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Polygamy?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Savate, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    OKay I admit the Word doesn't condemn outright multiple wives ...but it was written during a time when, multiple wives were the norm... as was slavery, stoning, and other outdated sociatle happenings... Just because God addressed these things in the Word that were happening does not mean we need to reimplement them into today's society...During the time the Word was given God did his best to make the Law address these things to make them more fair... ie: if you blinded a slave, he got his freedom... History proves men used the Word for their own benefit rather that for the Words sake during the Antebellum period of the south.. for while they like Hugh claimethe Wor d of God as their promises of slavery, the seldom keptt he laws as to how slaves were to be kept or for that matter gotten, for the Word in Exodus clearly states to STEAL men or women for slavery was a criminal offense... and this it what you are trying to do...At the time Hebrew women were the only women given any rights of inheritance... Than God today women have equal rights, but Hugh would have them sub-citizens to be used in and treated as near slaves with no right to persue any life other than the one her husband or father chose for her...For God to have left out instruction for that time would have been making a huge(lol) mistake for they had to be dealt with as best He could.. but in the New Testament He put in the words about keeping the laws of the land.. and in this country it is against the law.. if you are doing otherwise you are a criminal...this even means those who deny the law like you Mr. Hugh...Those of us here who study the Word to live by the Word know that the more you know about the Word the less the flesh is in charge... I say Hugh, the Word somehow is wasted on you, perhaps, you are too carnel to understand it fully.. for instead of using it to decrease fleshly needs you are using it to increase it.Enough of this outdated garbage its illegal in the US and therefore aginst the Word of God....PERIOD.
     
  2. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    Sorry. The bit about strangled meat' date=' which refers to eating meat with the blood is still operative in my view. That "Temporary Instruction" wasn't put into sunset. It was an emergency order. The Acts letter regarding fornication and such things was an admonition to stay away from the REALLY bad things, and more would come later. That's what the missionary journeys and letters were about.
     
  3. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    Hugh, I was aware of my need to come to God for repentance at age 5.. I had attended chruch on my mothers knee since birth... my favorite book as a child was the red bible book that had all the stories of the Bible...as I grew up I attended church and read the Bible, but about 1994 when my son was born I began to see more in the Word and a hunger developed... I was reading every chance I could and praying in an intercessory prayer group...Then in 1999, I found out the my biological mother was Jewish... It really opened up a door and a light came on I began to study what the orginal languages were and not just reading for readings sake, but looking to what God had originally intended , not what men had interpretted... then again in 03, I had an accident that left me disabled... I had the blessing of being to study the Word hours every day without having to feel guilty about not being the active woman I had always been some times all day; everyday at least 3 hours... I hope this answered your question...I do also have some experience in the area of polygamy as I have twice been asked to become a second wife.. Both by those of the Church of Christ faith..I have also been offended by many so called Christian men who were married and thought I might become some concubine of sorts...more than 5 who actual touched me in sexually explicit ways... and were repulsed imphatically!I still say I so not desire to read the Bible through 2-3 times a year.. I do desire to understand the Word fully wholly and to prepare myself for the things God desires me to do and understand in the Word..I also must say I do not desire to seem to brag... I have been blessed by God with time and a desire and hunger to know the whole Word.I do not need a flesh husband, I have a husband of the Spirit and He is my provider , my strength and my defender...the last man who by the way wasn't married..said he just couldn't compete with my current husband..I said , oh well..but interestingly when he has major problems, he will call and ask me to pray...I do not need a covering other than Him and have not found a church that teaches truth, all locally teach rapture, apple trees in the garden and other equally false teaching.. but I do attend a verse by verse study with a church every day and spend time in prayer and fellowship with its member on line..Okay so you have it , I don't know why it makes any difference.. you will not convince me of your opinion and certainly I do not think you will come to believe as I..
     
