Polygamy

[Arnie Manitoba]

Should be interesting debate amongst the liberals though, on the one hand they have been talking about monogamous homosexual relations, but if people love each other the liberals usually support it.

talk about liberal media .... here is what happened a couple of years ago .... our CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) is very liberal , anti-christian , in favor of gay rights , abortion etc.

Any chance they get they are bashing Christians and point out the tiniest flaws. So of course they were investigating a commune who practiced polygamy (by the way , the commune was not christian , but the CBC had assumed it was)

The reporter was interviewing (interrogating) the leader of the group .... saying how terrible it was for a man such as him to have multiple wives.

The group leader gave a brilliant reply that floored the news reporter.

He said ....

........the media likes to persecute me because I have several wives .... but if I was a homosexual with several lovers you would be patting me on the back and telling me what a wonderful person I am.

.

 

[JosyWales]

Yes Arnie, there is. It may even apply to the same individual.

Strat, actually, these passages may have even more significance than you suspect. I think that this is related to the prophecy of the candlestick with the bowl on top of it that feeds the seven lights in Zech 4:2 and may even have something to do with the seven thunders that answer the strong angel in Rev 10.

If you take it further, it might be interesting to note that in Zech 1, when speaking of the Angel of the Lord who rides the Red Horse (seems familier with the second angel of Revelation, doesnt it?), it speaks of him standing among the Myrtle Trees. Did you know that Queen Esthers hebrew name of Hadassa means "myrtle"?

I think it is all connected.

I think it funny that people who say they are christians are willing to condemn something God says is beautiful that will happen to a man of God in the future, since it sure seems to have not happened yet.

Just to clarify though, most of the "multiple wife' thing done by men today do not follow the rules concerning having more than one wife found in the Bible. Also, if a man does this just to satisfy his own lust and desire, then I wont say it is Holy. After all, having a wife should be for more than just to get sex. That being said though, the situation itself is not evil if done properly, with everyone being treated fairly and it being completely consenual by all parties involved.

There is nothing in the Bible that forbids it and many of those we hold in high esteem in the Bible like Jacob and David all had multiple wives and were not comdemed for it by God. Solomon would have been ok as well if he had not taken wives who worshiped other Gods from what I can tell.

 

[us2are1]

Christ said "The Flesh profits nothing" Is that so hard to understand? What exactly does the Lord have to do to get those who speak in His name to make the path straight? Christ's example should be all that they need.

Why does it seem like every different faction and belief is based on the lusts of someones flesh?

 

[JosyWales]

If this was just about lusts of the flesh, then that would be one thing. However, it is more than that.

The passage I quoted in Isa 4 has to do with a person sent from God in time to come. You are getting ready to make him a criminal, just like they did to Jesus.

Also, you should notice that it is the women who choose the man in this passage, not the other way around. However, the end result is still that they all want him as husband work it out to make it so.

 

[us2are1]

If this was just about lusts of the flesh, then that would be one thing. However, it is more than that.

The passage I quoted in Isa 4 has to do with a person sent from God in time to come. You are getting ready to make him a criminal, just like they did to Jesus.

Also, you should notice that it is the women who choose the man in this passage, not the other way around. However, the end result is still that they all want him as husband work it out to make it so.

It is indeed about the lusts of the flesh. The choices are clear follow King Solomon to destruction. Or follow Christ to eternal life.

 

[Eltanin]

This is a topic in which the two sides will never agree...

I think Josy has it right... If a polygamous marriage is agreeable for all involved, and it isn't set up for reasons that run counter to God's plan for the individuals involved, then I do not see how any individual who does is not a part of the relationship can judge it otherwise...

I don't understand how anyone can be happy in such a relationship... I know I could not... But there are allot of things I don't understand that aren't sin...

As for man and woman becoming one flesh... Well, I suppose they can each have their turn in doing so :mellow: ... And as for the topic of Christ and His Bride... Well, if you think about it, it might actually cover polygamy as well, since His bride is made up of many people...

Yeah, I know they are loose points... But the fact is, neither side has strong case to say they are completely right...

