to which Eric was pointing. (I'm going to use the NIV so you can perhaps see "the forest for all the trees.") Here's Daniel's interpretation of the dream for the king:

Daniel 2:36-45
36 "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 You, O king (Nebuchadnezzar), are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You (king Nebuchadnezzar) are that head of gold.
39 "After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. (Medo-Persia) Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. (Macedonia-Greece) 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron — for iron breaks and smashes everything — and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. (Rome) 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.
44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands — a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.
"The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and the interpretation is trustworthy."
NIV

It's not that difficult. SEE IT BIG BUT KEEP IT SIMPLE!!

If order is so important in verse 45, how do you explain the order of verse 35?!

Verse 45 says "Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold," but verse 35 says "Iron, Clay, Bronze, Silver, Gold!" Maybe God had both ways recorded so that guys like you wouldn't go off thinking that the order was important, right?