  4. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    Sorry. The bit about strangled meat, which refers to eating meat with the blood is still operative in my view.
    Okay.
    Apparently, it's your turn to miss my point. The issue is "Why can't Mommy have Several Daddies but Daddy can have Several Mommies."
    You seemed to be saying that it is important to ask this question, that information we need is missing if we don’t ask this question. What information is that? To me, the idea that why can’t mommy have several daddies is well covered under all the ideas of idolatry and adultery (on Israel’s part). Every child knows why. If you are looking for a power differential description between God and us, this also seems clear from the bible, to me. What new insight specifically about God are you looking for that is missing from Christian thought? Not the question to ask, but the insight to be gained.
    Since he failed to even get close to condemning it, it's also fair to say nothing is wrong with it.
    I understand that you view the bible as not condemning polygyny. You are not alone in feeling this way. I have seen other Christians make the same observation. Usually in that case they appeal to tradition or authority on the matter, but that appeal is not made by some folk, obviously. I understand this.
    Men CAN have multiple sexual partners, as wives. There is no inherent mandate by God for men to be "sexually exclusive" with one woman. He does think we should be husband to those women we have a sexual relationship with.
    I understand that your contention is that the bible allows men to have multiple wives at the same time. But it remains unclear why you say having the possibility of multiple wives is the specific item that renders it impossible to commit adultery against women. Let’s say I grant your point that the bible does not condemn multiple wives. Okay. So Bob is married to Sue and Debbie. Now, he sets Debbie aside via divorce because he dislikes her relatives. Then he marries Juanita. It seems that the bare words of Mark indicate that he has done adultery against Debbie.Mark 10:11 And He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;Presto, he has committed adultery against Debbie. It is possible for a man to commit the sin of adultery against a woman. Of course, he seems to avoid the whole trouble if he merely keeps Debbie and adds Juanita to the pack, on your view. But that is not the point. The point is that it is possible to commit the sin of adultery against a woman. Mark doesn’t answer the question of why this constitutes adultery. That is a difficult question, for sure. A natural assumption, given that the woman is given the same sort of admonition in the next line, is that the adultery is similar in nature to that of the woman’s. But that does not make it so. As I said, difficult.
     
  5. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    (betchevy;10616)
    "I had an accident that left me disabled... I had the blessing of being to study the Word hours every day without having to feel guilty about not being the active woman I had always been some times all day; everyday at least 3 hours... I hope this answered your question..."
    It does. Expect that I will hold you accountable for knowing the word of God as you should expect me to also know it. Apparently we have both studied it. You didn't answer as to whether or not you had read all of it, but I am going to assume you have. Keep in mind you opened this topic. Chiding me with regard to scriptural knowledge is a dangerous enterprise since I do know it. Also please be aware that I take no credit for my knowledge of the word. I am a "Jonah" that has been driven, harassed and cornered by God into doing as he asks and pursuing his word. All that is good in me is a work of God, not an opportunity for self praise.(betchevy;10616)
    "I do also have some experience in the area of polygamy as I have twice been asked to become a second wife.. Both by those of the Church of Christ faith.."
    This is quite odd, I am not aware of such bold and prolific solicitation into Polygyny within Christianity, and I travel in circles of active Polygynists and those who advocate for the practice.(betchevy;10616)
    "I have also been offended by many so called Christian men who were married and thought I might become some concubine of sorts...more than 5 who actual touched me in sexually explicit ways... and were repulsed imphatically!"
    Since I don't do that, we shall call my claim of being "less perverse" than other men you know in Church, plausable. I am a sinner, but I don't grope or proposition women or girls "under the radar" so to speak. If I were to ask for or take another wife, it would be in the sight of all.(betchevy;10616)
    "I have a husband of the Spirit and He is my provider , my strength and my defender...the last man who by the way wasn't married..said he just couldn't compete with my current husband..I said , oh well..but interestingly when he has major problems, he will call and ask me to pray..."
    I'm not sure what you mean by "husband of the spirit". I'm also not sure if it is relevant to our discussion.(B'midbar;10636)
    "What new insight specifically about God are you looking for that is missing from Christian thought? Not the question to ask, but the insight to be gained."
    It wouldn't be a new insight, but a discarded one. Polygynous families would illustrate how we are to have ONE God, as represented by the Husband, and many worshippers, as represented by the wives and children. Those examples acted out and lived in front of all, are far more effective for illustration and teaching that with mere words.(B'midbar;10636)
    "But it remains unclear why you say having the possibility of multiple wives is the specific item that renders it impossible to commit adultery against women."
    I have carefully crafted my statement not as "women" but as "wives".(B'midbar;10636)
    "Then he marries Juanita. It seems that the bare words of Mark indicate that he has done adultery against Debbie.Mark 10:11 And He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her;Presto, he has committed adultery against Debbie."
    Since I said "Wife" or "wives", here you have your answer. Debbie is no longer a wife of the man who divorced her.(B'midbar;10636)
    "Mark doesn’t answer the question of why this constitutes adultery. That is a difficult question, for sure. A natural assumption, given that the woman is given the same sort of admonition in the next line, is that the adultery is similar in nature to that of the woman’s. But that does not make it so. As I said, difficult."
    I think you have to read Mark 10 in combination with Matthew 19, they are the same discourse.Hugh
     