I have to agree with Brother James and say what might separate one person from the purpose God has for them might not separate another person from that purpose... I can't see where the minutia of sin is completely outlined in the Bible, and so it is left to the individual to recognize what comes between them and their relationship to God...

Sometimes things we think are good can become sin because they are not done in the right attitude...

Thinking about it, I am starting to find this topic a bit ironic... The Old Testament was all about the Law, and following the Law no matter what... The New Testament was about the fulfillment of the Law, and being released into freedom... Now as Christians, we are not bound by the Law, but freed by the Blood... We keep the law because we can: because we love the Lawgiver, and not because we have too... Yet here we are trying to set the boundaries of the Law again, not only for ourselves but others... We have been given the Spirit to guide us in what is right, but we keep turning to the Old Law...

All that I can really say with any certainty is that I could not live in a polygamous relationship... I would be constantly striving for the 'top spot' of favorite wife, instead of living in God's purpose for me...
I can see where having another wife around might lighten a load for some women, and maybe that is what some people need so that they can focus on their Spiritual relationship...

In the end, I think it is up to the Holy Spirit to lead us in the direction we need to go, and it up to the individual to listen.

 

[Brother James]

I have to agree with Brother James and say what might separate one person from the purpose God has for them might not separate another person from that purpose...

Well, I was not going to post further, but I do want to comment on this because what you've said is not precisely what I (thought I) said. I don't believe in situational morality. I do believe God judges our heart based on the understanding He has blessed us with. That may look outwardly different to others. But I don't think, for example, that stealing might be okay for some people some times, but wrong all the time for others. I just wanted to clarify that.

As long as I'm here, though, just a question to consider. If there is a law against something the Bible doesn't explicitly say is a sin, is it okay for me to violate that law? For example, I don't think God really cares what day I water my lawn, but where I live they tell me I can legally only water it on certain days. Would I be in the right to say that I can do what I want and ignore the law because God does not consider watering my lawn to be a sin?

 

[Eltanin]

Well, I was not going to post further, but I do want to comment on this because what you've said is not precisely what I (thought I) said. I don't believe in situational morality. I do believe God judges our heart based on the understanding He has blessed us with. That may look outwardly different to others. But I don't think, for example, that stealing might be okay for some people some times, but wrong all the time for others. I just wanted to clarify that.

As long as I'm here, though, just a question to consider. If there is a law against something the Bible doesn't explicitly say is a sin, is it okay for me to violate that law? For example, I don't think God really cares what day I water my lawn, but where I live they tell me I can legally only water it on certain days. Would I be in the right to say that I can do what I want and ignore the law because God does not consider watering my lawn to be a sin?

I am sorry to make it sound like I was taking you out pf context... I don't believe in situational morality... But in areas where the law is undefined, I believe we need to listen to the Holy Spirit... and some things aren't good (or bad) for everyone...

And I believe God wants us to honor the law of the land as long as it is not in direct violation with His law... that being said, if polygamy is against the law of the land, then I feel it is sin to enter into such a relationship when under that law... In places where it is not against the law, then I think it needs to be the part of the Holy Spirit to lead people in how they should live.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Eltanin,

Don't you think that when Jesus told married men that to look on another woman lustfully was adultery, He closed the door to polygamy?

 

[JosyWales]

How do you explain the prophecy of Isa 4 if it is really so wrong, under the right conditions of course?
Although, maybe that is just supposed to be a one of a kind deal or something.
Actually I am not married at all and have never been, so to me it is just an academic question, but it would be bad if a future prophet like the one mentioned here gets skewered because of this I would think.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi JosyWales,

Alright, then I have just one question.

How do you explain the prophecy of Isa 4?

Isaiah was prophesying of the events which Jeremiah describes in greater detail. Did you know that?

It will help me to answer if you could tell me, and then I'll focus on a more detailed reply.

 

[JosyWales]

Hello Dragonfly.

I guess I should post the entire thing in context so that people can understand. It is very short so it should not be too bad.

Isa 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Isa 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth [shall be] excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, [that he that is] left in Zion, and [he that] remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, [even] every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 4:5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory [shall be] a defence.

