Point on theRapture

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Hitch

Member
May 7, 2011
153
5
18
PeoplesRepublikofOregon
Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.​



Remember it is the same bunch who taught the rapture would happen any moment and all that goes with it a also taught that the Lord's Prayer has no place in the church.
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
Hitch, you really gotta quit eating cough syrup for breakfast.

Slow down, focus, and try again......
 

Hitch

Member
May 7, 2011
153
5
18
PeoplesRepublikofOregon
Hitch, you really gotta quit eating cough syrup for breakfast.

Slow down, focus, and try again......
Want the quotes sweetie?


One of the best known and at the same time most characteristic illustrations of the dispensational method and the dangers that beset it is the Lord's Prayer. There are thousands of Christians today who do not use this prayer: there are many ministers who have eliminated it from the accustomed order of worship in their churches. Why is this ? The reason is briefly stated in the comment which is found in the margin of the Scofield Bible on the Fifth Petition, "and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors":
"This is legal ground. Cf. Eph. iv. 32, which is grace. Under law forgiveness is conditioned upon a like spirit in us ; under grace we are forgiven for Christ's sake, and exhorted to forgive because we have been forgiven. See Matt. xviii. 32 xxvi. 28, note." (4)
"This is legal ground" is the indictment brought by Dispensationalism against this petition. Law, of course, belongs to the Dispensation of Law. We are today in the Church age, the Dispensation of Grace. Therefore this petition and by inference the whole prayer is legal and not for the Christian. Dr. Haldeman puts it bluntly when he says ". . . . it does not belong to the Church, it is not for the Christian at all ". He calls it "a prayer that has no more place in the Christian church than the thunders of Sinai, or the offerings of Leviticus "(5)
This appears in section II

See the entire article here;

http://www.banneroft..._detail.php?114
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
Remember it is the same bunch who taught the rapture would happen any moment and all that goes with it a also taught that the Lord's Prayer has no place in the church.

First off, if "the same bunch" you speak of have already been proven wrong about the Rapture, then why would it matter what they say about how the Lord taught us to pray.

Second off, the words "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever" were not uttered by Christ and are not in the scriptures.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Looks like Catholics got it right on this one :)
 

Hitch

Member
May 7, 2011
153
5
18
PeoplesRepublikofOregon
First off, if "the same bunch" you speak of have already been proven wrong about the Rapture, then why would it matter what they say about how the Lord taught us to pray.
Because millions blindly follow many of their other teachings, never know the filthy origins.
Second off, the words "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever" were not uttered by Christ and are not in the scriptures.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,200
2,400
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There simply is a scriptural basis for we who believe in the rapture (or the hour the Son of man cometh) to happen at any time or at any moment.


Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40


It may not happen in my timeline... But I will live every day like it will happen today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXO8Y0vvWT0
 

Hitch

Member
May 7, 2011
153
5
18
PeoplesRepublikofOregon
There simply is a scriptural basis for we who believe in the rapture (or the hour the Son of man cometh) to happen at any time or at any moment.


Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40


It may not happen in my timeline... But I will live every day like it will happen today.

Interesting, I wonder, when do you tell people the truth and let the newbies in on the secret?

You speak of the coming of the Lord , but you dont mean the Second Advent.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,200
2,400
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If we could pinpoint events and dates then it would be no need for Jesus to say he comes as a thief... No?

In that he comes as thief, in times as in Noah and in Lot, indicates that his coming for the church is an imminent thing, something that can happen at any hour and on any day.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
895
26
0
If we could pinpoint events and dates then it would be no need for Jesus to say he comes as a thief... No?

In that he comes as thief, in times as in Noah and in Lot, indicates that his coming for the church is an imminent thing, something that can happen at any hour and on any day.

When it is in the likeness of Noah and Lot they are carried off to destruction. This means that you are in the wrong camp. Better search the scriptures and figure out how not to be carried away or you can take my advise and ask God for His spirit in faith and don't stop asking until you have received His Spirit without measure.
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,200
2,400
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When it is in the likeness of Noah and Lot they are carried off to destruction. This means that you are in the wrong camp. Better search the scriptures and figure out how not to be carried away or you can take my advise and ask God for His spirit in faith and don't stop asking until you have received His Spirit without measure.

I have received the Holy Spirit thank you.

When it is in the likeness of Noah and Lot they are carried off to destruction. This means that you are in the wrong camp. Better search the scriptures and figure out how not to be carried away or you can take my advise and ask God for His spirit in faith and don't stop asking until you have received His Spirit without measure.

Atta boy Son of Man... When you are loosing an argument begin accusing the poster of not having the Holy Spirit!
 

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Dec 31, 2010
5,200
2,400
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do those who have received the Holy Spirit obstinately hold to doctrine that is in clear contradiction to scripture?