  6. Bamp;#39;midbar

    Bamp;#39;midbar New Member

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    Polygynous families would illustrate how we are to have ONE God, as represented by the Husband, and many worshippers, as represented by the wives and children.
    This would be easier to understand if you made the analogy to be the husband representing God and the wives the worshipers, leaving the children out. Otherwise one wonders why a family with one wife and several kids doesn't work just as well, since it shows equally well one compared to many.I see how you have crafted your statement about wives and women. But I specified that Debbie was put aside because he disliked her family. This is not a biblical reason to put aside your wife. In Mat, which you point to, it talks about "unchastity" or some other sexual sin, it depends on the translation you pick. Perhaps then what has happened is that Debbie is still his wife, and that is why it is adultery against her, and why if she then remarries after having been dumped that the new man will be committing adultery.
     
  7. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    (B'midbar;10688)
    "This would be easier to understand if you made the analogy to be the husband representing God and the wives the worshipers, leaving the children out."
    Consider it done.(B'midbar;10688)
    "But I specified that Debbie was put aside because he disliked her family. This is not a biblical reason to put aside your wife. In Mat, which you point to, it talks about 'unchastity' or some other sexual sin, it depends on the translation you pick."
    Ok, but I do not favor in any way divorcing your wife for any reason OTHER than her unchastity/sexual sin/fornication/adultery. If a man "put's away" (divorces) his wife, she is, at least in our contemporary terms, not his wife anymore. Thus a man NEVER commits adultery against his wife, it's quite impossible to do.Hugh McBryde
     
  8. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    Since you have asked me personal questions I would like to ask you one... Why ? What motivates you to want or need more than one woman in you home? If you live in the US you are breaking the law..and you must have a major motivation for breaking the law.. So what is it?
     
  9. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    I think what happened was I asked you a pertinent question regarding your Bible knowledge, and then you told me more than I needed to know about your personal life.(betchevy;10718)
    "Since you have asked me personal questions I would like to ask you one... Why ?"
    It continues to not matter.(betchevy;10718)
    "What motivates you to want or need more than one woman in you home?"
    Ok, I'll answer this one just for fun. I really really really like women. I like to have them around, I enjoy talking to them.(betchevy;10718)
    "If you live in the US you are breaking the law."
    No, I'm not.(betchevy;10718)
    "...and you must have a major motivation for breaking the law."
    Since I don't, I don't have the accompanying motivation. I've never been in trouble with the law and in fact have letters of thanks from local law enforcement agencies for aiding in the capture of fugitives.(betchevy;10718)
    "So what is it?"
    I can't drive.....55!Hugh
     
  10. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    So you do not legally marry these women? right?That is how you get around the issue of bigomy?
     
  11. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    (betchevy;10723)
    "So you do not legally marry these women? right?That is how you get around the issue of bigomy?"
    Without admitting to my current status, anyone can get around the issue of bigamy by simply not registering their relationships (marriages) legally. I could marry one under the law of the land, and not the others, or marry NONE of them under the laws of the land. Not one Polygynist that I know of has been successfully prosecuted for their unregistered relationships in recent history. Ever since the courts struck down laws regarding "co-habitation".Hugh
     
  12. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    a nd really not wishing that on you but , if you should not all ur children will be recongnized and recieve benefits from SS .. neither will your wives. you are living just as the many millions of people who do not regard marraige as sacred and who cohabit or lets use the old fashioned term live in sin... and what doesn this do to your childen? I have see the reports how the live in fear of their peers finding out.....I also notice not one recognition of the rights of women to divorce in any of your posts...I am to assume by what you say they should take a beating or a husband who brings unclean things like porn into a home, who doesnt allow the children to be raised in the Word.. and why did you say it was okay for men to have multple wives butnot women to have mutiple husbands?
     