Isa 4:6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

This whole chapter is a prophecy of someone called the Branch who is to appear at the time of the Apocalypse. As you can see by verse 5, this event is yet to come even tho it parallels the fire and smoke that followed the Isrealites during their walk in the wilderness. I think this is a discription of how those who believe in God will be protected during the 42 months of the Beasts reign as he runs roughshod over the world.

This particular fellow, known as the Branch, shows up several places in the bible and is associated with both being a man of God and the Apocalypse.

He is found mentioned in :

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [is] The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

These two go together:

Jer 23:5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS

Now, as you can see, this fellow is a fairly popular figure in the Old Testament and at first glance, you might want to say they are talking about Jesus, but several things are wrong with that.

First, Jesus didnt fulfill the prophecy of Isa 4 with the seven women. He also didnt build the temple of the Lord as it says in Zech 6:12. Not only that but Isreal still to this day does not dwell safely like it says it will in Jer 23:6.

I think it is in referance to Michael, who I believe will appear on the earth as a man, just like Jesus did, and fight Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet prior to the return of the Lord.

This will fulfill a number of prophesies that are yet to happen such as:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

The Ancient of Days is Jesus, since the discription of his appearance and actions are an exact match with those of Jesus at his return in Rev 19:11-21. I believe this is Michael being presented before Jesus at the end of the Apocalypse and given reward for his work for as we know

Rev 12:7 ¶ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

I also think that the passage in Rev 10 relates to Isa 4 where it says:

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

I think the seven thunders are the same as the seven women of Isa 4. This is the same event, but more elaborated in its spiritual form.

If you do not understand how I have arrieved at most of these conclusions, you might want to visit a thread I started in the Eschatology forum titled "The True Interpretation of Daniel and Revelation". Sorry if the title seems a bit pretentious, but I was trying to call attention to my ideas.

 

[us2are1]

This is a topic in which the two sides will never agree...

I think Josy has it right... If a polygamous marriage is agreeable for all involved, and it isn't set up for reasons that run counter to God's plan for the individuals involved, then I do not see how any individual who does is not a part of the relationship can judge it otherwise...

I don't understand how anyone can be happy in such a relationship... I know I could not... But there are allot of things I don't understand that aren't sin...

As for man and woman becoming one flesh... Well, I suppose they can each have their turn in doing so :mellow: ... And as for the topic of Christ and His Bride... Well, if you think about it, it might actually cover polygamy as well, since His bride is made up of many people...

Yeah, I know they are loose points... But the fact is, neither side has strong case to say they are completely right...

I have to agree with Brother James and say what might separate one person from the purpose God has for them might not separate another person from that purpose... I can't see where the minutia of sin is completely outlined in the Bible, and so it is left to the individual to recognize what comes between them and their relationship to God...

Sometimes things we think are good can become sin because they are not done in the right attitude...

Thinking about it, I am starting to find this topic a bit ironic... The Old Testament was all about the Law, and following the Law no matter what... The New Testament was about the fulfillment of the Law, and being released into freedom... Now as Christians, we are not bound by the Law, but freed by the Blood... We keep the law because we can: because we love the Lawgiver, and not because we have too... Yet here we are trying to set the boundaries of the Law again, not only for ourselves but others... We have been given the Spirit to guide us in what is right, but we keep turning to the Old Law...

All that I can really say with any certainty is that I could not live in a polygamous relationship... I would be constantly striving for the 'top spot' of favorite wife, instead of living in God's purpose for me...
I can see where having another wife around might lighten a load for some women, and maybe that is what some people need so that they can focus on their Spiritual relationship...

In the end, I think it is up to the Holy Spirit to lead us in the direction we need to go, and it up to the individual to listen.

Oh they will come to agree in the not to distant future because the two witnesses of the Lord are about to begin their ministry and all of the abominations and false beliefs will fall and never rise again to the end of Christ's reign on earth.




.

 

[Eltanin]

Hi Eltanin,

Don't you think that when Jesus told married men that to look on another woman lustfully was adultery, He closed the door to polygamy?