But... I have posted scripture!
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,084
218
63
67
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Rockytopva, I just wanted to go on record as being another rapture believer, however, I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. My eschatology is pre-wrath. The point I want to make is that Christ doesn't "come as a thief in the night" for the church. No, the thief reference is regarding the unbelieving world. As Paul explains in 1 Thes. 5:2-4 - "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[sup]3 [/sup]For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[sup]4 [/sup]But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Why is the church not in darkness? We have been given the signs which can be found in Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. These signs, btw, parallel the seals in Rev. 6 and our seventh seal arrival in heaven can be found in Rev. 7:9.
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Second off, the words "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever" were not uttered by Christ and are not in the scriptures.

They are scripture based:
Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, (1Chr 29:10-11- KJV)

to him be glory and power forever (and ever). Amen. (Rev 1:6 - NAB)

Looks like Catholics got it right on this one :)

Yup, and it takes Catholics to point out the scriptural basis. Sure know their scripture these Catholics. :D
 

Foreigner

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
2,583
123
0
They are scripture based:
Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, (1Chr 29:10-11- KJV)

to him be glory and power forever (and ever). Amen. (Rev 1:6 - NAB)

-- Those words may be "scripture based," but they were not uttered by Jesus when he was instructing us on how to pray.

Translation: The are NOT part of the Lord's Prayer.

Catholics should feel free to tack it on the end. They should NOT feel free to try to pass it off as what Christ said when He taught us how to pray.
 

Trekson

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2012
2,084
218
63
67
Kentucky
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The majority of pre-trib believers do not agree with the "stated" OP, imo
 

Mungo

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2012
4,332
643
113
England
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
-- Those words may be "scripture based," but they were not uttered by Jesus when he was instructing us on how to pray.

Translation: The are NOT part of the Lord's Prayer.

Catholics should feel free to tack it on the end. They should NOT feel free to try to pass it off as what Christ said when He taught us how to pray.

Catholics have never tacked them on to the end or tried to pass them off as part of the Lord's prayer. It's Protestants who have done that.

My response was to the claim that they are not in scripture.
 

[email protected]

Choir Loft
Apr 2, 2009
1,635
127
63
West Central Florida
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.​



Remember it is the same bunch who taught the rapture would happen any moment and all that goes with it a also taught that the Lord's Prayer has no place in the church.

WOW !!!

If you're going to believe a lie and promulgate it as fact, you may as well pick a big one. Joe Stalin and Mr. Hitler would be proud of you, not to mention all the folks on Madison Avenue and in the Pentagon.

In the days when Jesus Christ walked the earth, it was the custom of those who learned (disciples) from their betters (Rabbi-teacher) to ask how to pray. The followers of Jesus were no exception.

The answer to the question as to how to pray were very often different. Some were erudite and others were very convoluted and ideologically precise. None were as poetic and earnest as the one Jesus taught his crew. "Teach us how to pray," they asked Him. He did, and in the process gave the world a blended standard of the needs and answers to the spiritual and physical life that is unequaled anywhere.

Nineteen centuries later, the convoluted religious and political environment in post-civil war America gave birth to a need to describe what it meant to be Christian. No straight forward statement of faith or logic resulted. The words of Jesus had been recorded and memorized ages before on the far shores of an ocean of time, but in America at the beginning of the industrial revolution, it was thought something more should be added. When man decides to add to the Word of God nothing good ever comes of it.

Beginning with John Nelson Darby's Dispensationalism (mid-1800's - same time as Darwin's work BTW) and his published effort to clarify the muddy waters of Millenialism, we first discover the ideological fetus of rapturism. The twentieth century began with the publication of twelve tracts defining the "fundamental" precepts of protestant Christianity. Each tract was a volume that could match the current New York City telephone directory in size and weight. In the end, the Niagara Conference, which was meant to serve as a rubber stamp for these doctrines, served only to grant a perverted sense of legitimacy to a series of predictions of the future; the great tribulation and the rapture of the saints. It should be noted that all of this angst was a purely American adventure into a sort of religious/spiritual fetish about matters and times and events that no one really had any control over. No other nation or group of Christians gave so much as an ounce of credibility or attention to any of this. It didn't matter, though. Like apple pie and the striped flag it was All-American and therefore a gift from the very throne of God.

Whether you believe that the fantasy of the rapture is something that your very life and salvation hang upon or whether you believe that the Lord's prayer is a true work of literary art is irrelevant. They are two very dissimilar things separated by centuries and cultures that no longer exist except in history books and the memory of those who hold them dear.

To say that the prayer of Jesus and the idiocy of the rapture was invented and published by the same group of people, or 'bunch' as it were, is to demonstrate illiteracy and inconsideration for historic fact that can only be attributed to one who is more mentally challenged than those that are being accused of it.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...