  13. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    (betchevy;10734)
    "and really not wishing that on you but , if you should not all ur children will be recongnized and recieve benefits from SS .."
    Ah, the wedding of Christianity and the Welfare State. Sorry, I am the most right wing of political conservatives you could possibly meet. I don't believe there should be a social security system.(betchevy;10734)
    "neither will your wives."
    Same as above.(betchevy;10734)
    "you are living just as the many millions of people who do not regard marraige as sacred and who cohabit or lets use the old fashioned term live in sin..."
    When you can show me a Biblical mandate or example of a wedding presided over by Priest or Potentate or in a government office or Church/Temple/Synagogue, perhaps I will regard whatever "unofficial" relationship I have, as "living in sin".(betchevy;10734)
    "and what doesn this do to your childen?"
    Per 1st Corinthians 7, my belief makes them Holy.(betchevy;10734)
    "I have see(n) the reports how the live in fear of their peers finding out....."
    Don't worry, they're hardly afraid.(betchevy;10734)
    "I also notice not one recognition of the rights of women to divorce in any of your posts..."
    When you can find me a passage giving women the right to divorce, we can discuss their rights in such an action.(betchevy;10734)
    "I am to assume by what you say they should take a beating or a husband who brings unclean things like porn into a home, who doesnt allow the children to be raised in the Word.."
    There are no monogamous men who beat wives, refuse to teach the word and partake in porn?(betchevy;10734)
    "and why did you say it was okay for men to have multple wives butnot women to have mutiple husbands?"
    Scripture says a woman's husband is her master, no one can serve two.Hugh McBryde
     
  14. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    I Timothy 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."Ephesians 5:3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;"Ephesians 5:5 "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."Ephesians 5:6 "Let no man deceive you with vain words; for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."Ephesians 5:7 "Be not ye therefore partakers with them."Ephesians 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."Ephesians 5:24 "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.""In everything" in the Greek text means a full commitment. For two people [Christians] to be called mates, they must be fully committed. The difference in functional responsibilities between the husband and wife, does not apply and inequality of spiritual status. The Spiritual status of the woman in the end times will be of equal importance to the man, and this is because the circumcision of this age of grace is of the heart [Romans 3:30-31]. Man and Woman, Jew and Gentile; we are part of the bride of Christ through our justification [circumcision] by faith in Jesus Christ. Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:"In the verses above, Paul said it was he that gave you the advice concerning the unmarried man or woman, but now Paul is speaking what the Lord has said about those that do marry. I Corinthians 7:11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." And hould the husband seek a divorce then we are free to marry again...WE DO NOT HAVE TO REMAIN UNDER CONTROL OF EVIL MEN
     
  15. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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  16. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    I was quoting scripture and not calling you or your wives anything... if you are convicted oh well....Esther was not ill treated by her husband that I see... If he had beat her or missused her, then not she had no recourse, but she lived in the previous times when when had no rights..even in a time before the scripture was written..... I was only showing you where the word states a woman can leave her husband and the reason are given in the above verses.... You really don't understand what you read very well do you Hugh? I am not attacking you personally.....but you do think its all about Hugh... I lived with and egomaniacal Father like you......Perhaps that is why I have blissfully remained unmarried and have GOD as the head of my home. I have nothing more to say on this subject....and you have nothing to learn thats obvious...
     
  17. Lionroot

    Lionroot New Member

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    (betchevy;10769)
    I was quoting scripture and not calling you or your wives anything
    I'm not sure how else he was supposed to take it. After all you wrote:(betchevy;10734)
    you (referring to hugh) are living just as the many millions of people who do not regard marraige as sacred and who cohabit or lets use the old fashioned term live in sin
    So when you write:
    Ephesians 5:3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;"Ephesians 5:5 "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
    Are you telling us that you weren't making reference to Hugh when you quoted these? Certainly since you think he is "living in sin" you feel these versus apply to him. Do you not? One thing is clear niether of these verses justify divorce. So exactly how did you intend Hugh to take them?Please explain.God Bless,Robert
     
  18. betchevy

    betchevy New Member

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    "When you can find me a passage giving women the right to divorce, we can discuss their rights in such an action." quote from the previous blog of HughI was answering Hugh's question about the scripture and what a woman has a right to do and why... are you calling me a liar? I really am through with this discussion and who are you anyway HUGH's attorney? If you want to comment please read the entire thread before you make assumptions and call people liars.I did not say women were given rights to divorce, but they can leave as stated in the Word...
     
  19. Hugh McBryde

    Hugh McBryde Member

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    I'm still interested in the passage that gives a woman a right to divorce, I have seen no such passage in my many readings of scripture.
     
  20. Lionroot

    Lionroot New Member

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    (betchevy;10797)
    I was answering Hugh's question about the scripture and what a woman has a right to do and why... are you calling me a liar?
    No, but to quote you..."if you are convicted oh well". I was just asking for an explanation, so I could understand your pleas of innocence.So you do or do not think Hugh and his alleged wives are whoremongers? Yes or No!?!The defense rests.
     
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