Not necessarily...
What if the man isn't looking upon another woman with lust, and takes her to be his wife...

Some people still follow the laws of the OT that deal with brother's widows and so forth... What if a man takes a woman as wife because he feels it is his duty?

 

[Groundzero]

Hi Groundzero,



Let me put it another way.

Under the law, if a man married to one wife looked lustfully at another woman, as long as she was not already married, he could take her to be his wife, no questions asked, not stoning.

Now, (biblically) when a man married to one wife, looks lustfully at another woman - according to Jesus - he is committing adultery with her in his heart.

That was and is, Jesus addressing polygamy.

Adultery from common definition: extramarital sex.

Polygyny (specific term for what we are discussing): When a man is married to more than one wife at a time

Polygyny is NOT having sexual relations outside of marriage. If that man, who had several wives, went and had sex with some other woman he wasn't married with, he would be committing adultery. But if it was one of his wives, it would not.

Several times it's been admitted that it was allowed in the OT. Now I've got a question: if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, how is it that his opinion (on polygyny) has seemingly changed or become more vocal? See, with God, no matter in what year, murder has been murder, lying has been lying, etc. And at no stage has he given it approval. If polygyny was acceptable in God's eyes for David, Abraham, Moses, Gideon, Jacob, Solomon, Joash, and so many others, why has his opinion suddenly changed? The answer is, no, it hasn't changed. At no stage has God condemned it, and he will never condemn it.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Groundzero,

I tihink we've got the messaage... you think God approved of polygamy before Christ, and you're sure He still does. Well, despite your opinion, there are several places in the NT which disagree. :huh:

In the following passage, note the apostle is not writing to a communal marriage situation where there are several men living with several women who all have sexual access to each other. He is grouping together all the husbands of one wife as 'husbands', and all the one wife of each husband as 'wives'.

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

This state of 'one flesh' used to be known as wedlock. God is able to bless the intended wedlock of a couple, but if one of them breaks it, (Jesus said, even by desiring another woman, Matt 5:27, 28, or, by the woman going with another man Rom 7:1 - 3) it is called adultery now. Previously (OT/OC) the man (whether single or married) had to join himself to another man's wife for it to be adultery, but Jesus changed that, giving women equality.

Can you see that adultery in the OT was committed against another man's marriage. Lev 18. It was not committed against the first and subsequent wives of his own marriage.

Think carefully about the meaning of Rom 7:1 - 3, where the woman is called an adulteress for having broken wedlock with her husband - committed adultery against him - to be joined to another man.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

There is not even a hint of polygamy in the advice Paul is giving over marriage in the following verses.

1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

33 But he that is married cares for the things that are of the world, how he may please [his] wife. 1 Pet 3:7

39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

 

[Aenon]

As Charles Spurgeon once said, “First learn to live with two tigresses, and then expect to live happily with two wives.”

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Eltanin,

Not necessarily...
What if the man isn't looking upon another woman with lust

If he didn't desire her, he'd be crazy to marry her.

What if a man takes a woman as wife because he feels it is his duty?

I'm sorry, I just don't buy either of these options.


These men would be better off employing a house-keeper than taking a wife they don't fancy.




Hi JosyWales,

Thank you for the longer post. I think my reply might be a little disappointing, but I'll give it anyway.

Remembering there were no chapter divisions originally, Isa 4:1 really brings to an end Isa 3:8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings [are] against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. 9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide [it] not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves........ 11 Woe unto the wicked! [it shall be] ill [with him]: for the reward of his hands shall be given him. {given...: Heb. done to him} 12 [As for] my people, children [are] their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause [thee] to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. {lead...: or, call thee blessed} {destroy: Heb. swallow up} 13 The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people. 14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor [is] in your houses. {eaten: or, burnt} 15 What mean ye [that] ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts. 16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing [as] they go, and making a tinkling with their feet: {wanton...: Heb. deceiving with their eyes} {mincing: or, tripping nicely} 17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts. {discover: Heb. make naked} 18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of [their] tinkling ornaments [about their feet], and [their] cauls, and [their] round tires like the moon, {cauls: or, networks} 19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, {chains: or, sweet balls} {mufflers: or, spangled ornaments} 20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, {tablets: Heb. houses of the soul} 21 The rings, and nose jewels, 22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, 23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails. 24 And it shall come to pass, [that] instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; [and] burning instead of beauty. 25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. {mighty: Heb. might} 26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she [being] desolate shall sit upon the ground. {desolate: or, emptied: Heb. cleansed} 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. {let...: Heb. let thy name be called upon us} {to take...: or, take thou away}

God is going to punish the idolaters and idolatresses, and they are going to be destitute afterwards, if they're still alive.


I do not read this as about marriage, although it may be. It is more to do with a covering:

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. 5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory [shall be] a defence. {upon all: or, above all} {defence: Heb. covering} 6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

Who is it that's going to 'purge the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning'?

These are pictures of the Lord Jesus Christ, or His work, or His Spirit (the Holy Spirit). He is the Tabernacle which gives shadow, He is the stronghold which is a place of refuge, He is the husband who is a shelter from the storm. He is 'the man' in Isa 4:1

 

[JosyWales]

Well, Dragonfly, even if you add the entire previous chapter, you still have to admit this is a prophecy of at least Isaiah's future and one which I dont think can be sucessfully argued to have come to pass yet, considering what it says is going to happen. It looks to me like a prophecy of the Apocalypse.

It is also about this guy called The Branch, who is all over Bible prophecy, at least in the Old Testament.

Now is this event marrage? I dont know, tho I dont know what else you call it when a woman (seven in this case) take a hold of you and demand (beg, plead?) to be called by your name. The only time I know of that women take men's names is when they get married.

I will agree, this is not a traditional situation, or perhaps even one that will occur more than once in history and will only happen to this particular individual, but if men deem it to be sin by some common viewpoint concerning multiple wives, then this fellow is in trouble. Then again, maybe that is part of the deal. Perhaps God wants to use him for division of the people.

I say this because of the prophecy of Zech 11, when speaking of the Two Staffs:

Zec 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, [even] Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

The first staff called Beauty is obviously Jesus, since it is sold out for 30 pieces of silver. This second staff seems to be create as much termoil as Jesus did by creating a rift in the closest of brothers. This of course brings to mind the prophecy of Jesus where He said:


Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against [their] parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

After all, everything happens for a reason.

Btw, you notice that part in vs 13 that says "he that shall endure unto the end" right?.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Josy,

you still have to admit this is a prophecy of at least Isaiah's future and one which I dont think can be sucessfully argued to have come to pass yet

In regard to God destroying the people and their idolatry, Jeremiah describes in detail how it was fulfilled.

The only time I know of that women take men's names is when they get married.

The same phrase 'upon whom my name is called' is used frequently by God when referring to Israel, and in Isa 4:1 is better translated: 'Let Thy name be called upon us'. There is symbolism in both 'seven' and 'women', who are desiring to be under a new name. I do agree it appears to speak of marriage, but I don't think it's anything to do with polygamy; rather its about the completion of God's relationship with Israel. The whole idea of a new name goes with the New Covenant.

Perhaps God wants to use him for division of the people.

It is Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, who both divides and unites. Heb 4:12, 13, Eph 2:13, 14, 16, 17, 18.

I've never thought of 'Beauty' as the Lord Jesus Christ, but I can see that's a reasonable interpretation with the benefit of hindsight.

This second staff seems to be create as much termoil as Jesus did by creating a rift in the closest of brothers.

By that stage, God was just finalising what had already happened - that Israel had worshipped idols, been invaded and overcome by an enemy who had put his own people in the land as well as carrying Israelites captive back to its own land. It's the perfect picture of what happens when people worship idols instead of God. God has to establish the boundary/separateness between His people and all others.

It is also about this guy called The Branch, who is all over Bible prophecy, at least in the Old Testament.

'The Branch' is definitely Jesus Christ!

Btw, you notice that part in vs 13 that says "he that shall endure unto the end" right?.

You're in the NT now. What did you want me to notice about it?